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Agreed with both of you. Both that I WANT IT NOW!!! and that this show's climb in quality from those first episodes to the Winter Soldier tie-in and season 1 end, to season 2 with the awesome HYDRA, Second SHIELD, and Inhuman storylines, then season 3's Hive stuff, now each of these arcs? It's just fascinating and amazing to behold. If this show doesn't get a season 5, I'll be so upset.
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Apr 12, 2017 13:11
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Apparently the student, Amy, is Clark Gregg's actual daughter. Strange that she had those couple of lines and then didn't appear at all for the rest of the episode. I wonder if they cut the rest of her scenes out?
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Apr 12, 2017 14:48
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Cran posted:I love this show so loving much. Jemma owns. Nazi Fits owns. Madam Hydra owns. Face Ward owns. Totally Not Captain America Mace owns. Blatant real-world thumb-biting owns. I would venture to say Nazi Murder Fitz does, in fact, not own. 
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Apr 12, 2017 15:04
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I liked the subtle little callback to the fact that Coulson designed Captain America's uniform in The Avengers. "I made a few sketches, but nothing as cool as this!"
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Apr 12, 2017 15:11
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Just re-watched the clip on ABC's YouTube of Fitz killing Aida's real world counterpart and I'm really liking that the "REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE" pretty much fails every time. I'm even thinking Coulson was already having doubts, probably due to already having his mind hosed wit, and not because he has a particular strong connection to Daisy.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:25
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notthegoatseguy posted:Just re-watched the clip on ABC's YouTube of Fitz killing Aida's real world counterpart and I'm really liking that the "REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE" pretty much fails every time. I'm even thinking Coulson was already having doubts, probably due to already having his mind hosed wit, and not because he has a particular strong connection to Daisy.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:03
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GLOSS posted:Oh hey look, Mack's virtual daughter is Moon Girl... Oh man, having Devil Dinosaur show up at some point would be insane.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:04
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notthegoatseguy posted:Just re-watched the clip on ABC's YouTube of Fitz killing Aida's real world counterpart and I'm really liking that the "REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE" pretty much fails every time. I'm even thinking Coulson was already having doubts, probably due to already having his mind hosed wit, and not because he has a particular strong connection to Daisy. Nah. Coulson called Hydra on Simmons, they gave him some information, a folder full of stuff, and forced/asked him to follow her, and either inform on her and friends, or carry around a tracking device. He's a true believer by nature, the same way Fitz is loyal to his family, Ward is loyal to his Person, and May is a loyal soldier. The only thing he's said about the real world was Daisy's name, which Hydra knows. Everything else has been him Magoo'ing around, and Simmons projecting Original Flavor Coulson onto him. The soap thing... could be anything really. Coulson hasn't been teaching Fascism 101, giving students to Hydra, and also been a fan of the Patriot. It's an act.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:10
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OB_Juan posted:Nah. Coulson called Hydra on Simmons, they gave him some information, a folder full of stuff, and forced/asked him to follow her, and either inform on her and friends, or carry around a tracking device. He's a true believer by nature, the same way Fitz is loyal to his family, Ward is loyal to his Person, and May is a loyal soldier. Except that they established that Coulson is a conspiracy theorist with recollections that he can't reconcile before the point at which he would have become an agent of Hydra. You could tell he was uncomfortable when they took his student as well, but too afraid to say anything. He also shot a pair of Hydra lackeys and didn't say anything as Ward was about to shoot Fitz. The lackeys were no big, but a double agent would have supported Simmons to protect a key asset.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:59
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Oh man, Fitz shooting Agnes was so depressing. So was Mack selling out Daisy. I had a feeling that he seemed to remember too much too easily. I'm not always a fan of mirror universe/Elseworld/What If? stuff but this has been fantastic so far.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:43
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I wonder how much control Madame Haidra has over the mainframe. I don't think she's playing her role while also having all information about that world. It feels a bit like she made a local independent copy of herself which is freed of her prime directives. Why else would she research that other side? If she is multithreading while also being in the regular world, she wouldn't need to collect intel from there. Or maybe she decided that she really shares Hydras ideals, so she wants to open a portal to bring some of her buddies to good old earth Earth-199999.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:25
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kayakyakr posted:Except that they established that Coulson is a conspiracy theorist with recollections that he can't reconcile before the point at which he would have become an agent of Hydra. You could tell he was uncomfortable when they took his student as well, but too afraid to say anything. These are good points, but I've become paranoid.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:28
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OB_Juan posted:These are good points, but I've become paranoid. It's okay, just be careful with the soap.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:43
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I actually feel like Project Looking Glass is about bringing people from the Framework into LMD bodies on the outside. Not real people, but rather the virtual ones. That way Aida could take over the world with a ready-made Hydra army.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:45
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So last week I was hoping Mac would end the season as an LMD... Now I'm pretty sure I want Hope to be the LMD. Otherwise this season is going to end up being a major downer.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:38
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Dracorion posted:I actually feel like Project Looking Glass is about bringing people from the Framework into LMD bodies on the outside. Not real people, but rather the virtual ones. well, that AND get Fitz & the Cavalry back to their real bodies using LMDs as a convenient handwave, use them against the real world.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:40
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cant cook creole bream posted:I wonder how much control Madame Haidra has over the mainframe. I don't think she's playing her role while also having all information about that world. It feels a bit like she made a local independent copy of herself which is freed of her prime directives. Still has her directives. She handed the gun to Fitz to let him kill Radcliffe or Agnes. She wouldn't have been able to pull the trigger herself.
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Apr 13, 2017 00:59
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Iain de Caestecker must have been loving psyched when he got the scripts for this part of the season. He's really delivering.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:22
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Did anyone catch the scene in the quin jet with Coulson staring at the sniper rifle as it was pointed directly at Ward's back? I thought that was either a good callback or a strong bit of foreshadowing.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:23
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kayakyakr posted:Also, how did May know Daisy's real name and why was it necessary for her to incriminate herself if it came from Aidra? They're in an autocratic state. If they already know the answer, why even ask? May has broken the conditioning, because she always breaks the conditioning. May totally remembers the real world, but until now, she's been trapped and alone. She's had to work "undercover" as a Hydra operative just to survive. She's had suspicions of Daisy from the moment Daisy transitioned over. She already knew where everyone else was, but had no idea if they were "real" or constructs. She set things up and arrested Mack just so she could trap Daisy into confirming her suspicion. Next week is going to be May rescuing Daisy from the vivisection table and then they all meet up with Mace and come up with a plan to break out of The Framework.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:28
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Longbaugh01 posted:Iain de Caestecker must have been loving psyched when he got the scripts for this part of the season. He's really delivering.  In a show full of amazing things, Evil Fitz might just be the best of them all. Iain is killing it. With the way they're setting it up, Fitz is definitely the last one they get back and the most cathartic rescue of them all. He's gonna be real hosed up at what his Framework self did though.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:32
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flosofl posted:May has broken the conditioning, because she always breaks the conditioning. I suspect something like this is happening.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:41
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You know, once they're out of the framework, things are going to be really awkward around the office for awhile.
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Apr 13, 2017 02:42
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Amazing how Radcliffe at once pours his heart out about how much he knows he hosed up, yet still starts the conversation with "you have no idea what I've been through!" What a hilarious piece of poo poo. Also "If I weren't dead already, I'd be impressed"
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Apr 13, 2017 03:27
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The best thing about Evil Fitz is that he is still recognizably Fitz. Opheliaida took the best parts of Fitz-- his intelligence, his loyalty, his capacity for love and complete undying devotion-- and twisted them so that they were all centered around her. Add a little Fitz Sr. to the mix and the result is apparently one scary, evil motherfucker.
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Apr 13, 2017 03:42
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Episode 17: Identity and Change http://i.imgur.com/2rMP3Mn.gifv http://i.imgur.com/b74Gd72.gifv http://i.imgur.com/efDpzE4.gifv http://i.imgur.com/P7yahHe.gifv http://i.imgur.com/vDtpHmY.gifv
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Apr 13, 2017 04:12
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flosofl posted:May has broken the conditioning, because she always breaks the conditioning. This could make sense. But mainly it also brought up an issue that I did not pay much attention too. Skye and Simmons were both in the framework world and probably part of a scripted narrative that Aida created (perhaps after it was confirmed that they could not capture them and put them in the framework like Coulson et al), before the real ones hacked into and took their place -- I don't know why I missed this or chose to ignore it, because the show does not hide it. They were also both seemingly going to be eliminated according to that "narrative" (Simmons as a SHIELD agent was already shot and buried, and Skye as a "potential" inhuman would probably follow.
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Apr 13, 2017 06:26
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flosofl posted:May has broken the conditioning, because she always breaks the conditioning. I would like this a whole lot because if May starts breaking faces after everything the team's been through I am gonna come out of my seat hootin and hollerin at the tv
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Apr 13, 2017 06:59
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Yeah, everyone's been working with the assumption that Aida is fulfilling everyone's regret but I've never really accepted that because (a) Aida has no way of knowing their regrets, she just found out May's thing from Radcliffe and (b) that seems very complicated and Aida doesn't seem nearly that devoted to helping people, she just wanted to make May complicit and she's shown that getting them in the Framework is her sole meaningful "command". Aida's phrasing on the "its not my fault how it all played out" implied that "their greatest regret" is the kid's death and the whole thing is based off that. That makes more sense to me since Aida isn't really interested in going much deeper. She can answer the obvious poo poo like Mack's daughter but she doesn't really care that Daisy ending up with Ward and still the orphan "Skye" hunting down inhumans is basically her living hell. There's going to be a lot of trauma and drama getting out of this Framework. Fitz is going to have a poo poo load of guilt and Mack is going to have an impossible choice between reality or his daughter. Since everyone wants a LMD out of this I'm pulling for LMD Moon Girl, but I'm expecting tragedy for Mack one way or another. And Fitz and Simmons will never be the same. And we have no idea how the Framework memories and personalities will meld with the real world ones. I'm glad Jemma's still resisting Good Guy Ward. Don't soften just because of this Fitz thing, Jemma. He's a snake!
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Apr 13, 2017 07:04
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May must be woke, because how else would she know to bring Mack in to trick Daisy? Him not being on Hydra's radar in any way was mentioned several times in the episode. So I think that's a pretty big hint. May's been in it the longest. Her biggest regret (not saving the girl) turned into what might be an even bigger regret (saving the girl who caused the incident that let Hydra rise to power, and ultimately failing to save the girl since she just died a bit later).Nill posted:Not sure I'm going to buy a handwaved "they were brainwashed" excuse for Fitz's willfully evil actions at the end of this arc. Either he's coming out a broken man that's written out of the show or.... That "Fitz" is actually Aida's own AI creation inside the framework. I mean, she can leave at any time, why would she have him working on "Crossing Over" to the other world unless HE was the one stuck there? Fitz is Fitz, it's just that he uses way more soap than he actually needs when he washes because he likes to feel all lathery. It's not his fault. I thought it was really cool that Aida acknowledges the real world but spins it as an alternate reality out to destroy them. I assumed she was just gonna pretend the other world doesn't exist but this is a lot more fun.
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Apr 13, 2017 07:07
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I'm totally game for the "May's woke" theory and it seems possible, but she could have just gotten the Mack/Daisy stuff from Madame hAIDrA. And YoYo wasn't part of Aida's planning which might be why its where Mack went all "huh?" Aida's the one who put them in there so would be the more obvious person to scoop up Daisy, Caulson, and Mack when Jemma showed up. But the "May's woke" theory is way more fun.
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Apr 13, 2017 07:13
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Wouldn't it be more likely and require less mental gymnastics if this is what actually happened? 1. Skye's real name in the Framework is literally Daisy Johnson. Everybody just calls her Skye as an informal nickname. 2. Skye has been acting suspicious. It's obvious to her boyfriend, and May isn't stupid and notices her random outbursts of caring for others and questioning orders, both things Skye probably didn't do in the Framework. 3. There is a hydra mole. 4. They targeted Mack because his daughter could be a potential inhuman. We've already seen they'll murder kids so it's not far fetched. 5. Skye acted even more weird on the mission. 6. May sets up a deal with Mack: Tell the next agent you know her and see what she fesses up because Skye is being very suspicious. 7. Skye's name is literally Daisy Johnson in her files. It's not a mystery.
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Apr 13, 2017 10:17
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Occam's May
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Apr 13, 2017 10:20
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Boris Galerkin posted:7. Skye's name is literally Daisy Johnson in her files. It's not a mystery. It should be Mary Sue Poots. 
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Apr 13, 2017 12:08
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Then why wouldn't Ward know her name is Daisy?
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Apr 13, 2017 12:29
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Boris Galerkin posted:4. They targeted Mack because his daughter could be a potential inhuman. We've already seen they'll murder kids so it's not far fetched. My assumption was they had a GPS tracker in the drone his daughter grabbed.
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Apr 13, 2017 13:10
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CornHolio posted:You know, once they're out of the framework, things are going to be really awkward around the office for awhile. Yeah, because they're extremely poo poo at the 'accepting that things aren't real' part of this mission. I bet one of them's gonna hold a grudge against someone for actions in the Framework after they get out. AbstractNapper posted:This could make sense. But mainly it also brought up an issue that I did not pay much attention too. Skye and Simmons were both in the framework world and probably part of a scripted narrative that Aida created (perhaps after it was confirmed that they could not capture them and put them in the framework like Coulson et al), before the real ones hacked into and took their place -- I don't know why I missed this or chose to ignore it, because the show does not hide it. They were also both seemingly going to be eliminated according to that "narrative" (Simmons as a SHIELD agent was already shot and buried, and Skye as a "potential" inhuman would probably follow. Skye was fine for the most part because Ward was keeping an eye on her. That's the entire reason he's not a loyal HYDRA agent here. They'd (probably) kill her if they found out. STAC Goat posted:Yeah, everyone's been working with the assumption that Aida is fulfilling everyone's regret but I've never really accepted that because (a) Aida has no way of knowing their regrets, she just found out May's thing from Radcliffe and (b) that seems very complicated and Aida doesn't seem nearly that devoted to helping people, she just wanted to make May complicit and she's shown that getting them in the Framework is her sole meaningful "command". That was Radcliffe's original rationalization and since AIDA has no imagination she's just continuing that work. How things got flipped turned upside down like this though is beyond me. Metropolis posted:May must be woke, because how else would she know to bring Mack in to trick Daisy? Him not being on Hydra's radar in any way was mentioned several times in the episode. So I think that's a pretty big hint. May's been in it the longest. Her biggest regret (not saving the girl) turned into what might be an even bigger regret (saving the girl who caused the incident that let Hydra rise to power, and ultimately failing to save the girl since she just died a bit later). They came after Mack for that drone Hope foolishly decided to customize and disassemble into a hoverdrone of her own. She doesn't know who any of these people are, she's just using them because they're there and Skye's being so bizarrely friendly with them so they must be useful if utilized properly. Plus it makes sure that they toe the line in the future as well.
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Apr 13, 2017 13:26
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PunkBoy posted:Episode 17: Identity and Change Jesus Aida looks terrifying. 
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Apr 13, 2017 13:48
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FAILING AGENTS OF SHIELD #1 IN TIME SLOT WITH MOST MAJOR DEMOGRAPHIC https://twitter.com/ABC_Publicity/status/852206814263431168?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet SAD! (serious aside, what a loving fantastic episode for the show to get a ratings peak at.)
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Apr 13, 2017 14:04
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What is it with Marvel and awesome fights in
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