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Lightning Lord posted:Aside from Fate (since I'm already considering it) what would be another good system for running Planescape? Keep in mind that I don't want to just do adventures in Sigil, I want to explore the rest of the planes and possibly even make some trips to the Prime. paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 13:10
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Lightning Lord posted:Aside from Fate (since I'm already considering it) what would be another good system for running Planescape? Keep in mind that I don't want to just do adventures in Sigil, I want to explore the rest of the planes and possibly even make some trips to the Prime. I enjoy Strike! a whole lot for this. Since the skills and combat abilities of players are freeform, they can sort of have whatever origin they want. Complications handle all of your weird alignment and out-of-plane deity stuff without making them archaic or punishing (since players choose when to invoke complications.) There are enough variant rules an options you can make each plane feel a little different (use the 2d6 variant on Mechanus, cover variant rules on Acheron, etc.,) Also Strike!'s approach to magic items and loot is just way easier to handle than 2e ever dreamed of. EDIT: Is there a good system for handling a variety of combat types while keeping them varied and interesting? I'm aware of several wrestling systems, but I was hoping for a setting agnostic system or at least an easier setting to pitch. Moriatti fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 15:52
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Lightning Lord posted:Aside from Fate (since I'm already considering it) what would be another good system for running Planescape? Keep in mind that I don't want to just do adventures in Sigil, I want to explore the rest of the planes and possibly even make some trips to the Prime. I once ran a Planescape campaign with Burning Wheel that was moderately successful. The reason I feel it fits well is that it's a conceit of the Planescape setting that belief can change the nature of reality (something that never really had any rules support in its original incarnation), and Burning Wheel is a game that's all about fighting for beliefs. Each of the outer planes had its own thematic belief that related to its nature, e.g. Pandemonium was "Life is meaningless and despair is the only answer." Anyone on a plane gets access to the plane's belief and can earn artha for acting on it (whether supporting it or fighting against it). Evolving beliefs allowed a player to add traits to the plane in question, slowly changing the nature of that plane, etc.
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Apr 13, 2017 17:25
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That's neat. I've never bothered with Burning Wheel simply because the author's pretentious wizard style of social media interaction turns me off.
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Apr 13, 2017 17:43
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Burning Wheel is good but for most D&D poisoned groups the better intro to that system is Torchbearer, which is is sort of exactly halfway between Nethack and OD&D
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Apr 13, 2017 19:24
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Falstaff posted:I once ran a Planescape campaign with Burning Wheel that was moderately successful. The reason I feel it fits well is that it's a conceit of the Planescape setting that belief can change the nature of reality (something that never really had any rules support in its original incarnation), and Burning Wheel is a game that's all about fighting for beliefs. Falstaff knows what's up, and this is a really clever way of doing Planescape BW. Tying your game's themes into the artha cycle is always the way to go, and doing it so directly has a lot of potential. I will shamelessly steal this if I ever get to run Burning Planescape.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:02
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Here's the perfect system for running Planescape: 2e AD&D.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:02
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Arivia posted:Here's the perfect system for running Planescape: 2e AD&D. 2E AD&D isn't even an adequate system for running 2E AD&D.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:03
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:2E AD&D isn't even an adequate system for running 2E AD&D. QFT I've run so many games of AD&D I sometimes see charts when I close my eyes and I still wouldn't go back to it if somebody said "Hey let's play D&D".
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Apr 13, 2017 20:33
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Burning Wheel is basically perfect for Planescape except that you'd need an infinite number of lifepaths and a couple of dozen emotional attributes and you wouldn't be able to get a PDF. (Seriously, emotional attributes are perfect for how faction abilities work, right down to the point where maxing them out causes you to explode.)
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Apr 13, 2017 20:35
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As someone who has run and played Burning Wheel, it sounds like it will be good for "X", but, well, let's just say you need to loving invest in it to make it work. Like, it is dense and, yes, you do need a general idea of how ALL the skills work. No really. Like, even if you avoid most of the extended stuff like Combat, Debates, etc. as the game suggests, it is still impressively complex. As a guy who got in with a fairly like hack of d20 and then moved right into PbtA, Cortex, and other lighter story games, it is tough to absorb. Like, it is actually a really cool game, but you need the right group, the right GM, and a lot of patience and willingness to memorize bullshit. As a guy studying for the CPA, I got enough huge textbooks full of rules written by people with little sense and a disconnect with the real world to memorize as is.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:41
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Covok posted:As a guy who got in with a fairly like hack of d20 and then moved right into PbtA, Cortex, and other lighter story games, it is tough to absorb. Now this is also a good suggestion.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:53
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Good suggestions everyone. I've been eyeing some unholy cobbled together version of Runequest/Stormbringer/Pendragon/BRP as well. Also, Heroquest 2.0 I want to keep the alignments as a setting element. I know everyone hates them and all but I think they're an essential part of the cosmology of Planescape. Their problem is when they're used as some sort of hard morality code that all characters have and must adhere to, which basically nobody does, it's just an expectation that hangs over head. They're good as cosmic allegiances though. Stormbringer's Allegiance mechanic would be useful, as would Pendragon's Passions system. Arivia posted:Here's the perfect system for running Planescape: 2e AD&D. Friend Arivia, you know I love the works of the old masters, but search deep in your heart, you know this is not true. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 20:55
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There's nothing wrong with Alignments... as they're presented and expected to be used in Planescape. The problem with Alignments is they just don't fit in a lot of games and GMs and players didn't realize this.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:03
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Alignment works only when you accept the existence of cosmic forces at war with the hope of converting as many souls to their side to aid in the final battle. It'd work well in a Jeduo-Christian inspired fantasy world.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:07
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Alignment works in Planescape because Planescape is "let's build a universe around using all the weird aspects D&D has accumulated as cosmic law." This is the main problem with exporting it to a different system.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:10
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D&D has a lot of Christian thematics and Gygax was a Christian himself. Makes you wonder why there was a satanic panic in first place.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:14
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Rand Brittain posted:Burning Wheel is basically perfect for Planescape except that you'd need an infinite number of lifepaths and a couple of dozen emotional attributes and you wouldn't be able to get a PDF. An alternative that others have used for Burning Planescape is to custom-build each character using the Monster Burner, which can actually be faster than normal character burning if you're familiar with the system and comfortable adjudicating it. Making custom emotional attributes would be more time-consuming, but agreed, they would be perfect.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:14
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Plutonis posted:D&D has a lot of Christian thematics and Gygax was a Christian himself. Makes you wonder why there was a satanic panic in first place. What if someone went further? What if we made a fantasy world which only takes inspiration from the bible? No European fantasy, only what's written in the bible.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:16
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Alignment as descriptors of cosmic allegiances work fine, if you posit a world where Good, (not necessarily Nice) Evil, (not necessarily Puppy Kicking) Law and Chaos are all active existing forces. I think instead of just "I'm Lawful Neutral" something like a points system works better to demonstrate where a character's priorities lie and how much they've been affected by those forces. That also eliminates the "I'm Chaotic Neutral, time to act like a moron" or "I'm Lawful Good, I go berserk if another character is wearing a skull shirt" problem.Covok posted:Alignment works only when you accept the existence of cosmic forces at war with the hope of converting as many souls to their side to aid in the final battle. Well gee, Planescape heavily features two factions of demons and devils at eternal war with each other over the nature of evil, a third demonic faction that profits and secretly manipulates it and a bunch of celestial factions that are interested in both perpetuating that war to keep the fiends distracted and the consequences of it from spilling out to the rest of creation so I think it might qualify. Plutonis posted:D&D has a lot of Christian thematics and Gygax was a Christian himself. Makes you wonder why there was a satanic panic in first place. Because facts don't matter to fundamentalists. Look at Supply Side Jesus. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 21:17
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Plutonis posted:D&D has a lot of Christian thematics and Gygax was a Christian himself. Makes you wonder why there was a satanic panic in first place. There's good money in scaring the poo poo out of American Christian conservatives with the dumbest, most hackneyed poo poo you can think of.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:17
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Impermanent posted:between Nethack and OD&D
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Apr 13, 2017 21:18
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Lightning Lord posted:Well gee, Planescape heavily features two factions of demons and devils at eternal war with each other over the nature of evil, a third demonic faction that profits and secretly manipulates it and a bunch of celestial factions that are interested in both perpetuating that war to keep the fiends distracted and the consequences of it from spilling out to the rest of creation so I think it might qualify. I was responding to the person who said that alignment doesn't work well in most games because people don't consider its limits, not that planescape doesn't do alignment well.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:19
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Covok posted:What if someone went further? What if we made a fantasy world which only takes inspiration from the bible? No European fantasy, only what's written in the bible. It's been done a few times before with varying degrees of sanity. If you really wanted to do it though the cycle of play would be quite different than your standard dungeon crawler. Your typical old testament adventure involved a very active God, liberal use of angels, etc. edit: One other fun thing is that if you go by just the old testament/torah, there's no Devil. There's Satan, but he's more of a God's jackass buddy sort of character than an active force of evil. In fact his name merely translates to 'the accuser', and he basically just exists to play the other side of the argument when tricky theological questions come up (like why do bad things happen to good people). Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 21:20
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Covok posted:I was responding to the person who said that alignment doesn't work well in most games because people don't consider its limits, not that planescape doesn't do alignment well. Ah ok, makes sense. Halloween Jack posted:What does that even mean? Think that means "You die a lot, but in a fun way"
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Apr 13, 2017 21:20
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Kwyndig posted:It's been done a few times before with varying degrees of sanity. If you really wanted to do it though the cycle of play would be quite different than your standard dungeon crawler. Your typical old testament adventure involved a very active God, liberal use of angels, etc. Depends, new testament or old testament? New testament would be a lot more walking, talking, being almost killed by X faction, and then being saved by God.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:22
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I watched Silence recently and a game where you are supposed to proselytize to people, avoid violence and be horribly martyred by the pagans would be cool as hell.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:30
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Hell that's gonna be a game contest if I start one. Make a Religious Game that correctly follows the faith's tenets and teachings and doesn't suck.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:34
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Plutonis posted:Hell that's gonna be a game contest if I start one. Make a Religious Game that correctly follows the faith's tenets and teachings and doesn't suck. Do it. Make nice rewards.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:34
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Covok posted:Depends, new testament or old testament? New testament would be extremely storygamey. You'd go on pilgrimages and do good works, get tested and persecuted, and if you stand strong in your faith you'd be rewarded in the Kingdom of Heaven (usually because you'd be dead). Characters would be humble but capable of great miracles. Old testament would actually have more freewheeling adventure in it, since the BCE era Judaism believed in monsters, there were lots of wars, and solving your problems with violence was not only allowed, it was encouraged. Characters would be brash, even boastful, and while they'd rarely wield divine power they'd frequently have supernatural attributes like great strength or wisdom.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:40
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Plutonis posted:Hell that's gonna be a game contest if I start one. Make a Religious Game that correctly follows the faith's tenets and teachings and doesn't suck. What if the religion I chose to gamify was Pastafarianism? 
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Apr 13, 2017 21:41
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Lightning Lord posted:What if the religion I chose to gamify was Pastafarianism? Then you'd have to spend a lot of time describing how to dress like a pirate.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:42
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It'd be like Dogs in the Vineyard. It'd be the only game where dying would be a win condition as it saves you from the suffering of the Earth through martyrdom to the kingdom of heaven and a seat next to God.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:46
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Covok posted:It'd be like Dogs in the Vineyard. It'd be the only game where dying would be a win condition as it saves you from the suffering of the Earth through martyrdom to the kingdom of heaven and a seat next to God. Would resisting renouncing the faith whilst being flayed alive or burned by the Roman authorities be a constitution or willpower based roll?
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Apr 13, 2017 21:50
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Plutonis posted:Would resisting renouncing the faith whilst being flayed alive or burned by the Roman authorities be a constitution or willpower based roll? Defentifly willpower as one would do so by holding on to the strength of their faith, but lets not limit ourselves to such a narrow view on how to design it.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:51
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Plutonis posted:Would resisting renouncing the faith whilst being flayed alive or burned by the Roman authorities be a constitution or willpower based roll? Neither, you'd spend Faith tokens you built up over the game to resist torture. If you didn't get enough tokens you'd renounce Jesus and burn eternally in the Lake of Fire.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:52
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Dogs in the Vineyard is a Good Game and more games should use its style of conflict escalation. It's the one thing Unknown Armies sorely needs, but lacks.
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Apr 13, 2017 22:00
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Impermanent posted:Dogs in the Vineyard is a Good Game and more games should use its style of conflict escalation. It's the one thing Unknown Armies sorely needs, but lacks. Hey, now we have a... gridiron? That's, uh, sort of like a conflict escalation system
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Apr 13, 2017 22:02
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Impermanent posted:Dogs in the Vineyard is a Good Game and more games should use its style of conflict escalation. It's the one thing Unknown Armies sorely needs, but lacks. Yeah, it's conflict system is pretty superb for rules-light play. It's my go-to now.
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Apr 13, 2017 22:26
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gnome7 posted:Goblin Quest is literally KamB but better, so go play that instead. PLus, its writer went on to be involved in a little project known as.... uh... Paranoia
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Apr 13, 2017 22:38
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