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Yeah, I mean I'm not saying it will or won't play out one way or another. It would be entirely within the realm of comics and SHIELD and basic narrative and reality for the government agency to decide "yeah, so we just went through a year of hell caused by scientists trying to use the Darkholde for unrestrained scientific discovery but we're going to do it some more because now we'll have better rules and restraints." But speaking to our direct characters, especially Fitz, it would be them effectively following their mistakes with the same mistakes. So my guess is that Fitz' narrative in particular is directly that they can't keep ignoring the risks of this kind of scientific pursuit after all the pain they've gone through, but I could also see Talbot or someone keeping the research going. Or maybe some real wildcard like Aida escaping and becoming Madame Hydra in our reality for a new Hydra formed in the image of her Framework, and like keeping the Framework and somehow managing to use it to build Hydra up. Somehow. I don't know. I'm really trying to not think too hard about this "looking glass" thing since it makes my head hurt.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:20
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The real wildcard is the Darkhold. This doesn't have to be a virtual reality at all (as some people have already pointed out in this thread). It could be 'just' an alternate dimension that AIDA tapped into with magic. That doesn't excite me in the same way as what's already going on, but it would tie the first arc of the season back into the show and would let the show split the difference between keeping their toys and learning valuable lessons re: Things Mankind Is Not Meant To Know.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:36
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Yakmouth posted:From a pure storytelling aspect, keeping the Framework running opens more possibilities than shutting it down. From a 'realistic' point of view, I'm trying to imagine any organization saying "Yep, we've invented both AI and perfect VR... but it was all kind of poo poo so we scrapped them." Like, either of those technologies would be real-world game changers, and both are being actively pursued. "Yes you see, we have perfect VR. You just...directly interface your brain with a machine powered by evil mag---hey where are you going?"
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Apr 14, 2017 22:37
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PierreTheMime posted:"Yes you see, we have perfect VR. You just...directly interface your brain with a machine powered by evil mag---hey where are you going?" This made me laugh harder than it had any business to.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:39
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STAC Goat posted:Or maybe some real wildcard like Aida escaping and becoming Madame Hydra in our reality for a new Hydra formed in the image of her Framework, and like keeping the Framework and somehow managing to use it to build Hydra up. Somehow. I don't know. I just had a crazy idea; when Hydra goes from the Framework to the "real" world, they turn out like the ghosts in the first third of the season (or maybe hard-light holograms). When I think about it, I've seen (in other media) Nazi vampires, Nazi werewolves, Nazi zombies, Nazi aliens, but not Nazi ghosts.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:45
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Mraagvpeine posted:I just had a crazy idea; when Hydra goes from the Framework to the "real" world, they turn out like the ghosts in the first third of the season (or maybe hard-light holograms). When I think about it, I've seen (in other media) Nazi vampires, Nazi werewolves, Nazi zombies, Nazi aliens, but not Nazi ghosts. The ghost of Hitler has always been with us my friend.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:53
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STAC Goat posted:Or maybe some real wildcard like Aida escaping and becoming Madame Hydra in our reality for a new Hydra formed in the image of her Framework, and like keeping the Framework and somehow managing to use it to build Hydra up. Somehow. I don't know. Build robot bodies. Export (or better, copy) Hydra NPCs to the robot bodies. Literally building a loyal Hydra army. Upload aida_2_03.exe into Google or whatever. Go full Skyenet.
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Apr 15, 2017 00:29
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OB_Juan posted:Build robot bodies. Export (or better, copy) Hydra NPCs to the robot bodies. Literally building a loyal Hydra army. Upload aida_2_03.exe into Google or whatever. Go full Skyenet. Magic is involved. Full Deus.
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Apr 15, 2017 00:42
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OB_Juan posted:Build robot bodies. Export (or better, copy) Hydra NPCs to the robot bodies. Literally building a loyal Hydra army. Upload aida_2_03.exe into Google or whatever. Go full Skyenet. Yeah, that would be my best guess at a "realistic" scenario for Looking Glass. Aida and the Superior are building an army of LMDs to transplant the Hydra people into so they can track down the Inhumans like Superior wants and Madame Hydra is doing in the framework. Maybe Aida tries to upload them into the framework first to fulfill her orders or maybe she's just gone full Nazi and decided Inhumans don't technically count to her directive and are a threat to the humans. Ultron sure for copyright infringement.
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Apr 15, 2017 01:08
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The shift into the VR world is a bit sudden, although they are doing a decent job in 'making it real' with the focus on Macks daughter and Fitz killing whats-her-name. As long as they keep it fun I'm willing to not think to hard about it. I predict that the project is not about invading (real) Earth, but rather about finding a way to sever the connection to/from the Hydra world entirely and have it exist on its own. I don't think AIDA is all that interested in going back.
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Apr 15, 2017 02:21
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah honestly I'm not liking this AI arc and it makes me worried about future seasons because of the implications. Pretty sure the out from this is, "You had a technospell cast on you by a magicbot using a grimoire of pure evil, I think you get a pass on mens rea." Fitz will be upset with himself for a while because that's the kind of guy he is, but Jemma will help him get through it. 
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Apr 15, 2017 06:32
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Chokes McGee posted:Pretty sure the out from this is, "You had a technospell cast on you by a magicbot using a grimoire of pure evil, I think you get a pass on mens rea." Nah, they're done. Like Fitz said last season, they're cursed. I think Jemma won't be able to get past the fact he straight up murdered someone. She was absolutely sure that at his core he was not someone who could ever do that. She was wrong. Now she's going to question if she really knew him at all.
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Apr 15, 2017 07:27
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flosofl posted:Nah, they're done. Like Fitz said last season, they're cursed. Aida/Fitz and Skye/Ward are mirrors of the same story, a man can be redeemed by the love of a good woman. Edit: no idea where the arc is going, but right now it's a bit on the nose. Woden fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 09:46
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Fitz has shown signs of no remorse murder before. Like when he shot Dr. Radcliff in the face to see if he was a robot.
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Apr 15, 2017 14:53
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Piriwi posted:The shift into the VR world is a bit sudden, although they are doing a decent job in 'making it real' with the focus on Macks daughter and Fitz killing whats-her-name. As long as they keep it fun I'm willing to not think to hard about it. I think it's some way to absorb the entire real world into the simulation. That'd both fulfill her programming and neutralize the threat.
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Apr 15, 2017 15:22
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nelson posted:Fitz has shown signs of no remorse murder before. Like when he shot Dr. Radcliff in the face to see if he was a robot. He's a smart guy, he already knew he was a robot. He was literally saying "oh you're a robot" while shooting him. I mean, yeah, it would've been awkward if he was wrong. But non-corrupted Fitz wouldn't do it unless he was absolutely sure.
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Apr 15, 2017 15:56
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Blazing Ownager posted:I think it's some way to absorb the entire real world into the simulation. That'd both fulfill her programming and neutralize the threat. Alternately, it would go wrong and end up with our world being a mixture of the two, giving them something to do in the next hypothetical season.
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Apr 15, 2017 16:00
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Why does Coulson get a free pass? He called Hydra goons on a schoolchild, and also on Daisy and Jemma. He is clearly a bit nuts in this world, and if they had told him that Hydra was a group of shapeshifting reptiles from Venus, he probably would have believed them. As far as i am concerned the characters in the framwork aren't "real", and should feel little to no guild over the bad things that they did there.
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Apr 15, 2017 17:01
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I don't think he called the goons on the kid. It seemed like they just showed up for ~reasons~ (like they had intelligence on the kid). Him letting them take the kid is justifiable in the context of the world he's in: hail hydra they are good and great. Him calling hydra on Simmons makes sense too for the same exact reasons.
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Apr 15, 2017 17:09
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Yeah, we have no reason to assume he ratted out the kid. He just let it happen the same way Mack let them grab that guy and setup Daisy. Life under fascism is full of tough moral choices like that. Ultimately both Caulson and Mack had enough and joined the resistance.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:01
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don't think he called the goons on the kid. It seemed like they just showed up for ~reasons~ (like they had intelligence on the kid). Him letting them take the kid is justifiable in the context of the world he's in: hail hydra they are good and great. That was my point, Coulson is a product of the world that Ada created, and who knows how much she actively changed to make them all behave a certain way. Coulson's actions inside the framework doesn't make him a bad person in real life, and he shouldn't feel bad for what he did. Neither should Fitz or May.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:03
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Knowing that you can turn "evil" by changing a few things isn't really a comfort to most people who would consider themselves morally good. I assume I couldn't murder someone and never have. If circumstances occur that lead me to murder someone that potentially changes everything I think about myself. Like, the entire narrative there was "I know who I am" and Fitz choosing Hydra even while Mack, unprompted by details of the framework, choose SHIELD out if the guilt he felt. That doesn't inherently make Mack a better person than Fitz but it gives Fitz a lot to think about. And whether Fits ultimately excuses himself or not it doesn't really change the fact that he killed Agnes. And that may be tough for him to forgive himself for.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:18
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He didn't kill Agnes. Agnes was already dead. He killed a bit of code living in the Framework that just so happened to be a copy of a real person. 
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Apr 15, 2017 19:45
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By that logic Fitz didnt even do that. A copied code of him did. And yet I'd you kill Fitz in the Framework he'll be braindead in the real world. I suspect Fitz will see more in Agnes' consciousness and mind given his general views on science and spirituality.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:49
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Oasx posted:That was my point, Coulson is a product of the world that Ada created, and who knows how much she actively changed to make them all behave a certain way. Coulson's actions inside the framework doesn't make him a bad person in real life, and he shouldn't feel bad for what he did. Neither should Fitz or May. There's a HUGE gulf of moral choices between letting someone be taken away and shooting someone you think is a living, breathing human point-blank in the heart with zero hesitation.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:52
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STAC Goat posted:By that logic Fitz didnt even do that. A copied code of him did. And yet I'd you kill Fitz in the Framework he'll be braindead in the real world. It's different for Fitz and the others, because they are alive in the real world and their actual physical brains are receiving and sending data into the Framework. They're "experiencing" this, as it were. It's why dying in the Framework would kill them in real life; their minds would "experience" death to such a realistic degree that they couldn't handle it. And yet, the same isn't true in reverse. If your physical body dies while hooked into the Framework, your Framework self keeps right on going. The data the Framework gathered keeps going, but there is no longer an active mind sending new inputs or receiving feedback. There's no longer anyone to "experience" the Framework, just a piece of the Framework itself. What would you refer to it as if not a copy? I mean, it's still sad that she died, because that was all that was really left of her in the world, but it's not quite the same as killing a real person.
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Apr 15, 2017 23:01
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I don't have any understanding of this. Its science fiction based on millennia of philosophy. We're dealing with the concepts that have captivated human curiosity and strife through all history like "consciousness", "life", and "souls." I have absolutely no idea if Agnes was alive in the Framework or not or if Radcliffe still is. But I know its in enough of a grey area that it makes total sense for Fitz to feel guilt over it and discover a whole new way to agonize over life's greatest mysteries. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 23:17
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Spergatory posted:. There's no longer anyone to "experience" the Framework, just a piece of the Framework itself. What would you refer to it as if not a copy? I wonder if Aida can do a system restore on the Framework to an earlier state.
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Apr 15, 2017 23:19
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STAC Goat posted:I don't have any understanding of this. Its science fiction based on millennia of philosophy. We're dealing with the concepts that have captivated human curiosity and strife through all history like "consciousness", "life", and "souls." I'm going to go if it's black magic it's probably dealing in real "souls" whatever that means in the MCU. Even Doctor Strange was pretty vague on that after the Ancient One winked out of existence when they died in the astral plane.
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Apr 15, 2017 23:49
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Whatever ends up happening will probably not be anywhere near as complicated as it's being made out to be here. Edit: vvv Not always. Longbaugh01 fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 23:57
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Longbaugh01 posted:Whatever ends up happening will probably not be anywhere near as complicated as it's being made out to be here. No doubt. But isn't insane speculation between episodes half the fun of a watching serialized television?
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Apr 16, 2017 00:01
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Yakmouth posted:No doubt. But isn't insane speculation between episodes half the fun of a watching serialized television?
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Apr 16, 2017 00:08
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I wan't entirely on board with the same characters but in an alternative world deal at first, especially since Archer just started again with a very similar presence. However, after "Make our society great again" I am 100% on board. Whoever slipped that line into this plotline deserves an Emmy.
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Apr 16, 2017 02:49
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STAC Goat posted:drat you, Lost. drat you to hell... or whatever that island was. The island was the magical capstone that kept the afterlife separate from our world. I think.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:26
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Lost needed Dracula as a character.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:28
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Strom Cuzewon posted:The island was the magical capstone that kept the afterlife separate from our world. I wasn't actually asking. Just making a joke about 7 years of insane speculation.
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Apr 16, 2017 22:37
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STAC Goat posted:I wasn't actually asking. Just making a joke about 7 years of insane speculation. Oh I wasn't actually answering, just making a joke about how insane the answer was Yours was funnier.
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Apr 16, 2017 22:48
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Gonz posted:Lost needed Dracula as a character. I believe you'll find that what Lost actually needed was for that polar bear to have a monocle, tophat, and Luxembourgian accent
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Apr 16, 2017 23:11
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Anyone who's enjoying Aida's turn as full on villain should check out Galavant, because you're in for a real treat. Also, thread title request to "Coulson's Crazy Soap Factory".
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Apr 16, 2017 23:38
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Red Oktober posted:Anyone check out Galavant, because you're in for a real treat. Fify
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Apr 16, 2017 23:42
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