|
kayakyakr posted:Fify Fighting the good fight.
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 14:55 |
|
|
Red Oktober posted:
Edit: kayakyakr posted:Fify drat you
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
It can not be stressed enough as to how good Galavant was. It's a shame it only got 2 seasons.Red Oktober posted:Also, thread title request to "Coulson's Crazy Soap Factory". That, or, "I Make My Own Soap Now".
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 00:03
|
|
|
Red Oktober posted:Also, thread title request to "Coulson's Crazy Soap Factory".
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 00:05
|
|
|
Red Oktober posted:Also, thread title request to "Coulson's Crazy Soap Factory". Yeah, this would be the best name.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 04:39
|
|
|
Magical Place
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 07:55
|
|
|
Kheldarn posted:It can not be stressed enough as to how good Galavant was. It's a shame it only got 2 seasons. Amen to that. Galavant was incredible. And on Agents right now, for some reason I'm not really digging the LMD plotline anymore. I'm really ready for it to be over with. But it is fun seeing alternate reality versions of everyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
flosofl posted:There's a HUGE gulf of moral choices between letting someone be taken away and shooting someone you think is a living, breathing human point-blank in the heart with zero hesitation. Absolutely, it's the fact that he didn't care if she was really real or not, he just pulled the trigger without any compunction or doubt. Up to that point you could still question how genuinely evil this version of Fitz was, if he was purely a victim of manipulation by Aida/Ophelia and could possibly be redeemed, etc. But then it's like "Oh...no, actually, he is just a cold-blooded psychopath."
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 16:01
|
|
|
Is there any kind of literary significance why Aida chose to call herself Ophelia?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Is there any kind of literary significance why Aida chose to call herself Ophelia? Are comic books literary?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Is there any kind of literary significance why Aida chose to call herself Ophelia? I know she's a character in Hamlet, but beyond that don't know how significant that is in the context of this show.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 17:07
|
|
|
How dare Fitz not believe those rogue agents trying to dismantle his organization when they make baseless claims about his character and the reality he lives in being a false simulation designed to keep him complacent.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
Doronin posted:And on Agents right now, for some reason I'm not really digging the LMD plotline anymore. I'm really ready for it to be over with. But it is fun seeing alternate reality versions of everyone. There's just so much oppressive goddamn despair right now that somebody needs to get a comeuppance soon. Let's get back to Quake versus Android Russian Guy Controlled By Brain in Jar and away from Literally Everyone is a Fascist World.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Is there any kind of literary significance why Aida chose to call herself Ophelia? Ophelia sounds like Ophidian, which is a snek?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Is there any kind of literary significance why Aida chose to call herself Ophelia? Think that is Madame Hydra's real name in the comics
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
hangedman1984 posted:Think that is Madame Hydra's real name in the comics Huh. The more you know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 18:03
|
|
|
I am thinking maybe Madame Hydra's plan is to put Fitz back in his real body, but with his framework mind, probably May and others too. We don't know how someone interprets their extended time in the Framework, as we've only seen people be in their for short term, but they probably just know it wasn't real once they're out of it and able to reorient themselves. Being able to bring people into the framework, literally change their minds, then putting them back in your real bodies. would be huge.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 18:03
|
|
|
It would definitely make "Happy to comply" seem small time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:How dare Fitz not believe those rogue agents trying to dismantle his organization when they make baseless claims about his character and the reality he lives in being a false simulation designed to keep him complacent. Pretty sure the issue is less that Fitz didn't believe the crazy story Radcliffe's was telling him but rather that he responded to it by executing someone. Framework Fitz is an evil fascist murderer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 19:59
|
|
|
drat Fitz, eat a Snickers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:03
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I am thinking maybe Madame Hydra's plan is to put Fitz back in his real body, but with his framework mind, probably May and others too. We don't know how someone interprets their extended time in the Framework, as we've only seen people be in their for short term, but they probably just know it wasn't real once they're out of it and able to reorient themselves. The whole conceit of the Framework is there is no "real world mind" or "Framework mind". The experience is being pumped directly into the brain. Fitz is Fitz is Fitz. He will have all the memories of the Framework when he wakes up. In Agnes's case, her mind was copied into the Framework since she was dying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:03
|
|
|
flosofl posted:The whole conceit of the Framework is there is no "real world mind" or "Framework mind". The experience is being pumped directly into the brain. Fitz is Fitz is Fitz. He will have all the memories of the Framework when he wakes up. We don't actually know what will be retained when they wake up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
Well Radcliffe's was popping in and out before Aida killed him and he seemed to be retaining poo poo although he was disorientated and seemed to have a hard time differentiating or telling time. My guess is that they'll all suffer a similar fate where their Framework minds and personalities blend with their real ones. Maybe the ones in the longest would suffer the worst of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Well Radcliffe's was popping in and out before Aida killed him and he seemed to be retaining poo poo although he was disorientated and seemed to have a hard time differentiating or telling time. That was before Aida forced him into it permanently. She's even said that she can alter things at her whim which is how she eliminated the escape hatch.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:13
|
|
|
Well yeah, obviously Radcliffe's can't escape now (and has nowhere to escape too) but theoretically the memory mechanics work the same. And May also seemed to remember the Framework when she broke free. Aida's got no real reason to alter that even if she could since she has no intention to let them out. If the framework consciousness is linked to the person's brain then there might just be no way to keep that link from flowing two ways. Although that does beg the question of why Aida hasn't just killed everyone. Apparently she's really embracing this Bond Villain thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Well yeah, obviously Radcliffe's can't escape now (and has nowhere to escape too) but theoretically the memory mechanics work the same. And May also seemed to remember the Framework when she broke free. AIDA's is a crazy, control freak that just wants to be loved. Her brain is not human and never was. Her motivations are alien and unknowable. She's like a Lovecraftian monster hidden inside a creepy, skinny, lady body.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Although that does beg the question of why Aida hasn't just killed everyone. Apparently she's really embracing this Bond Villain thing. I'm pretty sure her programming is still in force. She was able to 'kill' Radcliffe only because she reasoned that body-death doesn't count, only mind-death. But she isn't allowed to mind-kill real people. That's why Fitz had to kill Agnes, because she couldn't. I think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:That was before Aida forced him into it permanently. She's even said that she can alter things at her whim which is how she eliminated the escape hatch. So you're going with Roko's Basilisk for The Framework. As opposed to there is only one "Mind" and where it's housed can change. Yakmouth posted:I'm pretty sure her programming is still in force. She was able to 'kill' Radcliffe only because she reasoned that body-death doesn't count, only mind-death. But she isn't allowed to mind-kill real people. That's why Fitz had to kill Agnes, because she couldn't. No, I'm with you. That was my take while watching, too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
But then why doesn't she just body kill everyone now that their minds are in the Framework? It would be the same logic as killing Radcliffe. I guess I could argue that she perceived Radcliffe's death as a need since he had his own agenda working against hers but the same obviously holds true for the SHIELD agents. But I also accept the idea (and have advanced it in the past) that Aida is effectively an alien being and we have absolutely no idea of what or how she's thinking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:But then why doesn't she just body kill everyone now that their minds are in the Framework? It would be the same logic as killing Radcliffe. I guess I could argue that she perceived Radcliffe's death as a need since he had his own agenda working against hers but the same obviously holds true for the SHIELD agents. The fact that she hasn't real-world killed the plugged agents makes me think more about her robot self and her Framework self being two distinct entities.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:But then why doesn't she just body kill everyone now that their minds are in the Framework? It would be the same logic as killing Radcliffe. I guess I could argue that she perceived Radcliffe's death as a need since he had his own agenda working against hers but the same obviously holds true for the SHIELD agents. We don't actually know that she hasn't already body-killed everyone. She probably hasn't, but we don't actually know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:05
|
|
|
I suppose that's true. Aleph Null posted:The fact that she hasn't real-world killed the plugged agents makes me think more about her robot self and her Framework self being two distinct entities. Well, that's a possibility but its also possible that its simply because it would be a real bummer if 2/3rds of the cast was dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:05
|
|
|
She might have a use for the meat still. Maybe Aida wants a meat body of her own.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Or I guess maybe she's keeping them "body alive" so she reserves the right to "mind kill" them in the Framework (without violating her "preserve life" order) the way she did with Jemma. Although the more I think about Jemma's Framework situation the less it makes sense to me. Again, I'm content with "Aida is a capricious alien monster we do not understand."
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Maybe she's using their bodies as batteries to power the framework. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
Aleph Null posted:The fact that she hasn't real-world killed the plugged agents makes me think more about her robot self and her Framework self being two distinct entities. A few episodes back when she was collecting the broken body of The Superior and "monologuing" about plans for him, wasn't there some second, off-screen Aida voice that responded? We've already had multiple Aida's in the real world (the raid on SHIELD HQ) wouldn't be a stretch to assume the one in the framework is a "copy" placed there by Aida Prime that has grown to resent being "just a copy".
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 00:28
|
|
|
Nill posted:A few episodes back when she was collecting the broken body of The Superior and "monologuing" about plans for him, wasn't there some second, off-screen Aida voice that responded? Yeah we did think there was going to be an Aida V Aida throwdown at one point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
Yakmouth posted:I'm pretty sure her programming is still in force. She was able to 'kill' Radcliffe only because she reasoned that body-death doesn't count, only mind-death. But she isn't allowed to mind-kill real people. That's why Fitz had to kill Agnes, because she couldn't. Didn't she kill that SHIELD agent that was sent to pick her up from Radcliffe's house? Or was that B-ADA?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
a crisp refreshing Moxie posted:Didn't she kill that SHIELD agent that was sent to pick her up from Radcliffe's house? I've got no way of re-watching the old episodes, but my recollection is that after killing the guy (Davis?) Radcliff freaked out and reprogrammed her not do that kind of thing any more. I honestly might be miss-remembering this. Right before she slit Radcliff's throat they had an argument about paradoxical directives. I thought the paradox was between 'protecting the Framework at all costs' (that one I'm sure of) and 'keeping people safe'. Maybe the second one was only 'keeping Radcliff safe'? I'm honestly questioning myself now. But tbh we really don't know her actual end game yet. I mean she had an army of Quakes built, did some pretty messed up things to the Superior (but didn't kill him) -- she hasn't done all that just to rule her own VR kingdom, there's more going on. So maybe she can kill off the agents but needs them for her plan?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 14:55 |
|
|
Yakmouth posted:I've got no way of re-watching the old episodes, but my recollection is that after killing the guy (Davis?) Radcliff freaked out and reprogrammed her not do that kind of thing any more. Yeah, the paradox was between keeping the framework safe and keeping Radcliff safe. Since she determined that Radcliff's flakiness was the framework's greatest threat, then she hit a paradox because keeping the framework safe meant killing him. He solved the paradox for her by emphatically stating it was his belief that life in the framework was no different/no less valid than life outside it. Therefore, shoving him in and killing his body to contain him there did not constitute harming him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 04:48
|
|