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Endorph posted:also the difference between those two gay dudes and lala-chan is that lala-chan is a person. she's not a major character or anything and is depicted a bit stereotypically but there's plenty of people that look like that in irl shinjuku and she's, again, presented like a person. she makes jokes, she interacts with the protag and ohya in a normal, reasonable way, etc. those two weird gay dudes just mince onscreen and say they're gonna rape ryuji. This was sort of the point I was making? It's unfair to say that those two guys are the only representation of homosexuality in the game and thus damming proof of it's vile hatred when it has a character like this that has about as much relevance to the game (if not more, I feel lala has way more overal lines when you include her slink scenes and working at the bar)
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Apr 17, 2017 20:43
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Okay, changing this unanswerable topic.... I'm still really loving enjoying this game. I'm about 30 hours in and just hit the into to the 3rd dungeon. It seems pretty clear that the dungeons are themed after the seven sins. And I wonder where that will go. I have no loving clue how people are beating this game already with 120 hours on the clock. That being said, I've been playing with my wife watching the whole time and she absolutely loves this game so far. We've been playing with a guide (so we can see all the social links in one playthrough) and it hasn't changed our enjoyment of the game. So far, I think I prefer P5 protag to P4 protag. Also, the stakes feel far loving higher 30 hours into P5 than 30 hours into P4.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:43
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darealkooky posted:I'm making a joke to lampoon your point because I'm emotionally immature. P5 is far from a fox news talking piece about how the gay conspiracy is aiming to convert our young strapping males, and it feels more like it just comes from a POV of not even thinking about how people might take offense at that.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:44
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because you sound like a puritan that feels a need to inject their personal feelings into the art of others instead of letting people do what they want.
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I'm tempted to change my avatar now that I've played the game so the sign reads "gently caress the Police" instead
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Apr 17, 2017 20:44
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YoshiOfYellow posted:
They specifically added anime scenes in Golden with Kanji blushing at Naoto at the ski trip. They doubled down on him being not gay.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:45
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Tae posted:They specifically added anime scenes in Golden with Kanji blushing at Naoto at the ski trip. They doubled down on him being not gay. this is exactly what i meant when i said additional material contextualizes stuff. thank you.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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darealkooky posted:I'm emotionally immature Anyway, if people shouldn't have to self-censor their art, why should I have to self-censor my criticism of that art? And when real life gay people are being oppressed and criminalized in a variety of ways, I think it's okay to say that a game that makes some kinda lovely jokes about them is harmful. I'm not saying Persona 5 is causing gay concentration camps and I'm not saying it'd solve them if it had a cool gay character, but having the lovely gay characters reaffirms a lot of negative attitudes while having a cool gay character challenges those lovely attitudes. So much of people's understanding of the world around them comes from pop culture that I think it's extremely childish + denying the entire point of art as a whole to go 'well, it doesn't matter!' Atlus made a thing, I can say whatever the hell I want to about that thing, including that it has some really lovely jokes in it that made me enjoy playing it less. I think the multi-billion dollar corporation will be okay with that criticism existing in the world, and other people can agree or disagree with that criticism, but going 'nooo, stop making that criticism! stooop!' is just childish. How does it affect you if I say that joke is lovely and made me feel bad?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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Captain Oblivious posted:Haru is easily one of the strongest characters in the game alongside Ryuji and Makoto. What did you give up to get Heat Riser? Evade Nuke?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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Harrow posted:I'm tempted to change my avatar now that I've played the game so the sign reads "gently caress the Police" instead Nah, change it to "We hate cops."
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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Endorph posted:This never happened. Kanji's dub VA said some stuff, but that was stuff being told to him by the game's english voice director, not the people who wrote the game. It was specifically on how he was told to voice Kanji's Shadow, iirc as well. So it makes even less sense to hold that as some sort of proof of his gayness given the entire point of his arc.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:47
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darealkooky posted:I'm making a joke to lampoon your point because I'm emotionally immature. P5 is far from a fox news talking piece about how the gay conspiracy is aiming to convert our young strapping males, and it feels more like it just comes from a POV of not even thinking about how people might take offense at that. There are two specific questions you should answer. Not with long winded answers, but with Yes/No. 1 - Are you a nationalist? 2 - Do you believe SJWs are ruining ethics in games journalism?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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Anyway I'm totally hitting up Nichome if I ever go to Tokyo.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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Clarste posted:As I recall, the only official word we've gotten is that the English VA was instructed to play him as gay. Endorph posted:This never happened. Kanji's dub VA said some stuff, but that was stuff being told to him by the game's english voice director, not the people who wrote the game. Ah that's what I was thinking of. I had a feeling it wasn't official word but I couldn't remember exactly. No wonder Kanji is such a hot issue to people. darealkooky posted:If you consider a scene in a video game to be 'harmful' then you need to Maybe we're tired of being treated as nothing but stupid jokes when we're featured in media and it would be nice to have respectful portrayals instead. Just because it's a scene in a videogame doesn't mean it can't be harmful. By this logic old racist caricatures of black people like the Br'er Rabbit cartoons are A-OK and people should just chill.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:47
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I'm interested in how differently this game's main plot and characters come off for Japanese players. Like at first, I thought that making the main character get probation for doing something unambiguously good was a little bit of a cop-out on making him actually a delinquent, but I realize I'm thinking of that in totally western terms and from what little I know, what he does really is a pretty big breach of societal norms.TheFireMagi posted:Nah, change it to "We hate cops." Way better
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Apr 17, 2017 20:46
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darealkooky posted:This was sort of the point I was making? It's unfair to say that those two guys are the only representation of homosexuality in the game and thus damming proof of it's vile hatred when it has a character like this that has about as much relevance to the game (if not more, I feel lala has way more overal lines when you include her slink scenes and working at the bar)
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Apr 17, 2017 20:48
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My fav thing regarding the Kanji issue is that awful Extra Credits youtube channel that's super popular that does hot takes on games did one about it and their take away was that Naoto was trans and Kanji was gay and if you disagree at all with their interpretation you're just a bigot.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:48
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Mordiceius posted:It seems pretty clear that the dungeons are themed after the seven sins. And I wonder where that will go. I'm about 100 hours in, and the answer to this seems to be nowhere, really.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:48
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anyway, apologies for misinterpreting that thing which kind of completely changes the entire meaning of everything and sorry for the dumb derail because im a dumblord.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:48
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Mordiceius posted:have no loving clue how people are beating this game already with 120 hours on the clock. I'll tell you how, since I just finished last night with 89 hours on the clock: I'm single and nearly every day after work has been me binging this game until I had to sleep so I could be functional at work the next day.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:48
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Endorph posted:Nobody said those two guys are the only representation of homosexuality in the game, but they're the most prominent depictions of it considering they're the only ones that actually in main story scenes and are introduced when you go to the Gay District. That was the foot they were putting forward when it came to homos. It's totally fair to say that they're the game's main representation of it. I love the one guys tiny hat and if they were just flaming and not the epic predatory gay stereotype and also had depth to them it woulda been FTW imo.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:49
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Ibram Gaunt posted:My fav thing regarding the Kanji issue is that awful Extra Credits youtube channel that's super popular that does hot takes on games did one about it and their take away was that Naoto was trans and Kanji was gay and if you disagree at all with their interpretation you're just a bigot. that channel is really bad
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Apr 17, 2017 20:49
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Mordiceius posted:I'm still really loving enjoying this game. I'm about 30 hours in and just hit the into to the 3rd dungeon. It seems pretty clear that the dungeons are themed after the seven sins. And I wonder where that will go.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:49
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I love the one guys tiny hat and if they were just flaming and not the epic predatory gay stereotype and also had depth to them it woulda been FTW imo. anime was right posted:that channel is really bad
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Apr 17, 2017 20:50
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The calling cards are written by idiots.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:50
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Moltrey posted:ah, glad we reached the SJW's Can't Take Jokes And Are Restricting Great Art That Offends People not even two weeks into this game's US life cycle I'm about as far from whatever weird strawman this is supposed to be as you can get. YoshiOfYellow posted:Maybe we're tired of being treated as nothing but stupid jokes when we're featured in media and it would be nice to have respectful portrayals instead. Just because it's a scene in a videogame doesn't mean it can't be harmful. By this logic old racist caricatures of black people like the Br'er Rabbit cartoons are A-OK and people should just chill. Except that the last game put out by these same people had some of the most progressive LGBT characters this side of arcade gannon. Say what you will about japanese mainstream culture but if there's one thing they have right it's that there's media for all tastes and people. It may lack tokenized gay characters shoehorned into a game that can't go two conversations without talking about how they are not only gay but gay for you but you can easily find media with characters that represent you if you just dig a little deeper.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:50
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Ibram Gaunt posted:My fav thing regarding the Kanji issue is that awful Extra Credits youtube channel that's super popular that does hot takes on games did one about it and their take away was that Naoto was trans and Kanji was gay and if you disagree at all with their interpretation you're just a bigot. As a gay trans person, EC is definitely in the wrong here.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:51
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Pollyanna posted:As a gay trans person, EC is definitely in the wrong here. *in stupid edited helium voice* Mayhaps you just have some growing up to do. 
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Apr 17, 2017 20:51
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darealkooky posted:Except that the last game put out by these same people had some of the most progressive LGBT characters this side of arcade gannon.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:51
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Saint Freak posted:The calling cards are written by idiots. But Makoto wrote that one
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Apr 17, 2017 20:51
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:What did you give up to get Heat Riser? Evade Nuke? I find Heat Riser to be a bit iffy on Haru since it's a single target buff when you could just have Makoto and Ryuji applying Marakukaja and Matarukaja while Joker throws up a Debilitate for a similar, but also more efficient effect. Harrow posted:I'm interested in how differently this game's main plot and characters come off for Japanese players. Like at first, I thought that making the main character get probation for doing something unambiguously good was a little bit of a cop-out on making him actually a delinquent, but I realize I'm thinking of that in totally western terms and from what little I know, what he does really is a pretty big breach of societal norms. Yeah the actions of the Phantom Thieves isn't super radical for a Western mindset, but respect for superiors in Asian cultures are super ingrained in those societies and trying to do something against abuse from people higher up in the system is generally frowned upon.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:51
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*in extremely tiny voice that is hidden behind seventeen conversation gates and two skill checks* 'btw im gay....' WOAH. EXTREMELY EPIC LGBT REPRESENTATION HERE, FOLKS.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:52
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Endorph posted:persona 4 did not have those, and arcade gannon sucks my balls Was catherine not a pstudio game?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:52
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Harrow posted:I'm interested in how differently this game's main plot and characters come off for Japanese players. Like at first, I thought that making the main character get probation for doing something unambiguously good was a little bit of a cop-out on making him actually a delinquent, but I realize I'm thinking of that in totally western terms and from what little I know, what he does really is a pretty big breach of societal norms. go download the font earwig factory because it's real similar to the font used in game for name tags and stuff
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Apr 17, 2017 20:53
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ChaosArgate posted:Yeah the actions of the Phantom Thieves isn't super radical for a Western mindset, but respect for superiors in Asian cultures are super ingrained in those societies and trying to do something against abuse from people higher up in the system is generally frowned upon. It's kind of interesting how some parts of the game work better for western audiences and others for Japanese audiences. The Phantom Thieves' rebellion is much less radical to westerners than it would be to Japanese players; meanwhile, apparently in Japan the whole phantom thief aesthetic is really played out and got some flak when the game was first revealed (at least according to something on read on The Internet, which must be true), while it seemed rad as gently caress to western audiences.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:53
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Endorph posted:*in extremely tiny voice that is hidden behind seventeen conversation gates and two skill checks* 'btw im gay....' this isnt melty blood
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Apr 17, 2017 20:54
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Endorph posted:*in extremely tiny voice that is hidden behind seventeen conversation gates and two skill checks* 'btw im gay....' It's nice to have homosexual characters that represent me. Not everyone is a bioware character irl.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:53
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darealkooky posted:Except that the last game put out by these same people had some of the most progressive LGBT characters this side of arcade gannon. And if you're talking about Catherine, did you mean the game where it's revealed that the smartest, most sympathetic and coolest character is revealed to be trans and all the guys get grossed out and dunk on her and the game wants you to laugh along? that game?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:54
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darealkooky posted:Was catherine not a pstudio game?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:53
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ChaosArgate posted:Yeah the actions of the Phantom Thieves isn't super radical for a Western mindset, but respect for superiors in Asian cultures are super ingrained in those societies and trying to do something against abuse from people higher up in the system is generally frowned upon. The most interesting thing about this game is how the West sees the situation vs Japan, and how this says way more about Japan IRL than the actual game characters.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:54
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anime was a mistake
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Apr 17, 2017 20:55
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