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I'm impressed it's taken North this long to write a story including dinosaurs.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:22
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Diet Poison posted:On that note, what were all the "lasting effects" of Black Vortex? Off the top of my head: I didn't read Black Vortex, but there was an editor's note in Royals about their destination being some planet that was destroyed there.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:27
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Archyduke posted:I mean I got the Uncanny X-Men issue where Wolverine is crucified on the cover at a Ride-Aid or something just fine. Granted I'm not that familiar with late-period Power Pack but was it really anomalously kid-inappropriate in the age of Carnage and three ongoing Punisher titles*? I wouldn't give the book to anyone Katie Power's age, that's for sure. There was a lot of weird nightmare-inducing imagery and psychological horror in that book. Not so much violence, but...
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Apr 18, 2017 20:38
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Archyduke posted:I mean I got the Uncanny X-Men issue where Wolverine is crucified on the cover at a Ride-Aid or something just fine. Granted I'm not that familiar with late-period Power Pack but was it really anomalously kid-inappropriate in the age of Carnage and three ongoing Punisher titles*? Power Pack could be a really scary book when it wanted to be, particularly once Jon Bognadove took over. Off the top of my head, the "Inferno" tie-in issues are genuinely scary horror comics dealing with the fear of parental abandonment (Jay & Miles talked about them in their wrap-up podcast episode about "Inferno"); they dealt with a lot of drug problems; and there's a story where Julie takes a serious injury to her legs. (One of the villains-of-the-week has scales, claws, and as she finds out, razor-sharp spines instead of hair. This is when she has the mass powers, so one of her primary methods of attack is to go super-dense and suddenly land on a guy.)
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Apr 18, 2017 21:17
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Katie Power guest-starred in that one really good issue of Uncanny drawn by Barry Windsor-Smith where Wolverine fights Lady Deathstrike and the Reavers in Central Park during a snowstorm; I hadn't the foggiest what Power Pack was when I read that so I was a bit confused about why this little girl was following catatonic Wolverine around. 
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Apr 18, 2017 22:19
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Lurdiak posted:Maybe someone had the presence of mind to realize how hosed up the comic was and in how much trouble they'd get if a bible mom accidentally bought it for her kids. Hunh? Power Pack dealt with some heavy stuff (runaways and child abuse were two I could remember), but it was always explicitly for young kids. Having it available in nerd dungeons only was a mistake. See also DC's attempts at direct-only books hurting sales on both Teen Titans and LoSH a few years before. Edge & Christian posted:Citation needed for this, especially because ONE YEAR GREATER involved DC derailing/stopping publishing their regular titles for zero months. It was just a creative team shake-up/relaunch of a bunch of books that came out the month after the issues that happened before the time jump. Some of these new creative teams/directions were poorly received, but isn't that just because they were lovely stories, not because they had an internal leap of one year or a new creative team on them? Which books do you think had their sales killed by either of these things? Really? I was reading sales charts at the time, and OYL triggered a a big reduction in sales on almost every book. Here's a month-to-month DC charts from Feb 2007, so you can see how OYL hollowed out books (see Supergirl and Hawkgirl for the worst), or at best had no effect. OYL was in May 2006, so you can see it not help out much. I thought this was common knowledge-- DC squandered any momentum they had out of Infinite Crisis, and really never did all that well again sales-wise until New 52.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:24
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I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:27
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X-O posted:I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world. Aw, man. 
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Apr 18, 2017 23:36
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X-O posted:I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world. This is really disappointing. Edit - I'm writing my research paper for a History seminar focusing on race/ethnicity in Marvel comics from 1975 to 1985 if anybody is interested in reading that, I'll have a rough draft done by Friday. Roth fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 23:46
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X-O posted:I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world. Boo to that poo poo. I'd also guess that puts the books below it sales-wise at risk. So enjoy the following while they last-- Rocket Raccoon, Power Man & Iron Fist, Star-Lord, Thunderbolts, Spider-Woman, Unstoppable Wasp, Great Lakes Avengers, Prowler, Moon Girl, Hellcat, Mosaic, and Foolkiller. That's a dishearteningly large number of books, and I'm hoping at least Moon Girl sticks around due to non-monthly sales. It's not my book, but I really want stuff that does well with non-traditional comic audiences. quote:I'm writing my research paper for a History seminar focusing on race/ethnicity in Marvel comics from 1975 to 1985 if anybody is interested in reading that, I'll have a rough draft done by Friday. Yes please.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:53
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X-O posted:I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world. What?!?! God DAMMIT! I just get Richard Rider back and now this happens!
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Apr 18, 2017 23:55
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rkajdi posted:Boo to that poo poo. I'd also guess that puts the books below it sales-wise at risk. So enjoy the following while they last-- Rocket Raccoon, Power Man & Iron Fist, Star-Lord, Thunderbolts, Spider-Woman, Unstoppable Wasp, Great Lakes Avengers, Prowler, Moon Girl, Hellcat, Mosaic, and Foolkiller. That's a dishearteningly large number of books, and I'm hoping at least Moon Girl sticks around due to non-monthly sales. It's not my book, but I really want stuff that does well with non-traditional comic audiences. Rocket Raccoon, Power Man and Iron Fist, Star-Lord, Spider-Woman, Great Lakes Avengers, Prowler, Hellcat and Foolkiller were already done. Most of them have already had their last issue.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:57
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pubic works project posted:What?!?! God DAMMIT! I just get Richard Rider back and now this happens! With the way the plot is going, I was thinking that Richard being back was only temporary.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:56
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Roth posted:With the way the plot is going, I was thinking that Richard being back was only temporary. Noooooooooooooo!
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Apr 18, 2017 23:57
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rkajdi posted:Boo to that poo poo. I'd also guess that puts the books below it sales-wise at risk. So enjoy the following while they last-- Rocket Raccoon, Power Man & Iron Fist, Star-Lord, Thunderbolts, Spider-Woman, Unstoppable Wasp, Great Lakes Avengers, Prowler, Moon Girl, Hellcat, Mosaic, and Foolkiller. That's a dishearteningly large number of books, and I'm hoping at least Moon Girl sticks around due to non-monthly sales. It's not my book, but I really want stuff that does well with non-traditional comic audiences. Hellcat has already been cancelled, I think. There's maybe one more issue?
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Apr 18, 2017 23:58
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X-O posted:I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:58
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rkajdi posted:Star-Lord http://zdarsky.tumblr.com/post/159720103556/it-was-a-short-ride-but-drat-it-was-fun-tomorrow
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Apr 19, 2017 00:00
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I think the Guardians solo books were always intended to be six issues, just not advertised as a mini to help boost sales.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:01
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Roth posted:I think the Guardians solo books were always intended to be six issues, just not advertised as a mini to help boost sales. Gamora was definitely a mini. And Rocket probably was since they announced the new Rocket! series like right after the second issue. I think Star-Lord was intended to be ongoing.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:10
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BrianWilly posted:Are you gaddam poopshatting serious? Are all the best books at Marvel really doing that badly? Looking at the sales charts, yeah pretty much. DC is beating Marvel, and I don't think they are doing all that well overall numbers wise either.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:11
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UUuugh I'm actually angry about it now. Nova is only one of two books I actually have a full-on subscription for, because I know it's going to be consistently good before I even open a page no matter what issue it is.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:31
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BrianWilly posted:UUuugh I'm actually angry about it now. Nova is only one of two books I actually have a full-on subscription for, because I know it's going to be consistently good before I even open a page no matter what issue it is. I feel the same way.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:34
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It sucks but it's hardly worth getting angry over. Books come and go. It's the way it works. Marvel tries these books out and if the readers are there they stick and if not you can't really get mad at them for it. I mean I'm not happy it's ending but there's other books I'll miss more like Spider-Woman, Silk, and eventually Wasp. The niche books are sometimes good because they're niche, that's also what puts them in these dangerous sales positions too.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:43
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Breaking my lurk habit to agree that yeah, Nova was the only Marvel book I was seriously excited for every month. Not just because I've been waiting for Rich to come back for years, but it was just such a solid, enjoyable book. This sucks.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:47
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Diet Poison posted:On that note, what were all the "lasting effects" of Black Vortex? Off the top of my head: Star-Lord's dad is trapped in frozen death somewhere on The Collector's planet. Hala was destroyed. Nova (Sam) found Nova (Richard)'s helmet and delivered it to Rich's parents. And I think Gamora and Angel got to keep their cosmic powers. X-O posted:I saw it coming, but still sucks to see it official that Nova is cancelled. Jeff Loveness books are just too good for this world. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! SilverSupernova fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 00:56
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X-O posted:It sucks but it's hardly worth getting angry over. Books come and go. It's the way it works. Marvel tries these books out and if the readers are there they stick and if not you can't really get mad at them for it. I mean I'm not happy it's ending but there's other books I'll miss more like Spider-Woman, Silk, and eventually Wasp. The niche books are sometimes good because they're niche, that's also what puts them in these dangerous sales positions too. It is DEFINITELY worth getting mad over, sir!!!!!! 
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Apr 19, 2017 01:15
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I'M MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!! *quietly buys Secret Empire despite how obvious it is I won't like it*
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Apr 19, 2017 01:21
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I'm upset because Nova was a genuinely good book that for once wasn't templated with an * that said "If it's to your tastes." It's one of the only recent books that everyone I've talked to has enjoyed, that no one has a problem with.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:23
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What pisses me off is that it was an amazing book even if you didn't follow either Novas' prior series. It was pretty much their best series in a long time and it gets the axe while garbage like Champions will likely persist for years. Oh well, there's still Gwenpool and US Avengers.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:25
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SilverSupernova posted:Oh well, there's still Gwenpool and US Avengers. For now.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:26
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rkajdi posted:Really? I was reading sales charts at the time, and OYL triggered a a big reduction in sales on almost every book. Here's a month-to-month DC charts from Feb 2007, so you can see how OYL hollowed out books (see Supergirl and Hawkgirl for the worst), or at best had no effect. OYL was in May 2006, so you can see it not help out much. I thought this was common knowledge-- DC squandered any momentum they had out of Infinite Crisis, and really never did all that well again sales-wise until New 52. In any case, looking through the sales, I wouldn't say OYL triggered a "big reduction in sales on almost every book." There's a few here and there that see drops, but most everything seems to get a boost for OYL then, over the course of a year, end up back where they were due to natural attrition. This is how comics sales tend to work and are precisely why the big 2 run events so frequently, unfortunately. I'd imagine any of those that dropped back to where they were would have been selling even worse without the OYL boost. As for Supergirl, the creative team change from superstar writer Jeph Loeb writing to a Greg Rucka and Joe Kelly was probably enough for people to dump, while Hawkgirl started as a OYL (replacing Hawkman), and any sales loss is entirely due to people checking it out then not being interested and dropping it a couple issues later, which, again, is normal. rkajdi posted:Looking at the sales charts, yeah pretty much. DC is beating Marvel, and I don't think they are doing all that well overall numbers wise either. Source: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017.html
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Apr 19, 2017 01:30
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SilverSupernova posted:What pisses me off is that it was an amazing book even if you didn't follow either Novas' prior series. It was pretty much their best series in a long time and it gets the axe while garbage like Champions will likely persist for years. Quality never guarantees sales unfortunately. It's going to really suck when Wasp is cancelled. I just hope it's like Moon Girl and sells well digitally and trades so it can have more than a single digit run. X-O fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 01:31
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Yeah Marvel overcharges so they're always going to win actual cash unless DC blows them out. A slight lead is huge for DC though because until Rebirth last summer, Marvel used to beat them by huge margins. Like mid 40s vs. mid 20s market share. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 01:33
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Nova is literally one of two Marvel books I still have on my pulllist. Richard better stick around.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:33
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Leth said Hellcat is ending on her terms. That could also mean they said "hey the books not selling, so wrap it up in X issues?"
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Apr 19, 2017 01:41
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Would anyone ever actually say "we're getting cancelled because people think our book is bad and our sales suck?"
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Apr 19, 2017 01:43
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twistedmentat posted:Leth said Hellcat is ending on her terms. That could also mean they said "hey the books not selling, so wrap it up in X issues?" I think that's exactly what happened based on how Leth described it in issue 16. "we've known for a while and Marvel's letting us see the story through"
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Apr 19, 2017 01:46
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Endless Mike posted:This is the kind of citation he was looking for, though you should be aware that while the OYL books had a cover date of April or May, many shipped as early as March, and that column uses the *shipping* date, not the cover date. I'm pretty sure that running a big event and having all your books lose the bounce from it within 2-3 months is terribad, especially when it's the company that was already having sales issues. 52 and hilariously enough Justice were doing well at the time for DC, but everything else reverted to mean or worse quickly. I've read sales charts for a long time as a way to make sure I'm not wasting effort reading a book that's just going to be dumped in a few months. So I know that sales are this awful downward trend. But with relaunches, you actually expect some level of a win out of it for a little bit of time. You got nothing meaningful from OYL. quote:Not...really? Of the last three months of available sale figures, DC is beating Marvel by 1.12% in unit sales in March, losing by 0.17% in February (so really, pretty much equal for both), and losing by 11.29% in January (an actual difference). They're losing dollar share by 6-8% in all three months. Wasn't a huge amount of this due to $10 Spiderman? So something that hopefully for readers won't be happening on a regular basis-- Marvel's bad enough price-wise as compared to DC without the return of expensive gimmick issues.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:48
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twistedmentat posted:Leth said Hellcat is ending on her terms. That could also mean they said "hey the books not selling, so wrap it up in X issues?" It's definitely that, she had a tweet about people saying to her "Hellcat's ending? I need to catch up on it" and her response being, "that's why it's ending."
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Apr 19, 2017 01:52
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rkajdi posted:I'm pretty sure that running a big event and having all your books lose the bounce from it within 2-3 months is terribad, especially when it's the company that was already having sales issues. 52 and hilariously enough Justice were doing well at the time for DC, but everything else reverted to mean or worse quickly. I've read sales charts for a long time as a way to make sure I'm not wasting effort reading a book that's just going to be dumped in a few months. So I know that sales are this awful downward trend. But with relaunches, you actually expect some level of a win out of it for a little bit of time. You got nothing meaningful from OYL. 
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Apr 19, 2017 01:57
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