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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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NewForumSoftware posted:Walking down the path of "lesser of two evils" only leads one way, to evil. As far as I know "better than the other guys" has been the Democrat's messaging since Obama won in 08. He seems to be the only centrist who recognizes you can't run as a centrist because nobody likes centrists. Hillary Clinton celebrated it and got owned by a spray tan factory. After 2008 the party became convinced that 'the Obama coalition' would guarantee their future success instead of realizing that Obama was a hall of fame level political talent. I think this (and his own natural cautiousness) helps explain why they set the cruise control after 2010.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:33
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Maarek posted:The Kool Aid drinkers seem to have no concept of how bad the current Democratic party is. It's in danger of becoming a blocking coalition that doesn't set its sights much higher than palliative care for the idea that government can be a positive influence in an American's life. The 2008 economic collapse gave them an opportunity to not just slow down the decline but offer up an alternative, but it ended with milquetoast finance reforms and a healthcare plan that's not going to be able to deal with costs in the long term. Hell, the ACA only really became popular when the GOP offered up their own Mad Max alternative. The Democrats ran their Bush Bad candidate in 2004 and the Republicans had their Obama Bad candidate in 2012. Funny enough we already had someone run for office trying out the Trump Bad strategy, but that won't stop the Democrats from doing it again. The bigger risk in my mind is that they'll take the message that they need to move more rightward, and you'll have Dems saying things like "we should provide for every citizen but the quality of said care shall be wholly determined by a subjective analysis of how much 'value' you contribute to society" and also they will be in the finance industry
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Apr 19, 2017 17:32
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:sure, but Congress had bailed the year before because they realized they had to get reelected I'd also factor the Katrina clusterfuck in there as well. But the main point is, at least for Democrats, "the other guy is bad" only really works when things are really, really bad. (Republicans don't have that problem, since their media machine keeps them in a constant state of "Democrats are pure evil" 24/7.)
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Apr 19, 2017 17:35
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Maarek posted:After 2008 the party became convinced that 'the Obama coalition' would guarantee their future success instead of realizing that Obama was a hall of fame level political talent. I think this (and his own natural cautiousness) helps explain why they set the cruise control after 2010. After 2008 they effectively destroyed the Obama coalition so I don't even know how they expected it to guarantee their future success.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:39
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GlyphGryph posted:After 2008 they effectively destroyed the Obama coalition so I don't even know how they expected it to guarantee their future success. *mumbles something incoherent about russia* are there still actual centrists that believe donald trump is a russian plant still?
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Apr 19, 2017 17:39
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NewForumSoftware posted:Obama won because he lied about being progressive.   
Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 17:40
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:The bigger risk in my mind is that they'll take the message that they need to move more rightward, and you'll have Dems saying things like "we should provide for every citizen but the quality of said care shall be wholly determined by a subjective analysis of how much 'value' you contribute to society" and also they will be in the finance industry You know...Considering both Alan Greenspan and Shitothy Geitner were both integral in two separate Democratic Administrations split by one insane Republican one and didn't really get shown the door until years after the entire world financial system almost poo poo the bed due to degenerate gambling...you may just have called how this is going to play out.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:44
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God drat I can't wait til Larry Summers croaks
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Apr 19, 2017 17:49
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Larry Summers really is one of the most evil men to come out of Harvard. But this is pretty telling of the mind setv of these technocrats regardless of party, they're fundamentally opposed to idea of equality and democracy because they feel they have the right to rule as aristocrats due to their pedigree, and connections
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Apr 19, 2017 17:58
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drat those pages make my stomach twist up upon itself in anger. I'm physically uncomfortable after having read them. It really is just a New Artistocracy. Neoaristocrats, royalty by virtue of "achievement" (by virtue of being royalty)
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Apr 19, 2017 17:59
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GlyphGryph posted:drat those pages make my stomach twist up upon itself in anger. I'm physically uncomfortable after having read them. I have more. I bought the book. (The audiobook is where it's at. It's narrated by the author). I'd post the whole thing if it weren't filez. 
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Apr 19, 2017 18:02
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What book is it?
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Apr 19, 2017 18:04
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https://www.commondreams.org/news/2013/08/01/obama-defends-larry-summers-against-attacks-liberal-media "GODDAMN LIBERAL MEDIA" - President Obama.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:03
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GlyphGryph posted:What book is it? https://www.amazon.com/Listen-Liberal-Happened-Party-People/dp/1250118131
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Apr 19, 2017 18:04
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Larry Summers posted:One of the reasons that inequality has probably gone up in our society is that people are being treated closer to the way that they're supposed to be treated. If you think there is any compromise or working together with these fuckers to improve our economy, or for that matter just get Democrats elected you're a fool. There is only the 
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Apr 19, 2017 18:10
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:sure, but Congress had bailed the year before because they realized they had to get reelected Didn't matter. Their initial support was on the books, they only tabled the bill, their repudiation was otherwise unclear, and Bush was a president of their party. The Democrats were wise to run on that, as well as the other fuckups of the administration. In 2018, they will be wise to run on poo poo like the AHCA, Trump wanting to raise taxes on the working class while cutting them on the ultra-mega-rich, the bizarre internet privacy poo poo, etc. There were also other issues that helped the Dems win in 2006, and there will be plenty of other issues that will help them win in 2018 as well. But the focus must be on what affects people in their households and their communities, and particularly people that get out and vote (namely old people). The Democratic base needs to turn out, and the Dems need to highlight issues that will at the very least discourage Trump supporters from turning out.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:16
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The alternative is the axeils of the world having to come to terms with the fact there's really nothing special about them. And speaking as someone who got to deliver the death notices of their businesses in powerpoint format to them, there is no amount of money, no number of jobs, no degree of other people suffering you can present to them that will be enough for them to accept that. They will drive their businesses, or in the case of Larry Summers the entirety of Eastern Europe, screaming into the ground "No, really, I got this! I GOT THIS!" Because if they -aren't- a better class of human being, superior by virtue of the internship daddy got them and the rarefied air in which they live, then their entire lives have been a sad joke, and the punchline is that they brought hundreds of other people's lives down with them. They say money can't buy love, but it sure can buy self-delusion. They can be suckered. They can be used. They can be tricked into doing the good they claim to want to see but refuse if they ever see the pricetag. But never, under any circumstances, give one of these inbred morons power, because from such well-meaning aristocratic dipshits were Gallipoli, AIG, and the Campaign of Hillary Rodham Clinton born. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 18:19
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Kilroy posted:Holy poo poo. That's a new one, for me at least. God drat. Like that's evil for a Republican. The fact that Obama kept defending this guy really paints a negative portrait of him.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:23
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Shitothy Geitner Are you a 5 year old? The gently caress is this, Rivals.com? Ze Pollack posted:The alternative is the axeils of the world having to come to terms with the fact there's really nothing special about them. I love that I've become this forum's boogy-man 
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Apr 19, 2017 18:23
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Radish posted:Like that's evil for a Republican. The fact that Obama kept defending this guy really paints a negative portrait of him. I think Obama was looking for whatever leverage he could possibly find with some fundamentally unhelpful neoliberal Democrats in Congress. That's not to say that Obama was right to keep Summers on, but I think he was more desperate for support than was obvious at the time. But yeah, gently caress Summers, what an unbelievably ghoulish statement.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:26
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axeil posted:Are you a 5 year old? The gently caress is this, Rivals.com? Tell us some more about the proper disposition of the lesser peoples of the world, axeil, and the precise degree of suffering you would prefer be visited upon them for their crimes. In full, mature, and serious format, of course.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:27
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axeil posted:I love that I've become this forum's boogy-man Really not that hard when you tell everyone you work in finance and inequality is by design.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:29
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axeil posted:I love that I've become this forum's boogy-man You haven't, it's just incredibly ghoulish when some finance dipshit tries to pontificate about how people who work harder and provide more good to society than them don't deserve nice things. Hence people are telling you to go gently caress yourself.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:33
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Ze Pollack posted:Tell us some more about the proper disposition of the lesser peoples of the world, axeil, and the precise degree of suffering you would prefer be visited upon them for their crimes. I think everyone should be excellent to each other
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Apr 19, 2017 18:34
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Majorian posted:I think Obama was looking for whatever leverage he could possibly find with some fundamentally unhelpful neoliberal Democrats in Congress. That's not to say that Obama was right to keep Summers on, but I think he was more desperate for support than was obvious at the time. I think this is being far too generous to Obama when it's more likely he subscribed to NeoLiberal economics as well. His Grand Bargin being a big hint to that.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:37
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axeil posted:I think everyone should be excellent to each other What definition of 'excellent' includes "we need to make sure that poor people aren't too comfortable," axeil
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Apr 19, 2017 18:38
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Wait, I don't get it - Bernie is racsexist, are black and Latino people racsexist too?
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Apr 19, 2017 18:43
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call to action posted:Wait, I don't get it - Bernie is racsexist, are black and Latino people racsexist too? everyone is a racsexist except for meeeeeeeeee
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Apr 19, 2017 18:45
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KomradeX posted:I think this is being far too generous to Obama when it's more likely he subscribed to NeoLiberal economics as well. His Grand Bargin being a big hint to that. Reminder that Obama supports standardized testing, charter schools, entitlement reform, cutting deficit spending during a recession, ("People are tightening their belts, the government should do the same," during a SOTU address), "cream rising to the top" and increased free trade deals. He's a neoliberal Clintonite.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:48
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KomradeX posted:I think this is being far too generous to Obama when it's more likely he subscribed to NeoLiberal economics as well. His Grand Bargin being a big hint to that. Oh, I think he subscribes to neoliberalism as well. But Obama has never gotten very close with the Clintonista Democratic establishment. I think he finds Summers pretty awful personally, and I think he probably wouldn't sign on with that particularly grotesque comment.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:48
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Majorian posted:Oh, I think he subscribes to neoliberalism as well. But Obama has never gotten very close with the Clintonista Democratic establishment. I think he finds Summers pretty awful personally, and I think he probably wouldn't sign on with that particularly grotesque comment. I would like to think he wouldn't either, or at least was smart enough to not do so. But his actions of pushing these awful reforms and half measures makes me think he doesn't disagree too strongly
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Apr 19, 2017 18:58
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Seriously though, all the "economic justice is racism" crew - how do you explain the fact that Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician with black people? I thought he failed to connect with them? I'm guessing you think he's using Ancient Jewish Tricks to fool them but I wanted to confirm
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Apr 19, 2017 19:23
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I would love to know how people believe "A livable minimum wage for all citizens" = racism.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:25
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call to action posted:Seriously though, all the "economic justice is racism" crew - how do you explain the fact that Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician with black people? I thought he failed to connect with them? I'm guessing you think he's using Ancient Jewish Tricks to fool them but I wanted to confirm In fairness, their other option is Trump
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Apr 19, 2017 19:27
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Mister Facetious posted:I would love to know how people believe "A livable minimum wage for all citizens" = racism. "It does not solve racism, therefore the only reason you could want it is because you are racist."
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Apr 19, 2017 19:45
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Helping minority families have enough to eat and pay rent is racist. Got it. 
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Apr 19, 2017 19:48
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I had this amazing idea the other day Like, I'm about to blow your mind What if we I mean IF here Pushed for Racial Justice WITH Stick with me here Economic Justice as well? Its a pretty real fuckin crazy idea I know
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Apr 19, 2017 19:50
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Feldegast42 posted:I had this amazing idea the other day Sorry, that idea is far too radical for the folks in this thread.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:00
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Radish posted:Like that's evil for a Republican. The fact that Obama kept defending this guy really paints a negative portrait of him. Hell, there is a nonzero chance that Obama buys into this horrifying poo poo too. Good God Summers is absolute scum.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:17
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Feldegast42 posted:I had this amazing idea the other day You only get two spec points, and if you don't invest them both into the same tree, you won't get your free silver level talent, you fool, you traitor
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Apr 19, 2017 20:17
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