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lol here it isdeep web creep posted:One a Korea goon got yelled at (kicked out maybe? I can't remember) in the Korean Kimchi museum because he suggested to the guy there that maybe the ancient kimchi recreation shouldn't be full of chili pepper powder
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Apr 21, 2017 05:33
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They used vinegar
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Apr 21, 2017 05:34
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Even when Korea has a point the nationalism will not be satisfied. For example, moveable metal type was first used in Korea. However, if you go to the national museum in Seoul you'll find the exhibit on the invention says that moveable type in general was invented in Korea. It's already an impressive historical achievement. Why exaggerate it to the point of falsehood?
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Apr 21, 2017 05:41
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The round-earth thing makes me suspect that the Chinese aren't too different from the Koreans at all in their "we invented sitting! we invented drinking glasses! we invented the cow!" obsessions.
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Apr 21, 2017 06:21
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"Older = Better" seems to be a trait of East Asian nationalism and if you're the oldest obviously you've invented most things
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Apr 21, 2017 06:22
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I invented the chili pepper YOU'RE WELCOME
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Apr 21, 2017 06:26
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hakimashou posted:The round-earth thing makes me suspect that the Chinese aren't too different from the Koreans at all in their "we invented sitting! we invented drinking glasses! we invented the cow!" obsessions. They definitely do it but my personal experience is Korea does it much more. I've never had a Chinese person claim they invented chili peppers or other obvious nonsense of that sort. Most of my students thought Egypt was the oldest civilization, which is a lot closer to correct than China so I'll take it.
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Apr 21, 2017 06:30
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Egyptian Old Kingdom is the generally accepted answer IIRC but it jostles with Indus Valley and Sumeria for "oldest civilization" among archaeologists and historians of the ancient world IIRC The advantage with Egypt is that it's still around which is why the Chinese have a bug in their butt about it but not Sumeria or Indus Valley
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Apr 21, 2017 06:34
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Fojar38 posted:Egyptian Old Kingdom is the generally accepted answer IIRC but it jostles with Indus Valley and Sumeria for "oldest civilization" among archaeologists and historians of the ancient world IIRC History = writing and Sumeria has the first writing, therefore it has the oldest history. Prehistorically the oldest recognizable city is in Turkey but I'd bet you that isn't the oldest site out there to find. Their minds were blown by how old civilization is in the Americas and the pictures of Norte Chico pyramids thousands of years older than anything extant in China.
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Apr 21, 2017 06:41
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There's a "Puzzle Museum" in Ulaan Baatar. It mostly just contains lots of little hand-sized puzzles you can try and solve, but also has some history stuff. At one point our tour guide just nonchalantly says "And as you know, the first puzzles came from Mongolia". One of my friends was like "Woah, wait a second, what did you say? How can you possibly know that? What does that even mean?". The lady looked at him and said matter-of-factly "The ger is a puzzle". And then moved on as if that settled it.
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Apr 21, 2017 06:41
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I had a Chinese friend in middle school who swore up and down that China invented pizza so idk He might have just been a dumb middle-schooler though
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Apr 21, 2017 06:41
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A documentary came on TV last night about how Westerners uncovered that the US used germ warfare in the Korean war so it must be true, and also there was a line that went something like "and we Chinese proved we have a long tradition of being wise men, making contributions to global science and technology, and that we are not the "sick men of Asia" as is often said" Maybe I'm dense but i have never attacked China for being the sick men of Asia. Should I have done?
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Apr 21, 2017 06:48
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simplefish posted:A documentary came on TV last night about how Westerners uncovered that the US used germ warfare in the Korean war so it must be true, and also there was a line that went something like "and we Chinese proved we have a long tradition of being wise men, making contributions to global science and technology, and that we are not the "sick men of Asia" as is often said" That sounds like a line from the early 1900s, the same way the Ottoman Empire was the "sick man of Europe".
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Apr 21, 2017 06:55
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Based on the number of hacking coughs I hear every day, "sick man of Asia" sounds pretty accurate.
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Apr 21, 2017 06:56
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"Sick man of X" is used to refer to large countries that should be powerful and influential based on their size but are held back from their potential due to internal weakness, ie they are "sick" and was most widely used in reference to the Ottoman Empire in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries (The Sick Man of Europe) I would say that it absolutely applies to China up to this very day, although the term isn't as useful as it once was because it was coined in an era where the chief measure of power was still considered to be population, a metric that hasn't really been decisive on its own since the Middle Ages
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Apr 21, 2017 07:00
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:Based on the number of hacking coughs I hear every day, "sick man of Asia" sounds pretty accurate. 
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Apr 21, 2017 07:02
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Fojar38 posted:The entire notion of a linear path of development that ultimately ends in what we call "modernity" and different countries are just at different stages of said linear scale is inherently eurocentric Didn't somebody post some +100 years old journals of a brit that sounded almost exactly like the standard stuff that you hear about china today?
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Apr 21, 2017 07:08
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I've shittalked Joseph Needham a whole lot on the basis of his eurocentric bias basically starting the "China invented everything" narrative that's so prevalent today but he sorta redeemed himself simply by translating shitloads of Chinese records into English (oh he was also a communist and was very buddy buddy with the CCP) But there are piles and piles and piles of Europeans who saw China as an extremely advanced country that was just momentarily hobbled and was destined to eventually rule the East the way that the White Man ruled the West (including Napoleon "loving" Bonaparte IIRC) but of course we all know that the Japanese beat them to the punch in that regard lmao Personally I think that what brought on Europeans to think this way wasn't because they saw evidence of great technological achievement in China (incredible architecture notwithstanding) so much as the massive Imperial bureaucracy looked to be a meritocratic and scientific method of organizing society that melded well with Enlightenment ideas that were taking shape at the time
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Apr 21, 2017 07:15
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Fojar38 posted:So I just did a bunch of research and from what I understand, China's GDP is stagnating in US dollar terms because of a depreciation of the Yuan amounting to roughly 10% since the 2015 stock market crash. The depreciation pressure is because of the capital outflows from China, which are/were being driven by a lack of investment opportunity in China along with lots of firms with US Dollar denominated debts that were becoming more and more expensive as long as all their assets/profits were denominated in Yuan. Depreciation has stabilized somewhat in recent months because of these new restrictions of capital outflows, but it means that there is now a ton of money in China with nowhere to go, hence the asset bubbles and price inflation. Maybe? The thing is that the current bubble has been going on since 2009, and by 2011 it was apparent to a lot of people including people in the Chinese government that there was a big problem at hand. Because of that, China has had a persistent issue of capital flight. That’s why you had those fake raw material import invoices, Macau casino tour junkets, cross-border pawn shop swaps in Hong Kong, and whatever hare-brained scheme they could cook up to get money out starting around the 2012-2013 period. So, there needs to be some other evidence to show that the capital flight starting around 2015 has dramatically increased to cause the depreciation. I haven’t been reading up on Chinese econ news for the past few years, but I haven’t seen anything that directly shows that capital flight has gotten substantially worse in the past two years. The evidence every wannabe economics prognosticator uses is the drop in the Chinese foreign reserves, but that’s circumstantial at best because we don’t actually know what the PBOC did with those reserves. Maybe they did sell them to defend the RMB. Maybe they transferred them to other institutions. Maybe there was a revaluation of the assets since the value of foreign reserves is self-reported. We really can’t tell. So the theoretical mechanism you described is correct. But what doesn’t line up is the timing. Why now? The bubble has been going on since 2009. Why should capital flight be a problem in 2015 and not in 2011, ‘12, ‘13, or ‘14? One kind of “out there” explanation for the currency depreciation I heard was that the Chinese government was either causing it or allowing it to happen. The 2015 stock crash and persistent news about slowdown, downturn, or hard landing gives the CCP political cover to depreciate the currency. They can tell the rest of the world “we’re floating the exchange rate, this is just what the markets decided” and avoid any serious accusations of manipulating the currency. In the meanwhile, they can possibly boost their export sectors while the rest of their economy flounders. I am not an economist so I cannot comment (definitively).
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Apr 21, 2017 07:15
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Most people seem to be measuring the rate of capital flight by how fast China's foreign currency reserves are depleting in order to defend the Yuan, and there was a massive acceleration in it in late 2015 until the last few months as the CCP imposes stricter and stricter restrictions on moving money out of the country. While I guess they could have done something else with it, I'm not sure what else would cause the disappearance of ~$1 trillion over a single year If it started in 2015 I'd say that it's because that's when the massive stock market crash happened and the subsequent CCP bungling of the entire affair really really spooked everyone, because not only was the end result the CCP basically freezing the market but it also shattered the illusion that the Chinese government was run by brilliant technocratic mandarins that could manage any economic challenges that came their way
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Apr 21, 2017 07:18
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Last year they greatly restricted how much money we're allowed to transfer out of the country per year. It's small enough now that if they restrict it further I'll have to leave the country because I won't be able to send out enough to pay my student loans.
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Apr 21, 2017 07:22
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Remember, the fundamental assumption behind the China boom is that the country is going to continue to liberalize if not its political system than its economy and grow richer and richer so you need to get in now if you want a piece of the huge profits to be made The business community has become far, far more sanguine about that assumption over the past couple years as China moves in the opposite direction and they find themselves getting constantly hosed by Chinese mercantalism.
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Apr 21, 2017 07:31
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just popping in to say that every bullshit thing koreans say and think that has been mentioned over the past few pages has been recounted to me as 100% true by various people at various points during my 10 years there, including and especially people that really ought to know better eg published scholars. It's like you're not quite sure if they are just loving with you sometimes because the claims are so ridiculous that's my story, thanks and god bless
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Apr 21, 2017 07:34
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Yeah I know. There was a time when that wasn't an entirely dumb assumption, things were moving in the right direction in China for a while. It's sad. China becoming a good country would be positive for the world but everyone with any power is loving dead set against it.
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Apr 21, 2017 07:34
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:Based on what Koreans friends and coworkers have told me (and my own, biased observations), Koreans have a bit of an inferiority complex, and it's actually well-deserved in a lot of cases. because of their history of colonization, a lot of native Korean inventions and developments, especially when it comes to technology, are either co-opted by the reigning culture or have simply been forgotten by most of the world. Moveable type, for example, was actually invented by Koreans. However, this feeling of inferiority/having been kicked around naturally elicits a nationalistic response, leading to people finding all sorts of loopholes to claim that Koreans invented everything. The same kind of people who genuinely believed the stuff in GF's post. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.
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Apr 21, 2017 07:56
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Glenn Quebec posted:Oh god. I'm Hong Kong guy now. First thing before I even get my work morning coffee, my boss is like, "Glenn, I know it was an awkward position to be in but you really handled the problem before it became one .... We have a 9:30am call with HK. We will be doing this every Wednesday." Hahahaha Glenn Quebec posted:I'd like to add that this is not my primary job but an additional role I took to be an rear end kiss. Hahahahahahahahaha
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Apr 21, 2017 08:17
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Kharnifex posted:Thank you for taking the time to explain this. No problem! If you ever watch Parts Unknown, there's a very good explanation in the Seoul episode, too. (That episode is soooooo good and it makes me want to go to the jjimjilbang.)
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Apr 21, 2017 08:29
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Grand Fromage posted:First let me make it abundantly clear that even in Korea this is considered nonsense by the majority of people. This is a crazy nationalist fringe thing. However little bits and pieces of it sometimes surface in normal people's beliefs because things get mixed in odd ways in the world. Would you say it's less accepted than Creationism? Soundboz posted:I had a Chinese friend in middle school who swore up and down that China invented pizza so idk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLA6Bk_ivs
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Apr 21, 2017 08:38
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Another unique Korean emotion is jeong, which as has been explained to me is what we would call "friendship". A concept we lack! Actually I blame this on bad translations from the 1800s. The Korean word that they translate as friend is a terrible translation, because the Korean word doesn't carry any of the connotations of friendship. It lacks any suggestion that you like the person, for example. I don't actually think there is a good word in English for it because basically it means like, the group of people that are of your same age that you have spent time with through school, which is all tied up in the Korean Neoconfucian age poo poo. 226 posted:Thanks for this. I'd heard the bit about Inca's being Koreans, but I thought the argument was language "similarities". I'm pretty sure creationism is more widely accepted. Even in Korea. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 08:39
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Grand Fromage posted:Another unique Korean emotion is jeong, which as has been explained to me is what we would call "friendship". A concept we lack! "Situational guangxi"? A lot of people translated "jeong" as "face" to me, but that doesn't seem right.  226 posted:Would you say it's less accepted than Creationism? Considering how many hardcore Christians there are in Korea (who are usually pretty pro-foreigner), I'd say Creationism is more accepted.
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Apr 21, 2017 08:47
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Don't lots of Koreans believe they are the lost tribe of Israel and that Jesus was Korean?
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Apr 21, 2017 09:13
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:Don't lots of Koreans believe they are the lost tribe of Israel and that Jesus was Korean? The one thing Koreans are better at then everyone else is taking Christianity and going completely loving insane cult style with it.
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Apr 21, 2017 09:33
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Grand Fromage posted:Another unique Korean emotion is jeong, which as has been explained to me is what we would call "friendship". A concept we lack! Camaraderie, kind of?
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Apr 21, 2017 10:00
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:Don't lots of Koreans believe they are the lost tribe of Israel and that Jesus was Korean? No, that's Japan? http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/tomb-of-jesus-christ
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Apr 21, 2017 10:08
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According to apocryphal religious writings known as the Takenouchi Documents, it was not Jesus who was crucified on that bloody Golgotha, but in fact it was his younger brother, Isukiri. After being captured by the Romans, it is said that Jesus escaped by switching places with his younger brother, taking only a lock of the Virgin Mary’s hair and one of his brother’s ears while he fled to Japan. hmm
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Apr 21, 2017 10:11
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wondering if this guy maybe doesn't get the whole "redeemer" part of Jesus doesn't really work if he switches his brother on the cross and then runs away and dies an old man
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Apr 21, 2017 10:13
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Always gotta take those extra ears with you.
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Apr 21, 2017 10:13
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Fojar38 posted:wondering if this guy maybe doesn't get the whole "redeemer" part of Jesus Isn't that redeemer part just the story that people made up a few centuries later to make sense of it all?
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Apr 21, 2017 10:14
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:Don't lots of Koreans believe they are the lost tribe of Israel and that Jesus was Korean? Jesus was Korean, yeah. Jews are Koreans so I guess in that respect they're a lost tribe? Jeoh posted:Camaraderie, kind of? That's in the ballpark but that still has a positive connotation. You'll have Koreans say "That person is my friend, I hate him" and mean it because chingu = friend in the dictionary, but chingu doesn't have a specific positive or negative meaning in Korean. My Korean is not great but this is how I learned/friends explained to me. Jeong really should be the translation for friend(ship).
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Apr 21, 2017 10:23
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JaucheCharly posted:Always gotta take those extra ears with you. "Sometimes it feels like Jesus is the only one who really listens to me" "I'm all ears hahahahah"
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Apr 21, 2017 10:25
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