|
That was a really good episode. I think it was heavily implied that Fitzdad was played by Aida right? There was one spot where the camera lingered on his face and he grinned and of course the brainwashy "there's only one person you understand you and you love her right?" discussion. I could kinda see how having his dad around cold change his entire life. I mean drawing from my own experiences I signed up to play sports in middle school even though I hated playing them just cause my dad always watched sports and I thought he'd like me more. Tldr he never bothered coming to watch my games and I gave up on them and never touched sports again outside of gym classes. But I imagine if he would have actually cared then I'd probably have kept playing basketball etc through high school and who knows how different my life would have been, when I'd most surely have different friends and experiences shaping me?
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 06:42 |
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:I could kinda see how having his dad around cold change his entire life. I mean drawing from my own experiences I signed up to play sports in middle school even though I hated playing them just cause my dad always watched sports and I thought he'd like me more. Tldr he never bothered coming to watch my games and I gave up on them and never touched sports again outside of gym classes. But I imagine if he would have actually cared then I'd probably have kept playing basketball etc through high school and who knows how different my life would have been, when I'd most surely have different friends and experiences shaping me?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 06:29
|
|
|
Simmons has to be absolutely livid. "Coulson, you're telling me you went back inside to rescue children that we both know don't actually exist, and that led to Mace for-real dying to save those imaginary children?" Sure, the whole thing is going to be worth the sacrifice, since it turned May to their side and she's the goddamn Cavalry, but Simmons doesn't know that yet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 07:08
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:That was a really good episode. That's definitely the impression I got. In another part, Fitz said something like, "You always make things so clear. What would I do without you?" And his dad replied with, "That's why I'm here." Also, was that his actual, real life father? Because, drat their side views look identical.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 07:28
|
|
|
Fitzdad is that guy from that british tv show about rich people  He's a good actor
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 07:41
|
|
|
He is fitz darth vader
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 07:47
|
|
|
Robot Hobo posted:Simmons has to be absolutely livid. I thought they got pretty dark when they melted down the first Aida and the Radcliffe LMD, because they JUST gave a speech about having a soul. If SHIELD had not done that, there might have been a very different ultimate outcome to Aida's behavior. Big things to consider now is Mac, Mr. "gently caress all AI, gently caress every last one, kill them with axes," is now going to be facing an emotional attachment to a fully realized AI, if virtual, daughter. With LMD technology + AI (which I suspect is what Project Looking Glass is actually intended to be) he could literally have his daughter back, and as they have been hinting, it's more real than they want to admit. I will be utterly shocked if SHIELD shuts down the framework this season. They're becoming attached to the inhabitants; even if they get out of it, I think it would be the height of evil to just burn the place down provided the AI is really self-aware, which is not out of the question given the designer. It seems like they might end up like that one old TNG episode where they let the simulation run on forever to allow the sentient virtual character within to live a full life.. or as I mentioned, introduce the idea of using LMDs to bring people (or copies) back into the real world, like Good Ward. Either way I will be a bit disappointed if after they leave the framework they still go right back to "Yep, burn all AIs, burn all LMDs, gently caress whatever emotions they claim to have" now that they're gotten a ton of evidence to change their POV. Boris Galerkin posted:I think it was heavily implied that Fitzdad was played by Aida right? There was one spot where the camera lingered on his face and he grinned and of course the brainwashy "there's only one person you understand you and you love her right?" discussion. Played by, no. Designed specifically (who knows how his real father might differ, if at all) to keep Fitz in line? Oh yeah. double nine posted:Yeah, while it's sad that Mace is gone, this is pretty much what he wanted to be. A self-sacrificing honest to god superhero. Yep. If they had to kill Mace, I was very satisfied by the way he went out. It brought his entire arc to a perfect close and ironically made me like him even more. I appreciated the irony of May being the one to use the power-juice in the virtual world, fighting an actual inhuman Mace. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Apr 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 09:16
|
|
|
This guy's horrible misunderstanding of who Carl Weathers is made me laugh my rear end off. Thanks for posting this. Though I do think people are a bit quick to jump on the race card when confusing two black people. Nobody gets offended when someone confuses Michael Cera for Jesse Eisenberg, except Jesse Eisenberg.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 09:25
|
|
|
The way to leave the framework is to die in it. Mace flatlined but came back to life the moment Aida removed him from the machine. Scientistman can not use this escape route because his real body died while his mind got stuck in the matrix, that's why Aida killed him in the first place
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 09:54
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:The way to leave the framework is to die in it. Mace flatlined but came back to life the moment Aida removed him from the machine. ? That's...not what happened, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 10:24
|
|
|
I'm looking into my crystall ball and gazing at the future
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 10:33
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:? It could've, they cut away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 10:33
|
|
|
^^^ what if she just reinstalls his brainBlazing Ownager posted:or as I mentioned, introduce the idea of using LMDs to bring people (or copies) back into the real world, like Good Ward. Don't make me dream 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Apr 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 11:21
|
|
|
Blazing Ownager posted:Played by, no. Designed specifically (who knows how his real father might differ, if at all) to keep Fitz in line? Oh yeah. You sure? I was getting the impression that if the Framework was a video game like wow then Aida was directly controlling Fitzdad like an NPC. That last scene where they toast was kind of weird too. Aida standing there in the side as Fitz and Fitzdad toasted was really weird because if she was there why didn't she join them in toasting. With the immediate cut to the real world I was getting the impression that Aida wasn't actually there "in scene" when the toast happened. But I dunno, I gusss we'll find out next week unless they have some weird break again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 11:49
|
|
|
That was such a good episode. Getting Trip back was brilliant (I didn't see BJ Britt's name in the credits so it was pretty unspoiled for me). Losing Mace was completely tragic. I had figured that they would kill someone to show just how high the stakes are, and Mace is the easy way out there. It was a really well-earned death though. Lincoln I didn't give too much of a poo poo about because his character had mostly been irritating anyway, Mace's arc was excellent though. I think I'm going to have to rewatch earlier seasons though because I totally forgot that the Terrigen from S2 which killed Trip was impure. I had also been wondering why it wasn't killing May. Such a great way to end the episode.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 11:51
|
|
|
I don't see any reason why Aida can't be several places at once. It's not like she's got a limited attention span like a human would. As an AI she could be directly controlling half a dozen avatars in the matrix, monitoring the matrix itself, and controlling a few LMD versions of herself in the real world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 11:53
|
|
|
I think it's pretty funny that the framework was supposed to be explicitly for the purposes of functional immortality, but you can still die in it just fine and it kills you in reality too. Good work mate
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 12:21
|
|
|
Yah, but if no one ever died in it...You'd have a world full of immortal fuckers
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
There's an interview Joss Whedon about his Batgirl movie and predictably he voices some issues he had with Marvel, including him disagreeing with the decision to resurrect Coulson for AoS.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 14:06
|
|
|
Good Lord Fisher! posted:I think it's pretty funny that the framework was supposed to be explicitly for the purposes of functional immortality, but you can still die in it just fine and it kills you in reality too. Good work mate Well going by Radcliffe's and Agnes' case, who are dead in the real world but alive in the framework, it seems possible that some version of these "brain-scanned" people can exist forever even if they get killed in the framework; ie like in a video game, they could "respawn", be restored or "resurrected" in some special chamber etc. Also, they could probably be programmed to never die (in the framework) from some horrible disease etc. I think that was how Radcliffe meant "immortality" in the context of the framework. I am not sure what difference it makes that these framework connected agents are alive in the real world, other that it's possible for them to awake in the real world and go "wow that was totally fake and awesome/horrible/life scarring etc". I mean, they don't seem to have any more control or influence on their "avatars" in the framework. Even Daisy and Jemma who hacked in and are aware that that world is fake, don't seem to get any special skills or be able to shortcut their way around things (like spawn stuff they need or teleport or whatever). And their only gadget (to exit the framework) got disabled.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 14:08
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:There's an interview Joss Whedon about his Batgirl movie and predictably he voices some issues he had with Marvel, including him disagreeing with the decision to resurrect Coulson for AoS. I thought it was handled about as well as possible, and it led to a great show, so suck it, Joss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 14:15
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:Yah, but if no one ever died in it...You'd have a world full of immortal fuckers I mean you could say the same thing about the real world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 14:37
|
|
|
Blazing Ownager posted:I will be utterly shocked if SHIELD shuts down the framework this season. They're becoming attached to the inhabitants; even if they get out of it, I think it would be the height of evil to just burn the place down provided the AI is really self-aware, which is not out of the question given the designer. It seems like they might end up like that one old TNG episode where they let the simulation run on forever to allow the sentient virtual character within to live a full life.. or as I mentioned, introduce the idea of using LMDs to bring people (or copies) back into the real world, like Good Ward. Stargate, with it's many alternate universe episodes, had a definite guide to dealing with them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SreTPgurTg&t=158s
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:There's an interview Joss Whedon about his Batgirl movie and predictably he voices some issues he had with Marvel, including him disagreeing with the decision to resurrect Coulson for AoS. I've heard about this interview but can't find it. Is it on-line? Do you have a link?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 15:03
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:There's an interview Joss Whedon about his Batgirl movie and predictably he voices some issues he had with Marvel, including him disagreeing with the decision to resurrect Coulson for AoS. Joss is probably pretty burned out by Marvel with how AOU went. I think its for the best. I don't know what Coulson would be doing in the movies nowadays anyway, but I wouldn't mind him popping over in a flashback in a Netflix series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
Coulson & co would be good stand-ins for story beats in any Marvel TV shows that require government suits showing up, as well as acceptable substitutes if say, if they wanted to adapt any of the parts of Runaways where they have run-ins with superheroes, but can't land any bigger names. Primarily I'm thinking of the end of arc 1 where (spoiled in case anything similar happens in the show) Iron Man and Cap rein in the kids and put them into foster care.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
Huh, looks like Avengers Infinity War and Untitled Avengers Film are no longer simultaneously filming. Wonder why.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 21:29
|
|
|
Jemma's whole "they're just computer programs, they don't matter" thing kind of died the second she saw Mack with Hope. That's when her whole view of this world started to change and get way more complicated. So while, sure, on some level she's probably still all "Mace died for some computer programs" its probably gotten a lot more complicated than that for her. Its a lot easier to argue that in the academic sense that to actually let children die, "real" or not. Phylodox posted:I thought it was handled about as well as possible, and it led to a great show, so suck it, Joss. Joss's entire writing style is based on driving the third act by murdering a beloved character in the second act. If they start resurrecting those dead guys he'll have to write another story or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
Apoplexy posted:Huh, looks like Avengers Infinity War and Untitled Avengers Film are no longer simultaneously filming. Wonder why. They're filming back to back now instead of just together so it's not really much different, they're just finishing up one movie before doing the other instead of doing scenes of each here and there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Jemma's whole "they're just computer programs, they don't matter" thing kind of died the second she saw Mack with Hope. That's when her whole view of this world started to change and get way more complicated. They even had Ward bring it up to really draw attention to it. Yeah, she may still say it's a simulation and it doesn't matter out loud, but she's starting to have serious doubts. Looking forward to see how far they take this and wonder if they will genocide an entire Earth just because it isn't "real".
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
Aleph Null posted:They even had Ward bring it up to really draw attention to it. Yeah, she may still say it's a simulation and it doesn't matter out loud, but she's starting to have serious doubts. Looking forward to see how far they take this and wonder if they will genocide an entire Earth just because it isn't "real". Well, I think the subtext of that scene was that Ward thought Jemma was protecting Mack because he was a father but in reality she was protecting him because he's "real". I think what they're setting up is that sooner or later Ward's going to find out that he's not a "real person" and that's going to lead to some drama. Jemma seems to be intentionally avoiding tipping him off to that and (unless I missed it) didn't identify Mack as one of the "real" ones. But yeah, there was also clearly a new element to things when Jemma talked to Mack about Hope and saw them together. It made everything way more complicated for her reasoning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
Jemma's eventual goal is to shut the framework down. So in some sense she is planning a giant genocide. I don't know if there are actually 7.4 billion npcs around, but it's a significant number. She's justifying it by claiming that they aren't actually human, but I wouldn't blame Ward or anyone else for trying to stop that. Man! Things kinda suck from Ward's perspective. He had a good life with a respectable job and a lovely girlfriend. Then one day, without provocation, she suddenly fears and hates him. Later he finds out that her mind was actually replaced by an Inhuman from another dimension, who wants to destroy his whole universe. In some sense, Daisy already killed Skye. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 23:05
|
|
|
There's definitely going to be a huge thing from Ward, Mack, and others about not shutting it down. My guess is that Jemma basically pushes Ward into betraying SHIELD and working with Madame Hydra in order to preserve his world and his own life. Then Jemma gets to roll her eyes at the irony of her causing Ward to do what he always does.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
I'd really love one sci fi story to not treat advanced computers as either a world destroying skynet or a soul having human-but-different that deserves rights and poo poo. Just once, just to see how it works.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 00:13
|
|
|
Doesn't AMC have like an entire series about that? And there's elements of that in sci-fi everywhere, no? I'm not a big sci fi fan but off the top of my head I know Dark Matter and Legends of Tomorrow both have totally normal AI characters that are just with like rights and poo poo. And like isn't that a thing in Star Wars? And Star Trek? And one of the Avengers?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
Vision trying to be live like a human is a big part of his character, especially in his recent solo series. Star Trek had a whole thing where the holo-doctor have to fight to be recognised as a person. I think Data had to go through it too? In Star Wars, not everyone not everyone treat droids as people. That part in TFA when Rey rescued BB8 was the moment you are supposed to know she's not only the protagonist, but also a good person.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:I think Data had to go through it too? Measure of a Man. One of the episodes where Patrick Stewart said "I'm a Shakespearian actor and you gave me a monologue? I'm gonna monologue the gently caress out of this!"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjuQRCG_sUw And from the same episode, I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eg67jDh2Ts gets at why that tends to come up in shows with AIs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:There's an interview Joss Whedon about his Batgirl movie and predictably he voices some issues he had with Marvel, including him disagreeing with the decision to resurrect Coulson for AoS. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
I am loving this arc, especially this episode. They are doing as much callback porn as I wanted while also keeping the story going instead of just jumping around to "this is all the actors we could get back and the alternate story we made up for them." I would like to see Bobbi and Hunter back and maybe a couple more before the end of the arc, but if this is all we really get then I'm still satisfied. Ward and Tripp being back are going to take up a bit of story space, even more big characters could just interfere with the actual plot arc they have going down outside of a cameo role. They did a great job with the May vs. Mace fight, ever hit really looked like a super strength person hitting another one instead of just regular people fighting. I also had Tripp's return spoiled by the opening credits. Id I were making a show or movie I'd just rather have no opening credits. I don't want to be reminded everyone is an actor on a set in a costume just as I'm trying to get immersed in the show. I didn't mind being spoiled by the credits but it would have been just a little bit better unspoiled. I think it is cool that they aren't just going around waking everyone up by giving them a heartfelt speech about who they really are. Mace, Mac, May, they're still not really 'aware' they are just kind of buying into it because it seems to be maybe true but they're not regaining memories of the real world at all. That's definitely more interesting to watch. It's tragic that Mace basically called Simmons out on not really knowing him, then died. I bet Simmons will feel like she could have gotten him not to throw his life away if she had been able to share some personal details. One of a handful of real people left in this world is dead because she never had a five minute conversation with Mace about his personal life. "I would say we are friends... but I think about you in a friendly way?" is gonna haunt her. I also liked the callback to "He's right behind me, isn't he?" I was one of the many people groaning at that line back when the show was not so great and everyone expected it to be. I have no idea whether this show will get canceled or not but this just so happens to be an awesome arc to go out on if it is. I don't think Aida was "playing" Fitz's dad. He's not just the right kind of hosed up to work with the Framework reality. The Framework reality is a result of how hosed up he is. Fitz's regret is "I wish I had a good relationship with my father" but rather than his father being a different person (like FrameWard because Skye's regret is seemingly that Ward betrayed her, not "I regret loving Ward." She deifnitely misses Lincoln more but in a way she is also satisfied with how their relationship played out because even if it ended in tragedy it was real.) Aida instead implemented Framework Fitz as "who would he have to be to have a good relationship with his dad." "Hey dad, I'm kinda worried." "About a woman?" "Yeah." "You're not seeing someone else, are you?" "Oh no, it's nothing like that. I am just kinda worried because I murdered a woman who might have been innocent." "Ohhhh, jeez Fitz. Who cares? Does that make you feel better? If I just say 'who cares if you murdered someone, you figured it was the right thing to do based on the information you had at the time even if you didn't really have to?'" "Awwww, you're the best, dad!" If Fitz's dad wasn't super messed up then Aida would have likely been satisfied with Fitz having a different sort of role in the framework.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 02:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 06:42 |
|
|
They definitely set up a time when they all come out of the Framework and Mace is there all dead and stuff and they say "uh, whom do we notify? was he married?" and Jemma can step up and repeat what her told her about being from Brooklyn et cetera and they all feel bad for not having gotten to know the guy who really was a hero after all. But not as bad as they feel for what they did to each other/had done to them by each other in the Framework and . . . scene. Then a brief scene in a lab where a blob of gravitonium gets a face and says a single word, and that's the season/show end!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 04:34
|
|
