The democrats are a waste

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The democrats are a waste

Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed.
B	77	25.50%
K	160	52.98%
M	65	21.52%
Total:	229 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

galenanorth: May 19, 2016

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

quote:

In the Clinton run, that problem became such a millstone around the neck of the campaign that staffers began to flirt with the idea of sharing the uninspiring truth with voters. Stumped for months by how to explain why their candidate wanted to be president, Clinton staffers began toying with the idea of seeing how "Because it's her turn" might fly as a public rallying cry.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 05:30

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 10, 2024 20:26

Deadly Ham Sandwich: Aug 19, 2009; Smellrose

Nevvy Z posted:

You mean the one who won as a third party independent? What exactly should they have done that would have gotten the public option? Extraordinary claims and all that

Democrats could have dared to get rid of the the filibuster and threatened to pass it without him, but apparently the filibuster is more sacred than millions of lives.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 05:43

Deadly Ham Sandwich: Aug 19, 2009; Smellrose

Mister Facetious posted:

I heard "debtors prison" is a thing in America. Is that true?

And since slavery is legal if you're in prison...

Debtors prison is still a thing. I think the federal government only throws you in jail if you refuse to pay your taxes. City and county courts across America brazenly throw people in jail for bullshit onerous fines because it an easy way to raise money.

Deadly Ham Sandwich fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Apr 21, 2017

# ? Apr 21, 2017 05:47

Grognan: Jan 23, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Ytlaya posted:

Yeah, this is basically the mindset of like 90% of the people I went to college with who now have lucrative jobs in finance, consulting, etc. They usually know on an intellectual level that some people live in poverty, but they don't understand just how many people and how unusually high their quality of life is relative to the average American (I think I mentioned in some other thread how at least several people thought ~60k was a normal starting salary for a young adult to make and anything below that was strangely low). In the case of liberals, they don't have malicious intentions, but they are dangerously naive and ignorant.

Another anecdote is this friend of mine who didn't go to an elite school but ended up managing to get a good job with a firm that lobbies the government on the behalf of the financial industry. After working there for a while her views quickly changed to basically assuming that financial professionals knew what they're talking about and everyone who criticizes them clearly doesn't understand the big picture. And it's understandable how this happens; when you know a bunch of people who seem competent and nice and work in a particular field, you'll naturally be biased in favor of them (and against the people who disagree, since it's easy to stereotype them if you don't know them in person).

I was sort of like a reverse version of her. I majored in finance and went to parties with JPMorgan Chase employees and stuff while in school (because of my friend who worked there) and thought "wow these people are so intelligent" and basically took the pro-finance side in discussions with leftists (in my defense, this was before the financial crisis). After moving back to Tennessee to work as a programmer at a state university (in a research setting), I quickly realized that the people I knew from NYC weren't exceptionally intelligent; they were just very good at appearing "professional" and competent due to their upbringing. And, like, I'm sure they were competent in many ways, but they also had a strong bias in favor of the industry they worked for and most of their arguments were just dressed up versions of "this stuff is complex, you should leave it to the professionals."

Though there was this one nice surprise where this Indian dude who works at an investment bank (forget which one) who I thought was a Republican turned out to be a socialist.

Well christ, I guess you can at least see where I am coming from with the burning hatred towards people that cannot understand how the lessers live. Doubly so with anyone that is from NYC.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 06:54

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

So are you trying to claim that a single primary challenger who campaigned on her behalf after the primary was somehow more damaging than the entire party of the opposition candidate making GBS threads all over their own candidate at every opportunity?

Lol, hillarites are the babies they wish Trump to be so badly.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 07:13

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

galenanorth posted:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

quote:

This traced back to 2008, a failed run that the Clintons had concluded was due to the disloyalty and treachery of staff and other Democrats. After that race, Hillary had aides create "loyalty scores" (from one for most loyal, to seven for most treacherous) for members of Congress. Bill Clinton since 2008 had "campaigned against some of the sevens" to "help knock them out of office," apparently to purify the Dem ranks heading into 2016.

This is rather telling.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 07:57

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

Unity!

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:00

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

FuriousxGeorge posted:

Unity!

we've got to unify! unify behind the woman who doesn't know why she's running other than the pursuit of raw power! unify with clueless kleptocrats who will work hand in hand with republicans to gut social security and tear apart our social safety net

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:12

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Falstaff posted:

This is rather telling.

If anything the left-wing by playing "nice" and trying to work with the rest of the Democratic Party at any cost are putting themselves at a disadvantage. The Democratic Party and its leadership doesn't want a strong left-wing, they want to strangle it in the crib.

I rather see Bernie delete his email list rather than turn it to the DNC.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:21

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Falstaff posted:

This is rather telling.

But wait, I thought that ideological purges is what the bad lefties want???

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:29

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Cerebral Bore posted:

But wait, I thought that ideological purges is what the bad lefties want???

It is, but this is a loyalty purge. Totally different thing, see.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:32

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Falstaff posted:

It is, but this is a loyalty purge. Totally different thing, see.

Ah, naturally. As we all know the pragmatic and sensible thing to do is to swear eternal loyalty to the Clintons, unlike those naive leftists with their ~principles~

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:44

galenanorth: May 19, 2016

This can't be right, because it takes away from the talking point that Clinton won over Democrats by building a network of trust and earned favors from superdelegates by campaigning for them. They're supposed to only wield the "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" carrot side of networking politics, not the "purify the party of people that aren't loyal to insiders" stick.

galenanorth fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Apr 21, 2017

# ? Apr 21, 2017 08:52

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Cerebral Bore posted:

But wait, I thought that ideological purges is what the bad lefties want???

Granted, Hillary maybe just not personally like some of them, also Hillary seems to have actually put it into action complete with a number scale.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 10:41

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

It's going to be funny if the centrists who are always going after us for wanting the party have some sort of purity will defend this.

Oh and I loved this.

Matt Taibbi posted:

The Clinton campaign was convinced that Obama won in 2008 not because he was a better candidate, or buoyed by an electorate that was disgusted with the Iraq War. Obama won, they believed, because he had a better campaign operation � i.e., better Washingtonian puppeteers. In The Right Stuff terms, Obama's Germans were better than Hillary's Germans.

They were determined not to make the same mistake in 2016. Here, the thought process of campaign chief Robby Mook is described:

"Mook knew that Hillary viewed almost every early decision through a 2008 lens: she thought almost everything her own campaign had done was flawed and everything Obama's had done was pristine."

Since Obama had spent efficiently and Hillary in 2008 had not, this led to spending cutbacks in the 2016 race in crucial areas, including the hiring of outreach staff in states like Michigan. This led to a string of similarly insane self-defeating decisions. As the book puts it, the "obsession with efficiency had come at the cost of broad voter contact in states that would become important battlegrounds."

These dumb fucks couldn't accept Obama was just more charismatic. :lol:

# ? Apr 21, 2017 10:48

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Crowsbeak posted:

It's going to be funny if the centrists who are always going after us for wanting the party have some sort of purity will defend this.

Oh and I loved this.

These dumb fucks couldn't accept Obama was just more charismatic. .

what part of spending megabux in california is efficient hillary :confused:

# ? Apr 21, 2017 10:56

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Crowsbeak posted:

It's going to be funny if the centrists who are always going after us for wanting the party have some sort of purity will defend this.

It's like we're in this weird pattern where a bunch of the remaining centrists turn up and start yelling about bad thing that the left wants or believes, and a while after that it inevitably turns out that their own Abuela both pioneered said bad thing and went much further with it than anybody ITT has ever advocated.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 11:14

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

Condiv posted:

what part of spending megabux in california is efficient hillary

Mook was very proud that the campaign was going to end up in the black at the end.

Moneyball makes sense when money is a problem, and you need to get maximum value for dollar. Money was not a problem for the Hillary campaign.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 11:28

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

Democrats could have dared to get rid of the the filibuster and threatened to pass it without him, but apparently the filibuster is more sacred than millions of lives.

That's certainly a new take I haven't heard. I'm not sure it's a great plan though. Please, persuade me.

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Apr 21, 2017

# ? Apr 21, 2017 13:40

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Nevvy Z posted:

That's certainly a new take I haven't heard. I'm not sure it's a great plan though. Please, persuade me.

Could we also have your comments on the above revalations for how the Clinton campaign was run?

# ? Apr 21, 2017 14:44

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

Josef bugman posted:

Could we also have your comments on the above revalations for how the Clinton campaign was run?

If you like. Clinton campaign dumb as gently caress. Still would have been better than president trump. :smith:

# ? Apr 21, 2017 14:47

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Nevvy Z posted:

That's certainly a new take I haven't heard. I'm not sure it's a great plan though. Please, persuade me.

Persuade you that what? If removing the filibuster got us medicare for all we should have done it? How much do you like having the working poor being unable to have access to medical care?

Hell, the 14 trillion dollar coin should have been printed too (assuming Obama actually wanted to deal with our retarded budget issues) but instead Obama put forth the grand bargain. lmao.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 15:17

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

St. Abuela

quote:

�A lot of times, Hillary would snap her fingers and go, �Gum.� And Huma would fetch it.� Abedin took her duties so seriously, the source recalled, that when she learned that Clinton had once carried her own bag up a flight of stairs in her aide�s absence, Abedin nearly burst into tears.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 15:24

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Every time I see the name Huma Abedin all I can think of is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zKKVOwaDBY

Questionable judgement seems to kinda be her thing.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 15:24

fsif: Jul 18, 2003

shrike82 posted:

St. Abuela

Sounds legit.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 15:32

fsif: Jul 18, 2003

Just finished this bad boy, gotta tell you, sure hope they make pantsuits in orange.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 15:34

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

shrike82 posted:

St. Abuela

If true this is really sad.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 15:45

Hail Mr. Satan!: Oct 3, 2009; by zen death robot

Crowsbeak posted:

Campaign cheapo snip

Lol there's a poster in Cspam who worked with the campaign that defends their decision to not give out lawn signs because the computer said it doesn't make that much of a difference.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 16:38

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!: May 31, 2006

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Lol there's a poster in Cspam who worked with the campaign that defends their decision to not give out lawn signs because the computer said it doesn't make that much of a difference.

that ain't just a thing the computer says, that's a thing that's been known and measured for more than a decade at this point. you hand out signs exclusively as make-work, because the only thing they are better than is literally telling volunteers to gently caress off, you have no use for their trying to volunteer. OFA had Obama signs, sure, but any day you were being told to put up signs was a day they had nothing for you to do but still wanted you to feel useful.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 16:59

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009; Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

Oops guys, we were wrong, turns out Bernie stabbed Clinton in the back:

quote:

�The election is over. Move on.� �Stop dividing the party.� �We have to unite.�
If you�re as sick of hearing this gaslighting bullshit as I am, feel free to adapt my own preferred response as needed:
�Yes, I agree. We need to do everything we can to stand together against a corrupt rape-apologist con man who hides his tax returns, whines about rigged elections, benefitted from the the DNC hack, panders to the gun lobby, has shadowy ties to Russia and refuses to accept the indignity of losing to a woman by milions of votes. Oh, you thought I meant Trump?�
(�gently caress off� also works pretty well.)
Let�s get something straight: Dems are not �divided.� We don�t have an �identity crisis.� What we have is an extremist fringe faction, just like the other side has. The GOP�s biggest mistake was giving their lunatic fringe a seat at their table. Now it�s taken over the asylum. At least we could pass our own health care bill.
We don�t need to welcome or embrace or fellate our own version of the Freedom Caucus. We need to kick them to the loving curb.
A disturbing number of well-meaning progressives have fallen for the Jedi mind trick of believing it is somehow bad form to criticize the guy who�s spent the last two years ― make that the last 40 years ― tearing down the Democratic party, who did everything he could to harm Clinton and helped hand victory to Trump, who continues to make the cable network rounds to share his vision of burning the entire system to the ground and building a golden statue of himself upon the ashes.

Like, I realize this writer is an outlier among Clinton apologists, but holy poo poo folks.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 18:55

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

Majorian posted:

Oops guys, we were wrong, turns out Bernie stabbed Clinton in the back:

Like, I realize this writer is an outlier among Clinton apologists, but holy poo poo folks.

gently caress Bernie loving Sanders

-a freelance academic and wordsmith

# ? Apr 21, 2017 18:59

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

At least she got this one right
https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/im-totally-unqualified-to-claim-expertise-in-any-area-a505ec6d75ca

(the headline, didn't read)

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:00

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

How could Bernie Sanders, the most popular politician, get fewer votes than Hillary, who nobody likes other than the feckless DNC, which has proven themselves to be incapable of winning elections?

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:03

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009; Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

How could Bernie Sanders, the most popular politician, get fewer votes than Hillary, who nobody likes other than the feckless DNC, which has proven themselves to be incapable of winning elections?

Name recognition, a bigger warchest, better campaign staff that was organized earlier, years of making inroads into minority voter communities, and a better understanding of the nomination rules.

Also the fact that she was running to get the nomination from the beginning, whereas I don't think Sanders initially planned to run a serious challenge.

Also-also, Sanders' popularity wasn't as high then as it is now.

Also-also-also, this post of your seems like a clumsy deflection from the unbelievable terribleness of that piece.

e:

Guys I don't see how anyone could believe that hardcore Clinton supporters learned the wrong lesson from this.

Majorian fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 21, 2017

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:10

Maarek: Jun 9, 2002; Your silence only incriminates you further.

Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America, not necessarily the most popular politician among the Democratic primary electorate.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:13

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Nevvy Z posted:

If you like. Clinton campaign dumb as gently caress. Still would have been better than president trump.

I agree, but it implies a lot about the current set up of the wider democrat machinery that may need change. I mean from an outsiders perspective only.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:14

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

I don't think that the war chest made a difference given how many states Sanders outspent in only to lose

WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Apr 21, 2017

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:15

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

fsif posted:

Just finished this bad boy, gotta tell you, sure hope they make pantsuits in orange.

But they do. Also :lol:

Clintonites need to protect their golden family when it comes out that their such shitheads.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:18

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

Sanders did not have an amazing campaign either but i think that comes down to his inexperience in this sort of thing as well as that of his staff.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:18

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 10, 2024 20:26

Maarek: Jun 9, 2002; Your silence only incriminates you further.

I know some people are convinced that Clinton won the primary by cheating, but that's not true at all. While they definitely stacked the deck as much as they could, at the end of the day Hillary was/is massively popular among registered Democrats and those are the people who vote in a primary. The problem was that she was much less popular with everyone else, while her primary opponent was more universally liked or at least tolerated.

During times of polarization the primaries aren't necessarily competitions that reward the most electable candidate, something people on this forum understood (and gleefully mocked) for the last 8 years.

# ? Apr 21, 2017 19:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The democrats are a waste

«‹›483 »