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Can the Democratic party recover from Hillary "Salt the Earth" Clinton or will we see multiple splinter factions and the eventual rise of a proper 3rd party?
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Apr 21, 2017 19:24
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Pawl posted:Can the Democratic party recover from Hillary "Salt the Earth" Clinton or will we see multiple splinter factions and the eventual rise of a proper 3rd party? Right now, the Republicans are making it easy for the Democrats to remain relevant, which means they're not going to feel any pressure to change. How much this fucks the Dems over remains to be seen.
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Apr 21, 2017 19:26
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NomChompsky posted:Wowee that's an awfully poo poo understanding of history and things. You're right. The Basil Rathbone Holmes movies were pretty dope.
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Apr 21, 2017 19:26
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skasion posted:Gropin' Joe didn't miss the nomination because the DNC has a bias against white guys (lol), it's because he wasn't initially interested and by the time he got interested Hillary had vacuumed up all the talent and the donors -- in large part because she wanted to tie them to her in the event of another heavy hitter entering the primary. its also because his son died and he is getting up there too. i also like to think biden is one of the smart ones and realizes the DNC is going down the shitter and will probably eventually break apart. The Landstander posted:My favorite needless media drive by was that Ken Bone guy when they found his old weird Reddit posts. that. that weird woke bullshit where they needed to crucify the poor simp because he liked asses on women. why does it matter? he isnt into kids or anything illigal, he just has a anal fetish. like when did being woke and "progressive" mean being a weird rear end in a top hat prude about relativly normal poo poo but fine hardcore alternative poo poo. Sebastien Lenorman posted:Oh god i forgot about ken bone! pretty much. Gammatron 64 posted:It's really, really bad. Our country is so divided that people can't even talk to each other anymore and our society can barely function. How many times did the government shut down again last administration? this. basically it started on the right during Nixon and evolved with Reagan and W. a bunch of kids who were in hard right families grew up and became leftist or liberal but kept the cultural memes of the right. so now you have a ton of rich woke kids in every field and medium loving poo poo up and driving the left into the ground, their retardation mixed with kids growing up on /pol/, other poo poo like that and poo poo education birthed the alt right.
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Apr 21, 2017 19:34
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Pawl posted:Can the Democratic party recover from Hillary "Salt the Earth" Clinton or will we see multiple splinter factions and the eventual rise of a proper 3rd party? the Republicans were already going through everything the Democrats are now but worse and that just culminated in a ton of Bushies defecting to Hillary during the election, we're probably just looking at a general realignment into the Nativist and Woke Corporatism parties with a few people shuffling about to find their new niche. America's hundred-odd progressives will continue to own the poo poo out of each other on Twitter and occasionally join a protest. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 19:34
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In much the same way that the New deal/Roosevelt political order that drove the US through to the Carter administration failed and fell apart, Trump might just be the final defender of that Reagan order that replaced it. People were frustrated at the end of the 70s because neither party was offering up anything different or something they thought would benefit them any longer, Reagan changed that. Whoever won this election was going to find themselves quickly becoming unpopular and facing a problem that really transcends what either party can offer given their current wisdom.
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Apr 21, 2017 19:45
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quote:A week before [Bill] hit the trail, Donald Trump tweeted, “Hillary Clinton has announced that she is letting her husband out to campaign but HE’S DEMONSTRATED A PENCHANT FOR SEXISM, so inappropriate!” Trump argued that Hillary’s tolerance of Bill, after his affair with Monica Lewinsky and allegations of sexual misconduct against several other women, made her the candidate who was worse for women. Like Trump, Bill sometimes talked about women in less-than-respectful terms—but he tended to do so in private settings. In June 2014, as Bill was getting ready to speak at a Jefferson-Jackson dinner in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, his chief of staff, Tina Flournoy, mentioned to him and a small group of his aides that she was going to see the Rolling Stones in Europe.
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Apr 21, 2017 19:48
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Why would you offer that, Bill?
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Apr 21, 2017 19:51
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Isn't there anyone around to go "Dude, Bill, gross" or what
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Apr 21, 2017 19:54
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https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/gently caress-bernie-loving-sanders-fe49195c97cd i dont think they have learned poo poo. NomChompsky posted:In much the same way that the New deal/Roosevelt political order that drove the US through to the Carter administration failed and fell apart, Trump might just be the final defender of that Reagan order that replaced it. People were frustrated at the end of the 70s because neither party was offering up anything different or something they thought would benefit them any longer, Reagan changed that. Whoever won this election was going to find themselves quickly becoming unpopular and facing a problem that really transcends what either party can offer given their current wisdom. yeah. as much as i think the DNC is hosed. I think the GOP is too. its clear they have no loving idea what to do and they cant even pass their poo poo health plan that killes disabled people and poors because its not evil enough for the freedom caucus. Trump while cunning isnt as smart as he pretends to be and may have dementia and he fucks up constantly and not even in the quiet west wing bullshit style of obama. He legit just fucks up and ruins things and gets people killed, plus he is unsubtle as gently caress and might have been in the pocket of putin because he was/is a greedy oval office and wanted to enrich his mongo family and will probably start a war. his cabinet is full of corrupt pieces of poo poo who openly talk about how letting people die of famine is good, insane christian fundies or dumb ethno nationalists and warmongers. and the house is full of retards/racists/tea partiers. the GOP is dying and the only reason they are still alive is because the poor whites/working class are desperately hoping trump will save them(because the DNC sure as gently caress won't) trump is the last gamble of the GOP and its blowing up in their faces.
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Apr 21, 2017 19:55
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VikingSkull posted:Please clap is the funniest political statement of our age Oh man I had vaguely good memories of Jeb as governor so when I saw he was running I was sure too but lol goddamn that poor man. Of all the bushes he seems like the most likable and least lovely and he was a good governor so I can't help but feel bad for him
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Apr 21, 2017 20:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/gently caress-bernie-loving-sanders-fe49195c97cd quote:Val Perry Rendel 
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Apr 21, 2017 20:01
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/gently caress-bernie-loving-sanders-fe49195c97cd People are really taking for granted that Hillary would have been able to get anything done. It's clear now that the tea party people, while originally coming out against anything Obama, are actually not interested in negotiating or cooperating with anyone, even a republican president with a republican dominated congress. The GOP couldn't even make sure that one of the candidates they wanted to win could actually do it. This is because they can no longer predict voter behavior. Same thing with the democrats, who had to basically cheat to make sure the establishment candidate got it. It's not a failure in polling necessarily, it's a failure for the parties themselves to factor in the actual concerns of the voters outside of their established party-thought and framework. This is because the political wisdom that has driven them for the last 37 years doesn't hold up anymore. The political order is failing because it no longer serves the interest of voters. Both parties are going to have to evolve to adapt to this. A good comparison of this kind of failure of institutional wisdom that is unrelated is what intelligence communities thought about terrorism during and at the end of the Cold War. They all thought that terrorism for the most part was an offshoot of the cold war itself and once all these proxy conflicts ended and the USSR threw in the towel it would all simmer down. Nope! Turns out they were wrong, and the subsequent cutting of funding and little contests they had with each other for ten years over who could keep the most secrets from one another so they could get budget bumps led to the greatest terrorist attack in history occurring on our very soil. Good job, fellas. NomChompsky fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 20:01
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T.S. Smelliot posted:Oh man I had vaguely good memories of Jeb as governor so when I saw he was running I was sure too but lol goddamn that poor man. "I want to shame single mothers." -The Most Likeable and Least lovely Bush.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:04
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yeah pretty much. we are the dumb gently caress moral majority now, at least until the next big school shooting with high casualties, then trump and the NRA will rant about movies and games and comic books, then it will be both sides. loving hate that IDpol culture war bullshit. NomChompsky posted:People are really taking for granted that Hillary would have been able to get anything done. It's clear now that the tea party people, while originally coming out against anything Obama, are actually not interested in negotiating or cooperating with anyone, even a republican president with a republican dominated congress. The GOP couldn't even make sure that one of the candidates they wanted to win could actually do it. This is because they can no longer predict voter behavior. Same thing with the democrats, who had to basically cheat to make sure the establishment candidate got it. It's not a failure in polling necessarily, it's a failure for the parties themselves to factor in the actual concerns of the voters outside of their established party-thought and framework. This is because the political wisdom that has driven them for the last 37 years doesn't hold up anymore. The political order is failing because it no longer serves the interest of voters. Both parties are going to have to evolve to adapt to this. she wouldn't have gotten poo poo done and i am sure the GOP would have tried to impeach her like 20 times by now, then trump or a smarter version of him or loving ted cruz would have won 2020. i kinda view trump winning as "good" because it will accelerate the GOPs eventual death and maybe the DNC rebuilding.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:05
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Maybe people aren't sick of partisanship, theyre just sick of how terrible their parties are?
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Apr 21, 2017 20:05
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Jonas Albrecht posted:"I want to shame single mothers." Probably beats out "It's time to bomb Saddam" and "It's time to bomb Saddam Part Two: Electric Boogaloo" tbf
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Apr 21, 2017 20:07
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I think there's two kinds of partisanship that are really causing problems, but they have to be looked at separately. The first is partisanship within the government, which is mostly a result of gerrymandering. Why should we bother working together when we're all getting paid mad bank by special interests already and there's no goddamn way most of us are going to lose our seats? The other kind of partisanship is the kind that is taking place in the public dialogue, and I think that has more to do with the political landscape, and the priorities of the traditional "left and right" shifting drastically, but with no real political force to accommodate it. So it just ends up with people screaming at one another on the internet and elsewhere.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:09
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In your analyses, always remember this: Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the Gilded Age. quote:On August 23, 1971, prior to accepting Nixon's nomination to the Supreme Court, Powell was commissioned by his neighbor, Eugene B. Sydnor Jr., a close friend and education director of the US Chamber of Commerce, to write a confidential memorandum titled "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System," an anti-Communist, anti-New Deal blueprint for conservative business interests to retake America for the chamber.[13][14] It was based in part on Powell's reaction to the work of activist Ralph Nader, whose 1965 exposé on General Motors, "Unsafe at Any Speed," put a focus on the auto industry putting profit ahead of safety, which triggered the American consumer movement. Powell saw it as an undermining of Americans' faith in enterprise and another step in the slippery slope of socialism. [...] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum Well-functioning government is mutually exclusive with their agenda.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:15
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Accretionist posted:In your analyses, always remember this: Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the Gilded Age. i mean, we are already in the gilded age except no worker revoltes/protests. big leaps in science, poo poo politics, mixed bag progressives and lovely bullshit race "science".
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Apr 21, 2017 20:20
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Yes, accretionist. I agree that you need help and we will find a way! But we also need to roll back the New Deal and recreate the Gilded Age.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:20
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Sorry, I've just been told that I don't seem authentic. Apparently telling you I'll help you while also steadfastly outlining all the things I will do that will actively hurt you is undermining my credibility? Will this help? *dabs and nae naes out of thread*
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Apr 21, 2017 20:22
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/gently caress-bernie-loving-sanders-fe49195c97cd for someone who calls themselves a "wordsmith" (lmao) it seems odd they can't be bothered to spellcheck their stupid loving blog post
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Apr 21, 2017 20:22
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Oh wait, did Hillary ever actually even say she'd help coal miners and millennials?
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Apr 21, 2017 20:23
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Accretionist posted:In your analyses, always remember this: Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the Gilded Age. They're not plotting on bringing the Gilded Age back, they succeeded in doing it decades ago
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Apr 21, 2017 20:26
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poisonpill posted:Oh wait, did Hillary ever actually even say she'd help coal miners and millennials? She tried to realtalk but it just made it even worse.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:27
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I liked the part where she compared leftists to the 9/11 hijackers.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:27
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poisonpill posted:Oh wait, did Hillary ever actually even say she'd help coal miners and millennials? She did say that Trump's economics were "trickle down ON STEROIDS!!!" which is fine and good if you're a person who understands what that means, or how that economic system hurts the middle class, or anything really about economics at all. But most people really only respond to "I will help you because you are suffering" at best and at worst "THE JOB CREATORS LOVE YOU AND SOMEDAY YOU MIGHT ASCEND TO BE ONE YOURSELF, TEE HEE" Unfortunately, Trump said the latter two things at the same time.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:29
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However, Hillary did have hot sauce in her purse, which really appealed to the urban vot--hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa
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Apr 21, 2017 20:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean, we are already in the gilded age except no worker revoltes/protests. big leaps in science, poo poo politics, mixed bag progressives and lovely bullshit race "science". Gammatron 64 posted:They're not plotting on bringing the Gilded Age back, they succeeded in doing it decades ago Just don't forget how much more they can take away:
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Apr 21, 2017 20:32
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Gammatron 64 posted:It's really, really bad. Our country is so divided that people can't even talk to each other anymore and our society can barely function. How many times did the government shut down again last administration? I have to scroll past everything on FB now. Memes from my lefty friends about how christian white men are all creepy rapists, memes from my righty friends about how atheists want to make anime real.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:32
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NomChompsky posted:In much the same way that the New deal/Roosevelt political order that drove the US through to the Carter administration failed and fell apart, Trump might just be the final defender of that Reagan order that replaced it. People were frustrated at the end of the 70s because neither party was offering up anything different or something they thought would benefit them any longer, Reagan changed that. Whoever won this election was going to find themselves quickly becoming unpopular and facing a problem that really transcends what either party can offer given their current wisdom. Yeah I think this is exactly right. Stephen Skowroneks' "Presidents in Political Time" gives a framework for how this works, and Trump is a classic disjunctive president. An outsider to the system, running to uphold the values of a vision of America which doesn't actually make sense anymore, immediately facing internal divisions from his own party, it's all there. It's also why - and you have to ignore some issues of personal character for this - Obama's presidential equivalent in the New Deal era was probably Richard Nixon. The reason Nixon did stuff like the EPA wasn't out of the goodness of his heart (lol), it was because the New Deal consensus was still strong in Congress and he wanted to secure his own power. Now, the trick is not winding up in the nativist vs. woke corporatist paradigm mentioned above, but we probably will. =(
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Apr 21, 2017 20:33
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NomChompsky posted:She did say that Trump's economics were "trickle down ON STEROIDS!!!" which is fine and good if you're a person who understands what that means, or how that economic system hurts the middle class, or anything really about economics at all. it was basically a more awkward, stilted version of pointing at Trump during the debate and shouting "This man is a REPUBLICAN!!!"
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Apr 21, 2017 20:33
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I want to propose a better "Fight Song" for this topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2cWDCBS6Sw Frequently derided as the nu-metallest, buttest of the buttrock out there, this song still applies. Not because of the message, but because of where it's known from, the scene in Godzilla Final Wars in which Godzilla effortlessly destroys Zilla. One of them is a monster. He's always been a monster, he never pretended to be anything but a monster, and even if you hate or fear him you know that he's exactly who he claims to be. The other one is also a monster, but he's a soulless corporate creation that nobody wanted around even when he was new, and now with hindsight why the gently caress did he even exist much less show up in the modern era? The precise symbolism of the relationship between these two monsters and the American election will be left as an exercise for the reader.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:35
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The shame is I bet Clinton could have run successfully on a totally Anti-Trump platform, she just chose the wrong things to highlight. Playing up Trump the con man, Trump the rear end in a top hat boss, Trump the rich, out of touch piece of poo poo who is using his voters only to gently caress them over once he's in power. They literally did this with stunning success to a boring Mormon dad 4 years prior. Here you have the embodiment of unchecked capitalist privilege and excess and you went with... Dangerous Donald?
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Apr 21, 2017 20:37
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Accretionist posted:Just don't forget how much more they can take away: the EPA is gonna get gutted as are public education. depends on the National park.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:36
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But Rocks Hurt Head posted:The shame is I bet Clinton could have run successfully on a totally Anti-Trump platform, she just chose the wrong things to highlight. Playing up Trump the con man, Trump the rear end in a top hat boss, Trump the rich, out of touch piece of poo poo who is using his voters only to gently caress them over once he's in power. how the gently caress is Clinton going to run against anyone on any of these things
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Apr 21, 2017 20:38
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Accretionist posted:In your analyses, always remember this: Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the Gilded Age. i can see why big capital was opposed to the new deal 
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Apr 21, 2017 20:36
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Accretionist posted:Just don't forget how much more they can take away: Yeah but who needs that poo poo anyway. Back in my day... The Landstander posted:Yeah I think this is exactly right. Stephen Skowroneks' "Presidents in Political Time" gives a framework for how this works, and Trump is a classic disjunctive president. An outsider to the system, running to uphold the values of a vision of America which doesn't actually make sense anymore, immediately facing internal divisions from his own party, it's all there. I actually was channeling Skowronek there but didn't wanna name drop him because I've found that gets some goons all huffy and I get accused of snobbery. But yeah, Trump might be a disjunctive president. If he's an articulator, I don't know what the gently caress that even says about the Reagan order. That it's indestructible? That it's already been destroyed but is now a phantom? poo poo. I don't really know what the new political order is going to look like. There's every bit a chance that the new "left" portion of it is more economically in line with Sanders types, and the right wing becoming a nationalist force that champions protectionism and isolationism. The GOP is still trying to be hawkish while their supporters either think "Let's either kill everyone 'over there' or just gently caress off and let them kill each other, why are you gonna RAISE MY TAXES to help some blah blah blah blah" you get the point. Whereas the left is becoming weirdly interventionist in the sense that some of them are starting to think we can actually help people somehow, and ourselves at the same time! The gently caress? Also good on you for reading Good Books. If you ever wanna talk about Good Books let's do that poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2017 20:39
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spacetoaster posted:I have to scroll past everything on FB now. Memes from my lefty friends about how christian white men are all creepy rapists, memes from my righty friends about how atheists want to make anime real. Nazi frogs to the right So here I am stuck in the centre with goons
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Apr 21, 2017 20:39
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