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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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shrike82 posted:democrat.txt Hahahaha jesus christ there is literally nothing you can say or do that's stupid enough to get you kicked out of the liberal pundit elite once you've made it there
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Apr 22, 2017 20:41
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Focusing on individual votes is the definition of missing the forest for the trees. Who cares how any one individual voted? To win elections you focus on groups of people. So stop giving a gently caress about if any one goon voted for this or that.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:48
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SSNeoman posted:You might as well burned your ballet for all the good it did. Why would I burn a ballet?
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Apr 22, 2017 20:51
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Because those people can pirouette better than you, and it makes you jealous. So you'll show them all.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:54
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Ytlaya posted:To be fair, who you vote for President in a solid blue or red state really doesn't matter (where "solid" = virtually zero chance of becoming a swing state). Driving the popular vote numbers down without actually changing the results could be viewed as a reasonable way to protest the current situation without actually aiding folks like Trump. Call it what you want, either way it's irrelevant. The argument was that if the DNC overturned the popular vote and selected Bernie Sanders, all Clinton voters would fall in line because Trump is so bad that we don't have to worry about people Clearly this is not the case, it is actually easy for people who don't like what happened in the primary to rationalize a protest vote to "send a message" or tell themselves "my vote doesn't matter because everyone else in my state will do it right so I don't I have to" instead of helping to stop the Republican. For instance: NewForumSoftware posted:
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Apr 22, 2017 20:57
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Falstaff posted:Because those people can pirouette better than you, and it makes you jealous. [nods knowingly] mhmm mhmm
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Apr 22, 2017 20:57
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Peanut President posted:Why would I burn a ballet? makes the nutcracker that much more exciting im not fixing the typo btw NewForumSoftware posted:What if these are the same thing? Then you're an rear end in a top hat. And that's fine. But own it. There's no morality involved when you knowingly voting third party just to feel good, you're doing it out of selfish reasons.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:06
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Third party voters have already heard every argument against third party voting as a concept. They are generally stubborn people. If you feel you need their vote, you have to answer their actual concerns about your candidate and you need to do better than lesser of two evils. For the most part though, I think you are better off trying to appeal to people who are sympathetic to your candidate already but not motivated to get out and vote. These people outnumber winnable third party voters and they don't already hate you. FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 22:24
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SSNeoman posted:In the same post: You're confusing conscience (a personal moral decision process) with a partisan societal expectation to accept the status quo of a failed system.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:25
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There wasn't really any real way of avoiding Clinton as a candidate.The Democratic establishment and Dem voters embraced her candidacy. Basically everything people said was happening in the Republican primaries, was what happened in the Democratic ones.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:30
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Third party voters have already heard every argument against third party voting as a concept. They are generally stubborn people. If you feel you need their vote, you have to answer their actual concerns about your candidate and you need to do better than lesser of two evils. For the most part though, I think you are better off trying to appeal to people who are sympathetic to your candidate already but not motivated to get out and vote. I don't disagree. I just hate how smug and sanctimonious they sound. Gz bro, you did the equivalent of sitting with your thumb up your rear end during the election. Nothing to be proud of. Mister Facetious posted:You're confusing conscience (a personal moral decision process) with a partisan societal expectation to accept the status quo of a failed system. Sociopolitical expectation, not partisan. And I'm not confusing the two, the third party voters are. Cry for change of the system, poo poo I'll even support you. But when it comes time to elect people, and this failed system is still in use, not using it correctly is foolish. Not using it correctly while knowing the correct way to use it, is malicious. And again, that's fine. But own it.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:36
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Nothing to be proud of voting for Hillary or Trump either. You gonna do a happy dance because you elected someone who voted for a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people to find imaginary WMD because that clever W tricked her into it? Oh wait, you didn't even elect her.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:40
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SSNeoman posted:I don't disagree. I just hate how smug and sanctimonious they sound. Gz bro, you did the equivalent of sitting with your thumb up your rear end during the election. Nothing to be proud of. If you don't vote against the system there's no incentive for it to change. The DNC should be asking itself why its coalition of white collar professionals can no longer entice the voting block of the working class except through fear baiting of the Other, and failing even then. Hint: it isn't the fault of the poors. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 22:43
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SSNeoman posted:I don't disagree. I just hate how smug and sanctimonious they sound. Gz bro, you did the equivalent of sitting with your thumb up your rear end during the election. Nothing to be proud of. Who's proud of it? Ya'll brought it up because somehow you've confused yourself into thinking Democratic votes in blue states matter
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Apr 22, 2017 22:45
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voting is good, on the same magnitude of goodness as picking up a little piece of trash on the street or giving ur change to a beggar. plz do all 3 of these good things
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Apr 22, 2017 22:46
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Nothing to be proud of voting for Hillary or Trump either. You gonna do a happy dance because you elected someone who voted for a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people to find imaginary WMD because that clever W tricked her into it? You voted for Gary Johnson in Pennsylvania.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:48
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JeffersonClay posted:You voted for Gary Johnson in Pennsylvania. You voted for Hillary Clinton, lol.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:49
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The working class didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left the working class.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:49
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Nothing to be proud of voting for Hillary or Trump either. You gonna do a happy dance because you elected someone who voted for a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people to find imaginary WMD because that clever W tricked her into it?  If Trump lines up with your politics, and you truly agree with his policies, yeah whatever. I'm not gonna hold it over you. Same thing with Hillary. If you wanted Bernie but voted for Jill Stein well then you're either a moron or selfish. Mister Facetious posted:If you don't vote against the system there's no incentive for it to change. Hint: Doing this on election day does nothing. It doesn't matter if you're poor or otherwise.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:58
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SSNeoman posted:Hint: Doing this on election day does nothing. It doesn't matter if you're poor or otherwise. Tell that to Hillary Clinton's presdential campaign Oh I forgot it's just assumed that the Democrats move right when they lose elections (even though they just lost an election doing that) Getting people out to vote and providing something better than the lesser of two evils is actually required to win, as much as you might have thought (and the DNC banked on) otherwise. The Democrats lost so hard this time that noted right wing plant Bernie Sanders is now the most popular politician in America, better move right
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Apr 22, 2017 23:02
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Don't move goal posts you two. The topic was about whether or not it makes sense to vote third party. The DNC election is a separate subject.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:03
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SSNeoman posted:Don't move goal posts you two. The topic was about whether or not it makes sense to vote third party. The DNC election is a separate subject. Move what goal posts? If you live in California, voting for the Democrat or third party have the same effect(ie none). This shouldn't really be news to anyone with a basic understanding of America's electoral college. Now please splurge about voter mandates and how much it would have mattered if Hillary Clinton had the 50,000 votes de la riva got in California
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Apr 22, 2017 23:04
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The most popular politician in America is an Independent. Makes you think!
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Apr 22, 2017 23:05
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We were talking about the Presedential election, not the DNC or its bugbears. If you want to switch to that, then say so, but don't just go "third party voting isn't dumb because I think the DNC is corrupt therefore you see MORALLY I am justified, drat the consequences and the political landscape"NewForumSoftware posted:Now please splurge about voter mandates and how much it would have mattered if Hillary Clinton had the 50,000 votes de la riva got in California Sure, easy. "More votes to show support for DNC and locking the landscape left, especially since California being a safe Dem state is only a recent phenomenon, and telling Republicans to  "
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Apr 22, 2017 23:06
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SSNeoman posted:We were talking about the Presedential election, not the DNC or its bugbears. If you want to switch to that, then say so, but don't just go "third party voting isn't dumb because I think the DNC is corrupt therefore you see MORALLY I am justified, drat the consequences and the political landscape" Actually the topic is about how bad the democrats are. I don't know how to tell you any more ways that third party voting is as good as voting Democratic in California but I guess the centrist's mind can only expand so much. Like you're going on about moral justifications. I probably literally wouldn't vote if it was just the presidential vote that was available. I go to the polls for local issues first and foremost. You don't get some kind of medal for voting for the better baby bomber, I don't understand why everyone gets all worked up about it. Presidential votes only matter in a few states, sorry but that's reality. SSNeoman posted:Sure, easy. "More votes to show support for DNC and locking the landscape left, especially since California being a safe Dem state is only a recent phenomenon, and telling Republicans to Ironically, votes for de la riva are effectively this. Same with Stein, even though she's an idiot. NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 23:08
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FuriousxGeorge posted:You voted for Hillary Clinton, lol. You voted for a man whose solution to climate change is colonizing other planets because eventually the sun will expand and envelop the earth. A man who promised to abolish the department of education and cut the federal budget in half. You protest voted for an ultra conservative who was obviously worse than the democratic candidate.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:11
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FuriousxGeorge posted:The most popular politician in America is an Independent. Makes you think! You mean the most moral.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:11
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JeffersonClay posted:You voted for a man whose solution to climate change is colonizing other planets because eventually the sun will expand and envelop the earth. This is unironically more realistic than the Democrat's plan of "well, let's just wait and see if we have to do anything really serious"
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Apr 22, 2017 23:11
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JeffersonClay posted:You voted for a man whose solution to climate change is colonizing other planets because eventually the sun will expand and envelop the earth. A man who promised to abolish the department of education and cut the federal budget in half. You protest voted for an ultra conservative who was obviously worse than the democratic candidate. I didn't protest vote. He was the best candidate on the ballot even with his flaws and my areas of disagreement with him.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:11
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NewForumSoftware posted:Ironically, votes for de la riva are effectively this. Same with Stein, even though she's an idiot. People don't even know who La Riva is. You don't have a voice when you vote third party. You become part of the group that follows the other independent weirdos like that guy who wants to become president so he can own a cheetah. Now is it a large voice when you vote for one of the two major parties? No, but at least it's a voice, and you don't get lumped into the category of "0.01% (I)"
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Apr 22, 2017 23:15
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SSNeoman posted:People don't even know who La Riva is. You don't have a voice when you vote third party. You become part of the group that follows the other independent weirdos like that guy who wants to become president so he can own a cheetah. lol that you believe people are incapable of identifying votes of those parties as left wing. let me guess, nobody has any idea that libertarians exist either, even though they got 4% of the popular vote this election i mean, i get that political science is a bit of a joke but is this something that you were taught or something?
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Apr 22, 2017 23:15
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If the only thing your voice can say is, "I support Hillary Clinton," or "I support Donald Trump," then it turns out most people are fine not having a voice.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:16
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Mister Facetious posted:The working class didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left the working class. let's split the difference and say neoliberalism destroyed the working class as a socially coherent demographic block
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Apr 22, 2017 23:19
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NewForumSoftware posted:lol that you believe people are incapable of identifying votes of those parties as left wing. let me guess, nobody has any idea that libertarians exist either, even though they got 4% of the popular vote this election Ah and finally you decide to bring up a legitimate point! Yes, libertarians did indeed get a good deal of cover this election, though I will argue that's due to how unpopular both of the main parties' candidates were and less because people liked the platform. I do not forsee this happening in the next election, unless we have a similar scenario, though that is only delaying the inevitable. They are also grossly incompetent and under-prepared, lest we forget the primaries being tallied by way of Excell from the year 2000 on a CRT, which will also hurt their efforts. Still, there is historical precedent now for their message so I suppose if their politics align with yours, yeah go for it. I don't think you should because lol libertarians, but I'm not you. FuriousxGeorge posted:If the only thing your voice can say is, "I support Hillary Clinton," or "I support Donald Trump," then it turns out most people are fine not having a voice. far from most. those people are well in the minority. sucks to be them I guess. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 23:21
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icantfindaname posted:let's split the difference and say neoliberalism destroyed the working class as a socially coherent demographic block Sorry, no. The professional class doesn't get an out when their New Democrat God King Bill did more to gently caress the working class and minorities with free trade deals, bank deregulation, tough on crime/Drug War laws, and roll back Depression regulations and benefits further than any president in the post-war era.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:24
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SSNeoman posted:I do not forsee this happening in the next election, unless we have a similar scenario lol if you don't think the DNC will try to shove a poo poo sandwich down everyone's mouth in 2020. quote:I don't think you should because lol libertarians, but I'm not you. That's why I don't vote libertarian. Now third party votes are all libertarian votes? Can you make up your mind please?
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Apr 22, 2017 23:26
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icantfindaname posted:let's split the difference and say neoliberalism destroyed the working class as a socially coherent demographic block That's fine if you are willing to give a straight, honest answer to the inevitable follow up: "Which party are the neoliberals"
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Apr 22, 2017 23:25
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NewForumSoftware posted:lol if you don't think the DNC will try to shove a poo poo sandwich down everyone's mouth in 2020. We're not even done with special elections. Settle down.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:26
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SSNeoman posted:We're not even done with special elections. Settle down. You sweet summer child, such naivety warms my heart
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Apr 22, 2017 23:27
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JeffersonClay posted:You voted for a man whose solution to climate change is colonizing other planets because eventually the sun will expand and envelop the earth. A man who promised to abolish the department of education and cut the federal budget in half. You protest voted for an ultra conservative who was obviously worse than the democratic candidate. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump had much more in common than they did not, specifically on war, defense contractors, corporate welfare, banks, private prisons, and fracking.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:28
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