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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Majorian posted:Yeah, once again, if anyone needs a reminder of why Jamelle Bouie and other liberal columnists are absolutely part of the problem... This is why I keep telling my dad to stop reading slate
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Apr 23, 2017 01:13
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Total legalization of all drugs is right around the corner guys
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Apr 23, 2017 01:14
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JeffersonClay posted:You see that I'm discussing this with two leftists who believe the false equivalency between Trump and Clinton justifies voting for Gary Johnson in a swing state, right? I'm not sure the burden on me is to prove they're not meaningless outliers. I wouldn't really describe myself as a leftist.
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Apr 23, 2017 01:31
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Majorian posted:No, you've been making this claim for quite a while now. You need to back it up. I'm not really interested in someone's absurd excuses for voting for Gary "Hurrrr Aleppo?!" Johnson. I'm interested in why we should believe you when you claim that left-wing criticisms of Clinton hurt her significantly in the general election. I'm also interested in why the fault should be placed with the leftists who pointed out her painfully glaring flaws, instead of folks like you who insisted that those flaws were inconsequential. There's a big difference between identifying Hillary's flaws and asserting those flaws mean there's no important difference between her and Trump. In the context of a binary choice between her and trump, those flaws really were inconsequential. Entertaining other viewpoints, particularly after the primary was decided, was actively harmful to the party. I think the centrist labor voters who are considering voting for smaller parties as a way to get Corbyn out are bad and dumb too. They really should just get over it and face the existential threat from the right.
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Apr 23, 2017 02:21
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JeffersonClay posted:There's a big difference between identifying Hillary's flaws and asserting those flaws mean there's no important difference between her and Trump. In the context of a binary choice between her and trump, those flaws really were inconsequential. Oh, I agree. Clinton and Trump, fundamentally, are both neoliberals with a hard-on for cosmopolitan capitalism with minimal regulations. JC is slowly coming along, folks! 
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Apr 23, 2017 03:07
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stone cold posted:so are you a decriminalize every drug libertarian, a taxes are the real slavery libertarian, children should be able to sell their labor libertarian, the south will rise again libertarian or what Well poo poo, you've definitely convinced him! E; refreshed the thread, oh dear you seem to have done the opposite of that, yikes!
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Apr 23, 2017 03:20
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I don't understand what's confusing you about this conversation. There are a lot of posts like that from posters of an establishmentarian persuasion, and I'm also wondering what their loving deal is. Like, generally you gotta win something before talking that poo poo. And even when you do you still shouldn't because the idea then becomes cementing that hold. Also: manners It's bizarre.
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Apr 23, 2017 03:32
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Legalizing drugs without dismantling capitalism let's the pharmaceutical companies that created the opiate crisis push their shot even harder I'm skeptical. I'm pretty sure whatever you're trying to say here is vastly stupid. But I've never heard a defense of the drug war along the lines of "because capitalism still exists", so if you're up for it, 
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Apr 23, 2017 03:49
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Kilroy posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? What bullshit is this? Opiate epidemic was caused by legal opiates 
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Apr 23, 2017 03:59
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Opiate epidemic was caused by legal opiates What's you opinion on legalized alcohol?
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Apr 23, 2017 04:18
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shrike82 posted:Again, with JC telling Sanders voters here not to bother to vote for Abuela last year because she had in the bag, and people like Schumer talking about the white working class vote being irrelevant, it's hard to care about their stabbed in the back by leftists rhetoric now. Equating individual posters on an internet forum to actual politicians is insane and changing your vote because some poster annoyed you is loving stupid.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:18
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Willie Tomg posted:Well poo poo, you've definitely convinced him!  there's no point in trying to convince a libertarian of anything, they'll either a. realize how batshit and nonfunctional their ideology is on their own terms or b. forever double down and go the route of that dude in miami, stripping on stage at a convention and showing off their white supremacy tattoos
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Apr 23, 2017 04:21
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stone cold posted:
And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. Could it be that there is actually a way to appeal to independent voters?
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Apr 23, 2017 04:25
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Nahhhh. Chelsea 2020!
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Apr 23, 2017 04:26
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VitalSigns posted:Call it what you want, either way it's irrelevant. The argument was that if the DNC overturned the popular vote and selected Bernie Sanders, all Clinton voters would fall in line because Trump is so bad that we don't have to worry about people Oh yeah, for sure, there's no way in hell the DNC throwing out Hillary and making Sanders the candidate wouldn't be met with massive outrage (and rightfully so; even as a Sanders supporter that would have made me feel really dirty). JeffersonClay posted:You see that I'm discussing this with two leftists who believe the false equivalency between Trump and Clinton justifies voting for Gary Johnson in a swing state, right? I'm not sure the burden on me is to prove they're not meaningless outliers. Uh, actually it kinda obviously is? Why in the world would you think it isn't? Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 04:42
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Alienwarehouse posted:Oh, I agree. Clinton and Trump, fundamentally, are both neoliberals with a hard-on for cosmopolitan capitalism with minimal regulations. I guess it's not surprising that terrible opinions are comorbid with reading comprehension deficits.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:50
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FuriousxGeorge posted:And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. once a libertarian voter always a libertarian voter could it be we should appeal to the people who didn't vote instead of gold hoarding jrodes i mean if you crunch the numbers between people who didn't vote versus people who voted third party, why should anybody pay attention to the john mcafee ayn rand fandies of america like you voted for this  why should anybody take you seriously
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Apr 23, 2017 04:51
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FuriousxGeorge posted:And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. The only thing Sanders, Obama and Johnson have in common is a Y chromosome.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:53
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FuriousxGeorge posted:And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. ah yes, the Sanders > Libertarian voter, truly you are the Rational Independent that we should all strive to be.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:54
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JeffersonClay posted:I guess it's not surprising that terrible opinions are comorbid with reading comprehension deficits. This stab-in-the-back falsehood and conspiracy theory you're promoting about leftists precipitating Hillary's (ahem, "Abuela") defeat has ugly historical ramifications to it.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:56
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As FuriousxGeorge himself said, he doesn't consider himself a leftist. He seems more like the sort of voter who is just vaguely anti-establishment and willing to support anyone who gives that impression (though even under those circumstances I'm not sure why someone would vote Johnson instead of Stein; I mean, they're both awful, but Johnson is even worse than her). edit: Generally speaking, there's a minority of Sanders supporters who aren't really leftists so much as they are the same sort of people who voted for Ron Paul. They don't really have a coherent ideology and just back whoever seems like they're an "outsider" candidate (I know Sanders isn't really an outsider, but some people still ended up with that impression). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 04:57
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HannibalBarca posted:ah yes, the Sanders > Libertarian voter, truly you are the Rational Independent that we should all strive to be. "i support the good move of expansion of the state with regards to social policies, health care, education, etc, so i'm gonna pull the lever for the guy who's like if rick perry was a skosh dumber, like he loved citizens united dumb"
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Apr 23, 2017 04:59
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FuriousxGeorge posted:And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. drat dude. drat.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:59
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Opiate epidemic was caused by legal opiates Moreover, we've also had "epidemics" of restricted drugs such as crack. Almost as if people are going to do drugs and prohibition is just an excuse to put the ones you don't like in jail. JeffersonClay posted:I guess it's not surprising that terrible opinions are comorbid with reading comprehension deficits.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:08
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Alienwarehouse posted:This stab-in-the-back falsehood and conspiracy theory you're promoting about leftists precipitating Hillary's (ahem, "Abuela") defeat has ugly historical ramifications to it. Its not a falsehood to suggest you're promulgating the idea that there's no difference between the democrats and the republicans because that's exactly what you've been doing in this thread. Ytlaya posted:As FuriousxGeorge himself said, he doesn't consider himself a leftist. He seems more like the sort of voter who is just vaguely anti-establishment and willing to support anyone who gives that impression (though even under those circumstances I'm not sure why someone would vote Johnson instead of Stein; I mean, they're both awful, but Johnson is even worse than her). He was a Bernie supporter and the narrative that there was no important difference between Trump and Clinton lead him to vote 3rd party in a swing state instead of listening to Sanders. Certainly most leftists did not believe or amplify that narrative, but some did and they helped Trump succeed.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:08
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FuriousxGeorge posted:And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. I mean I'm sympathetic to those afflicted with the disease of libertarianism since I'm a recovering libertarian myself (clean for 10 years) but if you were on board with Sanders then switched to Johnson, you don't have any coherent politics to speak of. Not sure what you're doing in this thread.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:12
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JeffersonClay posted:Its not a falsehood to suggest you're promulgating the idea that there's no difference between the democrats and the republicans because that's exactly what you've been doing in this thread. False. I said there is no fundamental difference between the two. Banks, defense contractors, and multinational corporations are content with both, hence why they throw millions of dollars at them. JeffersonClay posted:He was a Bernie supporter and the narrative that there was no important difference between Trump and Clinton lead him to vote 3rd party in a swing state instead of listening to Sanders. Certainly most leftists did not believe or amplify that narrative, but some did and they helped Trump succeed. Again, false. Bernie voters wanted change. With Hillary, there was no change.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:16
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Krugman can't help himself http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-banks-should-be-broken-up-20160408 quote:Paul Krugman wrote an op-ed in the New York Times today called "Sanders Over the Edge." He's been doing a lot of shovel work for the Hillary Clinton campaign lately, which is his right of course. The piece eventually devolves into a criticism of the character of Bernie Sanders, but it's his take on the causes of the '08 crash that really raises an eyebrow.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:16
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Kilroy posted:Yo if you were backing Sanders and then switched to Johnson you're dumb as poo poo hth. Yep! I've seen a couple of cars that had Ron Paul 2012 Bumper Stickers next to Bernie 2016 Bumper Stickers and all that that tells me is that they are dumb as hell and don't understand Politics as anything more than a reality show with characters that they either like or hate. (I say this as a lukewarm Clinton 16 supporter that, in retrospect, believes Bernie or probably any other Democratic candidate would have won) HannibalBarca fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 05:16
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shrike82 posted:Krugman can't help himself jesus are we gonna pretend for example morgan wasn't leveraged to the hilt and had to get like 100+ billion usd from the fed
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Apr 23, 2017 05:19
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FuriousxGeorge posted:And yet, somehow, some way... Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders persuaded me to vote for them. Weird. Well that's a weird combination of votes that doesn't seem to make sense on its face! Why did you vote for these very-much-not-libertarians then, if you supposedly disagree with them so much?
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Apr 23, 2017 05:21
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Alienwarehouse posted:Again, false. Bernie voters wanted change. With Hillary, there was no change. Honestly if this is a concept that you can't wrap your head around then you should probably stay the hell away from the polls on election day. Go worship whatever trickster god you pray to, instead.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:21
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Alienwarehouse posted:Again, false. Bernie voters wanted change. With Hillary, there was no change. Look, I'm just as much of a "Bernie would have won" guy as anyone else, but goddamn there's a difference between having Garland and Srinivasan on SCOTUS vs. having Gorsuch on there for 30 years until we're all old and grey. Maybe the Clinton campaign should have emphasized that more. Hell, I'm not Robby Mook.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:48
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Maarek posted:Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America, not necessarily the most popular politician among the Democratic primary electorate. Except he is because his favorability rating amongDemocrats is so astonishingly high I'm not going to even google it to avoid embarrassing you. edit - I lied, I did google it  Everybody loves Bernie except a handful of crazy embittered neo-PUMAs who need to be set adrift on an iceberg before they lose more elections. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 06:11
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JeffersonClay posted:The only thing Sanders, Obama and Johnson have in common is a Y chromosome. Is CTR still bankrolling people ITT?
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Apr 23, 2017 06:11
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The Insect Court posted:Except he is because his favorability rating amongDemocrats is so astonishingly high I'm not going to even google it to avoid embarrassing you. obamacare is more popular among democrats  people are idiots
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Apr 23, 2017 06:18
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The Insect Court posted:Except he is because his favorability rating amongDemocrats is so astonishingly high I'm not going to even google it to avoid embarrassing you. you're not wrong but also aren't you not allowed in d&d
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Apr 23, 2017 06:17
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what the hell did pelosi do to be so moderately liked? i mean she's a loving baller cat herder but i thought everyone hated her guts
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Apr 23, 2017 06:26
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I can't wait for Chelsea's candidacy https://twitter.com/mattbruenig/status/856002248798810113
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Apr 23, 2017 06:29
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Alienwarehouse posted:Oh, I agree. Clinton and Trump, fundamentally, are both neoliberals with a hard-on for cosmopolitan capitalism with minimal regulations. lol
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Apr 23, 2017 06:48
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