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Wheezle posted:I like Bill, but I hope they're not going to keep on with this "she asks weird questions that wouldn't occur to anyone else" schtick. It feels incredibly forced. She's the voice of this thread.
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Apr 23, 2017 15:28
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Wheezle posted:I like Bill, but I hope they're not going to keep on with this "she asks weird questions that wouldn't occur to anyone else" schtick. It feels incredibly forced. I don't think it seems forced so much as it's a bit novel to have a companion actually drive the plot by asking good questions and having good ideas rather than getting into trouble.  Otherwise it seems like a pretty natural consequence of having a character that is naturally highly inquisitive and doesn't have any sort of filter between brain and mouth.
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Apr 23, 2017 16:02
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Impressed by the episode for sure. Good dialogue, loved the set design, and it's always cool to see how the Doctor reacts to being wrong. Question though - I got a major vibe at the end that was along the lines of "telling newcomers to respect and negotiate with the natives." Definitely could make a case for colonization, but I got a "refugees coming to a new country for asylum" vibe, especially with the history picture book in the tomb and all the pictures of conflict and the references to The Beast Below/The Ark in Space. Not a bad thing like the Zygon two-parter but I went to refugees instead of colonists.
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Apr 23, 2017 16:07
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CobiWann posted:Impressed by the episode for sure. Good dialogue, loved the set design, and it's always cool to see how the Doctor reacts to being wrong. It's not a bad take on it, but could you blame them for an apology in script form for The Zygon Invasion?
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Apr 23, 2017 17:39
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I know the answer to this question is "Or there wouldn't be a story" buuuut Why did no-one programme the robots not to murder people and turn their bones into fertiliser? Like, I feel like that's one of the first things you do. Also the first thing the robots want to do is exploit the humans? For what? What could human beings possibly give robots? And the humans are going to, what, live in perfect harmony with a new lifeform that murdered a bunch of them, promptly forgot about it, and now want to exploit their labour? That's a healthy power dynamic. And I have no idea how that kid could so quickly go back to hanging out with his adorable robot pal after he found out that it ate his family. It's like the entire thing completely lost the plot in the final act. Shame. I really liked it until that point.
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Apr 23, 2017 17:46
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Wheezle posted:I like Bill, but I hope they're not going to keep on with this "she asks weird questions that wouldn't occur to anyone else" schtick. It feels incredibly forced. as opposed to "companion in perpetual awe of the Doctor's genius who keeps getting kidnapped?" lol. I know there's a vast diversity of Who opinions, but I don't know how to engage with this. Moffat & co. are trying to make Bill distinct from recent companions, and at the moment they seem to be doing it in two ways. 1. very enthusiastic about adventuring, even when things get dark. 2. eager to learn new things. I thought the first episode did a pretty effective job of sketching out why Bill was dissatisfied with her life, but stuck in it. I like the vibe where the Doctor is a teacher taking his student on a series of crazy field trips. 
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Apr 23, 2017 17:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IQkMhXEMM In which Pearl talks about Valencia which can basically be summed up as "It's pretty. It's hot. There was a lot of blue jelly and the people were nice."
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Apr 23, 2017 18:08
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Vinylshadow posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IQkMhXEMM Re shoots for The Two Doctors?
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Apr 23, 2017 18:46
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CobiWann posted:Re shoots for The Two Doctors? Frazer Hines returning 100% confirmed! 
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Apr 23, 2017 22:46
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The new companion seems like a standard companion. I don't think she asks any quesitons others wouldn't ask, I think she asks exactly all the same questions. There's absolutely nothing interesting about her, she's just some randomer come along going "yeah this is well good innit", it looks like absolutely no effort was put into developing her and giving her basic motivation or anything intriguing whatsoever. This episode also seemed like another boilerplate episode, but even lazier. It's a step up from recent episodes, but that's not difficult. Doctor goes to a world, something's wrong, humans have to learn to live in peace with the aliens, see you later. Nothing interesting was added, there wasn't any deeper level to it. There was some vague generic commentary at the end about why slavery is bad, which didn't really fit at all. None of the technicians knew anything about the robots they designed and made for some reason. No one was smart in this episode, even the Doctor couldn't see the super in-your-face telegraphed trap, they really rubbed our noses in that foreshadowing.
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Apr 23, 2017 23:07
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Open Source Idiom posted:I know the answer to this question is "Or there wouldn't be a story" buuuut I got the idea that it's something that didn't come up in the testing phase where they could fix it. There's similarities to the Clockwork Men from Girl in the Fireplace/Deep Breath as I said earlier: both types of robot essentially came to the conclusion, after an unclear amount of isolation, that individual human lives mattered less than the project's continuation. That's the sort of bug that doesn't come up in testing because there just isn't time for it to arise.
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Apr 23, 2017 23:22
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Can someone answer a question for me - does the doctor still hide all traces of his existence like he used to, or does he not bother with secrecy anymore?
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Apr 23, 2017 23:41
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Fulchrum posted:Can someone answer a question for me - does the doctor still hide all traces of his existence like he used to, or does he not bother with secrecy anymore? It seems like Moffat quietly abandoned that whole idea. The original idea was to walk back from the whole,"Everybody knows who the Doctor is and hero worships and/or fears him" thing and that largely still seems to be the case, with just the appropriate people/races being aware of him now (they largely dumped that stupid Dalek pathweb stuff). They could have easily just returned to that status quo without the explicit storyline about the Doctor erasing himself from the records in the first place of course.
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Apr 23, 2017 23:57
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So does all humanity know of him, or not?
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Apr 24, 2017 00:11
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Open Source Idiom posted:I know the answer to this question is "Or there wouldn't be a story" buuuut Programmers seem to be pretty good at designing things that seem like a good idea at the time but it turns out there was something pretty important that they didn't think of.
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Apr 24, 2017 00:14
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Yeah I can easily imagine that "don't murder the humans" wasn't even a consideration because they were designed to perform a limited set of tasks, but they end up being able to go outside that and oops. Something to put in the next patch.
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Apr 24, 2017 00:27
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The art direction in this episode was amazing. I hesitate to call it production design because it didn't look like a studio set and I want to know where they filmed it. The powder blue/wheat yellow palette was also fresh and different.
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Apr 24, 2017 01:19
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Which questions rubbed you the wrong way? Nothing felt especially weird this week. In this case it was the bit about not bringing the seats closer to the console. After nonsensical poo poo like remarking that the Tardis looks like a kitchen, it just feels like Moffatt trying way too hard to emphasise how down to earth and practical this person is by making her *absurdly* so. It feels like a parody. Outside of these moments she's delightful, though.
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Apr 24, 2017 01:44
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I dunno; if I didn't have about a dozen years of my own fandom + 50 years of built up history from the show; I might wonder what good the chairs are too. It struck me as a logical question for a human who had no idea aliens and spaceships existed until 48 hours before.
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Apr 24, 2017 01:48
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Fulchrum posted:So does all humanity know of him, or not? They do not, just mostly UNIT and his former companions/people tangentially involved in his adventures over the years.
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Apr 24, 2017 01:53
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Marmaduke! posted:I guess Happiness Patrols are a recurring problem in the future! I noticed that too. I'm glad we both noticed it!
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Apr 24, 2017 02:24
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I liked that episode and I like Bill a lot. I thought I was going to be annoyed by robots, but they were actually kind of fun. It felt a bit like the Tennant years in that the Doctor discovers a threat, some military hardass wants to DESTROY it good and properly without thinking things through, and then the Doctor sorts it out through negotiation and lecturing, all while his companion looks on the new world with a kind of unreserved joyous wonder and helps out. Also, it looks maybe the Doctor and Bill are actually going to travel around for a couple of episodes before just returning home, which is something I missed. This was waybetter than Frank Cottrell-Boyce's last episode.
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Apr 24, 2017 03:37
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Megaspel posted:The new companion seems like a standard companion. I don't think she asks any questions others wouldn't ask, I think she asks exactly all the same questions. There's absolutely nothing interesting about her, she's just some randomer come along going "yeah this is well good innit", it looks like absolutely no effort was put into developing her and giving her basic motivation or anything intriguing whatsoever. I really disagree with this. I think they're taking their time to let us know her instead of just defining her as "The Girl Who [Whatever]." She's of university age and works at a university without attending, and she seems to have some idealist sensibilities about higher education. She compares things to the student union as if that were some kind of utopia. She never knew her mom, she falls fast for people, and seems extremely eager to expand her horizons and have genuine experiences. Her methods of questioning the Doctor are all curiosity-induced questions rather than questions that come out of fear, which is very different from most companions, who tend to get nervous somewhere around the second episode about the whole thing. They don't have to shove a personality down our throat. She's a young woman who aspires to be a student, but feels she has lacked opportunity.
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Apr 24, 2017 03:48
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Shneak posted:The art direction in this episode was amazing. I hesitate to call it production design because it didn't look like a studio set and I want to know where they filmed it. The powder blue/wheat yellow palette was also fresh and different. Got ya covered. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g11sqzCsAps
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Apr 24, 2017 06:15
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My biggest question was... why did they just let that kid wander off? They knew there were flesh eating robot swarms right outside the door... and furthermore the Doctor knew that kid's mother was dead. But they just kind of abandoned him. I was also pretty unhappy with the resolution until people in here kind of explained it as the Doctor erasing the imperative to serve humans, rather than just straight up erasing everything, and that's what I'm gonna go with even if that's not exactly how the Doctor presented it, as it makes everything a lot better. As a side note, there have been a few eye rolls at the season arc of guarding the vault. Personally, I think it's a drat good season arc. It's not an intrusive mystery- there's a vault, he's guarding it, we don't know why but that's fine as there's a lot of plausible reasons. We're not presented with some kind of "bad wolf" mystery, with significance in its reoccurrence, devoid of all other meaning. It's a perfectly sensible situation where we just don't happen to know what's in the vault. While "no goddam contrived season long mystery" is a nice option in theory, I think something like this is probably the next best thing. There will be a finale where a long standing question will be answered, but there won't be some impossible or shocking mystery every episode distracting from things. Also, Nardole is hilarious and I have no idea what peoples problem with him is. He's a great companion.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:40
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Wheezle posted:In this case it was the bit about not bringing the seats closer to the console. After nonsensical poo poo like remarking that the Tardis looks like a kitchen, it just feels like Moffatt trying way too hard to emphasise how down to earth and practical this person is by making her *absurdly* so. It feels like a parody. Since when ARE there seats in the Tardis, anyway?
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Apr 24, 2017 06:42
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I fully expected to hate Nardole based on thread reactions, but he's been fairly unobtrusive. These first two episodes have been fine. However, it's pretty apparent that they came up with the monsters first and built the plot around them. I realize "mystery wrapped up with a half-assed explanation at the 45 minute mark" is a revival tradition, but you can't do it two episodes in a row. Carbon dioxide posted:Since when ARE there seats in the Tardis, anyway? 9/10 had that couch and I'm almost certain 11's had seats or stools. ed: Yep 
Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 06:48
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I never would have noticed the chairs in the TARDIS if Bill hadn't asked. Thanks Bill!
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Apr 24, 2017 06:57
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Astroman posted:I noticed that too. I'm glad we both noticed it! I'm happy you're glad!
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Apr 24, 2017 09:00
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The_Doctor posted:I'm happy you're glad! Smile,
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Apr 24, 2017 10:15
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Please don't, The Happiness Patrol is a little bit too close to home at the moment.
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Apr 24, 2017 10:22
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I liked how gullible Bill seems at first, but then you realize in universe brain controlling lizards are probably an actuall thing that could exist, that wouldn't even be that crazy by the series standards. The things she says make you go what... then doubletake because she actually has a point.  Naldore just seems underutilized, he's fun but not sure what his point is if they'll just keep leaving him behind.
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Apr 24, 2017 10:34
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Bicyclops posted:I really disagree with this. I think they're taking their time to let us know her instead of just defining her as "The Girl Who [Whatever]." She's of university age and works at a university without attending, and she seems to have some idealist sensibilities about higher education. She compares things to the student union as if that were some kind of utopia. She never knew her mom, she falls fast for people, and seems extremely eager to expand her horizons and have genuine experiences. Her methods of questioning the Doctor are all curiosity-induced questions rather than questions that come out of fear, which is very different from most companions, who tend to get nervous somewhere around the second episode about the whole thing. She also got firsts on every paper the Doctor set her so she's certainly got smarts. She was also getting ~97% on her essays, which is no easy feat considering once you're past 80%, you're just getting rewarded for sheer excellence. And I can't imagine the Doctor is an easy grader. Going by that alone, she's maybe the smartest companion since... Nyssa?
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Apr 24, 2017 10:51
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Plavski posted:She also got firsts on every paper the Doctor set her so she's certainly got smarts. She was also getting ~97% on her essays, which is no easy feat considering once you're past 80%, you're just getting rewarded for sheer excellence. And I can't imagine the Doctor is an easy grader. Going by that alone, she's maybe the smartest companion since... Nyssa? I feel like the Doctor would probably give the majority of his marks for understanding concepts rather than factual knowledge, so while she's probably very smart in that regard she's hard to compare. Consider that the most qualified and presumably academically intelligent companion of the revival has been Martha, by virtue of being a qualified doctor, and yet I think we'd all agree that Bill's smarter in a very different way.
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Apr 24, 2017 12:14
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Plavski posted:She also got firsts on every paper the Doctor set her so she's certainly got smarts. She was also getting ~97% on her essays, which is no easy feat considering once you're past 80%, you're just getting rewarded for sheer excellence. And I can't imagine the Doctor is an easy grader. Going by that alone, she's maybe the smartest companion since... Nyssa? There's no way the Doctor would actually have the patience to mark things academically. A quick scan through and a mark based on how interesting he thought it was. Well maybe six would give it the time it needs, but twelve would get bored halfway through an abstract and go and play guitar instead.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:03
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That was a I decent episode but I agree that it messed up the ending. For one thing The Doctor randomly flips allegiances and for another thing resetting the Vardi didn't really make sense. Wouldn't resetting them restore them to 'factory settings' of serving humans? And if you're saying they're sentient then isn't mindwiping an entire species monstrous? Yeah you don't exactly expect realistic technology rules in Doctor Who, but it just seemed dumb that turning the robots off and on again caused them to lose all knowledge of humans but retain all their sophistication and all knowledge of themselves. And how would the humans pay rent anyway? They didn't exactly bring much material wealth with them (they could scavenge their ship I suppose, but that's a temporary solution at best.) I like the idea in this topic of the Vardi learning about grief from losing one of their own and I think it would've been a funny inversion, because it would've been the one time ever that grabbing a gun and shooting something helped solve a problem in Doctor Who rather than exarcebating it. The setup of "Robot designed to keep people happy decides the best way to curb unhappiness is though good ole' murdering" is fine. Yeah you'd hope in any real world that "don't murder humans" is one of the first things robots learn, but technology goes wrong all the time in this series and this seemed like a reasonable way for it to happen. I liked the Vardi's design too. I thought Bill's questions were fine. "Are there seatbelts?" "Why can't you reach the console from the seats?" are silly goofy questions in a soft sci-fi series, but well they're kind of legitimate practical questions too so they worked for me.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:08
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SpaceCommie posted:There's no way the Doctor would actually have the patience to mark things academically. A quick scan through and a mark based on how interesting he thought it was. Now I'm seeing Six give the "Physics" speech from School Reunion and I didn't know how badly I want someone to ask Colin to read it at a convention.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:18
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Elite posted:I thought Bill's questions were fine. "Are there seatbelts?" "Why can't you reach the console from the seats?" are silly goofy questions in a soft sci-fi series, but well they're kind of legitimate practical questions too so they worked for me. The jump seats in there are cool but PHENOMENALLY uncomfortable. Their shape is otherworldly engineered to be the exact shape that will require a month of osteopath's visits if you dare sit in them.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:58
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The overall design of this season, from bigger picture things like what the Vardi look like and the way the TARDIS is lit, all the way down to tiny details like Bill's outfit and the labels on the machines the Doctor is tinkering with, is pretty great in my opinion. CG Elephant notwithstanding, it feels like people are doing a lot with relatively little resources. I don't know what changed between last season and this one, but it just feels more detailed, filled with the good kind of clutter and kipple that make places feel lived in.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:02
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Bicyclops posted:The overall design of this season, from bigger picture things like what the Vardi look like and the way the TARDIS is lit, all the way down to tiny details like Bill's outfit and the labels on the machines the Doctor is tinkering with, is pretty great in my opinion. CG Elephant notwithstanding, it feels like people are doing a lot with relatively little resources. I don't know what changed between last season and this one, but it just feels more detailed, filled with the good kind of clutter and kipple that make places feel lived in. I was weirdly irritated that during the revelation of the magic puddle Bill was wearing a very obviously asymmetrical checkered shirt, but the actual eureka moment came from the badge on her very unremarkable denim jacket.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:13
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