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AG3
Feb 4, 2004

Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.

Oven Wrangler

Mailer posted:

Finishing NG+ I just want to go do a full run at P4G again. Then I remember I'd have to crane my neck down at that tiny rear end screen again. :/


Hrmm? Using normal rear end Protein at the gym the entire game and it eventually just gives you 3HP and 2SP per go. I didn't even know there was another kind.


I mean the protein by itself, not total including what the gym gives you.

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NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009

Neddy Seagoon posted:

What goes a long way to helping with that I think are the School Trip, Festival and even the Valentines Day Date. It's just nice having something that isn't a checklist to working up to loving at Rank 10 and then never speaking to them again.
It would definitely be nice to see a future game tie some mechanical benefits to post-rank 10 hangouts. It certainly wouldn't be game-breaking for Sun to keep giving you +3 charm even after you max him, for example.

Temperance was a really good example of that this game; even though I finished her link early and picked the non-romantic option she still felt very present throughout the whole game. Of course not taking time helped a lot with that.

Mailer posted:

Finishing NG+ I just want to go do a full run at P4G again. Then I remember I'd have to crane my neck down at that tiny rear end screen again. :/
You know, PSTVs are stupidly cheap these days.

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
i just want to play more persona, are they going to make a girl version of persona 5 so i can date yusuke

derra
Dec 29, 2012
Haru is finally free of her cage and wants to have fun with projects she owns (gardening, cafe) and dreams (beauty thief). And Joker, of course. Don't be an rear end to her.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I still really want a version of Merciless difficulty without the massively decreased EXP/money gain. I guess the point of Merciless is that you're supposed to do it at a lower level because technical/weakness/critical hits do such massively increased damage, but levels also give you more versatility in Persona so it'd suck to be at a low level for longer than usual unless you grind.

I'm thinking something like:
  • Enemy damage to the player is pretty much the same as Hard, maybe a tiny bit more if you want it to be "super hard" or whatever.
  • Player damage to the enemy is significantly less, like how it already is in Merciless, but with the 3x modifier on technical, weakness, and critical hits.
  • EXP and money gain is the same as Normal and Hard.
I'd play that for sure.

I think the technical hit and Baton Pass systems are the two new things that didn't really end up as integrated as they could've been and I'd really enjoy a version of the game that integrates them more. Baton Pass, right now, is mostly a way to evaporate random battles more quickly, but I'd love to see boss fights actually designed and balanced around Baton Pass and trying to get as many turns in as you can between the boss's turns. At the same time, I wonder if it would work to have fewer enemies with elemental weaknesses but let you trigger "One More!" and Baton Passes off of technical hits, too. Might lead to more variety in random battles and even more emphasis on status ailments and teamwork (party members setting up each other's technicals).

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010

Kurtofan posted:

i just want to play more persona, are they going to make a girl version of persona 5 so i can date yusuke
If the stars are in alignment, and you sacrifice a goat in the name of Satan on the night of a design meeting, your dark wish may be granted.

pezzie
Apr 11, 2003

everytime someone says a seasonal anime is GOAT

Just watch the best anime ever

NRVNQSR posted:

You know, PSTVs are stupidly cheap these days.

I literally bought a $25 used PSTV to keep as a dedicated P4G machine.

I haven't personally used it yet since I beat the game a few years ago on a Vita proper, but I have loaned it to at least 2 friends to play the game.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

arisu posted:

I literally bought a $25 used PSTV to keep as a dedicated P4G machine.

That's what I should've done. I bought a Vita a couple years ago pretty much specifically to play P4G but I had myself convinced I'd want other Vita games. So far the only game I've played on it was P4G.

My girlfriend's interested in P4 Dancing All Night, though--she likes rhythm games and I'm horrible at them--so the Vita might actually get used again! For another Persona 4 thing.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

The worst thing I can say about P5 bosses is that so far none of them have had a moment as great as the Wall/Absorb troll in P4.

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

Harrow posted:

I think the technical hit and Baton Pass systems are the two new things that didn't really end up as integrated as they could've been and I'd really enjoy a version of the game that integrates them more. Baton Pass, right now, is mostly a way to evaporate random battles more quickly, but I'd love to see boss fights actually designed and balanced around Baton Pass and trying to get as many turns in as you can between the boss's turns.

Yeah, like, Baton Passes are cool and let you do wacky nuts damage but it's useless for boss fights. They definitely knew that though and that's an intentional decision (it's clearly part of why every single boss is neutral across the board for elemental resists, for example) but they don't feel 100% balanced for it. Even for like (Palace 5)the Executive Director who IS crittable (because he doesn't count as the actual boss I guess) you CAN Baton Pass off it... but you can't All Out Attack. That strikes me as something that feels backwards since on-average AOAs deal less damage than anything else that isn't resisted on a downed enemy to begin with.

It's an interesting mechanic and one that with proper fine-tuning could be way better than it is, but right now it's just not quite there.

Technical Hits just flatout never seemed worth it to me. Most of the things that grant them used to be guaranteed crits or innate gigantic damage boosts and i get wanting to curb that somewhat, but it feels like it's just more sensible to use them as a way to shut down annoying random encounters for a couple turns (and they went too far with Shock IMO by making it also Shock you if you try and profit off of it with Physical stuff). Except boosts off of Burn; that just eats through stuff and that's mostly because Burn devours their HP in the process as well.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Dragonatrix posted:

Yeah, like, Baton Passes are cool and let you do wacky nuts damage but it's useless for boss fights. They definitely knew that though and that's an intentional decision (it's clearly part of why every single boss is neutral across the board for elemental resists, for example) but they don't feel 100% balanced for it. Even for like (Palace 5)the Executive Director who IS crittable (because he doesn't count as the actual boss I guess) you CAN Baton Pass off it... but you can't All Out Attack. That strikes me as something that feels backwards since on-average AOAs deal less damage than anything else that isn't resisted on a downed enemy to begin with.

It's an interesting mechanic and one that with proper fine-tuning could be way better than it is, but right now it's just not quite there.

Technical Hits just flatout never seemed worth it to me. Most of the things that grant them used to be guaranteed crits or innate gigantic damage boosts and i get wanting to curb that somewhat, but it feels like it's just more sensible to use them as a way to shut down annoying random encounters for a couple turns (and they went too far with Shock IMO by making it also Shock you if you try and profit off of it with Physical stuff). Except boosts off of Burn; that just eats through stuff and that's mostly because Burn devours their HP in the process as well.

It'd be cool to see both systems expanded in the next Persona game--it's probably out of scope for a rerelease/expansion, unfortunately.

Technicals letting you trigger "One More!" like a crit or weakness hit would be awesome (and then make enemies with no weaknesses slightly more common, and vulnerable to at least a couple of ailments), and bosses having weaknesses (even if they don't get knocked down) and being vulnerable to a couple of non-disabling statuses so you can trigger technicals would let Baton Pass be more of a mechanic there. If nothing else, Baton Pass feels like a step towards Press Turns, just with a teamwork and friendship angle to it, and I like that for Persona.

Baton Pass would definitely need a bit of rebalancing, but at the same time, if it's tricky to set up and pull off then you're not likely to get huge four-character Baton Pass chains and evaporate bosses all that often.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Wait, bosses can't be critted? That kind of ruins Yusuke's best offense options.

Saint Freak
Apr 16, 2007

Regretting is an insult to oneself
Buglord

ApplesandOranges posted:

Wait, bosses can't be critted? That kind of ruins Yusuke's best offense options.

I mean, that's like 6 enemies in the game.

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010

Harrow posted:

Baton Pass would definitely need a bit of rebalancing, but at the same time, if it's tricky to set up and pull off then you're not likely to get huge four-character Baton Pass chains and evaporate bosses all that often.
I mean, they could just give bosses more health, if it comes to that.

Scorps
Feb 24, 2008

Oh, lighten up Mr. Dooms-and-Gloom, "embezzle" is metal.
Stayed up way too late last night maxing Ryuji, Ann, and finally maxing and dating Makoto. Now tired as poo poo at work. So worth it.

I liked all the max rank scenes although as others have mentioned the super awakenings are kind of meh

Ready to go into Palace 6 soon, is there a list of when the Flu season days are because I wouldn't mind making a separate save with a hugely grinded up character when I get to that point.

Also I really need to get kindness maxed so I can continue with Sojiro and Hifumi, is the plant shop the best place I can earn kindness if my plant is fed already and Tower isn't available? I've got Charm and Knowledge maxed out so I should be dinging the other 3 up pretty soon I have a feeling just need a few last push points.

Instant Grat
Jul 31, 2009

Just add
NERD RAAAAAAGE

Scorps posted:

is there a list of when the Flu season days are because I wouldn't mind making a separate save with a hugely grinded up character when I get to that point

There are two in November and three in December (or the other way around). They'll show up in the top left, by the date, just like all the other Mementos modifiers.

Scorps
Feb 24, 2008

Oh, lighten up Mr. Dooms-and-Gloom, "embezzle" is metal.
OK I might just plan for the December ones then, I just didn't want to end up sending the calling card with the Flu season the next day on accident or something

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013


There are only two flu days in December. 8th and the 9th, iirc.

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010
November 13 to 15, and December 8 and 9, apparently.

Scorps
Feb 24, 2008

Oh, lighten up Mr. Dooms-and-Gloom, "embezzle" is metal.
Sweet I think I'm on like 11/7 about to do Palace 6 so I'll be all free'd up by then, thanks!

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

FractalSandwich posted:

I mean, they could just give bosses more health, if it comes to that.

Considering the very first boss has more than 1000 and they go up from there, that would be more of an annoying "fix" than anything else.

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010

Dragonatrix posted:

Considering the very first boss has more than 1000 and they go up from there, that would be more of an annoying "fix" than anything else.
Not if you're doing more damage per action, on average.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

ApplesandOranges posted:

Wait, bosses can't be critted? That kind of ruins Yusuke's best offense options.

Yeah, there's a reason everyone says Yusuke is the worst party member mechanically. His whole gimmick is entirely unusable against bosses.

ChaosArgate
Oct 10, 2012

Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

Yusuke kinda reminds me of vanilla P4's Naoto cuz he's a really good crowd clearer, but you absolutely do not want him anywhere near a boss.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen

FractalSandwich posted:

Not if you're doing more damage per action, on average.

Whats even the point then

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

It sets up a situation where you either use Baton Pass well or drag out the fight forever and/or get owned.

I don't think the way to balance a potential Persona game where Baton Pass is a core boss fight mechanic is just to give the boss more HP, necessarily, but I would like it if Baton Pass was a core part of the battle system in both random battles and boss fights and things were balanced around it. I guess bosses might need more HP in that scenario, but I'm also thinking of it in terms of, like, you need to get as many turns in between the boss's turns as you can to keep yourself healed up/protected, sort of like Press Turns sometimes work.

OneDeadman
Oct 16, 2010

[SUPERBIA]
Baton pass also ups recovery so they could make the beginning bosses a bit more Lethal to make you actual think about using baton passes as something more than just a damage multiplier.

I think that a another problem with baton pass is that you kinda never will end up getting the full baton pass chain except when enemies are weak to Phys or Gun really.

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010

Harrow posted:

I don't think the way to balance a potential Persona game where Baton Pass is a core boss fight mechanic is just to give the boss more HP, necessarily, but I would like it if Baton Pass was a core part of the battle system in both random battles and boss fights and things were balanced around it. I guess bosses might need more HP in that scenario, but I'm also thinking of it in terms of, like, you need to get as many turns in between the boss's turns as you can to keep yourself healed up/protected, sort of like Press Turns sometimes work.
That gets a bit awkward, because as it is you can't continue a chain by healing, and buffs and debuffs don't synergise with a chain at all.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

OneDeadman posted:

Baton pass also ups recovery so they could make the beginning bosses a bit more Lethal to make you actual think about using baton passes as something more than just a damage multiplier.

I think that a another problem with baton pass is that you kinda never will end up getting the full baton pass chain except when enemies are weak to Phys or Gun really.

That's what Items are for.

They really should be easier to craft/craft in larger quantities tho. They're just rare enough that you don't want to use them for random fights, but not powerful enough to really be worth saving unless you want to pull off a mega baton-pass.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom

Do you think Yusuke would be a fan of Lady Gaga? I can imagine him going off the deep end with her ~*Aesthetics*~ and her crazy performances.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
I'm just before Palace 5 and I don't want to finish this game because that means my time with my friends will be over. :(

OneDeadman
Oct 16, 2010

[SUPERBIA]

FractalSandwich posted:

That gets a bit awkward, because as it is you can't continue a chain by healing, and buffs and debuffs don't synergise with a chain at all.

Maybe they could make buffs go back to old Smt style and have Baton Pass make buffs do multiple stages?

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

OneDeadman posted:

Maybe they could make buffs go back to old Smt style and have Baton Pass make buffs do multiple stages?

Eh, not really a fan of that. I like how they currently work in Persona where they're significant, but on a time limit.

I was never a fan of the multi-turn buffing to get anything significant in SMT, especially since it gets wiped out so easily. Plus I prefer the 'low level single target, high level multi' Persona has going on so you can actually meaningfully upgrade your buffs.

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.
So I picked this game up the other day and, as a Persona noob, am completely overwhelmed. Couple questions.

How important is it to recruit All The Personas? I've been making a point of grabbing one of each I find, but I didn't realize I had to bank them in the Velvet Room to register them. Similarly, am I going to have to become a fusion guru in order to get anything done? The whole mechanic confuses the hell out of me right now, but that's probably because I'm level 9 and almost everything I can fuse is too high level for me. Resummoning guys from the register also seems....expensive.

Do I need to rush? I'm obviously not going to get 100% or anything on this run, but I'm struggling through the first palace with almost no SP left and just wondering if it's worth it to take another day trying to get to the treasure, or spend another day on it. A little frustrated because everything I read says "blow through everything in one day, lol" but I've got no SP left and the last time I played, Joker got one-hit-killed on the first turn of combat by some horseman's double fang attack.

Any tips for early on to help me not suck so badly?

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Zore posted:

Eh, not really a fan of that. I like how they currently work in Persona where they're significant, but on a time limit.

I was never a fan of the multi-turn buffing to get anything significant in SMT, especially since it gets wiped out so easily. Plus I prefer the 'low level single target, high level multi' Persona has going on so you can actually meaningfully upgrade your buffs.

Yeah, I like Persona's style of buffing/debuffing (at least once the multi-target buffs become available) so I wouldn't want to mess with that.

Really, I wouldn't necessarily expect each Baton Pass chain to always reach a second or third pass. It'd be fine if there were situations where you really just need to Baton Pass to someone for a quick heal or Tetrakarn because the boss's turn is up next.

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

Rainuwastaken posted:

How important is it to recruit All The Personas? I've been making a point of grabbing one of each I find, but I didn't realize I had to bank them in the Velvet Room to register them.

You don't. First recruit automatically registers them. They have to enter your party though, so if you're full you can't catch and release.

Saint Freak
Apr 16, 2007

Regretting is an insult to oneself
Buglord

Rainuwastaken posted:

So I picked this game up the other day and, as a Persona noob, am completely overwhelmed. Couple questions.

How important is it to recruit All The Personas? I've been making a point of grabbing one of each I find, but I didn't realize I had to bank them in the Velvet Room to register them. Similarly, am I going to have to become a fusion guru in order to get anything done? The whole mechanic confuses the hell out of me right now, but that's probably because I'm level 9 and almost everything I can fuse is too high level for me. Resummoning guys from the register also seems....expensive.

Do I need to rush? I'm obviously not going to get 100% or anything on this run, but I'm struggling through the first palace with almost no SP left and just wondering if it's worth it to take another day trying to get to the treasure, or spend another day on it. A little frustrated because everything I read says "blow through everything in one day, lol" but I've got no SP left and the last time I played, Joker got one-hit-killed on the first turn of combat by some horseman's double fang attack.

Any tips for early on to help me not suck so badly?

You don't have to 'bank' anything in the velvet room

Fuse whatever, nothings bad

Summoning gets cheaper the more you register

Don't let the 'tism compel you to do everything in one day.

Scorps
Feb 24, 2008

Oh, lighten up Mr. Dooms-and-Gloom, "embezzle" is metal.

Rainuwastaken posted:

So I picked this game up the other day and, as a Persona noob, am completely overwhelmed. Couple questions.

How important is it to recruit All The Personas? I've been making a point of grabbing one of each I find, but I didn't realize I had to bank them in the Velvet Room to register them. Similarly, am I going to have to become a fusion guru in order to get anything done? The whole mechanic confuses the hell out of me right now, but that's probably because I'm level 9 and almost everything I can fuse is too high level for me. Resummoning guys from the register also seems....expensive.

Do I need to rush? I'm obviously not going to get 100% or anything on this run, but I'm struggling through the first palace with almost no SP left and just wondering if it's worth it to take another day trying to get to the treasure, or spend another day on it. A little frustrated because everything I read says "blow through everything in one day, lol" but I've got no SP left and the last time I played, Joker got one-hit-killed on the first turn of combat by some horseman's double fang attack.

Any tips for early on to help me not suck so badly?

This was my first Persona and I was in the same boat. You don't need to become an expert on Fusion, basically just keep a stock of Persona with a variety of elemental moves so you can switch to one with Fire for a fire weak enemy etc. You just don't need 2 of similar Persona just to have them. You don't have to register the Persona in the room, the only reason to do that is if you get a newer version of one you already had with a different move and you want that to be the "version" that you summon for $$.

The first palace is also extremely difficult, I think I spent honestly 3 or even 4 days on it. After the first palace it starts to get easier to finish them in 1 day but the first one is harsh since you don't really have anything to work with and are starting from scratch. One thing you will want to do is get the Doctor Confidant up to Rank 7 because she gives you a 50% discount at her shop on an accessory you can put on all your members that will regen 7 SP per combat turn and make it MUCH easier. Each accessory costs 50k with the discount so I'd advise keeping this in mind and trying to at least get one for Joker by the 3rd-ish palace.

Also something I saw people complain about in a different place, DO NOT leave sending the calling card until the last day, in fact in general don't ever leave the palace stuff until the end if you can help it. You need something like 3 days from finding the treasure in order to send the card and then steal his heart the day after, so don't go down to 1 or you will fail and be very sad.

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.

Motto posted:

You don't. First recruit automatically registers them. They have to enter your party though, so if you're full you can't catch and release.

That's probably what got me. I remember recruiting one of the little guys in a pot, but his skills looked uninteresting so I probably didn't actually take him with me. Then later when I looked at my register, he wasn't there. Wasn't aware he had to actually enter the party to register, so I will not make that mistake anymore!

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Rainuwastaken posted:

How important is it to recruit All The Personas? I've been making a point of grabbing one of each I find, but I didn't realize I had to bank them in the Velvet Room to register them. Similarly, am I going to have to become a fusion guru in order to get anything done? The whole mechanic confuses the hell out of me right now, but that's probably because I'm level 9 and almost everything I can fuse is too high level for me. Resummoning guys from the register also seems....expensive.

You don't need to recruit all of them. Anything you can recruit, you can also fuse.

Fusion is simpler than it looks. The most important thing to remember is that the outcome of a fusion is determined pretty much just by the Arcana of the two Personas you're fusing and those Personas' levels. Once you pick two Personas to fuse, you get to choose the skills that the new Persona inherits. Unless you're trying to fuse a specific Persona, like for a request from Caroline and Justine, just try to fuse things that look useful. Take a look at the options available to you (the "Fuse By Result" choice in the menu is helpful for this) and grab whatever looks cool to you. The one tip I'd suggest would be to make sure Joker has Personas that can cover elements your party members can't. For example, right now you have Ryuji (lightning), Ann (fire), and Morgana (wind), so it's helpful for Joker to have a Persona with ice spells.

There's also no shame in using a fusion calculator--as far as I know, pretty much everyone does for any Shin Megami Tensei or Persona game. Someone made a Persona 5 fusion calculator here. You can search by Persona to see combinations that will let you fuse that Persona, or even search for skills that you know you want to get (once you know that much) and see which Personas can learn those. It's a really helpful tool when you're hunting for specific Personas or useful skills.

Rainuwastaken posted:

Do I need to rush? I'm obviously not going to get 100% or anything on this run, but I'm struggling through the first palace with almost no SP left and just wondering if it's worth it to take another day trying to get to the treasure, or spend another day on it. A little frustrated because everything I read says "blow through everything in one day, lol" but I've got no SP left and the last time I played, Joker got one-hit-killed on the first turn of combat by some horseman's double fang attack.

If you're not trying to 100% everything, there's no need to rush. Don't force yourself through a Palace in one day if it's not fun for you or if you're really struggling. The first Palace is honestly one of the hardest ones, too, so don't feel like it's always going to be like this.

For reference, I managed to max all of the confidant ranks by the end of the game with a couple days to spare and I was not at all playing super-efficiently and I didn't follow a guide. What I mean is that you can take a couple days per Palace no problem, especially if you're not aiming to max everything out in one run.

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