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Also calling it that Savitar is a time remnant Barry from when Emo Flash tried to save Iris by creating time remnants. He said "He killed them all......mostly" and it fits with the dark and depressing nonstop angst that The Flash is now by having Barry be the bad guy and facing his demons or whatever the gently caress. He is also dumb enough to convince himself that killing Iris is the right thing to do somehow.
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Apr 26, 2017 10:42
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Flash at this point is basically a case study in How Not to Do a Superhero Show. How to ruin a likable lead character. How to squander a talented, charismatic cast. How to confuse and frustrate your audience by making all your characters idiots. How to make great villains boring. How to make one of the most powerful heroes in DC comics look like the world's biggest jobber.
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Apr 26, 2017 16:49
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I'm on board with Savitar being a Time Remnant given what Emo Flash said, though I still hope it's the OG Flash from before Thawne started time-loving. So, if I get this right, you can change the past no problem, but changing the future is nigh-impossible, even though past and future are relative to the frame of reference to the person in that time. Barry's literally changed the past multiple multiple times now, but the future resists change; inexplicably Emo Flash never tried to fix the far more mutable past it seems. Also, this seems to trash the timeline again. The future newspaper still said that Flash disappeared after a Crisis, just the byline with different. Presumably that means it was a recent article, yet now we learn that Flash stopped the superhero gig about 2020 after the speed force trap was made. I love Barry sitting at a table writing all sorts of equations just to come to the conclusion that he needs to go to 2024.
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Apr 26, 2017 17:37
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Mortanis posted:I'm on board with Savitar being a Time Remnant given what Emo Flash said, though I still hope it's the OG Flash from before Thawne started time-loving. Yeah that equation scene was great. Pumping out some theoretical physics and line graphs to figure out that he needs to travel to the future to get future knowledge. Also Emo Barry was dumb precisely because of the show's concept of time travel. He should have tried to change the past. He could have captured savitar before he ever killed Iris, and erased his timeline. Due to the writing though either future barry is incredibly stupid and never thought of that or the writers didn't. It's the problem they have in the comics because The Flash should be one of the most powerful people in the universe with all of his various powers, but they have to write him as really dumb and use convoluted logic to work around him being completely overpowered.
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Apr 26, 2017 17:51
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ubachung posted:Didn't they handwave this a while ago? He has a holographic disguise which he magically adjusted so team flash sees his real face. Are... are we seeing through the holographic disguise on the pictures of him on the cover of his book?
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Apr 26, 2017 17:56
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"Ah ha! I have found you Top!" (remember Barry don't look at her eyes, don't look at her eyes) *looks at her eyes* "poo poo."
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Apr 26, 2017 17:58
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 I tried literally everything possible to save her and it's impossible. No way to save her. did you go back in time and get Ray's suit, then shrink down and try and assassinate him unnoticed? No Did you go back in time and tell yourself that instead of chopping savitars little sword blade off that you should instead stick your hand into his heart? No How many time remnants did you create? Like 2,000? So that you could just pile savitar under like 20,000 pounds of Barry Allen and kill him in about 30 different ways due to the numbers? No Okay so you used those anti-speedster weapons the army used on you? Maybe stick them under the tile you knew for 4 months he would be standing on? No Did you take Velocity 7, that ultra dangerous super speedster drug? No Did you get the help of the indestructible Super Girl? No What about those speedforce nanites you used on thawne? No If you didn't ask Super Girl for help what about the other 37 superheroes you know, Did you ask them? No What did you do I ran faster gently caress you did try everything possible.
Space Crabs fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 18:00
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Space Crabs posted:
Just grab that little "speed dampener" Cisco made. IT WAS RIGHT THERE! GAWDAMN BARRY!
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Apr 26, 2017 18:01
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Ugh, that was the worst part. This show really only works if you pretend everyone on Earth-1 has an IQ 50 points lower than usual. e: "Two against one, Flash!"  "I'll gently caress you both right in the face no problem" *instantly gets whammied by the same thing they did ten minutes ago and only survives due to unexpected backup* Phenotype fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 18:10
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"Looks like Mirror Master and Top are at it again"
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Apr 26, 2017 18:30
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Y'know what's really annoying? "a villain you can't look in the eye" is a pretty loving old concept. Literally, a classic monster. And what's the old fashioned way to defeat her? Using a loving mirror They had all the pieces there for a great, clever, super powered twist on Medusa, but instead they just had a science thing fix everything.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:36
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Phenotype posted:Are... are we seeing through the holographic disguise on the pictures of him on the cover of his book? Your TV has a holographic filter installed, now. 
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Apr 26, 2017 18:48
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I still like the show and think it's fun but the writing has gone completely off the rails. I'm willing to gleefully shout SPEEDFORCE to handle all the ridiculous comic book bullshit, but there's no real excuse for making everyone bone stupid in this episode. He's already in the future. There's literally no reason he can't cruise back to scientist lady on his way back through time and go "sup now that you're done how does this doohickey work." The writing's completely fallen apart at this point. I don't know how they fix this, because after Savitar's dealt with, there's not a whole lot of options for villains that aren't retreads. Eobard's the only good option imo and he's currently busy not existing, so.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:51
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at least with that kind of writing we know the Savitar plot is almost over. Barry doesn't need to do the 500 different things he could have done in the future to win. He got the thumb drive, that'll let him unmask himself or robbie or prometheus or whoever the gently caress before he decides to run back in time and create a second flashpoint or whatever else could be considered the dumbest thing alive.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:07
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They need a villain whose end goal isn't kill Barry. That's a terrible goal for a 22 episode season, because it just means there's a bunch of faffing around until the end, where, surprise surprise, Barry doesn't die. It also makes it hard to see Barry as a positive force in the world, when everything bad that happens is the result of some dude loving with Barry.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:17
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it would be amazing if they had an episode which was just barry repeatedly going back in time and trying different things to kill savitar.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:46
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Chokes McGee posted:The writing's completely fallen apart at this point. I don't know how they fix this, because after Savitar's dealt with, there's not a whole lot of options for villains that aren't retreads. Eobard's the only good option imo and he's currently busy not existing, so. Spoilers for next season I thiiiiiiiink they've said the lady who invents the Speedforce trap is going to be a recurring villain next season, but I also might've misread the press release.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:58
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Bozart posted:it would be amazing if they had an episode which was just barry repeatedly going back in time and trying different things to kill savitar. That would probably be the best received episode since Season 1 and explain Emo Barry absolutely making GBS threads all over the idea of even trying to save Iris. Intead of just "I tried like two or three things man, it's hopeless" have callbacks and cameos. All you need is to move some of the hanging sheets of glass or whatever in that one warehouse all the shows use and take a photo with the Green Arrow and Supergirl. CGI some laser eyes from her at the camera while oliver fires arrows and go "In the end, nothing worked. I tried for months, or years maybe it's hard to tell, every possible permutation I could think of. Thousands of times seeing her die." Too bad it's going to come across that all the characters are really stupid because the writers didn't feel like expanding on the plot in sensible areas, so you have future Barry refusing to help save iris for no reason, while Current Barry refuses to put much effort forth into saving Iris because it's already been planned out on a whiteboard that he gets the thumbdrive in episode 19, meets the doctor in episode 20, saves someone in episode 21 and beats savitar in episode 23 before an end of season twist like Eddie showing up shirtless on a robotic horse or something. My alternate theory for Savitar is one I already posted, Jay from the speedforce prison. The main reason I think this is they gave Savitar a kinda pot bellied look that old flash has been rocking lately since he is getting that sweet TV money again.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:26
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Can someone explain exactly HOW Barry figured out that 2024 was the right year to go to? Do we just have to assume that Barry figured it out by doing all those crazy calculations in that notebook of his?
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Apr 26, 2017 23:03
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Vietnamwees posted:Can someone explain exactly HOW Barry figured out that 2024 was the right year to go to? Do we just have to assume that Barry figured it out by doing all those crazy calculations in that notebook of his? I assume he did a bunch of made up math that meant nothing, got a number that kind of made sense and then decided to go!
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Apr 26, 2017 23:13
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Vietnamwees posted:Can someone explain exactly HOW Barry 
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Apr 26, 2017 23:39
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Chokes McGee posted:I still like the show and think it's fun but the writing has gone completely off the rails. I'm willing to gleefully shout SPEEDFORCE to handle all the ridiculous comic book bullshit, but there's no real excuse for making everyone bone stupid in this episode. Next season's big villain is rumored to be The Thinker. Also you forgot the best villain: The Trickster (Hamil) who's largely unavailable due to another commitment where one co-star got killed off and another died IRL.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:47
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So what are the theories on Savitar. Robbie? Alternate future Flashpoint Barry?
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Apr 27, 2017 01:22
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Hollismason posted:So what are the theories on Savitar. Robbie? Alternate future Flashpoint Barry? I'm thinking Robbie. No one else would have made Caitlin/Killer Frost go from "gently caress you, you're not the boss of me!" to "Whatever you say" that quickly.
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Apr 27, 2017 02:16
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Vietnamwees posted:Can someone explain exactly HOW Barry figured out that 2024 was the right year to go to? Do we just have to assume that Barry figured it out by doing all those crazy calculations in that notebook of his? I'm pretty sure the calculations were about how Barry could flash-forwards to the right time, and he wrote 2024 because he figured out where he wanted to aim for. Aim for a short time before the "Flash Vanishes in Crisis" headline, and you get there after Savitar was trapped but while Barry's still around to ask.
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Apr 27, 2017 02:39
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Bruceski posted:I'm pretty sure the calculations were about how Barry could flash-forwards to the right time, and he wrote 2024 because he figured out where he wanted to aim for. Aim for a short time before the "Flash Vanishes in Crisis" headline, and you get there after Savitar was trapped but while Barry's still around to ask. So, take the date on the headline from the future newspaper, subtract 6 months or a year, and go there. I just figured it out using way less math.
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Apr 27, 2017 03:28
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McGann posted:Man, I really need to get up to speed on S2 of Legends Watch it, it's the best DC show this season by a mile.
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Apr 27, 2017 05:13
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hangedman1984 posted:I'm thinking Robbie. No one else would have made Caitlin/Killer Frost go from "gently caress you, you're not the boss of me!" to "Whatever you say" that quickly. Any of the writers would
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Apr 27, 2017 05:33
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I always thought it was weird that the only part of the Flash Vanishes in Crisis news article that changed was the author's name that would mean that a completely different person with different life experiences and schooling managed to write and publish a full-page news story perfectly verbatim to what Iris West would have written there are better odds that either Iris plagiarized it, or the new author is just Iris with a different name
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Apr 27, 2017 06:21
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Phenotype posted:So, take the date on the headline from the future newspaper, subtract 6 months or a year, and go there. I just figured it out using way less math. That's what he did. The equations on the side are "how do I land at 2024 and not 50 years later".
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Apr 27, 2017 06:40
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Space Crabs posted:Also Emo Barry was dumb precisely because of the show's concept of time travel. He should have tried to change the past. He could have captured savitar before he ever killed Iris, and erased his timeline.
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Apr 27, 2017 07:56
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LentThem posted:I always thought it was weird that the only part of the Flash Vanishes in Crisis news article that changed was the author's name It turns out that in 2024 automatization of office jobs has gotten so far that the journalists getting their name on the article is just a formality.
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Apr 27, 2017 08:08
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I see the soon-to-be-retired wig from Arrow has found a home in the future after a style change and dye job. It's cool that Tom Cavanaugh got to direct an episode. This is only the fourth episode of television he's directed since 3 episodes of Ed way back when. I was pretty strong on the Savitar being Barry thing because of the whole "he was the original speedster", but now after Killer Frost's reaction, it's got me wondering. Ronnie makes sense, but it also seems weird, and not as personal for Barry and everyone but Caitlin. Also it feels like forever since Ronnie disappeared. And now that you all have mentioned it, a Groundhog Day-esque episode where Barry tries many variations to beat Savitar before killing Iris would have been really cool. Done in the style of that X-Files episode where either Mulder or Scully (can't remember) are the only one who realize they're in a timeloop trying to stop a bank robbery from going completely bad. Seem like we're so far 0 for 2 on CWDCTV return episodes (in my opinion) after a too-long hiatus. (Haven't watched Arrow yet. I'm guessing it's the most likely to win out anyway with how it's been lately.) howe_sam posted:You'd think Cisco would be more pumped about having robot hands. I was just waiting for the immediate Star Wars quip from Cisco, but alas, it never came.
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Apr 27, 2017 09:02
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Hollismason posted:So what are the theories on Savitar. Robbie? Alternate future Flashpoint Barry? Zoom. Remember how at the end of last season he wasn't actually killed, just taken into the speedforce by the time wraiths or whatever? Also he's blue, he's already a speedster, he hates the poo poo out of Barry, he's been known to disguise his voice and put on stupid outfits before, and he's the evilest of Caitlin's ex-boyfriends. That or they could just handwave the whole thing and be like, "Hey, remember how Zoom can totally make time remnants and that was his whole deal? Well it turns out..."
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Apr 27, 2017 09:13
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I hope Savitar is Eddie, and after confronting him we get a "Hey Bear" in evil robotman voice.
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Apr 27, 2017 09:15
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teamcharlie posted:Zoom. Remember how at the end of last season he wasn't actually killed, just taken into the speedforce by the time wraiths or whatever? Also he's blue, he's already a speedster, he hates the poo poo out of Barry, he's been known to disguise his voice and put on stupid outfits before, and he's the evilest of Caitlin's ex-boyfriends. It's probably not Zoom. Zoom got turned into Black Flash when the Time Wraiths dragged him into the Speedforce and he showed up repeatedly on Legends of Tomorrow this year as a hosed up speed zombie trying to chase Eobard across all of history and microwave his time remnant rear end. Plus Teddy Sears is on 24: Legacy now (I don't know if his character's still alive there, I haven't watched any of it since the pilot), and I don't think they wrapped production in time for him to get back to Vancouver. I say it's Eddie back from the time hole. Just because, well, gently caress we need Rick Cosnett back on Flash, badly.
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Apr 27, 2017 09:30
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teamcharlie posted:Zoom. Remember how at the end of last season he wasn't actually killed, just taken into the speedforce by the time wraiths or whatever? Also he's blue, he's already a speedster, he hates the poo poo out of Barry, he's been known to disguise his voice and put on stupid outfits before, and he's the evilest of Caitlin's ex-boyfriends. I was thinking Zoom due to his relationship with Caitlin/Killer Frost, but I find it really hard to believe the writers would bring him back and make him the secret of the big bad after the reception last season got. nine-gear crow posted:It's probably not Zoom. Zoom got turned into Black Flash when the Time Wraiths dragged him into the Speedforce and he showed up repeatedly on Legends of Tomorrow this year as a hosed up speed zombie trying to chase Eobard across all of history and microwave his time remnant rear end. Also this Black Flash thing. I didn't mention the  thing because he could've had time to do both if he was only going to be on the last few episodes of The Flash, so I think it's irrelevant.
Longbaugh01 fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 09:31
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Longbaugh01 posted:I was thinking Zoom due to his relationship with Caitlin/Killer Frost, but I find it really hard to believe the writers would bring him back and make him the secret of the big bad after the reception last season got. Let's assume for the moment that the writers aren't brain geniuses and might very well do something that the audience thinks is stupid/sucks out of sheer convenience. Literally all they need to do is say that the Zoom who got wrecked by the time wraiths and thrown into the speed force was himself another time remnant, something that we 100% know is one of Zoom's powers. Then the real Zoom was just hanging out, stole yet another speed-enhancing technology from someplace, and came back to try to wreck Barry's life again. Yes, like everybody else I want him to be Eddie. Unfortunately, I think that requires way too much explanation (how is it you still exist? Where did you get your powers? Why are you even trying to kill Iris? How the gently caress is the audience supposed to like you if you decided to straight up murder your ex girlfriend/fan favorite Candice Patton?) for them to bother. Edit: also, why is it a problem that Black Flash was on Legends? Dude's a time traveler. He can travel back in time at any point in time, and is still always in the speedforce (depending on how the writers want time travel to work) ready and waiting for Flash to free him in order to get some revenge. teamcharlie fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 09:46
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I'm not sure I buy that the Black Flash is Zoom/Hunter just because they both wear similar/the same costumes. I mean, its possible, but it could just as easily be a sloppy comic adaption with no intended connection beyond the overall Flash one. But also, yeah, even if Black Flash IS Zoom/Hunter I don't see how that keeps Savitar from being a Zoom/Hunter from some other timeline or period in time or time remanent or escaped from the Speedforce or whatever nonsense they used to justify Thawne on Legends or him showing back up in Flashpoint. The one consistent thing I understand about Flash timetravel/speedster logic is if you're still trying to make sense of it then the joke is on you. edit: I have no idea who Savitar is. Zoom/Hunter is as good a guess as any but I hate this kind of speculation because it only leads to people being underwhelmed when they guess right or disappointed if they thought of something better. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 09:58
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What? He was turned into the black flash on-screen...
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Apr 27, 2017 10:08
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