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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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Calibanibal posted:a simple query for the extremist dirtbag leftists itt: if obama is taking this money unethically then why, praytell, havent the pupils of his eyes transformed into giant cartoon $$'s? just curious Mmm a sick burn to that extremist 47 percent of the country that finds this distasteful
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Apr 26, 2017 21:02
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Condiv posted:you sure love republican trade bills and republican policies a bunch. you sure you're not a republican? "You sure do love free trade are you sure you're not right wing?" okay then. My point still stands btw.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:02
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icantfindaname posted:The pre-ACA healthcare system was functional. Jim Crow was functional. If 'functional' is your standard you may as well drop the pretense and admit you don't believe in a single one of the goals of liberals or the left more broadly, and that you're just here to troll Bernie voters Are you comparing Obamacare to jim crow here? I don't get it. Obamacare needs participating health care companies to work. The healthcare conference Obama is speaking at is designed to connect health care companies with investors. If you think Obamacare death spiraling is a bad thing, obama giving this speech is a good thing. Majorian contends no bernie supporters think the failure of Obamacare would be a good thing, so I guess I'm "trolling" the pretend Bernie supporters? Pedro De Heredia posted:Of all the ideological conflicts to have, this is the least ideological. Being against cozy relationships between politicians and big business should not be ideological. It is not something that should just 'anger the Sanders wing'. Everyone should be bothered by this kind of thing (and, in fact, most people who are not devoted to specific politicians/parties do get bothered by it). I don't agree with the characterization of the relationship as cozy here. Obama's giving a speech that will actively support his policies. He's getting paid as much as he would by any institution.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:04
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SSNeoman posted:"You sure do love free trade are you sure you're not right wing?" nope, cause it's argued based off of a republican/libertarian view of trade where if we aren't circumventing workers rights hard enough everyone goes out of business that's the problem with borrowing from republican ideology, they don't actual design their policies to help people. and NAFTA is a republican trade bill. and citizen's united was a republican ruling, but you like to cite its judgement to defend corrupt obama therefore, i'm p sure you're just a confused republican and not a democrat
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Apr 26, 2017 21:06
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trying to make me cry tears over lovely republican union busting legislation is pretty lol, especially since you couch it as protecting people, when we all know that republican legislation is designed to sap the wealth from the poor as quick as possible can't wait till future threads where you're defending trump's border wall
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Apr 26, 2017 21:10
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JeffersonClay posted:Are you comparing Obamacare to jim crow here? I don't get it. Obamacare needs participating health care companies to work. The healthcare conference Obama is speaking at is designed to connect health care companies with investors. If you think Obamacare death spiraling is a bad thing, obama giving this speech is a good thing. I've highlighted the part where you make a massive, unsupported leap of faith for your convenience. What about connecting health care companies with investors indicates that they are going to do so in a way that supports Obamacare? I seem to recall the last time Obama and the centrist dems trusted that the financial industry would support their policies out of gratitude they were quite rudely surprised.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:23
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ssneoman on getting rid of mass incarceration: "what about all the prison guards and private prison operators this will put out of a job!? you don't care about poor people!!"
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Apr 26, 2017 21:24
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Bankrupt the insurance industry. It's a dying relic of the old economy. Retrain the workers to build solar panels.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:32
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all you extreme leftists realize that bernie has a checking account w/ People's United Bank and once a month when he goes in to deposit all the loose change he found they give him a free lollipop, right? where is the indignation over that?
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Apr 26, 2017 21:32
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Condiv posted:nope, cause it's argued based off of a republican/libertarian view of trade where if we aren't circumventing workers rights hard enough everyone goes out of business Well well well do my eyes deceive me or did you actually make a good post? Holy poo poo. Yes, you're absolutely right, that's the main problem with NAFTA. It offers no protections for jobs. Jobs were going out of the country at the time and NAFTA did indeed exacerbate the problem. The issue is that we're now dependent on NAFTA and I'd argue repealing it will do more harm than good. Nevertheless, yes that is true. Condiv posted:that's the problem with borrowing from republican ideology, they don't actual design their policies to help people. and NAFTA is a republican trade bill. and citizen's united was a republican ruling, but you like to cite its judgement to defend corrupt obama I love the narrative you've built around me. I never cited CU, I never even implied it. Keep in mind, I'm crestfallen if NAFTA goes poof, but I can deal. I really like free trade, it's good poo poo and future policies could learn from its mistakes. I'd go for establishing strong unions instead, but c'est la vie. But if NAFTA gets repealed, you're gutting all the jobs rural people live on. And that's fine by me, more people to vote for leftists once their world comes crashing down, but don't turn around and pretend you give a poo poo about the yokels in Kansas because you're such a bleeding heart true leftist. Calibanibal posted:all you extreme leftists realize that bernie has a checking account w/ People's United Bank and once a month when he goes in to deposit all the loose change he found they give him a free lollipop, right? where is the indignation over that? Oh I can field this one! http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house People lost their poo poo over BERNIE BUYING A THIRD HOUSE!!! back in 2016. I hate extreme leftists. The right wing gives them a freshly bought gun, claim it's the smoking gun, and the left instantly blow their own brains out. VV This but unironically. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:38
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Bankrupt the insurance industry. It's a dying relic of the old economy. Retrain the workers to build solar panels. In a gulag
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Apr 26, 2017 21:41
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SSNeoman posted:Well well well do my eyes deceive me or did you actually make a good post? Holy poo poo. i argue we can't know for sure because both parties have resolved to loving over workers and the dems are doing poo poo like defending presidents and prospective presidents taking millions from private firms that destroyed the economy like, i might believe some of the globalization bullshit if it weren't coming from the same people saying we prosecuted everyone we could for the 2008 financial crisis (and the ensuing scandals involving banks continuing to dick people over) quote:I love the narrative you've built around me. I never cited CU, I never even implied it. actually... SSNeoman posted:Prove it motherfucker otherwise this is all hearsay I could read on breitbart. this reasoning that corruption is only a thing if you can prove quid pro quo is the lovely reasoning chief justice roberts used in citizens united! quote:Keep in mind, I'm crestfallen if NAFTA goes poof, but I can deal. I really like free trade, it's good poo poo and future policies could learn from its mistakes. I'd go for establishing strong unions instead, but c'est la vie. i'm not anti-trade, but free-trade like we've got only serves the purpose of enriching the ultra-wealthy and making sure there's not a country in the world where the poor enjoy a standard of living above war-torn africa. if we had free-trade policies that only kicked in if the other country had worker protections equivalent to or stronger than our own that would be good, but that ignores the reason free-trade was pushed in the first place (to destroy organized labor) Condiv fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:55
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SSNeoman posted:I hate extreme leftists. The right wing gives them a freshly bought gun, claim it's the smoking gun, and the left instantly blow their own brains out. And this really cuts to the core of it, doesn't it? I won't deny that there's a really tiny minority of dumb leftists, but I think you need to take some time and ask yourself why they bother you so much. There are plenty of different stupid people of every possibly ideology, so why is it that ignorant leftists bother you so much? For whatever flaws they may have, it makes at least some sense for leftists to express displeasure at the Democratic establishment, because (by virtue of being the establishment) they hold actual power and influence. But the "extreme" leftists you speak of have virtually no political influence, and generally aren't people who would otherwise be voting Democratic anyways (most of the dumbest leftists either don't vote or vote for people like Stein or whatever). I can't think of any practical reason to be so disproportionately angered by them. Even in the worst cases, they usually generally want good things and just use dumb arguments when advocating for those things. Why attack them when there exist a bunch of people who want actual bad things and/or have actual power? At risk of sounding condescending, I used to have these feelings until I did some soul searching and realized that I was motivated almost entirely by a superficial disgust at the perceived stupidity and naivety of some of the dumber leftists at my college. There wasn't really any rational reason for me to be so disproportionately put off by them, so I finally managed to shake off that mindset after repeatedly reminding myself "it makes no sense for these people to be bothering me so much."
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Apr 26, 2017 22:11
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These "extreme leftists" are milquetoast motherfuckers who just wish their leaders had moral integrity. I'm genuinely sorry if you think that's too much to ask, but you are part of the problem.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:29
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SSNeoman posted:Oh I can field this one! http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house The people who were complaining about Bernie Sanders buying a third house, or his wife's career, were largely Hillary Clinton supporters who, since they could not really defend her, preferred to make it look like everyone was corrupt and out of touch.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:39
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Ytlaya posted:And this really cuts to the core of it, doesn't it? I won't deny that there's a really tiny minority of dumb leftists, but I think you need to take some time and ask yourself why they bother you so much. There are plenty of different stupid people of every possibly ideology, so why is it that ignorant leftists bother you so much? So if you say e.g. "I'm going to vote for the most left wing candidate on the ballot regardless of party" they are right there to either browbeat you into compliance or, failing that, announce that you shall have no further influence on the direction and the politics of the party. They're basically petit bourgeois fuckheads in a political sense, and ought to share the fate of the actual petit bourgeois, which I leave as an exercise for the reader.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:42
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Ze Pollack posted:I've highlighted the part where you make a massive, unsupported leap of faith for your convenience. You're right, I cannot prove what the outcome of a future event will be. But that's not really important, right? The story is plausible. Private companies offer policies on the Obamacare exchanges. More companies offering plans is good, fewer is bad. To expand their offerings, insurance companies need investment. This conference connects healthcare investors with healthcare companies. It's not complicated. Obama, by headlining the event, has an opportunity to speak to these companies and investors. Can we know what he intends to say? No. But it's likely to be something like "Y'all need to make sure Obamacare works or the government's going to take over when it fails". Gratitude has nothing to do with it-- he'll appeal to their sense of self-preservation. There's no risk that this investment conference will result in less funding for companies participating in the Obamacare exchanges, only the risk that it will result in investment in these companies that will allow them to expand and/or maintain their offerings. And that's a good thing (unless you're an accelerationist who wants Obamacare to fail).
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Apr 26, 2017 22:43
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Wishing death on people because they disagree with you online. Truly The Enlightened Left.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:47
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Liberals are happy to wish death on people because they aren't needed in their Grand Coalition, and therefore disposable / in the way, so whatevs.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:48
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Nevvy Z posted:Wishing death on people because they disagree with you online. Truly The Enlightened Left. i agree. it sucked when someone said they wished they could vote for fascists so they would kill me
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Apr 26, 2017 22:50
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steinrokkan posted:Liberals are happy to wish death on people because they aren't needed in their Grand Coalition, and therefore disposable / in the way, so whatevs. I don't know who those liberals were but two wrongs something something
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Apr 26, 2017 22:52
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Nevvy Z posted:Wishing death on people because they disagree with you online. Truly The Enlightened Left. As opposed to neo-libs who get off on droning striking folks and actually killing people.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:52
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Nevvy Z posted:I don't know who those liberals were but two wrongs something something If you can hold people responsible for the words of some unknown strangers, so can I.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:55
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JeffersonClay posted:You're right, I cannot prove what the outcome of a future event will be. But that's not really important, right? The story is plausible. Private companies offer policies on the Obamacare exchanges. More companies offering plans is good, fewer is bad. To expand their offerings, insurance companies need investment. This conference connects healthcare investors with healthcare companies. It's not complicated. They're paying him to speak for them. Not the other way around. Why do you assume that Obama, having accepted eight times the median american household's yearly income to speak for these people, is going to for the first time in eight years give any backtalk whatsoever to the people on whom his future speaking engagement career depends. Your fanfiction version of Obama did not exist at any point in the last decade, when he was even hypothetically capable of making good on the threat you imagine him delivering. What in the world possesses you to think yes, now that his quality of life going forward is explicitly dependant on cashing these people's checks, NOW he's going to bring the thunder?
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Apr 26, 2017 22:54
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Nevvy Z posted:Wishing death on people because they disagree with you online. Truly The Enlightened Left. Goodness, Nevvy. Coming from you that sounds a mite hypocritical.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:55
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Ze Pollack posted:Goodness, Nevvy. Coming from you that sounds a mite hypocritical. At least Killroy was tasteful Nevvy Z posted:This is an incredibly disgusting mischaracterization of what he said and you are a lovely fuckhead who should kill yourself IRL. Just shameful really
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Apr 26, 2017 22:56
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Once again, Obama has had eight years + to chastise the greedy and the corrupt, he did nothing, he even recently rewarded many of them with nice positions in his new foundation. When will you finally give up your hope that he will stand up to somebody.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:57
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Ze Pollack posted:Goodness, Nevvy. Coming from you that sounds a mite hypocritical. You got a post that backs that completely false accusation? Stein, I'm clearly talking about Kilroys post not a vague conceptual Leftist.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:57
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Nevvy Z posted:Wishing death on people because they disagree with you online. Truly The Enlightened Left. I know that in some circles it's more fashionable to cause suffering and death merely indirectly and with as much plausible deniability as you can. I gotta stay true to myself, though 
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Apr 26, 2017 22:58
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Ytlaya posted:And this really cuts to the core of it, doesn't it? I won't deny that there's a really tiny minority of dumb leftists, but I think you need to take some time and ask yourself why they bother you so much. There are plenty of different stupid people of every possibly ideology, so why is it that ignorant leftists bother you so much? I love how you make this post then in the same breath you get steinrokkan posted:These "extreme leftists" are milquetoast motherfuckers who just wish their leaders had moral integrity. I'm genuinely sorry if you think that's too much to ask, but you are part of the problem. Pedro De Heredia posted:The people who were complaining about Bernie Sanders buying a third house, or his wife's career, were largely Hillary Clinton supporters who, since they could not really defend her, preferred to make it look like everyone was corrupt and out of touch. This thread in three acts. I am pissed off at these people because we're supposed to be the intelligent side. We're not supposed to jump on every hot take like the right wing do. We don't throw around words like RINO and cuckservative. Our decisions are supposed to be nuanced. Right now we need more political power. Our side is getting its rear end kicked and we're playing leftist musical chairs. The posts above are a case in point. I have no doubt in my loving mind the original post was some Republican shithead going "look Bernie has a THIRD HOUSE!  " and instead of going "Okay yeah so what he's a politician. politicians make money. For your next trick, prove water's wet." we decide to lose our poo poo. He's not a true leftist, he takes money, etc...And you think the other side doesn't know this? Bullshit. They know exactly what they're doing when they chum the waters with this kind of crap. Even now, you think it's an accident that Ann Coulter has caused yet another protest in Berkeley? gently caress no! This was a calculated ploy! Look at the intolerant leftists, not letting the think tank-funded right-winger speak on a campus. And instead of staying in solidarity and going "yeah gently caress her she's a piece of poo poo" we instantly lose our balls and go "well everyone deserves to speak..." Republicans keep throwing these wedges at us, and we keep obediently jamming them in our knee. And I'd really rather we didn't. poo poo, not 5 pages ago you dumb fucks tried to start some CENTRIST conspiracy theory starring Tim Kaine. Even though the man is what every religious politician should aspire to be. Your proof was irrelevant, but nevertheless you persisted. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 22:59
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Nevvy Z posted:You got a post that backs that completely false accusation? oh wow, :the joke: much? Sometimes pragmatic centrism demands people kill themselves for pointing out what happens when they abandon red states. I'm sure there are some very sensible reasons for that brand of demanding death for disagreement, though.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:03
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Ze Pollack posted:Sometimes pragmatic centrism demands people kill themselves for pointing out what happens when they abandon red states. If you can't tell the difference between my post and Kilroys that's on you dumdum.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:05
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Nevvy Z posted:If you can't tell the difference between my post and Kilroys that's on you dumdum. When you demand the death of someone pointing out the human cost of your politics, it is pragmatic centrism. When Kilroy demands the death of people who disagree with him, it is proof his ideas are to be discarded. You so rarely see the moderate's core position so beautifully illuminated: all other harms must be considered wholly subordinate to not making Nevvy Z feel bad.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:09
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SSNeoman posted:I love how you make this post then in the same breath you get Not admitting own mistakes is not nuance, it's trickery, obfuscation, denial... And it leads to lost elections, loss of credibility, record public disapproval... Nuance would mean admitting to mistakes and missteps and inviting a discussion to address them in an open spirit where every point of view would be considered in good faith. Believe it or not, some people are not getting concerned just to get hot takes, they are simply worried by the endless string of dem gently caress ups and mistakes that keep compounding each other and destroying the party, and which can only be explained by arrogance and complacency.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:09
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Ze Pollack posted:When you demand the death of someone pointing out the human cost of your politics, it is pragmatic centrism. Context: not a thing according to ze Pollack. Ignored. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 26, 2017 23:12
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Nevvy Z posted:If you can't tell the difference between my post and Kilroys that's on you dumdum. But yeah, there is a difference. You're calling directly for the death of someone who earnestly advocated against abandoning entire states to the fascists. I'm calling for Something Bad To Happen to people who aren't so much concerned about the rise of fascism just as long as they don't acquire enough power to start doing actual political purges. (FYI, with idiots like you leading the opposition, they will acquire this power.)
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Apr 26, 2017 23:13
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SSNeoman posted:I am pissed off at these people because we're supposed to be the intelligent side. We're not supposed to jump on every hot take like the right wing do. We don't throw around words like RINO and cuckservative. Our decisions are supposed to be nuanced. Right now we need more political power. Our side is getting its rear end kicked and we're playing leftist musical chairs. The problem is that there does not exist a political "side" that doesn't have people making dumb/incorrect/exaggerated/etc statements. It's not like there are some leftists saying dumb things as opposed to (insert non-existent political faction). It is always easy to find people saying things that are wrong, and different types of wrong are more understandable and excusable than others (for example people being wrong when advocating for something that is generally good and understandable is better than people being wrong when talking about why scientific racism is true or something). You are also free to choose how to respond to other people saying things you think are wrong. Some of the posters, like Majorian and myself, have disagreed on multiple occasions with some of the other leftists in this thread. The difference is that it is really obvious that we aren't openly hostile towards them, while a sense of hostility and condescension is palpable with posts like yours. It's obvious that you personally dislike leftists, rather than just disagreeing with them. People generally behave differently when disagreeing with people who they otherwise consider "on their side", and your speech/behavior clearly signals that you don't just disagree with but are fundamentally opposed to the people you're addressing. As I think I've mentioned before, most people have a tendency to treat stupidity/ignorance in defense of the status quo much more kindly than stupidity/ignorance attacking it. The same people who frequently attack leftists in threads like this are usually silent about dumb pro-Clinton liberals or liberals who voted for Clinton because they thought she'd make it like the 90's again. This is likely because those two dumb/ignorant views are generally intended towards the ends of supporting a mainstream political group (in this case mainstream Democrats). But ultimately such views actually aren't any less dumb than a leftist who thinks Clinton is exceptionally corrupt or whatever. Honestly though, I think the most important point here is that the main problem isn't so much that you disagree with some of the people in this thread, but you do so in a way that doesn't even attempt to hide your bizarre, overexaggerated contempt and condescension. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 23:17
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Centrists ironically call for the death of opponents like this, but leftists unironically call for the death of opponents like this.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:18
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Kilroy posted:Centrists ironically call for the death of opponents like this, but leftists unironically call for the death of opponents like this. Ironic calls for death and serious calls for death. Equivalent according to the person doing it seriously.
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Apr 26, 2017 23:20
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Nevvy Z posted:Context: not a thing according to ze Pollack. Ignored. https://twitter.com/dril/status/653442336505114624
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Apr 26, 2017 23:21
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