|
I ran a pathfinder game briefly and I gave soft failures to close misses, the players seemed to like that and it softened missing a roll by 1.
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 04:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
Petr posted:All I want is 2nd ed without THAC0, is that too much to ask? A couple of ideas: 1. Adopt Target20 Take the number 20, and subtract your THAC0 from it. That is now your "Base Attack Bonus". An attack roll then becomes: d20 + Base Attack Bonus + target's AC + all other modifiers >= 20 That is, if the final result is 20 or higher, then you hit. Consider a level 4 Level 4 Fighters have a THAC0 of 17. [20-17=3], so their BAB is +3 A Strength of 18/52 provides a to-hit bonus of +2 A +1 longsword provides a to-hit bonus of +1 If they're attacking a target with an AC of 6, then the attack roll is d20 +3 BAB +6 target AC +2 Strength +1 longsword, aiming to get a final result of 20 or higher If they rolled an 11, that's a a final result of 23, so they hit If they rolled a 5, that's a final result of 17, so they miss If the target was behind 50% cover, then the attack roll is d20 +3 BAB +6 target AC +2 Strength +1 longsword -4 cover If they rolled an 11, that's a final result of 19, so they miss Basically, you convert the THAC0 into BAB, and then include a target's AC into the equation as an addend, and you aim for a total result of 20 or higher. Everything else that was already positive (Strength bonus, magic weapon) is still positive, and everything else that was already negative (cover and concealment, curse, other penalties) is still negative. And then you convert nothing from original material. 2. Castles & Crusades is an AD&D clone, except done in the framework of 3rd Edition, so it does use BAB / Ascending AC for its attack rolls. Personally I don't like the skill system in it as being needlessly complicated, but practically everything else is very faithful to AD&D. PDF link to the free quickstart version
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
That's interesting, though it does leave the knock-on counterintuitive effect that smaller AC is better. Though if players are playing 2nd ed, they're probably used to that. Edit: I'll definitely check out that AD&D clone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Petr posted:I definitely think the "partial success" mechanic in systems like Dungeon World is really good for failing-forward, and I wish D&D had that more explicitly. Good DMs do that out of habit, but the system doesn't encourage it in its base rules. Dracula Factory posted:I ran a pathfinder game briefly and I gave soft failures to close misses, the players seemed to like that and it softened missing a roll by 1. There have been extant, though vague, guidelines on extending "partial success" or "moderated failure" outcomes since at least 3e:   And 5e's DMG touches on this as well: quote:SUCCESS AT A COST That trapped chest example is actually a "reprint" of the 3e one! Dracula Factory posted:Gold usage is a good criticism of 5e, I feel like the official materials should have a section more or less telling DMs to come up with ways for the players to spend money. My campaign has us building new stuff for our town and rolling the dice on new magic item effects so we have fun with it, but it is an extra pressure for the DM to come up with stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
I think it's easy enough to get rid of gold through RP fluff, especially in interim sessions between adventures. The trick is to make the players feel like they gained something worthwhile for it. Sure, you can't buy Tier 7 shoulders, but maybe you rebuild a grain mill and gain the trust of a town, or commission a spy network to get you some intel on the next mission (that maybe you were gonna give them anyway, but no reason to tell them that) Like, don't present it as "I take 10,000 gold away for RP fluff," present it as "you can do A, B, or C with this 10,000 gold!" and let them debate the merits of the choices.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 05:26
|
|
|
Sorry to doublepost, but I also should say - if a party's gold balance gets really high, you can use that as a source of conflict. That gold had to come from somewhere legitimate to begin with. Maybe that dragon's hoard was stolen from caravans of the capital city, and now the citizens want a slice of it. Maybe the local king strolls into town and expects tribute. Farmer Giles of Ham that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 08:49
|
|
|
Just make very expensive hats available to the group.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 08:57
|
|
|
Trast posted:What would you all recommend as some of your favorite campaigns or modules? it could be because they are great stories or mechanically sound, etc. I want to read a couple to get a feel for how they are put together but there are too many to go through blindly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 09:06
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:It struck as people wanting to get away from the implication that "having a great time" had necessarily anything to do with whether or not it's a well-designed game or not, but if Wurzag wasn't trying to say that, then fine, fair cop, I'll drop it. All I'm saying is I'm well aware of the shortcomings of 5e but my group of newbies to rpgs had a good time with it. I'm not trying to score points here or claim that by virtue of my single example 5e is the best game ever. People can think what they like about 5e, I'm really surprised by the hostility here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 10:21
|
|
|
There are two arguments being had here. One is that 5E is a really, really badly designed RPG with numerous glaring flaws (with a sub-argument that the specific flaws can teach first time GMs and players bad habits and reinforce existing bad habits), and there are way better RPGs out there. This is True. The other is that some people have had a lot of fun playing 5E. This is also True. Nobody is trying to use the first argument to dispute the second argument. "We had fun" -> "The rules are bad" is a non-sequitor. There's an argument because people keep trying to use the second argument to dispute the first argument, thinking that "We had fun" somehow implies "5E is NOT a terribly written games made by "designers" who actively and publicly courted people like Zak S and RPGPundit during development". The reason this particular slap fight started is because Wurzag said Wurzag posted:Ran an 8 player game of 5e for a bunch of people who have no prior experience with rpgs whatsoever. Say what you will about 5e being imperfect but everyone seemed to have a great time. All that said, ARIVIA you don't have to argue with EVERY "but we had fun" statement in the thread. Sometimes it's best to just let them wither and die on their own. edit: Wurzag posted:All I'm saying is I'm well aware of the shortcomings of 5e but my group of newbies to rpgs had a good time with it. I'm not trying to score points here or claim that by virtue of my single example 5e is the best game ever. People can think what they like about 5e, I'm really surprised by the hostility here. edit 2: Though it was Petr posting nonsense like this: Petr posted:Yeah man, you are objectively wrong for enjoying a game, as indicated by this meta-analysis Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Apr 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 11:11
|
|
|
Petr posted:All I want is 2nd ed without THAC0, is that too much to ask?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 11:27
|
|
|
ritorix posted:Something else that gets ignored, and I don't have a good term for it, is what I'll call "respecting failure". I see this a lot - a player rolls a trained skill, fails the DC, so the game narration focuses on how the character fucks up badly, doesn't know poo poo, trips over their own feet or is otherwise terrible at their skill. FATE's roll system, where you don't roll a 5 or a 2, you roll a "Good" or a "Poor", also helps cement the attitude that "Not good enough for this" doesn't automatically mean "Was a tool". Petr posted:This is fun, but difficult to do since it's usually the player who rolls the check, so they'd know they hosed up. That said, I have seen games where the DM handled all rolls behind the screen, and the players just talked. I haven't seen that with 5e, so I don't know if it would work or be fun. e: Though I think you misunderstood what ritorix was saying in his examples. He wasn't talking about hidden information, he was giving examples of stuff you can return for the failed results other than "You stand there looking like an idiot". "What can kill a werewolf?" "You can't remember, but recall that their sense of smell and hearing are extremely acute" or "You're about to say cold iron but you realise you're thinking of fae. You can't remember what it is for werewolves." "I bribe the guard to let me in." "As you reach into your pocket the guard's expression turns from disinterested to... almost offended? He refuses to meet your eye and you quickly get the sense you should leave." Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Apr 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 11:39
|
|
|
Dracula Factory posted:Gold usage is a good criticism of 5e, I feel like the official materials should have a section more or less telling DMs to come up with ways for the players to spend money. My campaign has us building new stuff for our town and rolling the dice on new magic item effects so we have fun with it, but it is an extra pressure for the DM to come up with stuff like that. Splicer posted:It's called the marginal utility of money. Once someone's covering their day to day expenses and important one time purchases there's nothing to spend money on except increasingly frivolous extravagances and/or a runaway cycle of money -> investment -> more money. In real life this is the point of progressive taxation, and where the "money is just a way of keeping score" kicks in depends on how well your local government has set this up. Given that murderhobos have 0 daily expenses, one-time purchases that cap out at "good armour and weapon, maybe some horses", and a 0% tax rate, this problem is pretty much inevitable. So you need to either introduce day-to-day or major one-time expenses (paying for food and supplies, frequent magic weapon upgrades, castles and airships, potions and wands, and/or frequently being robbed) or... when was the last time they paid taxes again?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 11:41
|
|
|
You should've gone for the five posts in a row to match the fifth edition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 12:05
|
|
|
So is Mystra just weirdly amoral with the whole Magister thing? Like is she operating on some alien other level morality that doesn't see the problem of Magisters killing each other off to take the place at the top? I'm looking through some old resources and there's tons of stuff about her but it seems to be scattered in weird unhelpful bites rather than like one big shitload of content about Mystra and her miscellaneous related stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 12:18
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:You should've gone for the five posts in a row to match the fifth edition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 12:32
|
|
|
I strongly prefer stuff like partial success, success at a cost, etc to be directly baked into the resolution mechanism, because otherwise, for all the vague suggestions and the idea that "it is a good idea to maybe possibly consider doing this" without actually providing any systems that really assist with that, it's just heaping more work on the DM's back, in a system that's already incredibly unfriendly towards inexperienced DMs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
Scyther posted:I strongly prefer stuff like partial success, success at a cost, etc to be directly baked into the resolution mechanism, because otherwise, for all the vague suggestions and the idea that "it is a good idea to maybe possibly consider doing this" without actually providing any systems that really assist with that, it's just heaping more work on the DM's back, in a system that's already incredibly unfriendly towards inexperienced DMs. Actually I think that's apart of what makes the whole thing work, having a couple of solid mechanical options with broad story interpretations to fall back on if you can't think of anything. Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Apr 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 12:54
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Gonna quote myself from earlier because I'm a narcissist (and also I think it was a good post) In real life, kids are the ultimate gold sink. Plus you've got to consider the hard life of an adventurer might lead to a forced early retirement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:2. Castles & Crusades is an AD&D clone, except done in the framework of 3rd Edition, so it does use BAB / Ascending AC for its attack rolls. Personally I don't like the skill system in it as being needlessly complicated, but practically everything else is very faithful to AD&D. PDF link to the free quickstart version A quick skim of this has revealed that they have you roll for your hit points. gently caress that. It also has that thing where everyone starts with a low bonus to hit, but the fightier classes escalate faster than the less fighty classes. So a level 1 fighter and a level 1 wizard have a similar chance to hit, but it diverges as levels are gained from then on. Why? It also has that weird thing where there are sixteen types of saving throw, based on different, arbitrary-as-gently caress attributes. Charisma helps against Death Attack. Wisdom against being polymorphed. Constitution against poison, but strength against paralysis. Gort fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Apr 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 13:49
|
|
|
Gort posted:It also has that thing where everyone starts with a low bonus to hit, but the fightier classes escalate faster than the less fighty classes. So a level 1 fighter and a level 1 wizard have a similar chance to hit, but it diverges as levels are gained from then on. Why? I get your other complaints, but are you actually asking why fighters should get better at fighting faster than any other class?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 14:50
|
|
|
It sounds more to me like they're asking why fighters and wizards start out with equal fighting skill?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 14:56
|
|
|
Nehru the Damaja posted:So is Mystra just weirdly amoral with the whole Magister thing? Like is she operating on some alien other level morality that doesn't see the problem of Magisters killing each other off to take the place at the top? I'm looking through some old resources and there's tons of stuff about her but it seems to be scattered in weird unhelpful bites rather than like one big shitload of content about Mystra and her miscellaneous related stuff. Mystra is very much given to inhuman morality, yes. Mystryl (the first one, who sacrificed herself at the fall of the Netheril Empire) was very alien, being spun of star stuff. Mystra (the first one named such, who sacrificed herself during the Time of Troubles) was often amoral simply because of her age and experience. Mystra (the third one, formerly Midnight, who ascended after the Time of Troubles) struggled with and lost more and more of her humanity as time went on. Being the Weave, as Mystra is, seems to require a very unhuman perspective and gradually makes itself more and more alien and unrecognizable as anything else. Elminster's relationship with Mystra is a huge part of the Elminster novels, and is the best place for finding out about this kind of stuff. However, the Magister isn't just a chaotic death ritual thing. For one thing, it's actually watched over by Azuth, god of wizards. Azuth largely administrates the entire Magisterial process, and he is far more attentive to the mortality of the mages involved than Mystra is. Azuth has allowed for nonlethal duels, selections without dueling, and other breaks from the concept of combat-to-the-death in order to gain the title. As of 1372 DR, he actually removed the possibility of dueling to ascend to the position at all (in Magic of Faerun for 3e.) He and Mystra were trying something different with the position, although what that might be was never detailed (because of how spotty publications got before 4e, and then Mystra getting killed IN 4e.) The purpose of the Magister is to promote the Art in many ways - the Magister themselves does a lot of work to spread magic to others. The duel to become the Magister itself serves this purpose - striving to match the Magister requires a lot of magical preparation, talent, and experimentation itself. For the bad pop culture quote, "if you come at the King, you best not miss." Mystra wants people to use the Weave, to learn and try new things, and having a trial for the best to test themselves against promotes learning in quite a unique way. Does it lead to deaths? Surely. Is it amoral? Definitely. But it is appropriate for Mystra. Most of this comes from Secrets of the Magister, a very late 2e supplement devoted solely to the Magister and those who took up that title over the years. (Note that I'm NOT speaking of FR4 The Magister, which is a 1e book of new spells and magic items.) You're right that there's not a single central source about Mystra, her followers, and so on. That's because she was so popular, and such an established backbone of the Realms, that there are multiple gaming supplements that detail an aspect of Mystra or her priesthood. Secrets of the Magister is one. The Seven Sisters is about the Seven Sisters. Volo's Guide to All Things Magical is a practical guide to magic in the Realms, but that also covers a lot of stuff that falls under Mystra being known as the Lady of Mysteries. And of course she has actual solid substantial religious sections in the deity books (Faiths and Avatars for 2e, and Faiths and Pantheons for 3e.) So you're finding a lot because there's tons to be found. Mystra is definitely by far the most detailed deity in the Forgotten Realms (second would be Lolth due to all the drow stuff.) She also gets more attention because she's the goddess of magic, and new magic poo poo is a time-honored D&D supplement focus that never runs dry. Drink as deep as you'd like, because there's plenty more; but don't forget to come up for air and stop when you've had your fill. Have fun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 15:08
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:2. Castles & Crusades is an AD&D clone, except done in the framework of 3rd Edition, so it does use BAB / Ascending AC for its attack rolls. Personally I don't like the skill system in it as being needlessly complicated, but practically everything else is very faithful to AD&D. PDF link to the free quickstart version Don't play Castles & Crusades. It's only like one step below ACKS on the lovely retroclone creators ladder. Davis Chenault got banned from rpg.net for a "joke" post where he said people should get firearms and go into tenements where black people live so they could do some live-action dungeoneering complete with inhuman monsters to kill.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 15:11
|
|
|
Arivia posted:Don't play Castles & Crusades. It's only like one step below ACKS on the lovely retroclone creators ladder. Davis Chenault got banned from rpg.net for a "joke" post where he said people should get firearms and go into tenements where black people live so they could do some live-action dungeoneering complete with inhuman monsters to kill. Kill all nerds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 15:21
|
|
|
Are there any decent retroclones that aren't made by complete garbage persons?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 15:26
|
|
|
Retro Phaze isn't exactly a retroclone but it is a neat old school style game inspired by old final fantasy and such games And it's free
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 16:37
|
|
|
Thalantos posted:Are there any decent retroclones that aren't made by complete garbage persons? I haven't heard anything too lovely about the 13th age guys
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Thalantos posted:Are there any decent retroclones that aren't made by complete garbage persons? Not heard anything particularly lovely about Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine publishing) There's also Blacky the Blackball's stuff at https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/ - he seems okay on RPG.net
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 17:09
|
|
|
I am currently running a Forgotten Realms game, but to my secret shame I have very little knowledge of ::REALMSLORE:: My super innovative story includes Bhaal plotting his revenge against those who led to his death. So, other than Cyric, who would be on his poo poo list? All I really know about FR is by way of the video games and what various wiki research has given me. Also, I guess Bhaal previously died in the Tantras novel, so what the gently caress happened there? Garl_Grimm fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Apr 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 19:20
|
|
|
Thalantos posted:Are there any decent retroclones that aren't made by complete garbage persons? I have yet to hear anything bad about Beyond the Wall and hope that posting it in this thread does not change that...
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
Babylon Astronaut posted:Ok, so a decent horror campaign is I-9 Ravenloft, house of straud, whatever version, RA-1 Feast of Goblyns, and the book of crypts collection of one shots. You can get a lengthy, multi-year campaign with RA-1 alone if you indulge your player's curiosity and non-lateral thinking. Throw in some encounters from your monster manuals, and the thing has tons of content and characters that write themselves. Ravenloft is just a good adventure and an interesting look at the "house dungeon" of old. I'd put it below classics like the b series and such, but as reading for ideas, it is better than all of the b modules, save for the mini campaign that is b2, but b2 introduced "going outside" so that's hard to top. Thoughts of Ruin from ravenloft is probably the hardest module I can think of if that's interesting to you. What I am really looking for is well liked campaigns or modules. The reason is I want to read them learn what makes for better encounters, stories, etc. I really enjoy DMing but I am still pretty new to table top rpgs so I am still learning a lot of nuts and bolts stuff. I suppose I am asking for the netflix recommends of D&D. Like if you like dungeon crawling adventure A is rated five stars by viewers or this campaign involving the party building a kingdom is the favorite of aspiring table top despots.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
Manic_Misanthrope posted:I haven't heard anything too lovely about the 13th age guys I am F&Fing 13th Age, for the curious. Relevant to the discussion of failing forward, 13A doesn't use margins of success, but rather all skill rolls in that game fail forward. Failures shouldn't be hard stops, but rather they mean you move towards your goals with some sort of setback or negative consequences. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
Garl_Grimm posted:I am currently running a Forgotten Realms game, but to my secret shame I have very little knowledge of ::REALMSLORE:: My super innovative story includes Bhaal plotting his revenge against those who led to his death. So, other than Cyric, who would be on his poo poo list? All I really know about FR is by way of the video games and what various wiki research has given me. Cyric used Mask (kinda) to kill him. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bhaal
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
Garl_Grimm posted:I am currently running a Forgotten Realms game, but to my secret shame I have very little knowledge of ::REALMSLORE:: My super innovative story includes Bhaal plotting his revenge against those who led to his death. So, other than Cyric, who would be on his poo poo list? All I really know about FR is by way of the video games and what various wiki research has given me. Cyric, Mask, Mystra, Kelemvor. As FRINGE pointed out, Cyric used Mask (in the form of the sword Godsbane) to kill Bhaal. Kelemvor and Mystra were part of the same adventuring party and were at Bhaal's death. All of this happens in the Waterdeep book, not Tantras. I'd ignore reading that though. The Avatar series is pretty bad. Just grab Murder in Baldur's Gate from the DM's Guild - it has a ton of Bhaal 5e stuff to use.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
As Mrykul and and Bane are back as well. Getting from assistance from them would be a good idea for Bhaal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
Sage's DM: The Saga Continues So hey, remember that randomly rolled in order Cleric I was planning on? The DM just mailed me a custom magic item he built for me to help alleviate the downsides somewhat. Awww... how nice! Right? Well... Magic Item: Chain of devout souls posted:
My answer: Me posted:I appreciate the gesture and the time you spent on this, but I think I'll never use that. I'll keep you updated with his answer. Starting to second-guess my decision to play...
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 23:46
|
|
|
Well at least he tried to do something nice for you. Despite it being a lovely attempt. What he really should do however is just let you rearrange your stats. (Or give you an amulet of wisdom so your lore does not matter.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
I'll give your DM something for at least recognizing there's a problem and proposing you a solution, albeit in a poor attempt. It eats your channel divinity, damages you, and has a random element. All just to try to bring up up to par with other players. He's going to great lengths to avoid just letting you flip stats.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 02:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
I don't like being the one who says  but...
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 02:43
|
|