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Some of the coverage about what's going on in Macedonia is a bit simplified. On the surface it does look like Macedonian nationalists stormed parliament because an ethnic Albanian speaker of parliament was elected. However, there's more to it than that. Elections were held late last year and there was no clear winner. The nationalist VMRO got two more seats than the social democrats (SDSM) but it wasn't enough to form a majority government. In the past couple of elections VMRO ruled in a coalition with DUI, which was the party of former KLA dude Ali Ahmeti. This time they had trouble forming a coalition with DUI and SDSM got a large increase in seats by appealing to ethnic Albanians. So, while VMRO had the most seats it wasn't able to form a government and SDSM started working with Albanian parties to try and form a ruling coalition. SDSM got together with DUI, formed a coalition and went to the president of Macedonia, Gjorgji Ivanov, who is a member of VMRO for a mandate. He refused while stoking nationalist fears as reasons. The leader of SDSM, Zoran Zaev, then said that they could start a government by non conventional means. This meant that that SDSM and DUI went to parliament yesterday and elected Talant Xhaferi as speaker of parliament without VMRO's presence. An interesting note that Talant Xhaferi was minister of defense in a previous DUI-VMRO coalition government. Up to this point, Macedonia has had no government since the election in December. So, while it looks like a bunch of Macedonians are attacking government because an Albanian has been elected to a position of power, it's a bit more complicated than that. I'm sure there is an element of that but the main reason for behind the attack on the parliament is that VMRO thugs are looking to block any attempts at VMRO losing power.
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Apr 28, 2017 14:20
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Jesus Christ all these references to Soros...
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Apr 28, 2017 14:49
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That's a great bullshit detector. When you're unsure which side deserves support in an EE political conflict, it's always the one that doesn't see Soros as an enemy.
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Apr 28, 2017 16:07
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Doctor Malaver posted:That's a great bullshit detector. When you're unsure which side deserves support in an EE political conflict, it's always the one that doesn't see Soros as an enemy.
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Apr 28, 2017 16:11
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Oh yeah, VMRO is blaming foreign agents like Soros throughout all of this.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:09
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Meanwhile, in Donbas - It is awesome that after a few years of stewing in its own juices your thread has finally descended into complete PrisonPlanet style conspiracy theory turf.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:19
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Maarek posted:It is awesome that after a few years of stewing in its own juices your thread has finally descended into complete PrisonPlanet style conspiracy theory turf.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:56
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Any day now the smoking gun evidence will appear that PROVES Donald Trump is not a fat idiot oligarch but a willing pawn of V. Putin. I have here in my briefcase an entire dossier about how he gets peed on and will force Ukraine to change its name to The Ukraine, so it's only a matter of time.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:03
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Maarek posted:Any day now the smoking gun evidence will appear that PROVES Donald Trump is not a fat idiot oligarch but a willing pawn of V. Putin. I have here in my briefcase an entire dossier about how he gets peed on and will force Ukraine to change its name to The Ukraine, so it's only a matter of time. But please, don't let me detract yourself from getting massively worked up over a single dramatic post made in unknown circumstances, that would make it awkwardly difficult to uncover the truth about the thread that is just lying out there.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:13
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Yeah, that's the problem with using conspiracy theories as political tools. Now that they've (mostly) resolved their foreign policy disagreements with The Donald the people peddling it have dropped it like a ton of bricks, but there will always be some people whose will cling to it like some kind of WWII Japanese holdout soldier living in the jungle off of beetles and his own pee.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:22
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The reality doesn't have to conform to the extreme on either side. I don't feel as if you are well in touch with reality.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:27
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Perhaps the truth is in the middle?
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Apr 28, 2017 18:28
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Baronjutter posted:Perhaps the truth is in the middle? There's no need to choose between the two radical choices, maybe it was just an audio recording of a silver shower and the administration is merely seditious.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:32
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Maarek posted:There's no need to choose between the two radical choices, maybe it was just an audio recording of a silver shower and the administration is merely seditious. What is a silver shower? Asking for a friend.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:34
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Buddy if you have to ask,
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Apr 28, 2017 18:34
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Maarek posted:Yeah, that's the problem with using conspiracy theories as political tools. Now that they've (mostly) resolved their foreign policy disagreements with The Donald the people peddling it have dropped it like a ton of bricks, but there will always be some people whose will cling to it like some kind of WWII Japanese holdout soldier living in the jungle off of beetles and his own pee. Thanks to the profound but grounding intellect of Maarek all of those people slated to testify next week in Washington DC can go home.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:45
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Having spent some time looking at OSF, the idea that they're competent enough to overturn governments is pretty odd.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:45
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Thanks to the profound but grounding intellect of Maarek all of those people slated to testify next week in Washington DC can go home. This is the achilles heel of my claim, right here. For you to be wrong and me to be right we would have to believe that congress would use its investigatory powers on nonsense, purely to score political points.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:49
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Osmosisch posted:I think Poland is more the anomaly here, possibly due to its relative cultural & linguistic stability over a long time, imperialistic partitionings notwithstanding. Even my tiny country has sections that just straight up don't understand each other, with one area (Frisia) being so weird that their dialect is officially a different language: This means, for example, that translating a piece of media that features multiple dialects (i.e. Australian English, Cockney, Bronx) into Polish would be a huge challenge, since the only variants available to the translator to convey those differences would be standard Polish, Silesian, and the aforementioned hodgepodge of dialects which would come across as non-descript rural/folsky speech. One could always draw upon historical sources and use specific pre-1945 dialects, but they wouldn't carry any specific connotations to the modern speaker, geographical or otherwise. (Is this a  or a  ? Oh well, I'll put both just in case.)
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Apr 30, 2017 13:51
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Sorry, I call bullshit to an extent. Things like Silesian and Kashubian are really quite incomprehensible lingual mish-mashes, but they sort of straddle the line between a dialect and microlanguage and the current consensus favors the latter (it's really mostly Silesians that get dunked on, as they lack a decent ethnic claim to justify the distinction). poo poo, the recent movie Jestem mordercą had to back away from using Silesian for being too incomprehensible, settling on Silesian phonetics and few familiar-sounding words peppered in. Let's also not pretend stuff like the Podhale, or Kresy dialects are easily understandable. As for the resettlements, while what you said was true, it bears mentioning it is fairly geographically specific (basically primarily dumping all the folks from former Polish lands in the east to the newly-gained westernmost land) and the whole thing is considered to be one of the four main dialect groups. Well, maybe the rebuilt cities liek Bydgoszcz and Warsaw count too. Having said that, it is true the modern dialects are mostly relegated to, and associated with, rural areas and using them paints you as a hick. Kind of like under the soviet rule Ukrainian was pushed as inferior to the more 'worldly' Russian, if perhaps less malevolent (mostly borne out of rapid urbanization and increased social mobility). The city folk mostly differ in inane "soda vs coke" things, with more distinct traits of old urban dialects considered harmless folklore. As for translations, people usually fall on (heavily sanitized for clarity) Silesian or Podhale dialect, as the remainder are primarily associated with countryside (more often than not disparagingly), rather than particular regions. Hell, even the Podhale dialect is used for comedic effect more often than not. (There's also a bunch of really wierd-rear end ethnic microlanguages under varying levels of Polish influence, like Rusyn, Karaim or Wymysiöeryś, but they're really minor and basically impossible to stumble upon by accident)
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Apr 30, 2017 16:08
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Oh yeah, I forgot about the Podhale dialect. I sort of mentally conflated it with Silesian, even though they only thing they have in common is being spoken in the mountainous South. Chalk it up to me being a Mazury boy.  While it's true that Stalin's relocation efforts were quite specific (get the folk from the lost territories in the East to the new territories in the West, done) and, in theory, should have only resulted in an emergence of a new mixed dialect in the West while preserving variation in the rest of Poland (and this is how linguistic maps compiled in the 60s and 70s present it), in practice, further population movements and the influence of the mass media diluted the language to the point where everyone except the Silesians and the Gorole speaks in a "new mixed dialect" with some individual quirks. (There's also Kashubian and things like the Wilno dialect, but the former is basically a distinct language, the latter is spoken outside of Poland, and both are pretty much unrecognized by the Polish collective consciousness.) Aside from that, we seem to be saying basically the same thing.  edit - To keep it from being a Polish-centric discussion, perhaps the other former Soviet Bloc posters could chime in on how the other CE languages survived the communist regime in terms of diversity? It's barely a political topic, but I'm a sucker for linguistic stuff like this. Pizdec fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 17:43
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What kind of Pole are you? This thread should be all about us all the time. 
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Apr 30, 2017 18:28
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Transcarpathian dialect in Ukraine is pretty special.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:48
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Shes Not Impressed posted:Transcarpathian dialect in Ukraine is pretty special.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:12
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Dwesa posted:Hm, probably why my russian-speaking friend couldn't understand when we visited Uzhorod. I've only been here since December, but if I speak only in the dialect I know to my friends in Chernihiv/Kyiv they won't understand either. Lots of Hungarian and Czech words. I started putting together a dictionary to keep track.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:15
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A Pale Horse posted:What kind of Pole are you? This thread should be all about us all the time. Oh yeah?  Here's an article about the Ukrainians building a dam to control the flow of water into Crimea. https://ru.tsn.ua/ukrayina/ukraina-postroila-dambu-na-granice-s-okkupirovannym-krymom-851385.html
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Apr 30, 2017 21:33
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Looks like brilliant green splashes are "the new meta" of stifling dissent in Russia. I keep reading reports of more and more people harassed that way.
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May 1, 2017 10:07
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Looks like brilliant green splashes are "the new meta" of stifling dissent in Russia. I keep reading reports of more and more people harassed that way. With some eye damaging extra chemicals mixed in, apparently.
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May 1, 2017 10:37
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OddObserver posted:With some eye damaging extra chemicals mixed in, apparently. E: Here's footage of last attack on Navalnyi, by the way: https://twitter.com/navalny/status/858732566765084677 cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 10:40
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'm not sure if that specifically has not been limited to just Navalnyi (for now), but it would be entirely unsurprising. I was thinking of: quote:A Russian political activist has suffered burns to her eyes after an attacker splashed her with a chemical, the opposition Yabloko party has said. ...which, come to think of it, didn't have the green.
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May 1, 2017 10:48
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OddObserver posted:I was thinking of:  saw that last week and kind-of assumed it was the same old brilliant green, but drat, soon they will do whatever was that UK thing I read about with splashing people with outright corrosive chemicals to gently caress up their face and whatnot. As for my earlier post, I was just reading about this incident, which marks what feels like not even the first week of daily brilliant green attack reports.
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May 1, 2017 10:58
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Pizdec posted:This means, for example, that translating a piece of media that features multiple dialects (i.e. Australian English, Cockney, Bronx) into Polish would be a huge challenge, since the only variants available to the translator to convey those differences would be standard Polish, Silesian, and the aforementioned hodgepodge of dialects which would come across as non-descript rural/folsky speech. This is also something every kid who tries to translate anything for the first time in their life thinks makes perfect sense, and something you should never, ever, ever do
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May 1, 2017 11:24
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I've been learning Polish with my girlfriend to better interact with her family (and because I find it interesting and enjoyable), I do like that spelling and pronounciation seems to be consistent so far.
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May 1, 2017 12:20
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Tevery Best posted:This is also something every kid who tries to translate anything for the first time in their life thinks makes perfect sense, and something you should never, ever, ever do Flipswitch posted:I've been learning Polish with my girlfriend to better interact with her family (and because I find it interesting and enjoyable), I do like that spelling and pronounciation seems to be consistent so far.
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May 1, 2017 12:51
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Flipswitch posted:I've been learning Polish with my girlfriend to better interact with her family (and because I find it interesting and enjoyable), I do like that spelling and pronounciation seems to be consistent so far. It's been real easy since we got kids, listening to them get yelled at has expanded my vocabulary much more rapidly than trying to work through the exercises in 'Polski bez trudu' (one of the biggest lies ever printed). It's pretty special to have a language where going from writing -> pronunciation is pretty much 100% consistent, coming from English/Dutch. Shame pronunciation -> writing does have some decisions to make.
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May 1, 2017 13:32
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Pizdec posted:Why? It happens all the time in professional translations. Yes, bad ones. Although I honestly can't name a single one off the top of my head. The theoretical ideal translation would be one that provides the same experience to the recipients as the original did to its recipients through text, context and invoked associations. This is, naturally, impossible. However, providing them with a set of completely different experiences by calling onto a different context with different associations is wrong. Australians and Scots do not speak Silesian (and the same of course applies elsewhere, I'm just sticking to this example), and their language does not deviate from whatever the translator's idea of perfect English is in the same way that Silesian deviates from mainstream Polish. The places they live in do not resemble Silesia, nor do they differ from England or America the way Silesia does from Mazovia or Lesser Poland. Which means that replacing those with one another is contrary to what you are attempting to accomplish, so you should not do that. Moreover, any such attempts at using X dialect for Y dialect are never fully consistent. They run around the idea most people have for "hick-speak" rather than try to actually transpose a dialect. If you were reading a fantasy novel obviously set in Kingdom of Generica (read: a not-England) and the peasants started speaking the actual Masovian dialect at you, or even quoting Reymont, you'd snap out of the book and start wondering what in the actual gently caress is going on.
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May 1, 2017 13:57
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Tevery Best posted:Yes, bad ones. Although I honestly can't name a single one off the top of my head. This school of translation is also practiced in other countries that dub most of their movies. I don't know how widespread it is, but I do remember reading about the Russian dub of Deadpool giving Colossus a Siberian accent.
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May 1, 2017 14:55
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Pizdec posted:Why? It happens all the time in professional translations. Now I just have to convince some of her relatives that the Somali side of my family don't wear eye patches and wield Kalashnikovs. Osmosisch posted:It's been real easy since we got kids, listening to them get yelled at has expanded my vocabulary much more rapidly than trying to work through the exercises in 'Polski bez trudu' (one of the biggest lies ever printed). I don't understand the political situations in Poland very much but I've enjoyed reading this thread to learn it and broaden my knowledge.
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May 2, 2017 02:50
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The Polish political scene is hilarious. I'd enjoy an update post about the crazies like that punk? rock musician who ran on a single issue platform of electoral reform to introduce a first past the post system and the crazy old monarchist? dude that says poo poo so outlandish it puts Trump to shame.
SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 09:58 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 09:56
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SaltyJesus posted:the crazy old monarchist? I sometimes want to do a big write-up about the dude and the subculture around him, but it'd be a LOT of effort. So just enjoy a moon language video about a europarliamentarian unboxing the Time To Plough Socialism CCG.
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May 2, 2017 12:30
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