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Onmi posted:Can someone confirm to me what the Phoenix's status is? Last seen in Thor, on its way to try and kill Thor (and maybe the Kree too?). Thor and Kid Gladiator have enlisted noted future Phoenix host Quentin Quire to help fight it.
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May 3, 2017 15:01
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If secret empire doesn't end with Captain Marvel beating Captain America to death while screaming "I'm more popular!" I will be sad.
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May 3, 2017 15:12
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TwoPair posted:Last seen in Thor, on its way to try and kill Thor (and maybe the Kree too?). Thor and Kid Gladiator have enlisted noted future Phoenix host Quentin Quire to help fight it. Isn't Thanos' kid Thane now the Phoenix?
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May 3, 2017 15:15
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Onmi posted:Guess who's on HydraCap's side?  Who was it that was complaining about how Marvel was treating Jewish characters?
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May 3, 2017 15:21
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Yeah there are two separate Phoenix storylines as of last week and I think the Thor one constitutes something of a retcon of the origin of the Phoenix.
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May 3, 2017 15:22
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Lovechop posted:secret empire trying to win me back over with mean girls references, my one weakness.. pubic works project posted:Isn't Thanos' kid Thane now the Phoenix?
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May 3, 2017 15:24
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My theory is the end of Secret Empire is going to be Iron Man face to face with Cap about to sock him in the jaw, but then a bunch of EMTs, firefighters, and police officers jump out and restrain Iron Man, and Iron Man suddenly comes to the realization that punching fascists is the same as (heck, it's actually WORSE THAN) being a fascist, and he surrenders.
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May 3, 2017 15:23
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Endless Mike posted:Real weird to make Hydra wear pink on Wednesdays, but hell, I'll take it. Don't worry, you're not missing much. I'm finding it really mediocre and I actually dropped it. I've just been reading it online.
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May 3, 2017 15:29
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pubic works project posted:Don't worry, you're not missing much. I'm finding it really mediocre and I actually dropped it. I've just been reading it online. No, I have it, I just haven't read it. I'm like 2-3 weeks (maybe more?) behind on reading comics.
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May 3, 2017 15:33
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Scyther posted:My theory is the end of Secret Empire is going to be Iron Man face to face with Cap about to sock him in the jaw, but then a bunch of EMTs, firefighters, and police officers jump out and restrain Iron Man, and Iron Man suddenly comes to the realization that punching fascists is the same as (heck, it's actually WORSE THAN) being a fascist, and he surrenders. Pretty sure it ends with lots of fascist asses kicked and faces punched. Because it is a comic book, where they end up punched instead of the White House when the last page is inked.
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May 3, 2017 15:37
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It's going to end with an advert for Nick Spencer's magnum opus; a sixteen part crossover event where Thor says the N-word.
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May 3, 2017 15:48
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NikkolasKing posted:So I was looking at the list of Eisner Award nominations and one thing it listed stuck out to me. I'm nearly finished with this and I'm enjoying it a lot. I think you'd almost certainly want to read through Miller's DD run though in order to fully get all of it (he includes plenty of scans of panels etc that he's making direct reference to, but having the context makes it a lot better). Got a lot of interesting stuff about his page layout / panel composition and his influences in that respect. A lot of the discussion around his writing is pretty DD-specific, though I think the last chapter or 2 gets a little more into how it fits into the evolution of todays' "Frank Miller, crazy fascist". Haven't quite made it through yet though. So yeah, would definitely recommend to anyone who's interested in Daredevil as a character or in Miller the writer (but do yourself a favor and read his Daredevil if you want to read the book).
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May 3, 2017 16:08
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I'm, not imagining this right? Is Xorn back again?
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May 3, 2017 16:51
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I'm just happy that Lucky finally showed up in Hawkeye. 
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May 3, 2017 16:51
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good day for a bris posted:I'm, not imagining this right? Is Xorn back again? Oh, he's been back for a while. He was part of the big Uncanny X-Men book that was basically an X-Force book.
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May 3, 2017 16:52
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KaosMachina posted:Oh, he's been back for a while. He was part of the big Uncanny X-Men book that was basically an X-Force book. Yup. He got in a fight during IvX and someone cracked his helmet and a whole bunch of energy came out. He hosed up Shaw with that and then walked away.
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May 3, 2017 16:54
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pubic works project posted:Yup. He got in a fight during IvX and someone cracked his helmet and a whole bunch of energy came out. He hosed up Shaw with that and then walked away. No poo poo? I might check those out. I'm just surprised they ever wanted to touch that character again.
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May 3, 2017 17:09
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good day for a bris posted:No poo poo? I might check those out. I'm just surprised they ever wanted to touch that character again. Why not? Xorn did nothing wrong, it was either Magneto or Xorn's brother or something or another. Who knows for sure with the clusterfuck the whole thing is.
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May 3, 2017 17:16
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It's 100% not Magneto. It was a Xorn but which one and how/why has changed a bit. I think the latest version is still that he thought the world needed a Magneto. That Xorn later became The Collective. This Xorn is the other Xorn's brother who had nothing to do with the original Xorn stuff and was created to retcon and give exposition. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 17:22
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Aphrodite posted:It's 100% not Magneto. I always thought it'd be easier to handwave away by saying Magneto knocked him out and dressed up as him 2/3s of the way through the run. Thus letting them keep most of his good guy accomplishments as opposed to saying "oh here's a guy who just like him, same moveset and everything, but it's not him".
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May 3, 2017 17:25
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good day for a bris posted:I always thought it'd be easier to handwave away by saying Magneto knocked him out and dressed up as him 2/3s of the way through the run. Thus letting them keep most of his good guy accomplishments as opposed to saying "oh here's a guy who just like him, same moveset and everything, but it's not him". Yeah but Marvel wants to avoid that entirely because Morrison made Magneto Hitler at the end.
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May 3, 2017 17:24
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They could just not use Xorn at all because what they did was needlessly confusing.
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May 3, 2017 17:30
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I was a skeptical about Spencer's Cap run at first, partly because I think changing a character's motivation via Cosmic Cube (or magic, or brainwashing, or what-have-you) is cheap, and partly because of my feelings about Spencer's South Park-style"the truth must be somewhere in the middle" politics. However, I warmed up to it a bit after getting caught up on it -- it still hasn't addressed all of my complaints, but I think the whole run generally works as an ongoing suspense/espionage story where you don't need someone to root for in order to enjoy watching how different opposing groups' machinations unfold, and I can appreciate Spencer's ability to write characters who are experiencing some kind of inner turmoil (in the cases of both Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson). I think Secret Empire started strong with the #0 issue, which established really high stakes right off the bat and successfully sold how devastating it would be to these characters to see their icon turn against them. I'm glad to see it keeping up the quality with this week's #1 issue, which opened with a really chilling look into how propaganda can permeate all facets of life in a fascist society, and how if you get people indoctrinated early enough they can get right on board and mistake their oppressors as benevolent. I'm still not seeing how someone with reading comprehension and an appreciation for irony could read this story and mistake it for being pro-fascist or written by someone who "loves Nazis", considering the bleak tone of the narration, the fact that Hydra is killing innocent people, the clear fact that we're supposed to be rooting for the plucky young optimists in the resistance, or the fact that even the evil version of Cap still goes out of his way several times in the run to talk about how much he hates that Hydra ever let Nazis have a seat at the table. If it comes off like HydraCap is the most competent and capable person in the story, it's not because Nazis are cool, but because incompetent villains aren't a very compelling threat, and superhero crossover stories don't start with the good guys winning. If it's upsetting to see an anti-fascist icon subverted and his reputation dragged through the mud, it's because that was literally the Red Skull's entire plan, and co-opting nationalistic imagery is usually how fascist movements get started, and this is a story about how the Marvel Universe reacts when they have to go up against the one guy they always believed would be in their corner. There are certainly moments in this story that come off as oddly sympathetic to Steve, who seems at least marginally more merciful than the rest of Hydra, but without knowing for sure how the story will end, I have a strong feeling that this is a slow burn process of Steve's real values starting to shine through, building up to his inevitable "remember who you are" moment. All that being said, there are plenty of fair criticisms to be made about Spencer's run, such as how the inevitability of a reality rewrite at the end undermines the stakes and character development, and how even the good Captain America (Sam) is still at best someone who sits in the middle of the aisle and upholds the status quo. But overall, I think it's at least working as a blockbuster action story, and as a story about how emotionally devastating it can be to have your icons hijacked and used against you. Case in point, the way a lot of people in real life are reacting to this story is a perfect reflection of how the characters are taking it. It's a really big gamble to do something this subversive in a tentpole crossover event, and it remains to be seen if the story will ultimately make a statement that's profound enough to "earn" the shock value of it. If nothing else, I'd rather see creators attempt to do something subversive and fail spectacularly than to see them do something safely crowd-pleasing, so I'm along for the ride.
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May 3, 2017 18:14
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Aphrodite posted:It's 100% not Magneto. So this is Zorn. Is Shaw a bad guy again? Last I saw him he was mind wiped buddies with the Lights.
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May 3, 2017 18:22
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Xorn did nothing wrong.
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May 3, 2017 18:29
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Endless Mike posted:Xorn did nothing wrong. Xorn was right. Print the shirts!
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May 3, 2017 18:40
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Mr Hootington posted:If secret empire doesn't end with Captain Marvel beating Captain America to death while screaming "I'm more popular!" I will be sad. In a Miles Morales costume. Sneaky.
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May 3, 2017 19:04
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I'm sorry you didn't phrase your answer in the form of a
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May 3, 2017 19:06
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Connellingus posted:I'm still not seeing how someone with reading comprehension and an appreciation for irony could read this story and mistake it for being pro-fascist or written by someone who "loves Nazis" Nobody except maybe Dan Didio thinks this is actually the case, what people don't like is "let's drag this character through a big pile of Nazi-flavored poo poo for the better part of a year, also a bunch of other books too I guess, written by a dude who doesn't seem to possess the chops to tie it all together with a payoff that makes it all worth it," i.e.: quote:and it remains to be seen if the story will ultimately make a statement that's profound enough to "earn" the shock value of it. I'm going to guess the answer to this is no, not really. What is the possible ultimate statement that the Captain America Turns Nazi story could have, really? "Nazis Are Bad?" Well no poo poo, that doesn't really need a big crossover event to get across.
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May 3, 2017 19:40
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Onmi posted:Guess who's on HydraCap's side? So, what, what? I wonder how this poo poo's going to get explained. This will be a great tie in for the next couple of movies: enjoy Thor and Deadpool? Come read about them being nazi collaborators for some loving reason!
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May 3, 2017 19:52
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Connellingus posted:If it's upsetting to see an anti-fascist icon subverted and his reputation dragged through the mud, it's because that was literally the Red Skull's entire plan, and co-opting nationalistic imagery is usually how fascist movements get started, and this is a story about how the Marvel Universe reacts when they have to go up against the one guy they always believed would be in their corner. Connellingus posted:It's a really big gamble to do something this subversive in a tentpole crossover event, and it remains to be seen if the story will ultimately make a statement that's profound enough to "earn" the shock value of it. If nothing else, I'd rather see creators attempt to do something subversive and fail spectacularly than to see them do something safely crowd-pleasing, so I'm along for the ride.
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May 3, 2017 20:01
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good day for a bris posted:I'm, not imagining this right? Is Xorn back again? Cool there reusing one of the better story arcs of late game Ultimate X-men. Why though Edit: Also why is Demitri from Darkstalkers there too
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May 3, 2017 21:24
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Sinners Sandwich posted:Cool there reusing one of the better story arcs of late game Ultimate X-men. Why though well Capcom sure wasn't doing anything with him and MvC: Infinity is coming out...
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May 3, 2017 21:26
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Spider-Man got a serious laugh out of me. "Ned? You don't look like a Ned."
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May 3, 2017 21:28
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Lamont Cranston posted:I'm nearly finished with this and I'm enjoying it a lot. I think you'd almost certainly want to read through Miller's DD run though in order to fully get all of it (he includes plenty of scans of panels etc that he's making direct reference to, but having the context makes it a lot better). Got a lot of interesting stuff about his page layout / panel composition and his influences in that respect. A lot of the discussion around his writing is pretty DD-specific, though I think the last chapter or 2 gets a little more into how it fits into the evolution of todays' "Frank Miller, crazy fascist". Haven't quite made it through yet though. I just finished it. Well, I skimmed it more like for parts that interested me. I'm a Batman fan so I wanted to see quotes from Miller on Batman. There were plenty of other neat things, though. A lot of stuff on Miller's idea of superheroes and what they represent. That' a big draw for me, too. Works that question the nature of superheroes was how I got into comics. In all the talk of TDKR and Batman: Year One and of course Daredevil, I've never heard much about Ronin. It sounds really interesting. I just found this interview with Miller from 30 years ago discussing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9DsltLuEM4 "I think it's too early - for me anyway.certainly for me - to make any hard and fast statements about which way the art should be done better because every project I do seems to be different. I'm also very new at this. Maybe, ya know, I could give you a better definition of the best way to do the formula in 30 years so get back to me." I feel like I can understand and empathize with Miller more after seeing this and reading the book. quote:"As Miller’s career was taking off, the everyday violence in Manhattan at the time was taking its toll. “New York is no longer fit for human habitation,” Miller told one friend. After enduring three robberies in the course of a month, he and [the colorist and his then-girlfriend Lynn] Varley decided to escape to LA. While she went out west to search for a home, he stayed behind to set up more work to get them out of debt. He had a check in his pocket when, once again, someone tried to rob him. “Frank just went berserk on the guy,” Varley says. “He didn’t hit him or anything, he just went so berserk the guy backed off and ran away. We were on edge. This happened around the time he wrote TDKR. I have to keep this in mind while reading it. I also find it interesting he considers The Punisher more "pure" than Batman.
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May 3, 2017 21:42
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This will probably be *~unpopular~* or whatever but I really enjoyed Jean Grey #1. Hopeless always has a fun take on characters' voices, Victor Ibanez's art is always great, and I quite liked this interpretation of Jean and the Phoenix where it's just, like, periodically sassing at her.  X-Men: Gold is still good, too. Champions is melodramatic balls. Circutron posted:Who was it that was complaining about how Marvel was treating Jewish characters? 
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May 3, 2017 22:55
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That character isn't Jewish*.
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May 3, 2017 23:20
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BrianWilly posted:get off the internet Nick Spencer
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May 3, 2017 23:24
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So to anyone reading Nova, did I miss something, or did they bother explaining how Sam followed Rich into the Cancerverse? He just seemed to suddenly appear there. And I'm holding onto the hope that Sam recharges the cosmic cube with his helmet's share of the Nova Force and frees Richard for reals before the series dies on us.
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May 3, 2017 23:33
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Yvonmukluk posted:But they have now essentially tainted Captain America the symbol. Don't you think that's a bit melodramatic? Captain America was always on some ridiculous high pedestal of morality and goodness. That's not surprising since he was essentially created as war propaganda. Obviously everyone trusts him the most, because he was always a good boy scout who wanted to protect everyone. In some sense that was the only strictly constant thing in the whole Marvel universe. The story is about exploring what could happen if you put all your faith into a single idealized person. If everything is based on one linchpin who holds all the power, things go to poo poo easily. The entire tag line of the event is "What if your most trusted ally becomes your biggest enemy?" (or something like that.) The comic is based on the fact that Rodgers was influenced by his strongest foes. But due to the characters origins, those happened to be Hydra. That signifies how outdated Captain America and his origins actually is. This whole outcry only exists, because Rodgers enemies started as Nazis. If he had been created in the 70s Hydra might have started as a Vietnamese organization. The story could essentially be the same, but suddenly people would be way less shocked about it. I guess what I am saying is that it's good to taint Rodgers as a symbol. I can't feel interested in a story where a character is a pure symbol rather than you know, a character. If he comes out of this all fixed up, but nobody actually trusts him anymore it will be a nice chance of pace. It could actually lead to some interesting internal struggle and character building, rather than a constant presentation of an idealized morale compass. I usually completely avoid those big events, but I actually think there is some potential here. I don't have much faith in the event but the fallout and different comics might go in some interesting directions. For the record, I've read secret wars 0 and 1 and found it kinda average. I like how quickly everything went to poo poo. But it does seem weird that the invading force of the Cytauri allegedly has a size in the trillions. I think at that point humanity should just give up on principle. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 00:19 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 00:15
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