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bull3964 posted:About sums it up. Now all I'm thinking is drat if when Savitar scooped up Caitlyn he didn't pause and go "Baaarry. How's your shattered femur?" 
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May 3, 2017 05:23
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So, which time remnant is this? Is it the one that Barry used in his fight against Zoom on the giant ring? Because that's the only thing I can think of that would set the wheels in motion for SaviBarry (Sarry? Bavitar? Bartar?) killing Iris in the first place. Or maybe Iris dies in a different way and causes Barry to get all depressed and emo, sending him back in time to kill Iris himself to maybe spare past self from that other way she may have died but then it backfired like all of Barry's time-loving shenanigans or-- my head hurts
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May 3, 2017 05:29
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Barry you need to man up and pull an Eddie. He loved Iris and he knew what he had to do to save her  Then we can transition the show to The Vibe: I'm too lazy to train to better use my powers
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May 3, 2017 05:32
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Well at the start of the season we were talking about Barry being his own worst enemy with all the time travel poo poo so here we are.
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May 3, 2017 05:35
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ApeHawk posted:So, which time remnant is this? Is it the one that Barry used in his fight against Zoom on the giant ring? Because that's the only thing I can think of that would set the wheels in motion for SaviBarry (Sarry? Bavitar? Bartar?) killing Iris in the first place. Or maybe Iris dies in a different way and causes Barry to get all depressed and emo, sending him back in time to kill Iris himself to maybe spare past self from that other way she may have died but then it backfired like all of Barry's time-loving shenanigans or-- He can't be a remnant that old since he knew what happened in the warehouse this episode.
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May 3, 2017 06:03
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Rhyno posted:He can't be a remnant that old since he knew what happened in the warehouse this episode. Right, since Savitar knew where to meet Barry for the big reveal, that means the creation of the time remnant or alternate timeline or whatever that creates Savitar has to happen after the events of this episode. So Barry could save Iris by just killing himself. Which he won't because he's half the man Eddie was.
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May 3, 2017 06:10
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Barry creates the time remnant to help save Iris. This gets his face messed up, but also lets him know that he needs to become Savitar in order to kick off the events that lead to his own creation.
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May 3, 2017 06:17
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J33uk posted:Well at the start of the season we were talking about Barry being his own worst enemy with all the time travel poo poo so here we are.  (If Flash becomes a show about not-Barry, I nominate Eobard to take his place.)
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May 3, 2017 06:34
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I just gotta say I'm amazed the writers actually didn't pussy out on this, it's a pretty great twist.
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May 3, 2017 06:59
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Guy Goodbody posted:Barry could save Iris by just killing himself.
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May 3, 2017 07:05
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Robot Hobo posted:Twice now in three seasons they've found themselves in a situation where Iris' boyfriend could kill himself to make the season big-bad disappear in a puff of paradox. That's... oddly specific. Three, if you count the time remnant Barry who ran himself into oblivion to save everyone from Zoom and in doing so caused the Time Wraiths to poof Zolomon into the Speed Force (and into Black Flash) 
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May 3, 2017 07:08
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Considering how many stupid time travel movie plots revolve around the hero killing himself when he finds out he turns into the bad guy later, I'm honestly fine with Barry finding some other solution. Also, shouldn't present Barry just kick the Savitar suit's rear end before future Barry can get back inside it? Amber from House already established that future Barry can't Gotta go fast! when he's out of it (which I loving hope somebody told present Barry about), but present Barry's fine to run around pretty fast in his own normal red suit. Smashy smashy? Steal like the leg parts or something and run off into the night?
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May 3, 2017 08:06
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For the love of God give me just one episode where Barry realizes even though he can't throw a punch being super loving fast actually makes him good at fighting. Going in to super speed to save the scientist lady but getting hit by the Frost a couple seconds later is lame and it happens almost every episode.
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May 3, 2017 09:26
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Barry can't necessarily just kill himself to prevent Savitar from existing, Eddie killed himself and that ended up not preventing Thawne from existing, at least not all of the time. It only made him not exist some of the time, or something. Speed force. Anyway by the same logic Barry could just never create any time remnants ever again and get the same effect. And on that topic, based on the fact they replayed the clip from last week's episode of future Barry talking about creating time remnants to try to stop Savitar when current Barry was having his epiphany, I think the implication is this is one of those time remnants Barry created to try to stop Savitar in that final showdown, that went rogue ( ). Thus Savitar "created himself" or whatever he said in that other clip during the epiphany.
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May 3, 2017 09:40
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Kaitlyn being evil because of her powers is the stupidest poo poo ever, like what other time has that ever happened in DC?
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May 3, 2017 09:44
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Character motivations are for non-garbage art forms.
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May 3, 2017 09:48
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Like why is she all happy to team up with evil Barry?
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May 3, 2017 09:52
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:Kaitlyn being evil because of her powers is the stupidest poo poo ever, like what other time has that ever happened in DC? I seem to recall there were a couple of one-off Metas in season 1 who were explicitly stated to have been normal-ish people gone bonkers as a result of their powers, but I might be misremembering. The middle stretch of season 1 was a bit of a blur to me. Also the dude who wasn't Jax in the Firestorm episode from last year lost his loving mind as a result of Caitlyn activating his powers. So there's that too. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 09:59 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 09:56
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nine-gear crow posted:I seem to recall there were a couple of one-off Metas in season 1 who were explicitly stated to have been normal-ish people gone bonkers as a result of their powers, but I might be misremembering. The middle stretch of season 1 was a bit of a blur to me. In the case of some of them, it's more like they suddenly had access to powers and now could leverage them to get revenge or otherwise use it for their own, illegal or homicidal, benefit. In season 1, at least a good portion of them were already criminals. Caitlyn is pretty much the odd one out at this point because of the alternate personality.
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May 3, 2017 12:25
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Guy Goodbody posted:So Barry could save Iris by just killing himself. Which he won't because he's half the man Eddie was. Not emptyquoting this... Also barry talking to thawne and warning him that he was going to die is what let him escape that fate. And we also have direct evidence that evil will always triumph because good is dumb, barritar is much smarter than barry.
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May 3, 2017 13:31
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Grem posted:For the love of God give me just one episode where Barry realizes even though he can't throw a punch being super loving fast actually makes him good at fighting. Going in to super speed to save the scientist lady but getting hit by the Frost a couple seconds later is lame and it happens almost every episode. I mean, when people make complaints like this, I'm not sure that they've really thought it through. Being super loving fast actually makes him invincible. The logic of him getting punched by a regular guy hurts my head too, but the alternative is "Oh no, there's a new meta attacking the police sta--" "Okay, he's downstairs in No Lunch Supermax. Let's go get some coffee." Although with what we've gotten, I don't know that that's too much worse. There is no good reason for basically any future Barry to kill Iris and want to ruin everyone's lives. It's just not his character. It's going to be explained with "deep emotional moments" and it's still not going to be a satisfying explanation beyond "this is what the plot said to do".
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May 3, 2017 14:55
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Phenotype posted:I mean, when people make complaints like this, I'm not sure that they've really thought it through. Being super loving fast actually makes him invincible. The logic of him getting punched by a regular guy hurts my head too, but the alternative is "Oh no, there's a new meta attacking the police sta--" "Okay, he's downstairs in No Lunch Supermax. Let's go get some coffee." It is if he's not really Barry and he was just a time remnant created and fated to die to save Iris, who would later be trapped in the speedforce by Barry. I mean, all those things seem like they would piss off a person.
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May 3, 2017 15:05
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Stunt Rock posted:It is if he's not really Barry and he was just a time remnant created and fated to die to save Iris, who would later be trapped in the speedforce by Barry. I mean, all those things seem like they would piss off a person. You can talk about how he should shoot himself like Eddie did, but that won't happen simply because they can't have that be TWO season finales (and because the show is called The Flash). Barry created a time remnant when he was fighting Zoom that was willing to instantly kill himself to save the rest of the team -- he has consistently been shown to be the sort of self-sacrificing person who would shoulder that kind of burden if that's what it took to save the woman he loves. I mean, you are probably 100% correct, Barry gets sucked into the speedforce for a hundred years and goes crazy. It doesn't feel organic to the character, though, and it's going to be frustrating when there's no other overriding reason for Savitar's rampage besides "he went nuts." That was basically Zoom's motivation too, and it also felt pretty weak. Thawne, by comparison, was much more compelling -- "You've beaten me so many times throughout your future (my past), that I want to make you suffer."
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May 3, 2017 15:21
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Phenotype posted:You can talk about how he should shoot himself like Eddie did, but that won't happen simply because they can't have that be TWO season finales (and because the show is called The Flash). Barry created a time remnant when he was fighting Zoom that was willing to instantly kill himself to save the rest of the team -- he has consistently been shown to be the sort of self-sacrificing person who would shoulder that kind of burden if that's what it took to save the woman he loves. I mean, it's organic in the sense that he's just embracing his series-long lust for killing.
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May 3, 2017 15:32
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I'm okay with the reveal, but literally doing the whole "I am the future Flash" and pinning all of the reveal on a missing comma is just the most cringe-worthy, head-slapping poo poo ever. That was dumb
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May 3, 2017 17:40
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Mortanis posted:I'm okay with the reveal, but literally doing the whole "I am the future Flash" and pinning all of the reveal on a missing comma is just the most cringe-worthy, head-slapping poo poo ever. That was dumb It's something that Barry (who is dumb) would find funny, which is why he said it.
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May 3, 2017 20:30
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Since it has all of current Barry's memories, it's a time remnant created sometime after tonight's episode. And since they showed the flashback of Emo Flash saying "You'll even create time remnants, and he'll kill them all", they'll most certainly stop Savitar by Barry having a crucial moment where he needs to create a time remanant, and doesn't. Likely some situation involving fire. Show hasn't really done many curveballs and is pretty good about making sure everyone remembers applicable things. The only real x-factor is the doctor's idea to trap Savitar and how that will play. They focused on the suits with this one - she asked Barry how he avoids chafing in his current suit, and mentioned Savitar's suit shortly after, so that will play a part in the adventure. Of course, the real question is - if Scary Barry needs the Savitar suit for super speed, why didn't Barry just run and clothesline him when he took off his Power Rangers outfit.
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May 3, 2017 20:49
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Because as we all know, Barry is a moron. If Oliver had super speed this poo poo would have been solved in two episodes.
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May 3, 2017 20:53
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Medullah posted:Since it has all of current Barry's memories, it's a time remnant created sometime after tonight's episode. And since they showed the flashback of Emo Flash saying "You'll even create time remnants, and he'll kill them all", they'll most certainly stop Savitar by Barry having a crucial moment where he needs to create a time remanant, and doesn't. Likely some situation involving fire. Show hasn't really done many curveballs and is pretty good about making sure everyone remembers applicable things. I assume it's because Savitar is still a speedster, but the suit gives him an extra edge Edit: GreenNight posted:Because as we all know, Barry is a moron. Same but also for the recent Supergirl episode.
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May 3, 2017 20:52
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Phenotype posted:There is no good reason for basically any future Barry to kill Iris and want to ruin everyone's lives. I see it as Iris's death led to Barry becoming Savitar, so for him to exist as he is, he has to make it happen. Something of a paradox but eh, that's not really anything new for the series.
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May 3, 2017 20:51
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He needs the suit because he's faster than Barry.
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May 3, 2017 20:54
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He doesn't need to always move at top speed though.
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May 3, 2017 20:53
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Avalerion posted:He doesn't need to always move at top speed though. Exactly, which is why he was fine taking off the suit in front of Barry.
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May 3, 2017 21:10
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Maybe Iris will get super speed and Savitar kills a time remnant of her.  Either way, I predict a lot of "Whatever you guys want to plan, I *can't* know about it!" over the final episodes.
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May 3, 2017 21:16
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If Savitar is Barry that means Savitar is also an idiot. This barrel has no bottom.
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May 3, 2017 21:30
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GreenNight posted:Because as we all know, Barry is a moron. Wrong. There would be at least one or two episodes of Felicity crytalking and Oliver telling people NOT to do what he is doing because of ~*the darkness inside*~
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May 3, 2017 21:56
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Isn't the more likely thing to say that this Barry from the Speedforce dimension that didn't get wiped out when RF "fixed" things. Also, now that Barry knows, can't he put on his planner: Don't Be Evil Like... 1) Fight Mirror Master 2) Watch movie with Cisco 3) Dinner with Joe 4) Don't be evil 5) Run tests on hit and run on 5th
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May 3, 2017 22:01
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Mooseontheloose posted:Isn't the more likely thing to say that this Barry from the Speedforce dimension that didn't get wiped out when RF "fixed" things. I don't think so unless the show is REALLY dumb...the whole point of this episode was that Scary Barry remembers everything that is happening, Flashpoint Barry wouldn't remember because he split before things happen.
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May 3, 2017 22:10
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Scyantific posted:Wrong. There would be at least one or two episodes of Felicity crytalking and Oliver telling people NOT to do what he is doing because of ~*the darkness inside*~ Well yeah, but then he would solve everything in 10 seconds flat, so it would still take only 2 episodes 
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May 3, 2017 22:36
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Xarn posted:Well yeah, but then he would solve everything in 10 seconds flat, so it would still take only 2 episodes
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May 3, 2017 23:07
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