Tired Moritz posted:

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Rudolf or Kyrie.

They haven't got an chapter of their own yet.

idonotlikepeas posted:

OK. There's a theory that I've been hanging onto for a long while, and maybe now is a good time to get into it. What you seem to be implying here is that in the canonical world, the world of the actual events that really happened in Rokkenjima, not in any of these bottle stories, Sayo might not be the culprit, but the culprit has found the golden land. I think Sayo definitely found the golden land... but almost certainly isn't the culprit.

Sayo planned the murders. The first two bottles are evidence of that; she is the only person that could reasonably have written those before the murders, including Beatrice as they do, and that's the only time they could have been written. Someone was jotting down fake stories during the actual days of the murders? There's just no time to write this amount of text, and everyone's going to be too busy even if they could otherwise have done it. She, as Maria's friend (we have copious if indirect evidence of this), is the most likely person to sign Maria's name to those stories. If she found the gold, she had the means to pay off the families of her future victims. If she's also the child that got pitched off a cliff, that provides a hell of a motive as well as a reason to be a little screwed up in the head. I think it's therefore established, at least provisionally, that she planned to kill everyone. But there is one piece of evidence that has been bothering me about this. Specifically, this: Eva did not reveal the identity of the killer, and refused to discuss the events on Rokkenjima. She refused to do this even though suspicion would naturally fall on her. Why? For what purpose? If the murderer was a servant that was actually an abandoned child from years ago or whatever, it might be embarrassing to the family, but much less so than the living head being considered a murderer. She would have told the truth in that case. Instead, she said nothing. If she didn't know who the killer was, she would have said that, instead. She didn't do that either.

For dramatic reasons, I do not believe that Eva was the killer. Eliminating her as a suspect, there are only two plausible scenarios I can construct that make this evidence make sense. The first is if a member of her own family is responsible, since she wouldn't want to tarnish their memories. I have seen nothing that suggests to me that Hideyoshi can or would plan murders without getting her involvement, and frankly I don't think he'd stand much of a chance of succeeding without her help. George has the aptitude, but despite my best efforts I have been unable to get him on any murders, or figure out a way he can fit into that role. He may actually be the slightly weird but genuinely well-intentioned person he appears to be.

That brings us to the other possibility. If Eva isn't trying to protect her own memories of her dead family... what if she's trying to protect Ange's? What would it do to Ange to know that her family was involved? How could you lay that kind of burden on a tiny child? Eva's silence makes perfect sense in that case. Ange is incapable of recognizing that Eva loved her, in her own screwed up way... without understanding love, she can't see the reason. So I'll put down some money on this roulette square. The real killers are Rudolf and Kyrie. I don't know how exactly Sayo's plot went wrong, or if it just collided with theirs, but I'm sure of it. This is what this means:


Imagine having that kid hate you every day, but never telling her the secret that would destroy her. That's love, right?

Tender Child Loins posted:

I was already in a mood but now... oh man.

Neopie posted:

Okay. Unrelated, but I have to ask,what's with your username?

Neopie posted:

Okay. Unrelated, but I have to ask,what's with your username?

ZiegeDame posted:

Rudolf and Kyrie both die at the start of the first two games. Their death is even confirmed in red for the first game. But I can counter this twisted logic that even lead you down this path. The reason post-Ep-3 Eva won't talk about what really happened on that island is whatever else happened, she absolutely detective-saw-it-for-sure shot Battler dead. She is a murderer. If she tried to tell a mostly true story about what happened, but lie about the bit where she killed her nephew in cold blood, there's always the chance some evidence will be found that contradicts whatever story she told, raising suspicion. Better to not say anything and wait until the cops find something to worry about lying to cover your rear end.

curiousCat posted:

At this point, everyone has died in one of the games.

ProfessorProf posted:

"Gohda-san's a splendid chef. He's the only reason anyone'd ever want to come to this island."
"I am most honored. Battler-sama, I do hope that you look forward to your meals during your stay."
"I can't wait...! I'll be looking forward to it!"

ZiegeDame posted:

You're using Sayo as interchangeable with Kanon here, right? Otherwise I'll need some explanation of this evidence of being friends with Maria.

ZiegeDame posted:

Rudolf and Kyrie both die at the start of the first two games. Their death is even confirmed in red for the first game. But I can counter this twisted logic that even lead you down this path. The reason post-Ep-3 Eva won't talk about what really happened on that island is whatever else happened, she absolutely detective-saw-it-for-sure shot Battler dead. She is a murderer. If she tried to tell a mostly true story about what happened, but lie about the bit where she killed her nephew in cold blood, there's always the chance some evidence will be found that contradicts whatever story she told, raising suspicion. Better to not say anything and wait until the cops find something to worry about lying to cover your rear end.

Qrr posted:

Where did I argue that the detective was shown things that didn't exist?

Tender Child Loins posted:

A few years ago, I posted in a FYAD name change thread and Zach (I think) stuck me with this. I just haven't had a good idea for a name change, plus I can't justify spending the money to do it. vv

Zack Ater posted:

So... Ange is reading this story about Battler as GM to Featherine, which makes it a meta-layer "above" the main story, right? But now Virgilia and the new Beatrice came to the meta-layer, presumably as part of that story?

idonotlikepeas posted:

In every different universe, different people die. Knox's 2nd. It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique. Multiple universes are supernatural, whether you believe in them or not. Eva's guilt or innocence in one timeline can't be used to determine her guilt or innocence in another. The universe I am referring to as "canonical", the one that leads to Ange's world, has not yet been seen. The stories so far were written by Sayo (the first two) and a web author (the latter three). They are not true.

You can certainly theorize that Eva did it. As I said, my objection there is purely dramatic; the entire world of 1998 thinks she did it, including Ange. After all that, having her actually be the murderer would deflate the entire story. Keep in mind, the story claims the witch of theatregoing to be the most important; while witches don't actually exist, one could see that inclusion as symbolic of the importance of drama to the narrative.

Neopie posted:

give me a week and I will personally paypal you the money so I never have to see your username again. I mean this with all respect, you're one of the best posters in this thread, every post you make is fantastic, but OH MY GOD I CANNOT STAND YOUR USERNAME I HAVE CONVULSIONS EVERY TIME I SEE IT

Cyouni posted:

If you argue that Erika wasn't given a clue about Kanon=Shannon, then she has to be shown things that don't exist. She's been in the same room as both of them numerous times, and has seen them as separate people.

Tender Child Loins posted:

Hahaha! Thanks? To be honest, I kind of feel that way about the name too, so I usually didn't post much. Sorry for inadvertently creeping you out. I guess everyone's been making fun of my name in the Discord chat, huh?

Tender Child Loins posted:

Hahaha! Thanks? To be honest, I kind of feel that way about the name too, so I usually didn't post much. Sorry for inadvertently creeping you out. I guess everyone's been making fun of my name in the Discord chat, huh?

idonotlikepeas posted:

Imagine having that kid hate you every day, but never telling her the secret that would destroy her. That's love, right?

little_firebird posted:

EagerSleeper posted:

Also they both wear hats.

ZiegeDame posted:

We do know that every must conform to certain rules, rules which meta-Beatrice is the personification of. If one of those rules isn't the identity of the culprit at the very least, then I don't see what the point of the game is.

Or to put it another way, if the four mysteries presented to us are completely unrelated, then reasoning is impossible, and it would not be necessary to understand the previous games to create your own.

Tender Child Loins posted:

I guess everyone's been making fun of my name in the Discord chat, huh?

EagerSleeper posted:

Same eye color, same brooch jewel. Also they both wear hats.

EagerSleeper posted:

^^^^


How does this manage to be really cute yet devastating at the same time?

The Shannon/Kanon theory was pretty interesting in the beginning because it answered some interesting questions, but now that there is battle over whether Shannon will be with George or Kanon being with Jessica, it's tantalizingly almost confirmed. But allow me to toss in more chips to the pile.



Same eye color, same brooch jewel. Also they both wear hats.

oath2order posted:

If it makes you feel better, I just learned that one of the newer Witches shipped me and Resurgam when they were going through the thread.

Witchchat is an entire layer of meta above the LP thead that you are probably better off not thinking about too deeply.

resurgam40 posted:

^^^


E...Eh? Really? Um... doing wh- no no no, don't answer that.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Kyrie got more attention in 4 then the other adults.

Tired Moritz posted:

Anime artstyle. I think George is supposed to be chubby but he has super kicks so idk.

resurgam40 posted:

There's also a lot of time and opportunity to change clothes, too, as they seem to get different shifts, and the island, I'm sure, has a lot of nooks and rooms for a clothing stash. I don't really see how complication of clothing is a factor, because A) anime art style and B) the devil's proof of a lot of clothing stashes and the unreliability of a lot of testimonies pretty much makes clothes-changing a free action.

idonotlikepeas posted:

Old-school mittenhands art:




Faces and eyes are still very similar.

idonotlikepeas posted:

I don't think that's one of the rules. I think the rules are more about the starting conditions of the game and the personalities of the people involved. If you fully understand both the starting and ending conditions, you can create a number of different mysteries, with different culprits. It's absolutely impossible for the culprit to be Eva in some games and she's shown as at least one of the culprits in Episode Three, so I think there's at least some evidence for this.

ZiegeDame posted:

Let's define our terms here. When I say 'the culprit' I don't mean every person who killed someone in a given game. I mean Beatrice, the person to whom the giant pile of gold belongs, the person who signed Maria's grimoire, the person who wrote the bottle stories, the person who Battler sinned against, the person who sent fat stacks of cash to Nanjo and Kumasawa's next of kin, the person who gave the letter to Maria challenging the family to solve the epitaph, and the person who confronted Battler at the end of episode 4. The person the final question "Who am I?" refers to.

If that person isn't the same across games, then there's no point to any of this.

idonotlikepeas posted:

Oh, I agree with all of that. Sayo is always the prime mover. That doesn't mean she murdered anyone, though. It's hard to say how we could have gotten to Battler's parents as the killers, because that timeline has not been presented yet. I could come up with scenarios that explain it, but they'd just be inventing things from whole cloth. You might say, I have a theory about the whodunnit based on some evidence, but not the howdunnit or the whydunnit yet. (I suspect the why part involves large stacks of cash.)

Tired Moritz posted:

Battle Royale situation?

EagerSleeper posted:

Qrr posted:

Has she ever interacted with both of them in the same scene? If we see a person and Erika doesn't talk about them or interact with them, then we don't have evidence that they're there. We aren't seeing from her viewpoint.

ProfessorProf posted:

"...Oh, sorry. Could you close that door for me?"
""Y, yes...""

Shannon and Kanon closed the door. Since they had just now decided to lock all doors and windows carefully, Kanon locked it. The lock which existed to protect the safety of this room... felt like a lock on a prison cell to Natsuhi... one that would hold her there and prevent any escape...

ZiegeDame posted:

The Detective has never once seen Kanon's dead body.

curiousCat posted:

Episode 1?

Cyouni posted:

How many people does it take to close a door?

Tender Child Loins posted:

A few years ago, I posted in a FYAD name change thread and Zach (I think) stuck me with this. I just haven't had a good idea for a name change, plus I can't justify spending the money to do it. vv