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Groovelord Neato posted:why do they all speak english. why are most of them either human or humanoid despite the fact any alien species would actually be completely different from us in almost inconceivable ways. why is rocket a raccoon. Don't ask these like they are rhetorical questions. Do you think in 100 years of comic books no one has ever thought to answer these questions? Peter has a translator in his neck under his ear that they show in a bunch of scenes. Rocket is a raccoon because halfworld is a mental hospital for humans and earth life that were used to populate some planet sealed away inside a giant dome. Everyone is humanoid because the universe has been seeded (like a million times in a bunch of different contradictory stories. )
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May 8, 2017 13:53
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i hate comic books.
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May 8, 2017 13:56
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're just repeating that it's trippy and inspiring because "there's a skull of a dead god". It's actually a pretty sedate sequence despite the concept, and as mentioned the framing, use of negative space, and colour make it unimpressive. It's pretty damned impressive. You pretty obviously want a stark, high-contrast, clear shot of Knowhere. Instead, it's placed in a (colourful) nebula, in keeping with the film's aesthetic of space being beautiful and colourful instead of cold, bleak, and empty. It looks mysterious (because it represents an unknowable entity from before time, one closely tied to the McGuffin they're carrying). You're just pissy because...what? The movie isn't catering to your specific aesthetic? Sorry.
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May 8, 2017 13:57
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quote:In the MCU, scotch tape was invented by aliens so it's an item used throughout the galaxy. Groovelord Neato posted:why do they all speak english. why are most of them either human or humanoid despite the fact any alien species would actually be completely different from us in almost inconceivable ways. why is rocket a raccoon. Not really the same, the "no one gets Quill's pop culture references" thing is played pretty constantly which is kind of weird. You think someone would've watched some TV or listened to some music since it seems like Earth is the only culture with it. I'm more saying that someone should get a few of those rather than that no one should have known what a Taser is.
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May 8, 2017 14:01
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The only actual "plot-hole" I notice is when Ego says, after he gained consciousness, his first goal was to become "human" with the model showing him with a pink alien girl. Not "a sentient creature" or anything, but specifically human. Then Quill says "When did you meet my mom?" answered with "a few months later". It's very strange for him to become sentient and immediately want to be specifically human when he illustrates the story with meeting other races.
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May 8, 2017 14:05
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Phylodox posted:It's pretty damned impressive. You pretty obviously want a I don't want the movie to do anything. I've just observed whats's in the movie. I've also observed the framing, colouring, composition, but you seem to be flabbergasted by just the concept of a giant head in space. It's only as intriguing as it's presented, which is not very. That's why it's even less impressive when they enter the generic sci-fi city (again, forgive the oxymoron) inside it. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:15 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 14:10
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Nail Rat posted:Huh, how about that. Well, Quills working with limited knowledge of 70's and some 80's earth pop culture. Why would aliens, who have access to an unlimited amount of pop culuture fron their respective species and neighboring planets want to concentrate on what Earth is offering? They have brothel planets with alien music, I'm sure there's alien TV, we just don't really have to see it in the context of the story. Also, specifically, the Guardians crew wouldn't know pop culture. Gamora and Nebula and Rocket were slaves, Groot can't talk, Drax doesn't care, he doesn't even dance. Quill's Zune has 300 songs on it, from a junker on some planet, so it's not that Earth has the only pop culture, it's just no one really cares. I know J Pop is a thing, I have an idea of what it sounds like, but I don't care and won't listen to it.
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May 8, 2017 14:10
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't want the movie to do anything. I've just observed whats's in the movie. Poorly. And, frankly, with an obvious bias.
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May 8, 2017 14:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:why do they all speak english. why are most of them either human or humanoid despite the fact any alien species would actually be completely different from us in almost inconceivable ways. why is rocket a raccoon. Because the Celestials made most if not all life, and they like to watch it all bang each other out.
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May 8, 2017 14:20
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Franchescanado posted:The only actual "plot-hole" I notice is when [spoiler]Ego says, after he gained consciousness, his first goal was to become "human" with the model showing him with a pink alien girl. That isn't a plot hole, that was the whole concept of the gag, He was a formless god and made his own image of what a perfect sentient being would be out of nothing and it happened to be a 1970s looking dude in 1970s with a 1970s perm. He then searched the universe fruitlessly with failure after failure till he happened to find the 1970s planet (earth) where he finally found true love (and genetic compatibility). It's a very hitchhiker's guide style joke concept.
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May 8, 2017 14:23
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You know, I think Quill would have a much easier time readjusting to Earth culture than Steve Rogers.
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May 8, 2017 14:25
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Phylodox posted:Poorly. And, frankly, with an obvious bias. I've been very accurate. It's not very hard to note things like how the visual and narrative concepts of the GOTG movies are average at best, like how Star-Lord's/Yondu's ships, the space prison, and Knowhere form this really samey 'gritty' aesthetic, or how the one really intriguing sci-fi sequence (Star-Lord entering Morag) is just a set-up for a joke about how the movie isn't like that. With GOTG2 it's equally obvious despite the more outlandish ideas, because you can compare it to it's inspiration with MoS - the nightmare vision shown by the villain for example is utterly underwhelming. Space being colourful isnt a particularly daring or exciting concept, compared to Kirby's psychedelia or NASA's awe-inspiring fabrications. Groovelord Neato posted:i hate comic books. Maybe you haven't just read good ones? I recommend classics like Valerian and Laureline. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:31 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 14:29
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So with everyone else in the case be a comic book character from a comic book, who is the guy who's the last man from Yonda's crew who joins the Guardians at the end? I thought he was a random reg shirt and ended up joining the crew and having a new captain. "They killed all my friends" really hit home to me - he grew from an extra with a speaking part to being part of the crew. I don't recall his name, so going by Galaxy Quest logic he won't live long 
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May 8, 2017 14:37
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Comstar posted:So with everyone else in the case be a comic book character from a comic book, who is the guy who's the last man from Yonda's crew who joins the Guardians at the end? I thought he was a random reg shirt and ended up joining the crew and having a new captain. "They killed all my friends" really hit home to me - he grew from an extra with a speaking part to being part of the crew. What matters here I think is that he's played by Sean Gunn, James' brother. So I don't think you need to worry about him getting snuffed out any time soon.
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May 8, 2017 14:42
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His name is Kraglin. I don't know if he's from any of the comics, but he's played by James Gunn's brother, Sean Gunn. edit: He also does all the motion capture for Rocket. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 14:41
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In the comics he's aparently some furry alien wearing a robot suit that tried to conquer the earth or something once.
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May 8, 2017 14:43
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I've been very accurate. It's not very hard to note things like how the visual and narrative concepts of the GOTG movies are average at best, like how Star-Lord's/Yondu's ships, the space prison, and Knowhere form this really samey 'gritty' aesthetic Not really? The Kyln is very red, angular, industrial looking. Knowhere is colder, more expansive, cluttered, filled with garish neon signs. They're both kind of dirty looking, I guess? quote:or how the one really intriguing sci-fi sequence (Star-Lord entering Morag) is just a set-up for a joke about how the movie isn't like that. If that's all you took from that scene, then you really aren't delving very deeply into this movie. quote:Space being colourful isnt a particularly daring or exciting concept, compared to Kirby's psychedelia or NASA's awe-inspiring fabrications. "Space being colourful isn't exciting because it is not exactly like these things, one of which is extremely similar and an obvious inspiration."
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May 8, 2017 14:48
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Avalerion posted:In the comics he's aparently some furry alien wearing a robot suit that tried to conquer the earth or something once. So basically 
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May 8, 2017 14:49
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Detective No. 27 posted:So basically Amazingly close, actually. 
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May 8, 2017 14:58
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Take a lap. Franchescanado posted:His name is Kraglin. I don't know if he's from any of the comics, but he's played by James Gunn's brother, Sean Gunn. Dude does movie work hour days crouching down to play a loving raccoon, and his brother is the writer/director. I don't see anyone else trying for his gig.
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May 8, 2017 15:05
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Franchescanado posted:The only actual "plot-hole" I notice is when Ego says, after he gained consciousness, his first goal was to become "human" with the model showing him with a pink alien girl. Not "a sentient creature" or anything, but specifically human. Then Quill says "When did you meet my mom?" answered with "a few months later". It's very strange for him to become sentient and immediately want to be specifically human when he illustrates the story with meeting other races. On the other hand, Ego is telling a story tailored specifically to Quill, and there's no reason to take his account as a 100% accurate account of events. Especially when he's later found out to be omitting the truth.
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May 8, 2017 15:11
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Mars4523 posted:On the other hand, Ego is telling a story tailored specifically to Quill, and there's no reason to take his account as a 100% accurate account of events. Especially when he's later found out to be omitting the truth. I agree, I mentioned it because my friends discussed it. I love that Ego says he's the sailor in the song Brandy, but purposefully omits the line "but he had always told the truth", which Ego basically lies about everything by leaving out and twisting the major details. He can't even relate to the song he uses to justify his actions.
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May 8, 2017 15:17
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Phylodox posted:Not really? The Kyln is very red, angular, industrial looking. Knowhere is colder, more expansive, cluttered, filled with garish neon signs. They're both kind of dirty looking, I guess? You seem to be confused, because both the space prison and Knowhere are industrial in nature. They're both visually extremely busy, with omnipresent fog/steam about, and lit with alternating murk and hazy glow. Star-Lord's/Yondu's ships are the same way inside. The Morag scene is distinguished being the single sequence where the movie evokes mystery and grandeur, and the point of it is to set up a joke about how the movie is not like that. Phylodox posted:"Space being colourful isn't exciting because it is not exactly like these things, one of which is extremely similar and an obvious inspiration." Your style of criticism is very reactive, you're just limply trying to swat any criticism that come GotG's way, so you end up just nuh-uhing to everything. I end up having more appreciation for GotG as a movie, whose accomplishments are in creating highly detailed and polished if generic sci-fi environments. GotG movies don't have very exciting character designs. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 15:16
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Human probably just means people in context, I think Peter in particular gets called a teran at some point.
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May 8, 2017 15:20
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Yeah I liked this a lot, probably better than the first which was mostly about Quill being a manchild who...beat the bad guy by being a manchild, and made some friends because he broke out of prison with them (and Groot kind of talked everyone into it). This was better about having a central theme to tie everyone into (dysfunctional/adopted families). It was flawed tho, Gyges' post from a few pages back is pretty spot on:Gyges posted:While I appreciate what they were doing with it, I felt like Rocket and Yandu's arc was a little forced and rushed. A little too much telling everyone what they are feeling and the lesson they are learning right now. Same with the Gamora and Nebula resolution. Just a little too quick and a little too much I will say exactly how I am feeling and what I am processing at this moment. also, goddamn they needed to stop overly explaining metaphors. Specifically the part explaining that "Brandy" was just like Ego's life, and then later when Drax explained they were family. Like at the beginning of the movie when they were playing "Brandy" I turned to my wife and semi-sarcastically was like "see, the song is a metaphor because he is like the sailor and space is like the sea  " and she was like "well, duh..." and then an hour later a character explained that poo poo in detail for 5 minutes of screentime! It could have been played for laughs with Quill going "yeah, no I get it you're the sailor, mom is Brandy...no it's a very clever metaphor, thank you..." but it was played totally straight.Then later when Nebula said "you guys aren't friends, all you do is fight" and it was so obvious they were going for the super cliche "we fight... cause we're family..." which they did but then went on to further hammer the explanation into your skulls for another minute or two It just seemed like they actually did have a bunch of clever and well done themes but then someone came in and was like "hold up, this is too complex for the average MCU fan, maybe just say exactly what the themes of the movie are in a few places? Really just hold their hands as tightly as possible." Which is a little insulting. BravestOfTheLamps posted:I've been very accurate. Ehhhhhhhh. You've been fairly accurate in repeating CineD critiques about GotG1 which is 80-85% what you've been talking about in this thread. So far your criticisms of GotG2 have been 1) that it pulls pretty liberally from MoS which you've said is one of the best super hero movies visually anyway (so it makes sense that Gunn would aim for that and fail IMO) and 2) that it's real bad and mediocre you guys. You've also talked about MoS's influences but haven't mentioned the other super blatant Snyder reference: Doc Manhattan from Watchmen The diorama thing was pretty insightful though, try talking more about stuff like that rather than rehashing GotG1 arguments. Otherwise I am going to wait until SMg weighs in.
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May 8, 2017 15:23
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Your style of criticism is very reactive All criticism is reactive friend shitposter, that's the point. If you were actually doing something of your own you wouldn't be a critic, you'd be an artist.
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May 8, 2017 15:24
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Franchescanado posted:I agree, I mentioned it because my friends discussed it. I thought that was one of the most groan inducing parts of the whole movie to hear Kurt Russel break down song lyrics. The more I think about my experience with this movie is that it wasn't very good. Sure some jokes make you laugh but all of the stuff of substance seemed poorly handled.
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May 8, 2017 15:26
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Avalerion posted:Human probably just means people in context, I think Peter in particular gets called a teran at some point. Yeah but like, him being a starman from a 1970s sci-fi is the whole point. It's poking fun at how silly that super common trope was. He could have made anything and he made his body a 1970s dude in 1970s clothes then came to earth and found true love. The twist isn't that he was lying, the twist is the rest of that story where he went to 10,000 other planets first and did not find true love and actually it was awful.
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May 8, 2017 15:26
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Harlock posted:I thought that was one of the most groan inducing parts of the whole movie to hear Kurt Russel break down song lyrics. It was a little clunky, but the point is, he's wrong. The song is called Brandy, not Sailor. It's not about the Sailor being a pragmatic hero and leaving, it's about how he's selfishly devoted to a calling and leaves Brandy alone and heartbroken, never able to love again. It's made worse by the fact that the Sailor of the song is in the military or something, he's devoted to another. Ego's devotion is self-made and self-important. It doesn't apply to him at all, other than he's a selfish rear end in a top hat
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May 8, 2017 15:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to be confused, because both the space prison and Knowhere are industrial in nature. They're both visually extremely busy, with omnipresent fog/steam about, and lit with alternating murk and hazy glow. Star-Lord's/Yondu's ships are the same way inside. Knowhere doesn't look industrial. It looks more like, as they say in the film, a lawless frontier mining town. It's purpose is industrial, but it looks very organic and lived in, very messy and chaotic. You're using some very general terms (visually busy, hazy glow) to try and unify two different aesthetics. The Kyln is angular girders and walkways, while Knowhere is messy, sprawling outlaw town with a huge spinal cord in the background. quote:The Morag scene is distinguished being the single sequence where the movie evokes mystery and grandeur, and the point of it is to set up a joke about how the movie is not like that. The whole entrance to Knowhere sequence is nothing but mystery and grandeur. Imgur is down right now, or I'd post screen caps. But whatever, you're just going to disagree, because: quote:Your style of criticism is very reactive, you're just limply trying to swat any criticism that come GotG's way, so you end up just nuh-uhing to everything. I'm essentially doing a better job defending GotG's visuals, whose accomplishments are creating highly detailed if generic sci-fi environments. Dude, your entire posting gimmick is "nuh-uh". People, myself included, have tried, repeatedly, and citing examples, to explain to you some of the stuff that's going on in Guardians of the Galaxy and your response is always, "No, that's not happening." You just keep falling back on your "No, it's just rote sci-fi" schtick. Well, have fun with that. I'm sure determinedly going out of your way to not enjoy or understand good films will take you far in life.
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May 8, 2017 15:44
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Nail Rat posted:Huh, how about that. Oh I don't know. I made it up because it sounded plausible.
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May 8, 2017 16:01
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Phylodox posted:Knowhere doesn't look industrial. It looks more like, as they say in the film, a lawless frontier mining town. It's purpose is industrial, but it looks very organic and lived in, very messy and chaotic. You're using some very general terms (visually busy, hazy glow) to try and unify two different aesthetics. The Kyln is angular girders and walkways, while Knowhere is messy, sprawling outlaw town with a huge spinal cord in the background. I'm desciribing a recurring aesthetic in GotG, one that's not particularly dynamic or interesting but is neverheless overused. It is highly detailed and polished, which is its real accomplishment, otherwise it doesn't convey any interesting story beyond looking pretty sometimes. Like, the prison is rectangular and has walkways? There's so much more you could do with the concept of a sci-fi prison that's the dark underbelly of the bright, 'heroic' civilization. Like you could make it unnervingly bright and clean to connect it with Xandar. Or Knowhere, which barely uses its anatomic motif - I could imagine a better sequence where the heroes travel across an entire giant corpse being picked apart by the scum of the galaxy. Dock at the fingers, wait for the meeting in the cerebral cortex by going to the crotch's entertainment district. Phylodox posted:Dude, your entire posting gimmick is "nuh-uh". People, myself included, have tried, repeatedly, and citing examples, to explain to you some of the stuff that's going on in Guardians of the Galaxy and your response is always, "No, that's not happening." You just keep falling back on your "No, it's just rote sci-fi" schtick. Well, have fun with that. I'm sure determinedly going out of your way to not enjoy or understand good films will take you far in life. You've misunderstood my posts then. I generally agree with people's readings and interpretations of these movies, and what's "going on in" them. I agree that GotG is a movie about people overcoming loss, and that GotG 2 is a movie about overcoming egotism, and so on and so on. It's just what's "going on in" them is a very lame sci-fi adventure that's adulated because it's segregated from proper critical context. Guy A. Person posted:You've also talked about MoS's influences but haven't mentioned the other super blatant Snyder reference: Doc Manhattan from Watchmen  Guy A. Person posted:The diorama thing was pretty insightful though, try talking more about stuff like that rather than rehashing GotG1 arguments. Well consider the material I have to work with. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 16:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:why do they all speak english. why are most of them either human or humanoid despite the fact any alien species would actually be completely different from us in almost inconceivable ways. why is rocket a raccoon. They don't all speak English. Peter has a translator embedded in his neck: 
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May 8, 2017 16:11
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Well consider the material I have to work with. Why don't you? Convicted Bibliophile posted:They don't all speak English. Peter has a translator embedded in his neck: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can see it in a lot of scenes in the 3rd act.
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May 8, 2017 16:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm desciribing a recurring aesthetic in GotG, one that's not particularly dynamic or interesting but is neverheless overused. It is highly detailed and polished, which is its real accomplishment, otherwise it doesn't convey any interesting story beyond looking pretty sometimes. Like, the prison is rectangular and has walkways? There's so much more you could do with the concept of a sci-fi prison that's the dark underbelly of the bright, 'heroic' civilization. Like you could make it unnervingly bright and clean to connect it with Xandar. Or Knowhere, which barely uses its anatomic motif - I could imagine a better sequence where the heroes travel across an entire giant corpse being picked apart by the scum of the galaxy. Dock at the fingers, wait for the meeting in the cerebral cortex by going to the crotch's entertainment district. So "diffused light" is an overused aesthetic? Visually busy? They're both seedy-looking places with a lot going on, basically. One looks like, well, a prison, while the other looks kind of like the streets in Blade Runner. And you keep getting mad that the movie isn't doing things it's not trying to, but that you want it to. The Kyln is a rough place full of corruption and danger. It's the rear end-end of the Xandar empire. It's obviously somewhere neglected by the empire because that's where they shuffle off all the people they don't want to think about. The aesthetic reflects that. And, again, Knowhere is a giant head where they get knowledge. Its name is literally "know here". Why would it be a whole body? quote:You've misunderstood my posts then. I generally agree with people's readings and interpretations of these movies, and what's "going on in" them. I agree that GotG is a movie about people overcoming loss, and that GotG 2 is a movie about overcoming egotism, and so on and so on. You spent pages trying to refute what I and others were saying about it, but sure, you agree with us, you just think that it's "lame" for some reason. Fine, whatever. Also, no grandeur here: 
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May 8, 2017 16:27
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Well consider the material I have to work with. I'm sure at the very least there are more Snyder or even other film references and callbacks. Like thinking about it it occurs to me that the final fight is an inversion of the Zod fight because it's Peter who begins levitating and unlocking his true potential, taking on extra mass (in the form of Ego's matter) in contrast to Zod who shed his armor to gain his new power. There's also gotta be more film references, I'm not great at that usually so the only one I caught was the super obvious North by Northwest shot, but it made me mindful that there was probably more stuff like that.
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May 8, 2017 16:27
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Something I haven't seen anyone point out yet: GotGv2 is basically a Knowhere prequel movie.
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May 8, 2017 16:28
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I could imagine a better sequence where the heroes travel across an entire giant corpse being picked apart by the scum of the galaxy. Dock at the fingers, wait for the meeting in the cerebral cortex by going to the crotch's entertainment district. Yo bro I actually agree with you on a lot of points but you keep going back to this IMAGINE IF IT WAS A WHOLE CORPSE!!! thing and I gotta tell you that's lame as gently caress.
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May 8, 2017 16:31
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Just as a reminder (to myself as well as I just had to look it up) Peter was abducted in 1988. I thought it was early 80's for some reason but I haven't seen the first movie since it landed on blu. Reason for that I was trying to understand when Knight Rider came out and PacMan. Knight Rider - 1982 PacMan - 1980 I am sure they all checked their references just to be safe that it came out no later than 1988.
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May 8, 2017 16:31
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Vintersorg posted:Just as a reminder (to myself as well as I just had to look it up) Peter was abducted in 1988. I thought it was early 80's for some reason but I haven't seen the first movie since it landed on blu. Reason for that I was trying to understand when Knight Rider came out and PacMan. How old are you? I'm guessing Gunn had no problem remembering those were both early 80's things. 
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May 8, 2017 16:35
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