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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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rudatron posted:Its really weird how "white people are racist" has itself become a racial stereotype. Its particularly egregious when you start comparing it to racism in other countries. When we talk about racism in countries like China, or the Middle East, or whatever, the cause is always (correctly) seen as relating to education or development or whatever. Yet, when talking about it in the white community, its assumed to be caused by a malevolent spirit, that can only ever be exorcised through the ritualistic blood sacrifice of appalachians. thank you for explaining why anti-racists are the real racists, antifascists are the real fascists, and counterrevolutionaries are the real revolutionaries
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May 10, 2017 15:04
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:do you live in America? I lament the people, not a person who lost a winnable election by expecting people to vote for her out of fear of Trump, and refusing to directly (key word here; directly- a "website article" doesn't cut it) address the economic concerns of the working class. Which includes minorities; who are disproportionately more likely to be in extreme poverty. And even minorities care more about making next month's rent than whatever the orange loudmouth says. And I don't blame anybody that kept working through the voting period, rather than vote for someone that provably and historically doesn't give a poo poo about anybody but the well off, and simply expects their votes like it's her divine right of being the Democratic Candidate. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 16:45
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:do you live in America? it's canadian
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May 10, 2017 16:52
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rudatron posted:Its really weird how "white people are racist" has itself become a racial stereotype. Its particularly egregious when you start comparing it to racism in other countries. When we talk about racism in countries like China, or the Middle East, or whatever, the cause is always (correctly) seen as relating to education or development or whatever. Yet, when talking about it in the white community, its assumed to be caused by a malevolent spirit, that can only ever be exorcised through the ritualistic blood sacrifice of appalachians. I don't think it's the same thing. I agree that it's wrong, but not in the same way racism is. I think the real sin of the sort of people you describe is that they don't seem to have any real intention of trying to affect meaningful change. Like most people, they enjoy the feeling of "being right" and find it fun to "crack down" on people who wrong. Because they usually aren't personally very exposed to the effects of things like racism or poverty, they don't feel any pressure to actually fix those problems. What complicates things is that the correct view ("people aren't randomly evil and various conditions usually lead to stuff like racism") sounds like you're trying to make excuses for racism, especially if you're saying it to a minority group who experiences the effects of racism. I think the best approach is to not criticize people who get off on saying "lol white people are so racist*!" (since it's not like they're going to change) and instead focus on positive advocacy for policy/ideology that would help address the effects of racism (like reforming welfare, investing in poor minority communities, more aggressively cracking down on institutional racism, universal healthcare, etc). That has the effect of either reorient things in a more productive direction or forcing them to oppose obviously helpful ideas. *I'm only referring to other white people saying this. Actual minorities have an excuse and should be free to vent.
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May 10, 2017 17:07
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https://twitter.com/JStein_Vox/status/862338882469330944 why even
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May 10, 2017 17:25
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Yeah, this is why people on the left are so exasperated with Democrats, in case anyone is wondering.
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May 10, 2017 17:29
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Holding out for support from GOP. How is this sentence even possible in 2016.
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May 10, 2017 17:33
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Stupidity or willful blindness?
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May 10, 2017 17:34
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Answer's in the thread title, pal.
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May 10, 2017 17:36
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Office Pig posted:Stupidity or willful blindness?
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May 10, 2017 17:51
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Because they don't want to actually fix anything
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May 10, 2017 17:52
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On the other hand, Dems are looking to grind the Senate to a virtual halt: https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/862313866222370818 https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/862322309603962881
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May 10, 2017 18:36
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Ze Pollack posted:thank you for explaining why anti-racists are the real racists, antifascists are the real fascists, and counterrevolutionaries are the real revolutionaries Lol that post isn't saying that at all. It's funny when liberals get so confused by being criticized from the left that they default to their anti-right arguments.
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May 10, 2017 18:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:On the other hand, Dems are looking to grind the Senate to a virtual halt: I'm hoping this is effective since gumming up the works does a pretty good job of screwing the administrations goals and as we've learned most voters probably don't care about weird Senate protocol enough to blame them for holding things up anymore t han they could be blamed for doing nothing by Republican media.
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May 10, 2017 18:44
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rudatron posted:Its really weird how "white people are racist" has itself become a racial stereotype. Its particularly egregious when you start comparing it to racism in other countries. When we talk about racism in countries like China, or the Middle East, or whatever, the cause is always (correctly) seen as relating to education or development or whatever. Yet, when talking about it in the white community, its assumed to be caused by a malevolent spirit, that can only ever be exorcised through the ritualistic blood sacrifice of appalachians. The only people who conflate whiteness with racism are racist fellow whites who tell me that speaking out against racism or calling them on their poo poo is "betraying" my whiteness. Or thinking that they can get away with saying racist poo poo just because I'm white and supposed to be on "their" team. It's actually quite comforting to make their world a little smaller. Yanno, the way they do to minorities. See, I'm nor actually bothered by any stereotype about "all white people being racist" because, although I have certainly benefitted all my life from being white, I don't actively try to make things worse minorities, socially or politically, so I just assume anyone saying that isn't talking about me. It's called critical thinking and comes in pretty handy. Try it sometime!
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May 10, 2017 18:50
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Republicans saying that Obama won't nominate a fine moderate voice like Merrick Garland before deciding to shirk their constitutional duty? Better not say anything, don't want to effect our polls when we have a slam dunk victory on our hands. Nothingburger red-baiting over Russia that literally nobody outside of the most hardcore establishment dems care about? We need to make some real noise about this, it's clearly our way to victory!
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May 10, 2017 19:02
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peter banana posted:The only people who conflate whiteness with racism are racist fellow whites who tell me that speaking out against racism or calling them on their poo poo is "betraying" my whiteness. Or thinking that they can get away with saying racist poo poo just because I'm white and supposed to be on "their" team. It's actually quite comforting to make their world a little smaller. Yanno, the way they do to minorities. This is some classic smug-style liberal individualism that misses the point entirely. What they're trying to get to the bottom of is the fact that as corporate liberalism has full-on adopted a class-less reading of identity politics (lean in feminism, rainbow doritos, etc) it's being used as an excuse to not confront how failed economic policy and a lack of answers from the people paid to have political opinions has created a horrible environment for racist ideals and beliefs to fester and grow. With the rise of Hillbilly Elegy and other damp, soggy rags dripping with horseshit, there's been an adoption of the ideal in liberalism that poor people deserve what's happening to them if they're white, and if they're poor people of color, they're erased from the conversation entirely. The "breaking up the banks won't solve racism!!!" meme that spread in liberal circles even after it was documented that these same financial institutions targeted racial minorities and wiped out 50% of black wealth in America is a fantastic example of this. Maybe you're not racist and you don't need to worry about it, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of poor people in this country (and people in general) do happen to be white. Writing off their fate entirely and pretending like everything's great after 8 years of Obama's policy only creating jobs in retail and service industries which provide no career or stability creates an opening for horrible racists like Beck, Hannity, Trump, etc. to spread huckster gospel - yes, you do have a problem and it's the fault of these people, and I'm going to do something about it as President will be more successful than "everything's already great, and I'm going to sell you that on a hat for $25." Over half this country is one crisis away from poverty, with less than $1,000 on hand. All the while, the rich have gotten richer, and the financial criminals responsible for this economic downturn faced no consequences and got a blank check to give themselves bonuses with off the taxpayer dollar. That was all under Obama, this is his legacy. Voter turnout hit a 20 year low this past election. They watched two ultra-rich idiots without a care in the world for their problems ramble on and on in increasingly embarrassing squabbles, and now a reality game show rapist is President. Democratic policy has to directly address the needs of the poor and wield public power again before they ever trust the will of private industry tax cheat corporate welfare queens ever again. Even now, Obama is shrugging off the Republicans' destructive enviromental policy because "the private sector already decided," because he has the wealth to comfortably wingsurf away into the sunset with his billionaire CEO friends as the last public housing buildings in Manhattan drown under the rising tides. Racism has always been in America's blood. In economic despair, the parasite rears it's head and grows larger and stronger. A responsible, proactive, non-reactionary Democrat would treat the infection at it's source. Chattel slavery in America was so that the white man could profit off the labor and toil of the black man. The terrorist group known as the KKK waged a guerilla war to end Reconstruction because they could not accept sharing power with the black American, given their 40 acres and a mule to make a living and a wealth for themselves. The economy has always been intertwined with racism since before this nation's inception, and to try and separate the two is willful ignorance nearly on the level with hate speech.
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May 10, 2017 19:28
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Ze Pollack posted:thank you for explaining why anti-racists are the real racists, antifascists are the real fascists, and counterrevolutionaries are the real revolutionaries Good God. Do I need to mail you a jump to conclusions mat? And people wonder why our system is so loving broken. People even on the left, can not actually discuss anything without telling "Racist!!! Cultural appropriater! LITERALLY HITLER!" Racism is on the rise globally btw. gently caress the only country where people who are actually discriminated racially against and seem to give a gently caress is the US. Minorities in most other countries gave up on being treated equally by their societies long ago, and only small minority groups give enough of a gently caress to keep going for it. Like I said earlier, what is the point of being an antifascist or a antiracist if you lose elections? gently caress, what's the point of being one if you lose a war? You seem to misunderstand the arguement. It's not a arguement against antiracism or antifascism. It's an arguement against failing strategies. If you have strategies and politicians and parties that are on a scale of 1-10 an 8 or a 9 anti-racist or antifascist and they win nothing...but a strategy or a party that is a 6 or 7 or even 5 does win...when they face a party that in terms of being racist and fascist is a 8 or 9, then what use is said party or strategy that is 8 or 9 on the scale left wise? I think there are some strategies and policies on that 8 or 9 scale that have needlessly alienated previous allies and turned a important voting core of the population against the Democratic party It doesn't matter how evil you may think those people are. Just like it didn't matter how evil southern white Americans were who fought against Nazi Germany in world war 2. Without them we would of lost the war. And without those voters you can't loving win a election. And the worst part is the people who seem to follow and promote this strategy are almost universally athiests. You aren't going to a better place when you fail and the Nazis take over. All your struggle is pointless. If you fail and bring about, due to your failures, something worse on everyone in this country, you are just as responsible for those failures as the people who enact that horrible fascism. This goes for Hillary Clinton in as much as it goes for Bernie Sanders. This isn't some zero sum game. Everything that is happening now is just as much Clinton's fault for being a feckless leader as it is Trump's fault. Just as much the fault of Democrats for having no back bone as it is Republicans for having no soul. Leadership is a great responsibility because of this: even in your failures you are responsible for the lives of other. Poor welding didn't cause the deep sea horizon to set on fire, excessive oil pressure and methane pockets did. But the failure to account for that makes the leaders of BP who decided not to prepare for that morally responsible for the death of the men involved. Just as not properly preparing the Challenger shuttle before lift off was not what caused it to explode, friction in the atmosphere did. But the decision of the leaders at NASA who did not make the right decisions in the case made them morally responsible for the death of that crew.
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May 10, 2017 19:31
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Call Me Charlie posted:Nothingburger red-baiting over Russia that literally nobody outside of the most hardcore establishment dems care about? You're going to have to back this claim up, because it is absolutely not a given right now. While this is all true, they absolutely must not talk about Russia to the exclusion of economic matters. They still need to fix what's fatally flawed with the party; they can talk about Trump's shady connections with the Kremlin, but they can't afford to let Russia be a distraction. Majorian fucked around with this message at 20:03 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 20:00
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Majorian posted:You're going to have to back this claim up, because it is absolutely not a given right now. Nah, the burden of proof is on you to prove that anybody outside of establishment outlets/fanatics cares about Russia. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 20:15 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 20:12
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Good God. Do I need to mail you a jump to conclusions mat? That pure, uncut Pragmatic Liberalism. Clearly, the failing of the Democratic Party must have been that it was too strongly against racism and/or fascism. If only they'd been a little nicer to racists, they could have picked up a couple more of the suburban Republican vote, and safely consigned the filth of the irritatingly-minority-dense working class to the dustbin of history. Victory is the only thing that matters, and the only strategy that can bring us victory is to lean further right. Hillary Clinton demonstrated rather conclusively this strategy is a miserable failure of a non-starter, friend. quote:I think there are some strategies and policies on that 8 or 9 scale that have needlessly alienated previous allies and turned a important voting core of the population against the Democratic party https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/796229362643152896?lang=en
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May 10, 2017 20:13
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Call Me Charlie posted:Nah, the burden of proof is on you to prove that anybody outside of establishment outlets/fanatics cares about Russia. I haven't made a claim one way or another; I'm challenging your claim and asking you to back it up. Onus is on you, friend.
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May 10, 2017 20:24
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https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/862386897594851328
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May 10, 2017 20:27
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they going to actually do anything to back that one up, or are we still in the empty platitudes stage of this exercise
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May 10, 2017 20:28
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Ze Pollack posted:they going to actually do anything to back that one up, or are we still in the empty platitudes stage of this exercise I mean they don't have the votes to stop a nomination so it's an empty threat in the first place even if they were 100% unified as a caucus
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May 10, 2017 20:34
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Majorian posted:I haven't made a claim one way or another; I'm challenging your claim and asking you to back it up. Onus is on you, friend. Let's see...only establishment outlets/fanatics are talking about it and even those people on here go 'well, it's not a nothingburger because it got Mike Flynn to resign so clearly it has legs to hurt Trump's administration' If you think otherwise, present your case.
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May 10, 2017 20:45
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Ze Pollack posted:That pure, uncut Pragmatic Liberalism. Clearly, the failing of the Democratic Party must have been that it was too strongly against racism and/or fascism. If only they'd been a little nicer to racists, they could have picked up a couple more of the suburban Republican vote, and safely consigned the filth of the irritatingly-minority-dense working class to the dustbin of history. Victory is the only thing that matters, and the only strategy that can bring us victory is to lean further right. Which Hillary? The one that called a bunch of people deplorables?
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May 10, 2017 20:48
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Which Hillary? The one that called a bunch of people deplorables? Yup. Campaigning firmly on how Pragmatic Liberalism was the sensible, mature, compromise position between the outlandish people saying 15$/hr was good and the ones saying 'the Mexicans are raping your children.' That you would have preferred she lean further to the right in the name of pandering even more to suburban republicans is unsurprising, but kind of a poor foundation on which to build a political strategy when your chief problem was your base declining to show up on your behalf.
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May 10, 2017 20:57
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Ze Pollack posted:Yup. Campaigning firmly on how Pragmatic Liberalism was the sensible, mature, compromise position between the outlandish people saying 15$/hr was good and the ones saying 'the Mexicans are raping your children.' Do you truly think running on $15 wage is a winning strategy?
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May 10, 2017 21:02
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Call Me Charlie posted:Let's see...only establishment outlets/fanatics are talking about it and even those people on here go 'well, it's not a nothingburger because it got Mike Flynn to resign so clearly it has legs to hurt Trump's administration' Well, it turns out, they do seem to care actually. All available evidence makes it pretty clear that they want Trump investigated.
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May 10, 2017 21:12
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Sometimes you have to be a bigot to fight bigger bigots.
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May 10, 2017 21:18
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Do you truly think running on $15 wage is a winning strategy? Most popular politician in America today argues it, and I'm inclined to agree with him. Turns out there's more working class voters who'd like a raise than there are suburban republicans, who knew.
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May 10, 2017 21:23
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Ze Pollack posted:Victory is the only thing that matters If this were true, Hillary would have capped points instead of running up her KD in California and New York. Dems talking about "how they won the popular vote" are like pubbies who say they had a great KD... except they were playing Domination, lost the game 200-102, and their one capture score is the point on the side of the map they started on. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 21:27 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 21:25
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Mister Facetious posted:If this were true, Hillary would have capped points instead of running up her KD in California and New York. Yeah, she was under the impression that she had the election in the bag and was trying to insure herself against any kind of loses-popular-but-gets-the-electoral situation. File, once more, under "the Clinton campaign had no connection whatsoever with reality."
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May 10, 2017 21:27
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Call Me Charlie posted:Let's see...only establishment outlets/fanatics are talking about it and even those people on here go 'well, it's not a nothingburger because it got Mike Flynn to resign so clearly it has legs to hurt Trump's administration' You made a positive claim that only establishment fanatics care about the Russia stuff. As much as I hate to admit it, the Russia stuff is probably the biggest talking point among mainstream liberals right now. A good example is that study showing how like 60% of Maddow's segments were about it. My parents both voted for Bernie Sanders and they have talked more about the Russia thing than anything else. edit: Majorian also seems to have posted a link.
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May 10, 2017 22:49
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Ze Pollack posted:Yup. Campaigning firmly on how Pragmatic Liberalism was the sensible, mature, compromise position between the outlandish people saying 15$/hr was good and the ones saying 'the Mexicans are raping your children.' lmao because these two things are equal in any way shape or form
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May 10, 2017 22:56
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lmao because these two things are equal in any way shape or form Telling the rich they might have to be slightly less rich is wealthspreading
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May 10, 2017 23:02
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Ytlaya posted:My parents both voted for Bernie Sanders and they have talked more about the Russia thing than anything else. Yeah, so have mine, and they keep talking about how everything just feels like it's a repeat of Watergate. I think a lot of Boomers are hearing the same echoes, and it's certainly not improving their opinions of Trump. e: Also, crossposting from Trump Admin thread: https://twitter.com/goldengateblond/status/862393059501146113 
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May 10, 2017 23:08
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Do you truly think running on $15 wage is a winning strategy?
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May 10, 2017 23:15
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