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The cop should've used a utility knife to take him down. He'd be alive and unharmed today!
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May 12, 2017 01:42
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silicone thrills posted:Oh look, king county cops being dick bags yet again. At least this one got fired but as the article notes - he'd already had many compliants. It literally took poisoning the water of the homeless to get this poo poo head off the force. How's your Police Union? Down here he'd be back on patrol next week.
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May 12, 2017 01:53
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xrunner posted:displayed a UTILITY KNIFE anthonypants posted:I want you to really think about the following questions: Yes Yes Yes No No No No Yes No No I'll ask: Is it justifiable for someone to defend themselves in a situation where they are in immediate danger?
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May 12, 2017 02:00
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Steve Jorbs posted:You seem fixated on downplaying the potential hazard of [just] a utility knife. Have you ever used one? What are your feelings on #2 screwdrivers? What is immediate danger? Is it the same for a civilian as it is for a police officer? Would you be okay with a police officer shooting a man holding a #2 screwdriver? Should the standard different than a panicked civilian? What standard do you hold police officers to? Are they supposed to target and eliminate all threats? Do they have a duty to evaluate a threat and attempt to deescalate a situation, defaulting to the least deadly option if at all possible? Police default immediately to deadly force because they're trained to default immediately to deadly force. There are consultants that come in and tell them that they don't stand a chance against a desperate and deadly criminal underclass who wants nothing more than to go on an action movie/video game style rampage. The public seems to excuse this behavior. I'll tell you what. I expect the police to respond differently than I expect a panicked civilian to respond. I hold them to a much higher standard when it comes to evaluating threats. I also hold them to a much higher standard as to what actually is a threat. You put on that badge and swear that oath to serve and protect and talk a big game about how you're willing to lay your life down to defend the community, but the instant the tiniest threat pops up you unload the chamber in your service pistol. Sorry. Unacceptable. I'd call an officer a hero if he put himself in harm's way to save a civilian being attacked on the street. Similarly, I'd call an officer a hero if he put himself in harms way to talk down an individual having a mental health crisis who might be a danger to himself or the community. I'd call an officer a coward if he gunned down an individual having a mental health crisis because he was a little bit worried that individual might harm him. Sorry. It's his job to go into danger. I'm not saying I expect an officer to rush into gunfire to execute a physical take-down of an active shooter. But I expect a lot more when the officer is dealing with somebody holding a small knife. HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 02:16 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 02:11
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xrunner posted:They're the ones who specified it was a "utility knife" after nearly 24 hours to get their statement ready. Should we not take them at their word that it was a utility knife (aka a box cutter)? But he was a drug user too! The media is definitely reporting that because it's important that we know what a loving scumbag this guy was. The guy was running away when the cop murdered him, why is there any discussion at all about whether or not the cop was in immediate danger? The cop loving chased the guy and then when the pig got close he got scared and killed him. Even if the guy did "brandish" a utility knife, what about the situation makes it ok to murder him? Piece of poo poo cop chased someone and then murdered them because they were non-compliant.
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May 12, 2017 02:20
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xrunner posted:How's your Police Union? Down here he'd be back on patrol next week. Hit or miss. We've been able to get rid of some lovely cops. Like the one who arrested a man for walking across the street using a golf club as a cane. I know if you followed the union's Facebook page, you'd see some incredibly racist memes there.
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May 12, 2017 02:20
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xrunner posted:
I agree. I was just trying to be a little cheeky.
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May 12, 2017 02:40
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Steve Jorbs posted:I think you're reaching a bit on this. No. Accretionist posted:Literally yes. No. Steve Jorbs posted:You have a fair point on the language issue. I believe they would play up the situation as much as they could if the man was making a move against them. No. Accretionist posted:If their description of events is even close to accurate -- No. Accretionist posted:The cop should've used a utility knife to take him down. He'd be alive and unharmed today! No.
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May 12, 2017 02:46
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These loving cops need to wear loving body cams.
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May 12, 2017 02:49
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Shifty Nipples posted:No.
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May 12, 2017 02:59
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Accretionist posted:This framing applies to a safe and secure prisoner. You wouldn't execute me for having hit you with a baseball bat but you'd be justified in killing me to prevent being hit with a baseball bat. Steve Jorbs posted:Is it justifiable for someone to defend themselves in a situation where they are in immediate danger? that includes when the aggressor is a police officer ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh poo poo son you just got WRECKED
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May 12, 2017 03:02
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Steve Jorbs posted:For the bold no, are you disagreeing to the part where I agree that the cop probably escalated the situation beyond what was needed originally given the lack of descriptive language in the account or that a utility knife can be dangerous? it isn't dangerous if it's waaaay the gently caress over there in some dudes hand. Yes I realize how easily a blade like that can sever arteries but come on e; anthonypants posted:I disagree that it would be fair and reasonable for me to murder you with a gun just because you threatened me with a baseball bat. I also believe that police officers should be held to the same rational standard, and that any opposing argument must be made in ridiculously bad faith, because it presupposes that police officers are special snowflakes which must be protected above the lives of non-police, at all costs, to include breaking the laws which they are allegedly sworn to uphold. empty quote Shifty Nipples fucked around with this message at 03:10 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 03:08
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Shifty Nipples posted:it isn't dangerous if it's waaaay the gently caress over there in some dudes hand. Seriously. Why do people have such a hard time with "Brandishing is not the same thing as attacking with..." It's such a basic concept. Also this: anthonypants posted:Yes, an individual in imminent danger should be able to defend themselves. But, get this:
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May 12, 2017 03:11
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xrunner posted:Seriously. Why do people have such a hard time with "Brandishing is not the same thing as attacking with..." It's such a basic concept. I fart in your general direction *is shot*
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May 12, 2017 03:12
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anthonypants posted:I disagree that it would be fair and reasonable for me to murder you with a gun just because you threatened me with a baseball bat. I also believe that police officers should be held to the same rational standard, and that any opposing argument must be made in ridiculously bad faith, because it presupposes that police officers are special snowflakes which must be protected above the lives of non-police, at all costs, to include breaking the laws which they are allegedly sworn to uphold. I think the story just got updated with more details, and a few typos: http://katu.com/news/local/man-shot-killed-by-portland-police-officer-was-struggling-with-drug-addiction quote:Steve Alexander who lives nearby and witnessed it all said Johnson was crouching on the MAX tracks about 7 to 10 feet from the officer when he pulled out a knofe. xrunner posted:Seriously. Why do people have such a hard time with "Brandishing is not the same thing as attacking with..." It's such a basic concept. SeXTcube fucked around with this message at 03:20 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 03:16
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Steve Jorbs posted:I think it would be unreasonable to murder them if they made a verbal threat towards you, but if they picked up a baseball bat and postured threateningly towards you with it that is a completely different situation. I don't even think anybody's talked about tazers yet, but hey, did you know? There is a device called a "tazer", which in most circumstances, is a non-lethal takedown method available from a distance. As per Wikipedia, non-police tazers are limited to a distance of 15 feet, and police tazers can go farther.
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May 12, 2017 03:23
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Solidarity from Seattle.
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May 12, 2017 03:26
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Firefighters and paramedics are cool though, thanks guys.
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May 12, 2017 03:30
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Steve Jorbs posted:I think it would be unreasonable to murder them if they made a verbal threat towards you, but if they picked up a baseball bat and postured threateningly towards you with it that is a completely different situation. If the police officer had pulled out his gun first I would think that the man would have been justified in defending himself, but I don't think that being chased by an officer makes the officer an aggressor to the degree they need to be killed. Brandishing was a very bad choice of words on my part. The police statement actually uses "displayed a knife". Even then, waving a knife around is not the same thing as using a knife. Those are very different actions and the later is an escalation that doesn't necessarily flow from the former.
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May 12, 2017 03:30
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Shifty Nipples posted:Firefighters and paramedics are cool though, thanks guys.
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May 12, 2017 03:40
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anthonypants posted:that includes when the aggressor is a police officer 
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May 12, 2017 03:44
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anthonypants posted:Not ALL paramedics how am i supposed to know what you are talking about if you attach the img so i can't even reverse img search it 
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May 12, 2017 03:44
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Shifty Nipples posted:how am i supposed to know what you are talking about if you attach the img so i can't even reverse img search it
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May 12, 2017 04:15
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Every paramedic and EMT I've known have been the biggest pieces of poo poo. They do the job not because they're helping people, they do it because they like seeing people die. I've seen these pieces of poo poo take pictures of dead/dying people and send it to each other so that they can laugh about it. The excuse was "well, you have to laugh because otherwise it's too sad"... One of my old coworkers was an EMT and he used to tell stories about gruesome poo poo, as if anyone was asking for it.
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May 12, 2017 04:27
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An EMT I know is the best protest street medic I've ever met, and I would not hesitate to describe some of his work in that capacity as heroic and lifesaving. Maybe you just have a bad local sample you've drawn from?
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May 12, 2017 05:12
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Displaying a box cutter got him murdered by a cop. How can you loving be okay with this?
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May 12, 2017 05:26
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It's possible to defend yourself from potential threats without killing them. This is one of the foundations on which society is built.
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May 12, 2017 06:30
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can you imagine if folks killed police for brandishing their actual guns. because I can. and it's beautiful 
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May 12, 2017 06:54
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precious
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Yeah, shooting a man with a box cutter is an excuse for homicide. Honestly, I think Portland needs to do what Georgia (the country) did, fire all the police in waves and then rehire then with much stricter requirements especially regarding discharging their weapon. Also, we probably need a Mayor/City Council that isn't a PBA sock puppet and can actually push for real funding to address homelessness and mental health issues.
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May 12, 2017 08:03
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it is more appropriate for a police officer to take injury in the process of deescalating a situation than it is for one to commit murder in response to any potential threat. police should serve the public, not the other way around
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May 12, 2017 22:19
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ElCondemn posted:Every paramedic and EMT I've known have been the biggest pieces of poo poo. They do the job not because they're helping people, they do it because they like seeing people die. I've seen these pieces of poo poo take pictures of dead/dying people and send it to each other so that they can laugh about it. The excuse was "well, you have to laugh because otherwise it's too sad"... Yo considering what they deal with to collect a paycheck I'm willing to grant EMTs a wide loving berth when it comes to gallows humor.
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May 12, 2017 23:23
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Lazy_Liberal posted:can you imagine if folks killed police for brandishing their actual guns. because I can. and it's beautiful  Yeah because killing people is cool and good and I foresee no issues stemming from that.
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May 12, 2017 23:30
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Jack2142 posted:
not people. cops.
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May 12, 2017 23:32
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Venuz Patrol posted:not people. cops. Excellent double standard there.
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May 12, 2017 23:35
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Jack2142 posted:Excellent double standard there.
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May 12, 2017 23:52
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anthonypants posted:All cops are bastards. Okay
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May 12, 2017 23:59
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Jack2142 posted:Okay Glad to see you agree.
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May 13, 2017 00:22
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Having an issue with cops being shitheads on a constant basis is good and normal. Thinking cops are not literally people is hosed up and crazy.
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May 13, 2017 03:18
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Peachfart posted:Having an issue with cops being shitheads on a constant basis is good and normal. Thinking cops are not literally people is hosed up and crazy. hey here is a thought, maybe that was a post using hyperbole to express significant contempt for cops generally, and not a literal statement about if cops are automata or something
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May 13, 2017 03:28
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To be fair it was time to rein it in.
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May 13, 2017 04:01
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