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A really good generic Voyager episode is Blink of an Eye. Leans into Voyager's tendency towards the weird scenarios, too.
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May 12, 2017 08:24
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Ah yeah, that'd actually be my choice. Future's End is good if you want campy dumbness, Blink of an Eye is good if you want a more classical Trek experience.
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May 12, 2017 08:25
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My vote for best singular TOS episode to kind of encapsulate the entire thing is "The Devil in the Dark." Do a double bill with that and A Piece of the Action.
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May 12, 2017 08:26
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Nessus posted:My vote for best singular TOS episode to kind of encapsulate the entire thing is "The Devil in the Dark." Do a double bill with that and A Piece of the Action.  Finally, someone who agrees.
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May 12, 2017 08:34
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Don't get me wrong, City on the Edge of Forever is incredibly good. However I'd say that it suffers a little because it would not take too much for it to be a Twilight Zone episode, while "Devil" makes greater use of the Trek situation. Slightly different categories.
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May 12, 2017 08:37
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Devil in the Dark is a good encapsulation of TOS, but I'm also pretty partial towards Operation: Annihilate!. I can't really parse why, it's just a really solid "average" episode with good performances from McCoy and Spock and a memorable alien effect/design. Like Devil, it toes that line between campy TOS and serious TOS.
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May 12, 2017 08:50
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I just watched The Battle (the one where the Ferengi make Picard relive blowing up one of their ships) and it's the first actually good episode so far.
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May 12, 2017 09:40
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Nessus posted:My vote for best singular TOS episode to kind of encapsulate the entire thing is "The Devil in the Dark." Do a double bill with that and A Piece of the Action. Yes, these are my choices for TOS! So the answer to the question depends on if I think the person would prefer the Trek-y aspects of a series or the more goofy elements. TOS: (Trekiest) The Devil in the Dark - Great example of Trek's message of respect for all life. TOS: (Goofy) A Piece of the Action - Perfect example of 'Cowboy Planet' and a fun episode TNG (Trekiest) First Contact (episode) - A great example of Trek at it Trekiest, using the sci-fi premise and the better Prime Directive episode. Measure of a Man is fantastic, but it's really talky and I wouldn't start someone with that one. First Contact has the benefit of also being an on-location shoot. TNG (Goofy) A Fistful of Datas - Holodeck episode! Cowboy planet! The near-mythical 'good Troi episode'! Everyone obviously having a good time! DS9 (DS9iest) Duet - Perfect introduction to DS9, arguably the strongest episode in the first season. DS9 (Goofy) - The House of Quark - Fun episode, lighthearted, Armin Shimerman is a delight to watch. Almost weht with Little Green Men, but it doesn't really use many of the Trek elements of Trek. VOY (Trekiest) The Thaw - One of the best early season Voyager episodes. Almost went with Tuvix because it tackles a really thorny/odd ethical dilemma and resolves it in the most Voyager way possible. VOY (Goofy) Bride of Chaotica! - Look, the cast seem to be enjoying themselves! ENT (Trekiest) The Andorian Incident - Shran! ENT (Goofy) Acquisition - It's pretty much the only 'goofy' episode that isn't overwhelmed by the awfulness of Enterprise. TAS (Both) The Magicks of Megas-Tu - It's both the goofiest (They meet the Devil himself, Spock fonds magic quite logical) and Trekiest (they defend the Devil himself in court) episode of the animated series.
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May 12, 2017 09:40
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The Magicks of Megas-Tu is obviously the best, and most canon, TAS episode, but I think The Soft Weapon also stands up well.
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May 12, 2017 10:08
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Astroman posted:The 20th Century Guys B Plot was interesting too, because young me was quite enamored of the idea of jumping into cryosleep and waking up in Star Trek, so it was fun to put yourself in their shoes and see people from your time interacting with The Future. 13-year-old me watching it felt sort of disconnected from both sides of the situation. As we all know, our 24th Century friends were all pretty odd in the first season anyway. Inconsistent, lurching from super-passionate to kind of bland. I wasn't sold on TNG at this point at all. Then they defrosted 2 guys who represented a 20th Century that I wasn't living in (stockbrokers and washed-up singers didn't resonate with me), and a woman who, obviously as a woman, couldn't possibly have been anything other than a homemaker. Clare Raymond's story could have actually been really interesting, a way to really explore what people do with their time in the 24th Century, and how someone who spent her life looking after her family could find a new direction, but all she really needed to see was a family tree. So it was sort of "people I don't get" meeting "people I don't get". I know cryonics was becoming a thing in the late 80s, but did they really think we'd be sending dead people into space a scant few years after the episode aired? Also, why were we sending dead people into space? I get that it probably helped them "survive" WWIII, but space can't have seemed like a particularly safe option. Equipment failure would seem more likely than perishing in a nuclear war. As much as you can perish when you're already dead. Also, having not seen much TOS until the mid 90s, the return of the Romulans was less impactful to me. Turning them into a big mystery seemed like a waste, as well. If the Romulans hadn't gone quiet for 80 years, would the first season have been played out any different? Did those 80 years play into anything that happened post-season 1? Also also, I remember being frustrated about the missing colonies. Back when TV was either rigidly episodic or full-on serial, I didn't know what to make of it. We were essentially at the mercy of writers who may or may not decide to revisit that plot point. They were basically dangling a much bigger universe in front of my nose, but week after week afterwards it was the same old parade of inconsequential short stories. By the time of Q-Who, I'd forgotten it was even mentioned and didn't make the connection at all.
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May 12, 2017 12:14
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The Drumhead is one of the most prescient episodes of TNG and even more relevant today. It's a talky episode, but I'm actually struggling to think of any single episode of Star Trek made that has a more important message right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJN08uqt70 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXTohdKcm4
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May 12, 2017 14:03
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Duet is a fantastic episode (one of the best in the history of the entire franchise) but it's a horrible choice to sell DS9 in just one episode. Part of what makes it great is that it's not typical, it stands alone and isn't really like any other episode of DS9 ever. If I had to pick one, that really got the feel of DS9 across, I'd pick Civil Defense.
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May 12, 2017 16:16
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Dirty posted:Also, why were we sending dead people into space? I get that it probably helped them "survive" WWIII, but space can't have seemed like a particularly safe option. Equipment failure would seem more likely than perishing in a nuclear war. As much as you can perish when you're already dead. You don't have to worry about your coolant or radiator system failing or the body rotting, if you're in the right orbit. You do the initial freeze on Earth, active systems keep everything frozen during insertion, then power everything down once you enter an orbit designed to not heat the satellite. Let the cold soak do the rest. Plus, in a sterilized spacecraft, you don't have to worry about poor containment leading to contamination of the body. It's almost fully passive and extremely long term, if you want that. Of course, it probably does not work, but if you want space mummies, that's your best bet.
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May 12, 2017 16:44
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Did they add scenes to the remastered version of All Good Things? I'm watching it and I don't remember some of these. Like there was just one with old Q talking to Picard on the Pasteur.
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May 12, 2017 17:54
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I was reading the Guardians of the Galaxy 2 thread and someone mentioned in reference to Mantis how empath characters are always female in way to play up gender stereotypes and such and I though immediately about Trek. Do we ever meet any male Betazed?
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May 12, 2017 18:31
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Grand Fromage posted:Did they add scenes to the remastered version of All Good Things? I'm watching it and I don't remember some of these. Like there was just one with old Q talking to Picard on the Pasteur. I want to say that's down to the differences between 90 minute cut of the episode and the 2 x 45 minute cut. It's happened with some other two parters too. On a related note BBC America are subtly trimming Voyager episodes too.
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May 12, 2017 18:31
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remusclaw posted:I was reading the Guardians of the Galaxy 2 thread and someone mentioned in reference to Mantis how empath characters are always female in way to play up gender stereotypes and such and I though immediately about Trek. Do we ever meet any male Betazed? There's one in the "one moon circles the other" episode
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May 12, 2017 18:34
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remusclaw posted:I was reading the Guardians of the Galaxy 2 thread and someone mentioned in reference to Mantis how empath characters are always female in way to play up gender stereotypes and such and I though immediately about Trek. Do we ever meet any male Betazed? Tam Elbrum.
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May 12, 2017 18:40
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remusclaw posted:Do we ever meet any male Betazed? Yeah. There's a few on TNG and one on Voyager.
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May 12, 2017 18:45
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What I'm hoping to find in Star Trek is an empath who uses their powers for evil. From what I've heard of Section 31 that'd be the perfect place for them.
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May 12, 2017 18:45
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remusclaw posted:I was reading the Guardians of the Galaxy 2 thread and someone mentioned in reference to Mantis how empath characters are always female in way to play up gender stereotypes and such and I though immediately about Trek. Do we ever meet any male Betazed? Also in Voyager the psychopathic murderer named Lon Suder is a Betazoid.
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May 12, 2017 18:45
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Trickjaw posted:Tam Elbrum. skasion posted:There's one in the "one moon circles the other" episode I kind of figured I had missed something. Of course, only Deanna is an empath, all the full Betazed are telepaths aren't they?
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May 12, 2017 18:46
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vermin posted:What I'm hoping to find in Star Trek is an empath who uses their powers for evil. From what I've heard of Section 31 that'd be the perfect place for them. Troi only gets mind-raped in the course of TNG like 30 times or something
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May 12, 2017 18:47
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remusclaw posted:I kind of figured I had missed something. Of course, only Deanna is an empath, all the full Betazed are telepaths aren't they? There's that one guy in the Barzan wormhole episode who's even less Betazoid than she is and can only sense vague impressions and intuitions, but still uses it to get a leg up in negotiations and such.
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May 12, 2017 18:53
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J33uk posted:I want to say that's down to the differences between 90 minute cut of the episode and the 2 x 45 minute cut. It's happened with some other two parters too. On a related note BBC America are subtly trimming Voyager episodes too. Yeah, All Good Things... got absolutely butchered in the syndication cut. For a while, Netflix only had the syndicated version.
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May 12, 2017 19:22
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vermin posted:What I'm hoping to find in Star Trek is an empath who uses their powers for evil. From what I've heard of Section 31 that'd be the perfect place for them. Section 31 wouldn't recruit someone with such a lovely superpower.
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May 13, 2017 02:18
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If someone wanted to sell me on TNG with a single episode, I would be looking for something fascinating and mysterious that works completely as a stand alone, like an episode of Black Mirror or Twilight Zone. You could probably win me over with Cause and Effect, even if it doesn't entirely capture the essence of the series as a whole. I've also always thought that Disaster would be a decent introduction to the show. You don't need to know anything going in, and it's a pretty fun episode that gives the entire cast something to do. Bucswabe fucked around with this message at 03:04 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 02:56
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Starship Mine could be a fun place to start for fans of action movies and it sets up how Picard tends to be portrayed later on, if that matters. Ensign Ro might also work since it's one of the few episodes that introduces a new recurring character who could function as an audience surrogate for new viewers. It's also one of only two or three episodes necessary to jump right into Deep Space Nine.
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May 13, 2017 05:22
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I'm still watching my way through TNG for the first time and here are my thoughts on the most recent episodes. Hide and Q: The idea of tempting someone with omnipotence was great but the writing was so heavy-handed. Very "tell don't show." The threat to Yar just kind of fizzled out without really feeling resolved (even though Picard's line about a new rule that officers could cry on the bridge was one of the only good pieces of writing from the episode). And it was weird how Data thought the French aliens were ineffably horrific in appearance when they were just lumpy cavemen who never felt like a real threat because of the bad choreography. Haven: The scene with the mute valet alien playing the gong was the first time I've laughed at the show so far. Not because of any dialogue, but because the actors' reactions to the grating sound was so real and when Deanna threw it to the ground and it made the same noise when it broke lol. On the other hand, the scene where Wyatt (Deanna's fiance) goes onto the ship of the aliens who were looking him fell flat. Maybe even worse than flat, like the floor went out from under it. It was supposed to be this big emotional thing about a guy completely changing his entire future for true love but the way all the Tellarians were just standing their awkwardly made it seem like it was supposed to be foreboding or like something was "off." But nope. The aliens were sincere, the only thing off was the direction. Edit: Oh and also the love triangle between Riker, Troi and her fiance was incredibly undeveloped. There was no real conflict or resolution. It was just kind of half-there. Jewel Repetition fucked around with this message at 05:41 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 05:34
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What is the protocol for astronauts if one of them were to die while in space? Jettisoned into deep space in a torpedo-looking bag seems to be an option. No bagpipe music, however.
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May 13, 2017 09:24
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I never liked Troi in TNG and I always thought that the biggest reason I didn't like her character was because I didn't like Sirtis. But I just watched some random comic con panel from a few years ago with the TNG cast, and I thought Sirtis was the most likable and funniest person there. Odd.
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May 13, 2017 10:01
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Coq au Nandos posted:Section 31 wouldn't recruit someone with such a lovely superpower. Her ability would be incredibly useful in a harder setting. With truly alien aliens instead of a galaxy of mostly foreheads-of-the-week, someone who can shortcut through the social/cultural/biological differences in emotions and their expressions to understand how a member of another species is processing a dialogue under the surface would be pure gold in dozens of scenarios. E: really she'd even be fine as it was if they didn't just have her stating the obvious all the drat time. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 10:29 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 10:25
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The Dennis System posted:I never liked Troi in TNG and I always thought that the biggest reason I didn't like her character was because I didn't like Sirtis. But I just watched some random comic con panel from a few years ago with the TNG cast, and I thought Sirtis was the most likable and funniest person there. Odd. Sirtis is great, and she's had a small comeback in recent years as bit parts in B movies and the occasional bigger thing. She's a good actress (or is now), but as various sources, including just the show itself show, Troi is written terribly, given awful situations and episodes to work with, and is mostly saved on occasion by weird bursts of "Hey let's treat Troi like a character and not an empathic pair of tits" but those are few and far between.
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May 13, 2017 12:20
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Orv posted:Sirtis is great, and she's had a small comeback in recent years as bit parts in B movies and the occasional bigger thing. She's a good actress (or is now), but as various sources, including just the show itself show, Troi is written terribly, given awful situations and episodes to work with, and is mostly saved on occasion by weird bursts of "Hey let's treat Troi like a character and not an empathic pair of tits" but those are few and far between. Yeah, I think you're right. It wasn't Sirtis's fault, the character was just poorly written. Plus, her empathic powers never seemed to be useful. She would occasionally "sense something", but it was never enough info to do anything with.
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May 13, 2017 12:40
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The Dennis System posted:Yeah, I think you're right. It wasn't Sirtis's fault, the character was just poorly written. Plus, her empathic powers never seemed to be useful. She would occasionally "sense something", but it was never enough info to do anything with. Even worse, a lot of the times her power detected things that were self-evident.  "I sense great antipathy from this ship, Captain."*1 second later, the ship opens fire*
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May 13, 2017 13:30
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Empathy is a lovely superpower to write drama around, it deflates tension and removes the possibility of misunderstandings. They either had to forget Troi's powers existed, write her as a dumbass so her powers would work but she wouldn't do poo poo about it, make her completely irrelevant to the plot (they did this a LOT), or throw in some technobabble about how her powers don't work on the foreheadians.
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May 13, 2017 13:36
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McSpanky posted:Her ability would be incredibly useful in a harder setting. With truly alien aliens instead of a galaxy of mostly foreheads-of-the-week, someone who can shortcut through the social/cultural/biological differences in emotions and their expressions to understand how a member of another species is processing a dialogue under the surface would be pure gold in dozens of scenarios. That would be cool and give her something actually useful to do.
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May 13, 2017 13:37
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I kind of feel the writers were a, worried about telepathy short-circuiting plots and b, determined not to just rehash the Vulcan mind meld as a plot device, that they overcompensated and made her powers basically useless. If I'd been doing it, I'd have de-emphasize her powers and just made her the expert on anthropology and culture. There's hints of it here and there, but they never really made her an expert in the same way as Data or Geordi are the engineering experts on the ship.
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May 13, 2017 13:38
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Angry Salami posted:I kind of feel the writers were a, worried about telepathy short-circuiting plots I'm sure and it's a totally valid worry, which is why they shouldn't have done it in the first place. In a rare instance of this, Voyager had the best Betazoid.
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May 13, 2017 13:42
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I guess in Roddenberry's original vision for the show, sensing emotion would be very useful because anyone who has even the slightest hint of emotion is obviously a villain. Plus she also had the same basic problem as Dax -- the show is really mostly written about humans and how they do things and react to things. When it comes to writing a truly alien main character, they don't usually do as well.
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