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tactics make my brain hurt I am just here for the explosions! 
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May 13, 2017 04:07
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Beer, you're doing gods work. Thanks! Mission is entered, going to test it out and finish the scenario. Got some scripts and such to add.
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May 13, 2017 04:08
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Yooper posted:Beer, you're doing gods work. Thanks! Now updated with ready times for various loadouts! My first suggestion when we have the chance is to consolidate the gently caress out of our fleet. 
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May 13, 2017 04:18
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80 Gripens and nothing else.
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May 13, 2017 04:19
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Crazycryodude posted:80 Gripens and nothing else. If F-22's didn't exist I would vote this.
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May 13, 2017 04:28
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And 1 flying car for VIP extractions.
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May 13, 2017 04:30
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Yooper posted:
Cool. This will be my last mission for a while. Still happy to record briefings for anyone who wants them!
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May 13, 2017 05:09
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OPERATION WE COULD HAVE JUST TAKEN THE $200 MILLION IN DIAMONDS AND LEFT
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May 13, 2017 05:17
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TildeATH posted:OPERATION WE COULD HAVE JUST TAKEN THE $200 MILLION IN DIAMONDS AND LEFT And not be involved in the First Economic War?
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May 13, 2017 05:20
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Night10194 posted:And not be involved in the First Economic War? OPERATION COUNTING YOUR MONEY ON A PILE OF DIAMONDS WATCHING THE FIRST ECONOMIC WAR ON TV IN THE COMFORT OF A BORDELLO IN THE ANTILLES
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May 13, 2017 05:23
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TildeATH posted:OPERATION COUNTING YOUR MONEY ON A PILE OF DIAMONDS WATCHING THE FIRST ECONOMIC WAR ON TV IN THE COMFORT OF A BORDELLO IN THE ANTILLES We're here to make history not watch it. 
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May 13, 2017 05:24
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That's assuming the dictator whose life and livelyhood we've threatened in the past would keep his word.
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May 13, 2017 05:28
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RandomPauI posted:That's assuming the dictator whose life and livelyhood we've threatened in the past would keep his word. It's also assuming that our investors wouldn't just take it all as profit. We're employees, not owners, remember.
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May 13, 2017 05:48
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The diamonds would have facilitated a decent stock buyback program, I think.
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May 13, 2017 06:06
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TildeATH posted:OPERATION COUNTING YOUR MONEY ON A PILE OF DIAMONDS WATCHING THE FIRST ECONOMIC WAR ON TV IN THE COMFORT OF A BORDELLO IN THE ANTILLES The mercenary fighting vehicle genre is not about people making wise business decisions with the intention to get rich. It is about groups of fuckups, idiots, murderers, traitors, people trying to forget the past, and other flawed folks getting together for an incredibly risky and stupid way to seek fame and fortune. If we wanted to be safe thieves we'd be investment bankers, not shooting people for a living.
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May 13, 2017 06:10
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Well it's time for the quiet period before the op launches, so Bringing A Rifle To A Knife Fight or long-range air-to-air missiles and you Obviously much ado has been made about the whole "F-22 situation" going on nearby. For the love of god let's not get into a shooting match with those because there's no way we'll trade favorably short of hoping that maybe they only have one and we can feed it SK60s until it runs out of ammo. But that doesn't mean that Raptors are invulnerable sky demons, and nor are they invisible like some kind of Star Trek cloaking device. Raptors are the pinnacle of Low-Observability technology, and you will note that that says "Low" and not "Non". Their fancy (and wildly toxic) paint, the specially designed hull, etc, are good at reducing the thing's radar signature to a rounding error. What this means is that while our radars can technically see them, they'll think they actually are looking at a gnat, or maybe a large dust mote. There's a couple things you can do to try to even the odds, including using a really, wildly, absurdly large radar that has enough resolution to spot them anyway (good luck finding one of these, and if we did it'd still be a build it and leave it there situation) or, less impractically, using infra-red or visual tracking, as it's a lot harder to hide those. And some other weirder stuff but that's for another effortpost. What this means is that the Raptor's plan isn't to just fly around mooning you while pooping missiles at you. It's got missiles that are long-ranged enough that while you can eventually find it, it will have already killed you before you succeed, and that then says nothing about actually hitting the thing. Our Meteors are possibly best-in-class, but the Raptor's the best in the world at not getting shot, so the odds are not in our favor. So, for future procurement possibilities, here's some longer-ranged missiles and what can mount them (that I think we can practically obtain). As usual I'm excluding hypotheticals, which sadly leaves out the disgusting glory of the AIM-152, and when multiple versions of an airframe are available I'm only linking the latest. AIM-120D AAMRAAM AMRAAMs have been around for a while; our Greek Phantoms have some old and mediocre ones. These are neither. They're the only thing in this list with a 2010s-era seeker, and at 75nm can match our Meteors. Curiously, they seem to have the weakest warhead. AAM-4B Kai Japan's best offering is pretty nasty at 75nm and a seeker from the 2000s. Of note are those F-2s - there's still two of those unaccounted for on Team Reddit. That said, Japan itself doesn't seem to hate us, so we might be able to get some of these somewhere, but we don't seem to have an arms dealer contact from that region of the world. AA-10 / R-27RE, R-27RE1, and R-27TE
AA-9 / R-33 and R-33S The MiG-31 is Russia's flagship interceptor, and missiles like this are why. It's a one-trick pony but it does that trick pretty drat well. This particular version can even do in-air refueling, an unusual point for Russian hardware. PL-15 China's got a pretty good entry here. 94nm range (an oddly specific number) and 2000s-era sensor quality. On the downside, well, China harbors a mild dislike for us. I'm going to go ahead and assume we are not going to ever get these. Of worrisome note is that seemingly all modern Chinese fighters can carry this, including the carrier-variant J-31s, and they outrange our Meteors. Bad news. AIM-54A Phoenix The United States' premier bomber-stopper missile, with a range of 100nm. Tomcats are pretty old, and assuming there are any left, they shouldn't be terribly expensive. The Iranian version has a semi-active seeker, somehow, which I didn't even know existed for this missile, so that's awful. On the plus side the Iranian ones are probably even cheaper (and they'd look great next to those Iranian Phantoms!). Phoenixes also do comical amounts of damage if they hit. On the downside, Phoenixes' sensors are pretty unimpressive - they're 50 years old and can probably be spoofed by a cellphone app by now. Note that the Iranian Tomcats can also mount HAWK missiles as air-to-air weapons, because it turns out that when nobody wants to sell you weapons you have to get creative. So can I get three cheers for supply commonality with our air defense artillery guys? No? Okay. AA-13 / R-37M This thing has a range of a staggering 160 nautical miles; more than twice what our Meteors can manage! Like the earlier MiG-31, this one has an IFR probe. On the downside, that Foxhound variant is probably gonna be crazy expensive and I'm not sure Russia is willing to part with any at all given how new it is. This is better than your other choice, which is the PAK-FA. Even Russia can't get those things to work yet (I'm actually kinda surprised the DB doesn't flag that one as hypothetical). In conclusion: if we want to play sky sniper, we're probably going to have to buy Russian, or, hilariously, Iranian. I swear I'm not deliberately aiming to include them in all of these. The Japanese one is also pretty good but being both modern and outside of our dealers' areas of operation those planes are probably incredibly expensive.
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May 13, 2017 06:25
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Dr. Snark posted:So what I'm hearing is that it would be some unholy fusion of Macross Plus, Armored Core 2, and Ace Combat 3. Do I have that right? I would pay real money to see that.
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May 13, 2017 07:08
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power crystals posted:Some silliness Why are you even mentioning the Alamo? A beam rider against an F-22 isn't going to do anything. Edit 1: Actually, I'm pretty sure none of those would do anything against an F-22, whether SARH or active terminal guidance. The radars on the active missiles wouldn't be able to detect the F-22 even if we know it's there and the SARH missiles will never have a lock from the launching aircraft. While I'm at it, I'm pretty sure all of that stuff is rocket powered. Rocket powered missiles suffer more of a penalty to their accuracy at long range compared to ramjet missiles like the Meteor. Edit 2: there is one missile that might be up to the job, depending on whether we can equip it on anything with an IRST, the MICA IR. I believe the range on it is about 45nm and with an infrared seeker, it should be able to track the Raptor. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 12:02 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 11:54
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Those options are less "here's how we kill one" and more "here's how we can do the same thing" by offering some background on how this stuff works (though since CMANO still has weirdly universal datalinks they'll get a lock easier than you might expect, but that's a little unfair to plan for). I don't really want to get into exactly what weapons can actually hit a Raptor because Yooper asked a while ago for us to avoid that stuff and my character has no reason to know that, though he should know about how well Gorgon Stare would work hence my earlier post on that. I'm just trying to show things we may want to buy and/or how well our weapons measure up to what our opponents (may) have. e: though I may need to look up how to tell something is classed as a beam rider. I can find ARH v SARH v IR easily enough but I haven't seen that detail yet, so I apologize for not mentioning it! e2: I probably should have noticed the max sensor range on the IR version of that thing is only 10nm, whoops. So clearly that is not how it gets a lock to start with power crystals fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 15:16
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In terms of in game statistics, how do the 5th gen fighters match up?
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May 13, 2017 15:30
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I think we're getting out of Angola at the right time, folks. If I was feeling suicidal I'd say that if we eventually get an opportunity to rake export Raptors on the ground and we still have the SK60s by then for some godforsaken reason, we should let them deliver the coup-de-grace and add another decal to them: Raptor Reapers. And if we'd voted for Don't Cut The Rope I would have been very disappointed since that'd be giving the PRC the perfect opportunity to begin dicking us over as hard as they'd like. As a few other goons have said, the PRC is all but begging for an opportunity to let them cut loose, and "Those crazy irresponsible mercs just attacked a sovereign nation - one in the UN, no less - without any provocation whatsoever" would be the perfect excuse to begin kicking our teeth in. Hell, in the worst case scenario iPMC and Tesla might have joined in to help eliminate some up-and-coming competition, all with an excellent justification. So good job not doing that! (not being sarcastic there) Night10194 posted:It's gonna be hilarious watching businessmen try to 'disrupt' the global military industry and gently caress up massively because they don't know poo poo about what they're doing. Amen. Soup Inspector fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 15:33
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Weissritter posted:In terms of in game statistics, how do the 5th gen fighters match up? 5th gen fighters are very similar in most categories to other recent, western planes. The big difference is that 5th gens are extremely hard to detect with radar, which is the primary way of detecting things in the air, and the only viable option for detection over long range.
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May 13, 2017 16:11
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Dance Officer posted:5th gen fighters are very similar in most categories to other recent, western planes. The big difference is that 5th gens are extremely hard to detect with radar, which is the primary way of detecting things in the air, and the only viable option for detection over long range. Yeah. In some ways they're actually less capable - they're limited to internal weapons bays because external pylons compromise their stealth, so you can get more/bigger weapons on a "4.5th" generation fighter like a Superhornet or a Rafale (the Gripen's kind of a tie because it's a relatively small/lightweight fighter to start with) as those bays aren't very big. CMANO actually does define at least one F-22 loadout that uses the external mounts but I have no idea why you'd ever use it. But the being really hard to find with radar thing is still by far the biggest point in their favor. That said I'll answer the question as stated because why not. 5th-generation is kind of a marketing thing, so I'm going to go with the Wikipedia list which consists of the F-22, F-35A/B/C, J-20, J-31 (and the carrier J-31), and the T-50/PAK-FA. The carrier J-31 is functionally identical to the land-based one except for the whole being able to operate on carriers thing so I'll roll them together. 5th gen consists of a couple bullet points. Supermanuverability (F-22, J-20, PAK-FA) and Supercruise (all of them, as far as I can tell, but the Raptor, J-20, and PAK-FA are the fastest) primarily along with some older but still valuable systems like helmet-mounted sights (all of them) and advanced bombsights (F-35A/B/C, J-31) that our Gripens do have. But what matters here is the signatures. For radar, the Raptor is the hardest to spot, regardless of band or aspect (direction), followed by in order F-35A/C/B (the B is slightly easier to find than the A or C), J-31, J-20, and PAK-FA. The difference between the Raptor and PAK-FA is pretty significant, too. I should note here that all of these aircraft have a negative radar signature, but our Gripens are still hanging out above zero. LO is a hell of a thing, and it's not a thing that we have, as powerful as Sweden is. For IR, hilariously, the Gripen has a smaller signature than any of the 5th gen fighters (I'd guess because it just has a less powerful engine, so less heat?). The Raptor's actually the second worst; total list is F-35C/A (difference is a rounding error), J-31, F-35B, F-22, and PAK-FA brings up the rear again. And visual, the Gripen wins again, probably due to being physically tiny. The list is actually almost exactly the same as for IR: F-35C/A (difference is a rounding error again), J-31, F-35B, F-22, and PAK-FA in last. I thought the F-35C has larger wings due to needing extra lift to take off from a carrier, so I'm somewhat confused why it's harder to spot. I could be wrong, it happens. So the thing is, visual and IR aren't very useful at long range. IRST pods can make a good show of tracking via IR, but they'll still get outranged by the weapons any of the above can carry. The Raptor's thus the hardest to deal with because its radar signature is absurdly small. The PAK-FA gets a consolation prize for being the worst in almost everything, but it's still damned hard to find and hit anyway; it's only bad relative to its incredibly good competition. We're also extra boned if any of these show up with an AEW aircraft that can do the searching for them, because they should all have weapons that can target off of datalinks to those aircraft, so we'd never even know they're there. Otherwise, they have the same weakness as every other radar-guided weapon - they have to turn on a radar to use it, and then we know they're there. We might not be able to actually do anything about it, but at least you'd know when to eject, I guess. If you want an IRST pod anyway, there's a Gripen upgrade that adds one, or some of the modern Potentially amusing side note: the Gripen is more agile than any F-35, though if we ever get into a situation where that matters things have gone catastrophically wrong for everybody involved. Oh and good job USMC managing to make the F-35B several notches worse than the A and C. power crystals fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 17:18
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I don't think the Rafale gets an IRST, the Typhoon and Gripen NG do.
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May 13, 2017 17:48
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Hypothetically, say we did detect a Raptor with our IRST at a decent range. Would we be able to actually fire a Meteor (or any other missile with an active radar seeker) and have it successfully track when it goes active, or would we have to wait until IR missile knife fighting range?
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May 13, 2017 17:54
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David Corbett posted:It's also assuming that our investors wouldn't just take it all as profit. We're employees, not owners, remember. Clearly this means seizing control of the Hired Goons is our first objective in the inevitable war on capitalism.
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May 13, 2017 17:55
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sparkmaster posted:Hypothetically, say we did detect a Raptor with our IRST at a decent range. Would we be able to actually fire a Meteor (or any other missile with an active radar seeker) and have it successfully track when it goes active, or would we have to wait until IR missile knife fighting range? We could launch it, but the seeker on the missile wouldn't be able to lock on to the target.
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May 13, 2017 17:57
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Quinntan posted:I don't think the Rafale gets an IRST, the Typhoon and Gripen NG do. Boy this isn't my day  I knew it was one of the two.
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May 13, 2017 18:03
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Is the PAK-FA actually in service somewhere? I thought it was sort of fading into vaporware status.
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May 13, 2017 18:31
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The Russians are buying 12 and the Indians have been in on-again off-again negotiations to make a two-seater version, I think at this point India is out at the moment.
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May 13, 2017 18:39
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Quinntan posted:We could launch it, but the seeker on the missile wouldn't be able to lock on to the target. So tactically we're at a massive disadvantage. Even if we do find them we have to close to within 15NM, while they can kite us whilst lofting AMRAMM D's at will. Technically the YF-23 is in a museum someplace. How much to buy that airframe and spruce it up? Yes, it's even in the database.
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May 13, 2017 18:50
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and that's assuming our IRIS-Ts actually hit it too.
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May 13, 2017 19:58
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sparkmaster posted:So tactically we're at a massive disadvantage. Even if we do find them we have to close to within 15NM, while they can kite us whilst lofting AMRAMM D's at will. I did a bit of a test on something like that. It didn't go well.
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May 13, 2017 20:59
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So how does LO vs LO BVR combat work?
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May 13, 2017 21:12
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Anta posted:So how does LO vs LO BVR combat work? Poorly
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May 13, 2017 21:26
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So we should buy more and more Gripens? MiG-31 just looks loving old. Even our sexy Phantoms look never. That said,
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May 13, 2017 22:48
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We need boats. Boats you can launch a plane from. Edit: Does anyone know how much money we actually have right now? paragon1 fucked around with this message at 22:53 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 22:51
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Somewhere in the 3-4 hundred million ballpark.
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May 13, 2017 22:55
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JcDent posted:So we should buy more and more Gripens? More or less. Or at least buy a couple of Es and upgrade most or all of the Cs to the E model. Gripens are just too cost effective to not use. That said, we should keep using Gripens to cover the most important things, such as effective CAP, and add older/weirder aircraft just for fun IMHO. The Soviet surplus deal a few ops back and the defecting Kfirs are a fun way to introduce more "exotic" aircraft. We DON'T want F-22s since we don't have and probably never will have the infrastructure to support them. Although it'd be "hilarious" if Goon F-22 pilots had to roll to save vs. suffocation every time they tried to take off. (This LP is going places. It's awesome!)
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May 13, 2017 23:09
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| # ? May 19, 2024 04:46 |
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221,000,000 or thereabouts. Aiming to run the mission in a few hours. It's not going to be as intense as the last one, but should still be entertaining.
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May 14, 2017 00:01
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