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I tried reading a le Guin book once but it did not work out between us. I couldn't picture any of the scenes from what she was describing, and I didn't really follow the plot. Fiction that tries to sell me on some philosophy tends to really turn me off, no matter if I agree with the author. The one exception being the Marion Bradley books which really convinced me of the idea that women are these magical wonderful creatures who would heal the world if it wasn't for those dastardly patriarchs.
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May 17, 2017 21:12
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OwlFancier posted:You might be right about an interesting setting but you have a stronger stomach than me if you can bear to read about her https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Always_Coming_Home
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May 17, 2017 21:25
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pidan posted:Fiction that tries to sell me on some philosophy tends to really turn me off, no matter if I agree with the author. The one exception being the Marion Bradley books which really convinced me of the idea that women are these magical wonderful creatures who would heal the world if it wasn't for those dastardly patriarchs. Maybe it's because I'm a dastardly patriarch, but one of my major regrets in life still is when I visited Strasbourg with a couple of friends back in 2007 or so and bought The Mists of Avalon instead of an 18th century French & Latin bible because I only had 10€ in cash with me and had to decide between the two. My thinking was that while the bible was rad, the Avalon books were something I already had heard about and would probably read more. Than I tried to read it and it was utter poo poo. Man, I wish I had gotten that bible 
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May 17, 2017 21:52
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HEY GAIL posted:since becoming orthodox i still stumble over some of the prayers in english We also recite the official Archdiocese version of the Creed, while the service book has its own unique one. A friend of mine gets thrown off at "for the remission of sins" vs. "for the forgiveness of sins." pidan posted:Fiction that tries to sell me on some philosophy tends to really turn me off, no matter if I agree with the author. The one exception being the Marion Bradley books which really convinced me of the idea that women are these magical wonderful creatures who would heal the world if it wasn't for those dastardly patriarchs.
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May 17, 2017 22:00
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HEY GAIL posted:i think it's interesting how everyone falls all over themselves to dismiss the work of women while accepting the same thing in the work of men, but i was referring to this book: I love that book! I'm a sucker for constructed histories and mythologies.
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May 17, 2017 22:05
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pidan posted:I tried reading a le Guin book once but it did not work out between us. I couldn't picture any of the scenes from what she was describing, and I didn't really follow the plot. You heard it hear first folks, women are in the same tier as hippogriphs.
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May 17, 2017 22:11
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Keromaru5 posted:I have some bad news about Marion Zimmer Bradley, then... Oh no, what happened? Re: hippogriffs, that Earth Mother feminism is honestly really attractive to me. I think this kind of attitude has fallen out of favor with feminism nowadays, but redefining femininity in a way that is not subordinate to men and in a positive way seems like a great idea. Sadly I have never met a second person who believes this, or else we could have formed a little coven and handfasted our way into the sunset. E: to keep this on topic, Catholic feminism sort of goes in this direction of valuing femininity, which I like. But their idea of feminine virtue is way too oriented towards looking modestly beautiful while making sensible meals for your husband and his children. I miss the witchy stuff. pidan fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:19
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pidan posted:Oh no, what happened? awful pedo
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May 17, 2017 22:23
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HEY GAIL posted:i think it's interesting how everyone falls all over themselves to dismiss the work of women while accepting the same thing in the work of men, but i was referring to this book: I was thinking Wizard of Earthsea which I couldn't finish because it became increasingly about the rather unlikeable main character being unpleasant to people around him. Also I was annoyed because the second book was becoming quite interesting until the aforementioned mopey oik wanders in, solves everything with his mary sue powers, and the much more appealing up-to-now protagonist abandons all her plans that have been building up over the course of the book and starts following him around and fawning over him which is just... urgh. If I was picking a female author writing books about weird religion-y fantasy that feel very grounded in a setting, I would probably suggest Trudi Canavan and the big doorstopper trilogy she wrote, starts with Voice of the Gods. The main character is a little bit flat unfortunately, possibly because the books jump around a lot and follow quite a few characters. The plot is interesting in that for a while it's basically the case that the gods actually exist and actually give people super magical powers and it has some interesting bits about how that affects the society of the setting. I think it's on the whole a little less good than her other trilogy that is more about social stratification and also wizards, but that one doesn't really have any religious elements though still does a really nice job of picking out the setting while also being shorter and, I think, having a stronger protagonist. If you want a dude author with probably some of my favorite fantasy protagonists I would really recommend Garth Nix and his Abhorsen trilogy which has some of the most likeable main characters of any series I've read, they have a surprising amount of individual agency and despite also being all basically fantasy royalty, the book really centers around them overcoming their internal conflicts to be able to start positively affecting the world around them. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:28
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HEY GAIL posted:hi Eh, I'm trying to take some inspiration from early Christian thought and the religious themes aren't a huge part of it - just establishing that some people, including the protagonist, have decided that after killing what they once worshiped as gods there still might be a real divinity out there somewhere. Don't know if I'll actually end up answering those questions in-setting, but the answer I came up with for internal consistency is that there is something analogous to God - but it's a deist's god, a craftsman who gives mankind freedom to do as it wishes for good or evil, and waits to see what people choose to do. An actual not-Jehovah wouldn't fit things as I'm writing them so far, except perhaps as a new faith beginning to make headways into the part of the world where the story takes place. The protagonists have more immediate problems to worry about than religion.
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May 17, 2017 23:05
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pidan posted:Oh no, what happened? you've read bad catholic feminism, then, what i would call more catholic anti-feminism. read rosemary radford-ruether. there's also a lesbian catholic feminist theologian whose name escapes me atm and for some reason google isn't helpful but anyway there's been good work done by catholic feminists, especially during the second wave, which is more in line with mainstream feminist theory but in a catholic way. there's probably also transfeminist catholic theologians but i can definitely say i was never one
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May 17, 2017 23:07
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Senju Kannon posted:lesbian catholic feminist theologian whose name escapes me atm Eve Tushnet? Honestly a total guess, I only know her because she spoke at my (catholic) highschool. e: on checking, she doesn't seem to be feminist in any real way, nvm. Heinous Anus fucked around with this message at 00:55 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 00:50
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no that's definitely not her, she had a weekly column in some religion website, either patheos or a patheos analog. and she often talked about women's ordination this is the second time i've thought of her and the second time i couldn't remember her name and the second time i couldn't discover it in five seconds of googling anyway while i'm in the thread there's a usccb position that doesn't require you to be catholic that i'm gonna try for, wish me luck. it's part time, too, so i can try to schedule japanese lessons around it if i'm lucky enough to get it. edit: senju, why do you want to work for the usccb if you think the catholic church's teachings on sexual morality are immoral and are no longer catholic? because their money's still green
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May 18, 2017 01:59
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There's a Unitarian Universalist church in my town that I've been keen to visit. Have been a staunch agnostic for the majority of my life, and this would be my first non-southern baptist church visit in about two years. From what I've read, they seem pretty gosh drat rational. Dogmas based on good intention + tolerance is definitely something I could get behind Anyone have any experience w/ unitarians? Is it really as dope as it sounds or am I just a lib-friend 
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May 18, 2017 02:15
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Apathy420 posted:There's a Unitarian Universalist church in my town that I've been keen to visit. Have been a staunch agnostic for the majority of my life, and this would be my first non-southern baptist church visit in about two years. Any UU church is going to be different from another, sometimes wildly so. From New Age religious syncretists to an ex-Catholic Religious Studies scholar who just hopes something is out there- you'll really find it all. I miss that ex-Catholic RS scholar, she was awesome.
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May 18, 2017 02:22
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Apathy420 posted:There's a Unitarian Universalist church in my town that I've been keen to visit. Have been a staunch agnostic for the majority of my life, and this would be my first non-southern baptist church visit in about two years. the seminary i went to was in a consortium with a unitarian universalist seminary and the only way i can describe it is "if hippies wanted to be religious despite hating religion"
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May 18, 2017 02:37
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Senju Kannon posted:no that's definitely not her, she had a weekly column in some religion website, either patheos or a patheos analog. and she often talked about women's ordination Are you thinking of Mary Daly? Isn't she a huge TERF?
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May 18, 2017 02:40
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i am most definitely NOT thinking of mary daly besides she's post-catholic anyway
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May 18, 2017 02:53
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if you said that to me in real life, "are you thinking of mary daly," i would give you the most disgusted look while i put my hand on my chest like i've been scandalized
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May 18, 2017 02:54
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Senju Kannon posted:read rosemary radford-ruether. I've only read Faith and Fratricide - is her other stuff any better? I remember that one being a collection of bad scholarship assembling itself around what was basically a good and well-meaning impulse. You know, the most depressing kind of book, because it makes you hate what you ostensibly support, if only because of sloppy presentation.
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May 18, 2017 03:05
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don't make me out myself as never having read rosemary radford-ruether, don't be that guy i just found asian and african women theologians more compelling than white american women theologians! i mean, and womanist theologians, but i couldn't name a womanist theologian if you put a gun to my head
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May 18, 2017 03:17
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Cythereal posted:Eh, I'm trying to take some inspiration from early Christian thought and the religious themes aren't a huge part of it - just establishing that some people, including the protagonist, have decided that after killing what they once worshiped as gods there still might be a real divinity out there somewhere. Don't know if I'll actually end up answering those questions in-setting, but the answer I came up with for internal consistency is that there is something analogous to God - but it's a deist's god, a craftsman who gives mankind freedom to do as it wishes for good or evil, and waits to see what people choose to do. you should really read Gene Wolfe then because it sounds like you're describing a Protestant version of The Book of the Long Sun
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May 18, 2017 04:09
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also Ursula LeGuin owns Ged is fine as a protagonist (although the first and third books are definitely stronger) but also maybe try reading some of her work that isn't YA
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May 18, 2017 04:10
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:also Ursula LeGuin owns yes. The Left Hand of Darkness is one of the great masterpieces of American sci-fi
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May 18, 2017 05:23
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Senju Kannon posted:the seminary i went to was in a consortium with a unitarian universalist seminary and the only way i can describe it is "if hippies wanted to be religious despite hating religion" This definitely does not characterize all of UU. The one in my town is super chill, but definitely doctrinally christian in the ways most sects are( Jesus was a divine figure, the most important doctrine is service to others, your sins are forgiven etc.).
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May 18, 2017 08:11
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:also Ursula LeGuin owns
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May 18, 2017 10:08
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:you should really read Gene Wolfe then because it sounds like you're describing a Protestant version of The Book of the Long Sun I'll give it a look, though the spiritual aspect is only a small part of the story.  The real meat of the story is a nation in a world of magic starting to enter an industrial revolution. The turn against the old gods is only one aspect of it.
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May 18, 2017 12:30
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Cythereal posted:I'll give it a look, though the spiritual aspect is only a small part of the story. I want to read your story, write it quick
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May 18, 2017 12:36
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pidan posted:I want to read your story, write it quick Hah, it's not likely I'll be done with it anytime soon. I have a three page prologue and a lot of outlining and exploratory scenes sketched to get a handle on characters and plot ideas. Also, gay female protagonist who's the eldest princess of this anti-magical kingdom and whose love interest is the crown princess of the kingdom's powerfully magical neighbor. The main moral is overcoming differences and turning them into strengths - the villain can't be defeated by magic or technology alone, and it will take both working in concert to prevail. And an ironclad bomb ketch is going to play a small but important role.
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May 18, 2017 12:45
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So, magical gays, hero journey -and- ironclad explosions? 
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May 18, 2017 12:49
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Tias posted:So, magical gays, hero journey -and- ironclad explosions? Only outlined the ironclad bit last night.  Originally introduced the HVMS Challenger and HVMS Cataclysm as a bit of flavor and fluff, a pair of experimental rocket-armed ironclads that are the Vellish Navy's latest effort to build warships that have a prayer against mage-crewed ships, but then decided rocketry itself was the answer to how to defeat the villain thanks to the unique advantages rockets have over cannons (and, for that matter, spells). How does an armor-piercing rocket grab you where the explosive payload itself has been enchanted for bigger booms and, more importantly, to rewind time at the point of impact so the rocket both pierces a dragon's hide and then restores the rocket's casing as it passes through so when the payload detonates you get all the delicious meat-shredding shrapnel?Still, at this point we're getting rather far afield from the thread, so if anyone's interested further send me a PM. Or maybe I should hop over to Creative Convention.
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May 18, 2017 15:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:also Ursula LeGuin owns I can't say anything about any of her other work but unless his function as a protagonist is to make you really dislike men (something I don't need help with) he is not a very good protagonist. I mean if that is the point then fair enough but it takes an awful lot of words to say that and it makes the books very difficult to read, and wastes other, more interesting characters on doing so, as well as extending him rather more sympathetic point of view than he deserves for being a big babby manchild with the consistent emotional maturity and range of an underage brick. It's genuinely one of the few book series I just couldn't bring myself to get through because I disliked the character too much, the other one being some... series with lots of books in it that kept departing from this interesting fantasy setting to go on at length about how all the main characters constantly wanted to have weird sex with each other. E: this series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Worlds_Cycle Do not recommend. Author is a big perv. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:19 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 19:11
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HopperUK posted:I love that book! I'm a sucker for constructed histories and mythologies.
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May 18, 2017 21:45
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anyway cyth, what you need is more pikes
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May 18, 2017 21:49
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HEY GAIL posted:anyway cyth, what you need is more pikes Velland is at the pike-and-shot stage of military development and is pioneering what's totally not tercio formations. However, due to geography they're more focused on the naval side of things.
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May 18, 2017 21:53
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Cythereal posted:Velland is at the pike-and-shot stage of military development and is pioneering what's totally not tercio formations. However, due to geography they're more focused on the naval side of things. 
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May 18, 2017 22:04
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HEY GAIL posted:so put pikes on a boat Just because Velland is loosely based on Renaissance-era Sweden does not mean they're repeating real-life Sweden's maritime misadventures.
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May 18, 2017 22:07
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Cythereal posted:Just because Velland is loosely based on Renaissance-era Sweden does not mean they're repeating real-life Sweden's maritime misadventures.  thing in...ever
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May 18, 2017 22:12
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Nice to see the Punic War approach of "find a way to transfer our land doctrine to boats" lived on.
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May 18, 2017 23:42
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OwlFancier posted:Nice to see the Punic War approach of "find a way to transfer our land doctrine to boats" lived on.
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May 19, 2017 01:15
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