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What are the worst cases of movies being stuffed because the Producers think they got a franchise on their hands? Terminator Genisys has four bad guys, two of whom are dead by the 45 minute mark, and the other two introduced at the half-way point. The film jumps through hoops just to bring old characters, now played by less talented actors, because the body of work of the Terminator that is actually good is restricted to the first two films. It's like a midget snake eating its own tail.
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May 19, 2017 10:40
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What are the worst cases of movies being stuffed because the Producers think they got a franchise on their hands? Terminator Genisys has four bad guys, two of whom are dead by the 45 minute mark, and the other two introduced at the half-way point. The film jumps through hoops just to bring old characters, now played by less talented actors, because the body of work of the Terminator that is actually good is restricted to the first two films. It's like a midget snake eating its own tail. 3 wasn't bad at all, It just had to follow up T2, which there was no way in hell it could possibly do.
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May 19, 2017 11:10
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MrJacobs posted:3 wasn't bad at all, It just had to follow up T2, which there was no way in hell it could possibly do. no
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May 19, 2017 11:16
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MrJacobs posted:3 wasn't bad at all, It just had to follow up T2, which there was no way in hell it could possibly do. T3's tone was all over the place. During its best moments it was little more than a Terminator spoof movie, and it should have settled for that.
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May 19, 2017 11:25
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Grendels Dad posted:Yeah I can see tha I use a bit of hyperbole, but in Man of Steel Pa Kent does a very good job of instilling a narcissistic messiah complex with attendant sociopathic amorality. It can be argued that this is what sets the stage for Jor-El's simulation to refine and focus this diffuse evil into true genocidal mania.
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May 19, 2017 11:35
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LeJackal posted:I use a bit of hyperbole, but in Man of Steel Pa Kent does a very good job of instilling a narcissistic messiah complex with attendant sociopathic amorality. It can be argued that this is what sets the stage for Jor-El's simulation to refine and focus this diffuse evil into true genocidal mania. Is it really narcissism when you can lift mountains and shoot lasers from your eyes?
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May 19, 2017 11:38
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MrJacobs posted:3 wasn't bad at all, It just had to follow up T2, which there was no way in hell it could possibly do. The twist at the end of 3 was legitimately clever, as was the idea of John Conner's life going completely off the rails because he's terrified of Skynet. Everything else....just a bit bleh.
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May 19, 2017 11:56
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Grendels Dad posted:Is it really narcissism when you can lift mountains and shoot lasers from your eyes? Belief that your physical might translates to a complete moral and intellectual superiority which elevates you beyond ethics and entitles you to rule as a barbaric god-king, then yes.
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May 19, 2017 11:57
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LeJackal posted:Belief that your physical might translates to a complete moral and intellectual superiority which elevates you beyond ethics and entitles you to rule as a barbaric god-king, then yes. Obligatory 
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May 19, 2017 12:29
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Everyone's bringing him jewels and riches and Green Lantern there brings him a burger.
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May 19, 2017 12:35
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Slime posted:Everyone's bringing him jewels and riches and Green Lantern there brings him a burger. It's a really good burger.
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May 19, 2017 12:42
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What are the worst cases of movies being stuffed because the Producers think they got a franchise on their hands? Terminator Genisys has four bad guys, two of whom are dead by the 45 minute mark, and the other two introduced at the half-way point. The film jumps through hoops just to bring old characters, now played by less talented actors, because the body of work of the Terminator that is actually good is restricted to the first two films. It's like a midget snake eating its own tail. Although it's not "overstuffed" (at least not that I can recall), something like Dracula Untold comes to mind, because that's a movie where I'm pretty sure the producers behind it cared more about it being the start of a franchise (the Universal Monsters Cinematic Universe, which they're now trying again with the Tom Cruise reboot of The Mummy) than it being a good movie by itself. They've actually gone out of their way to exclude it from said Universal Monsters Cinematic Universe. One thing that sort of irritates me is that the UMCU (if you like) is set in the present day. I think it would have set itself apart from the rest of the big action franchises if they'd gone with a period setting, maybe during the 1930s and 1940s when all those movies were originally made. You know, like the first two Brendan Fraser Mummy movies? I love the pulp stuff. 
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May 19, 2017 12:43
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Slime posted:Everyone's bringing him jewels and riches and Green Lantern there brings him a burger. A glowing burger.
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May 19, 2017 12:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:One thing that sort of irritates me is that the UMCU (if you like) is set in the present day. I think it would have set itself apart from the rest of the big action franchises if they'd gone with a period setting, maybe during the 1930s and 1940s when all those movies were originally made. You know, like the first two Brendan Fraser Mummy movies? I originally thought they were going to be, either turn of the century or Roaring 20s stuff. Can't wait to see Dr. Jekyll be a cutting edge geneticist or The Invisible Man to be an elite hacker or some other bullshit that completely defeats the point of the fantasy.
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May 19, 2017 12:49
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Doing that would probably make it too similar to known flop League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
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May 19, 2017 14:10
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It still irks me that Nemo was a kung-fu dude instead of his super power being he owns a machine-gun.
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May 19, 2017 14:17
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food court bailiff posted:It kind of annoyed me in GotG2 that Quill loses his light powers when he kills Ego. Isn't the whole reason he exists so that someone else can generate and control the light? If Peter's a Celestial, shouldn't he still be able to do that stuff? I figured that it was because Peter's only half-celestial. He can control the light, but not generate it - he still needs Ego, the source of the light, to use it. While his half-humanity means that he can live away from Ego, it also means that he's not immortal should he do so.
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May 19, 2017 14:19
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marshmallow creep posted:Doing that would probably make it too similar to known flop League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Sure, that movie was about 15 years ago and in the meantime there were two Sherlock Holmes movies that did pretty well by doing basically the same plot.
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May 19, 2017 14:58
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What are the worst cases of movies being stuffed because the Producers think they got a franchise on their hands? Terminator Genisys has four bad guys, two of whom are dead by the 45 minute mark, and the other two introduced at the half-way point. The film jumps through hoops just to bring old characters, now played by less talented actors, because the body of work of the Terminator that is actually good is restricted to the first two films. It's like a midget snake eating its own tail. I think the biggest problem was that once John Conner went evil, they didn't team up with evil terminators programmed only to kill John Conner to go kill John Conner. That would have been sillier but better.
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May 19, 2017 17:33
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Mu Zeta posted:I was really looking forward to the airport fight in CIvil War but it was so empty and felt like pretty much zero things at stake. It's hard to have high stakes when only one person wants to actually kill someone in the fight.
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May 19, 2017 18:23
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Wheat Loaf posted:Sure, that movie was about 15 years ago and in the meantime there were two Sherlock Holmes movies that did pretty well by doing basically the same plot. But they had RDJ.
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May 19, 2017 20:24
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Imagined posted:But it had all the emotional impact of a videogame cutscene. My pet theory on the DCEU is that it's one of those "What if?!?" tales where they just change one thing about the comic and see how it plays out. In this case it's: What if Jonathan Kent was a coward? He's still basically the same good man but above all is the sense that Clark must keep hidden and safe, which is kind of funny considering almost nothing can hurt Clark, and it influences all of his actions.
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May 19, 2017 23:56
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BuddyChrist posted:My pet theory on the DCEU is that it's one of those "What if?!?" tales where they just change one thing about the comic and see how it plays out. I know there was the Red Son comics, but have there been other What If places where Superman's pod landed? I'm thinking like American Revolution time, or Civil War, or gently caress, the loving Crusades or ancient Greece.
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May 20, 2017 02:12
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Cowslips Warren posted:I know there was the Red Son comics, but have there been other What If places where Superman's pod landed? I'm thinking like American Revolution time, or Civil War, or gently caress, the loving Crusades or ancient Greece. There is a godawful one where he lands in Britain
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May 20, 2017 07:50
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Cowslips Warren posted:I know there was the Red Son comics, but have there been other What If places where Superman's pod landed? I'm thinking like American Revolution time, or Civil War, or gently caress, the loving Crusades or ancient Greece. There was one where it landed behind the woods of Wayne manor, and Superman became Superbatman after watching a mugger kill his parents and he melted his face with heat vision. That was weird.
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May 20, 2017 08:10
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bobkatt013 posted:There is a godawful one where he lands in Britain Based on an idea by John Cleese, no less.
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May 20, 2017 10:00
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There's a Kim Newman short story called "Ubermensch!" where he lands in Bavaria before the First World War. It's pretty good.
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May 20, 2017 10:11
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Movies where they spend a great deal of time building up the enemy as some fierce+highly skilled/powerful thing, but when they finally face off it's just underwhelming and they are defeated quickly. Comic book movies are undoubtedly the worst offenders, but the movie that specifically irritated when I was watching it yesterday was Fury. The big bad SS gets a large portion of their battalion wiped out by a broken down stationary tank as they stupidly keep marching into the bullets and explosions. I mean, it was enjoyable watching the nazis get owned don't get me wrong, but in reality you would think a battle-hardened unit like that would have probably been would have just retreated and taken them out much easier than they eventually managed to. If they really acted like that, well no wonder they lost the war.
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May 20, 2017 10:57
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Not a movie, but there's an Iain M Banks scifi novel which spends a chunk of the book building up this antagonist as some kind of ultimate grimdark super-evil to the point where the reader is  , but then he arrives and gets wiped out pretty much straight away and it's hilarious.
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May 20, 2017 11:02
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What are the worst cases of movies being stuffed because the Producers think they got a franchise on their hands? Terminator Genisys has four bad guys, two of whom are dead by the 45 minute mark, and the other two introduced at the half-way point. The film jumps through hoops just to bring old characters, now played by less talented actors, because the body of work of the Terminator that is actually good is restricted to the first two films. It's like a midget snake eating its own tail. The newer Star Wars movies are guilty of this as well, not necessarily the number of villains (although Rogue One definitely had this problem, it had 3 on it's own) but more in that there is the feeling that there MUST be things from the original movies that people know otherwise it's not Star Wars-y enough so pack in as many references and call backs as possible! For instance i would have loved to see the original draft of Rogue One where they got to play around more with the moral ambiguity of the Rebellion, and maybe it could have been more like a spy thriller/heist movie almost Mission Impossible-esque in a way. But of course that would never sell to Joe Public so we get more very pretty looking, but overall kinda boring space battles.
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May 20, 2017 11:12
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Not a movie, but there's an Iain M Banks scifi novel which spends a chunk of the book building up this antagonist as some kind of ultimate grimdark super-evil to the point where the reader is Banks does some funny stuff with your expectations. He wrote a defense of Muslims from the perspective of a guy on Pan Am flight 103. A story where the culture takes a look at Earth and the guy who is in defense of earth gives up his literal god powers to take in NYC and gets stabbed in an alley. I think all the other culture gods watched this go down and were like, he was in his rights to do it.
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May 20, 2017 11:18
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Basically all Banks books should be movies and I'm irritated. I think this is the closest we've got. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRl9D_agLbU
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May 20, 2017 11:20
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Movies where they spend a great deal of time building up the enemy as some fierce+highly skilled/powerful thing, but when they finally face off it's just underwhelming and they are defeated quickly. Comic book movies are undoubtedly the worst offenders, but the movie that specifically irritated when I was watching it yesterday was Fury. The big bad SS gets a large portion of their battalion wiped out by a broken down stationary tank as they stupidly keep marching into the bullets and explosions. I mean, it was enjoyable watching the nazis get owned don't get me wrong, but in reality you would think a battle-hardened unit like that would have probably been would have just retreated and taken them out much easier than they eventually managed to. If they really acted like that, well no wonder they lost the war. The SS was supposed to be dangerous due to their conviction. They were absolutely the type of troops that would throw themselves into gunfire in a pigheaded show of force, it's the reason they fought on despite being clearly defeated. Like, that's the whole point of the movie. The Allied Forces are already on German territory taking city after city, sure the Germans get a few kills in with their murder tanks and landmines and whatnot but there is absolutely no way they could still win, they just fight on because they are fuckers. Also, that particular unit was in a bit of a hurry since they wanted to ambush an Allied convoy of medics.
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May 20, 2017 11:20
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syscall girl posted:Basically all Banks books should be movies and I'm irritated. I completely agree, even though I have no idea how nanosecond epic space battles between omniscient AI Minds could be filmed. But there could be a director out there who could pull it off. I also would love the Culture to continue on, but it's hard to know who could take on that mantle. My dream would be a collab between Charlie Stross and China Mieville \ e: also, State of the Art owns, god bless the Beeb
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May 20, 2017 11:27
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Ok but it's not like they were charging into an evenly matched fight, they had the upper hand by far and just threw it away. The way they acted was just plain stupid, not a demonstration of their conviction or whatever imho.
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May 20, 2017 11:27
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Ok but it's not like they were charging into an evenly matched fight, they had the upper hand by far and just threw it away. The way they acted was just plain stupid, not a demonstration of their conviction or whatever imho. Their conviction was that it's the greatest honor to die for the fatherland, which I agree is pretty dumb.
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May 20, 2017 11:29
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syscall girl posted:Banks does some funny stuff with your expectations. He wrote a defense of Muslims from the perspective of a guy on Pan Am flight 103. A story where the culture takes a look at Earth and the guy who is in defense of earth gives up his literal god powers to take in NYC and gets stabbed in an alley. I think all the other culture gods watched this go down and were like, he was in his rights to do it. Wasn't the dude also massively drunk all through his impassioned speech in defence of Earth? I always found that a pretty hilarious indictment of all of humanity's justifications for its lovely behaviour. Doubly so because of the near impossibility of a Culture citizen being a raging alcoholic.
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May 20, 2017 12:38
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Wasn't the dude also massively drunk all through his impassioned speech in defence of Earth? I always found that a pretty hilarious indictment of all of humanity's justifications for its lovely behaviour. Doubly so because of the near impossibility of a Culture citizen being a raging alcoholic. I think we have found the inspiration for The World's End 
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May 20, 2017 12:42
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Ok but it's not like they were charging into an evenly matched fight, they had the upper hand by far and just threw it away. The way they acted was just plain stupid, not a demonstration of their conviction or whatever imho. The thing (which he movie hasn't communicated very clearly) is that "SS" is not necessarily synonymous with "actually good at war". A significant chunk of it was just active in the rear areas committing war crimes, without actually taking part in any frontline fighting. Then there was the semi-civilian Allgemeine SS, who were mostly made up of unpaid volunteers taking care of various duties back in Germany itself. Towards the end of the war, both of these groups were hastily armed (often with whatever surplus garbage was available) and thrown against the incoming allied forces. So in that context, it's quite feasible that the incoming battalion might have been highly motivated, but poorly supplied (IIRC the movie made a point of showing they had like a single crate of Panzerfausts) and with nobody in there actually knowing much of anything about strategy and tactics. That's basically the perfect combination for the idiot Nazi in charge to decide "Just a single tank? Well we're glorious Übermenschen, so we just need to charge straight in and roll right over it!"
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May 20, 2017 13:04
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I guess it's not the greatest example. The scene still strikes me as at least being gratuitous (which I doubt anyone would deny) and left me scratching my head wondering why they didn't have a panzerfaust guy up front when they were first checking it out, or why they didn't flank them with them considering they seemed like almost 1-hit tank kill weapons, or any other number of things that would have made more sense. I mean I get that it was the end of the war and maybe they weren't necessarily battle tested/trained, but brad pitt and his buddies still seemed to be scared of them, so the fact that it at least temporarily seemed like they might survive seemed like a stretch to me.
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May 20, 2017 13:18
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