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When you verbatim use lines like, "We're the same, you and I!" And "all I've ever wanted was a sister." I'm sorry, I'm not going to give you too much credit. Original filmmaking is hard. Cribbing and making a paint by numbers film is not (as hard).
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May 19, 2017 20:35
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CelticPredator posted:So uh, maybe try watching films to feel something...and feel those things, and feel emotions and your life would be better over all instead of trying to critically analyze films all the time. Yeah. For myself, I went into the movie to enjoy the experience, and found it didn't work at all emotionally and wasn't particularly funny, so I'm left with a movie that didn't even look particularly good. But if you did find it moving and funny I can't expect you to care all that much about the latter. Like, Yondu's funeral. Him being redeemed to Peter means something. But the climax is Yondu being redeemed in the eyes of the Ravagers, and that means nothing to me: they're a murderous gang of pirates led by an imperious rear end in a top hat. Yondu might have cared about their approval, but that was a character flaw, not something to be celebrated with fireworks. It's like if Batman v Superman had the military funeral for Superman be more prominent in the story than the personal funeral for Clark Kent. It's totally rear end-backwards. GoldfishStew posted:When you verbatim use lines like, "We're the same, you and I!" Yeah, that was wild. It feels like it's supposed to be a joke, it's such a hack line, but it didn't come across that way.
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May 19, 2017 20:39
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GoldfishStew posted:When you verbatim use lines like, "We're the same, you and I!" And "all I've ever wanted was a sister." I'm sorry, I'm not going to give you too much credit. Original filmmaking is hard. Cribbing and making a paint by numbers film is not (as hard). The overwhelming majority of filmmakers use "tropes". Even the ones held in high regard. This is not a legitimate complaint.
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May 19, 2017 20:40
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Yaws posted:The overwhelming majority of... ... everything is bad.
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May 19, 2017 20:41
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CelticPredator posted:Maybe it's because I look at films through a more filmmakery lens, but to me, getting someone to feel something from the piece of art you created is extremely great and super hard to achieve. You can want people to be critical of films and poo poo and that's fine I guess. But I just don't see any real application for it outside of a classroom. Human beings are emotional creatures. We use emotions to communicate, and to articulate ideas and opinions. To remove that element from art, and especially this artform, is pretty disingenuous. I thought it was cool and good for people to have different visions?
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May 19, 2017 21:03
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Imagine being this emotionally invested in GoTG v2.
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May 19, 2017 21:14
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Yaws posted:The overwhelming majority of filmmakers use "tropes". Even the ones held in high regard. This is not a legitimate complaint. Yaws posted:The overwhelming majority of filmmakers use "tropes". Even the ones held in high regard. This is not a legitimate complaint. It is a legitimate complaint. I am well aware that there are only so many stories to tell or relationships to comment on. But a deft writer will hide these by putting their own spin on it. Literally just using lines that have been used again and again is lazy and uninteresting to me. Again, enjoy your standard fare blockbuster. That's fine. Just don't sit here pretending it's something it's not, which is anything other than mediocre.
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May 19, 2017 21:18
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GoldfishStew posted:It is a legitimate complaint. I am well aware that there are only so many stories to tell or relationships to comment on. But a deft writer will hide these by putting their own spin on it. Literally just using lines that have been used again and again is lazy and uninteresting to me. Again, enjoy your standard fare blockbuster. That's fine. Just don't sit here pretending it's something it's not, which is anything other than mediocre. It's not a complaint that's worth considering when determining the merits of a film. Everyone from Spielberg to Fincher to Kurosawa has dealt with tropes. It's almost an inevitability when telling a story. This applies to films made now, films made in the Silent Era to films made in India (or wherever). You don't get points for pointing out standard plot beats. This is the laziest form of film criticism.
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May 19, 2017 21:23
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I like that we're pretending that "I liked it", "Best Marvel Movie", "Better than the first one", and "7/10" are now the rave reviews of sycophants in the throws of worshiping their perfect film.
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May 19, 2017 21:25
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Yaws posted:It's not a complaint that's worth considering when determining the merits of a film. Everyone from Spielberg to Fincher to Kurosawa has dealt with tropes. It's almost an inevitability when telling a story. This applies to films made now, films made in the Silent Era to films made in India (or wherever). You don't get points for pointing out standard plot beats. I don't know how many other ways to say that those people you mentioned, and others, including Gunn himself, have been better at hiding those tropes, beats, and standards. Literally saying, "You're alike, you and I!" Is lazy and if you don't see that you are also lazy.
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May 19, 2017 21:28
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Do filmmakers even think of "tropes" or are they just popular in a particular corner of the internet.
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May 19, 2017 21:29
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GoldfishStew posted:I don't know how many other ways to say that those people you mentioned, and others, including Gunn himself, have been better at hiding those tropes, beats, and standards. Literally saying, "You're alike, you and I!" Is lazy and if you don't see that you are also lazy. Better at hiding? Well if that's the best you can do...
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May 19, 2017 21:30
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Gyges posted:I like that we're pretending that "I liked it", "Best Marvel Movie", "Better than the first one", and "7/10" are now the rave reviews of sycophants in the throws of worshiping their perfect film. It's less reacting to people who say they like it (me included) than reacting to the handful of people who debate every. single. criticism. of the film as if this Marvel film were a jenga tower on the verge of collapsing if we admitted that like, the visuals or dialogue could have been better
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May 19, 2017 21:31
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euphronius posted:Do filmmakers even think of "tropes" or are they just popular in a particular corner of the internet. they might not use that word specifically but it's not like it's a weird coincidence that hollywood filmmakers draw on the same plot beats and character archetypes over and over
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May 19, 2017 21:32
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Franchescanado posted:I thought the intro tour to Ego's planet was a little reminiscent of the landscape area of Willy Wonka's factory. I agree it wasn't embraced as much as it could have been (but I don't know how you could explore that without hurting the pacing), but that first scene was very colorful (though a little flat depth-wise), and each scene used a different color palette to keep it moving (rainbow palette for the intro, then white with red emphasis for the jackets, then greens, then blues (for the night scene), then oranges/red for Gamora's seclusion, oranges/greens for Drax and Mantis's conversation). All of it was framed very well. Plenty of wide-angle lenses, most of the characters stayed out of the center to keep the energy up. The internal parts of Ego's planets were a wonderful blend of greens and blues, which worked well for a backdrop of a golden army, while Ego's forms and veins were white and light blues. Sorry this took me so long to respond to. Anyway, I have only seen the movie once and I don't think here is a....high quality version for me to access on my own where I could rewatch and screen cap for you but I will do my best to answer accurately and honestly but please bear with me. For me, I really really really liked the first guardians. I saw it five times in theaters. I fell for the movie hard. Trying to think back on what I liked visually about that movie as opposed to this movie, I feel like it was a matter of scope and size. A lot of the first movie goes big, like maybe when they get to the floating head planet (even five+ times in I forget the name), the place where they meet the collector. OK, that planet was super visually interesting to me and they start big by showing us the whole planet from the outside and then we get smaller and smaller until we are mostly just in a bar or in a collector's office. These places are filled with, what is the word for real props, but, you know, actual things as opposed to glaringly obvious CGI. A lot of the times on Ego's planet, even if it's just a backdrop, the stuff was so grand and CGI that it gave me the same vibes as some of the scenes in the Star Wars prequels (ep 1 in particular). The first one, many times visually, set us up big visually and then got us smaller. Tight corridors or in a ship or what have you. I just didnt find the grand CGI of this one appealing or particularly good looking. And I know many many many films use CGI. This is similar to my writing complaint. Yes, many writers use tropes but they are better about hiding it. Same with CGI for this movie, I felt it just looked like a generic Marvel movie as opposed to having real character, visually, like the first one did.
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May 19, 2017 21:36
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Guy A. Person posted:It's less reacting to people who say they like it (me included) than reacting to the handful of people who debate every. single. criticism. of the film as if this Marvel film were a jenga tower on the verge of collapsing if we admitted that like, the visuals or dialogue could have been better Yeah, this is what pisses me off the most. Like, it's a fine movie. I personally liked the first one way more but that movie really hit my clit. But what really gets under my skin are people who just bury their head in the sand or try and refute any problem someone had with the movie. Saying, "that wasn't a problem for me but I can see where you're coming from" goes a long way as opposed to "No, your criticism is wrong and invalid. Please post a list of movies you like so I can find the same problems in those and thus prove you know nothing about film." Things can have flaws and still be good and liked. You can also want more from your comic book movies.
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May 19, 2017 21:39
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Are we not supposed to disagree with you or something? Am I not allowed to not see what your problem is? I get that it may be an issue for you, but it didn't bother me one bit, and still doesn't bother me one bit. So what's the problem?
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May 19, 2017 21:43
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GoldfishStew posted:Yeah, this is what pisses me off the most. Like, it's a fine movie. I personally liked the first one way more but that movie really hit my clit. But what really gets under my skin are people who just bury their head in the sand or try and refute any problem someone had with the movie. From what I can tell, you're only complaint about this movies is that is leaned heavily on well worn tropes. A complaint that has been thoroughly debunked. You need to stop acting as if you're offering any unique criticisms. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 19, 2017 21:46
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Disagreeing is fine and welcome. Trying to say that using stock lines is the same as putting your own spin on a trope and so it should be hand waved away is disingenuous to me. I would prefer admittance of weakness in the writing. If you don't see it as weakness using stock lines, uh, ok. If you dont think they are stock lines/cookie cutter relationships with barely any personal flair added other than Gamora is green and her sister is blue so, uh oh, this ain't your typical sister sister fighting, then you need to ingest more stories.
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May 19, 2017 21:47
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I'm not going to admit to something I don't see. Enjoy your me getting under your skin I suppose.
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May 19, 2017 21:48
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Yaws posted:From what I can tell, you're only complaint about this movies is that is leaned heavily on well worn tropes. A complaint that has been thoroughly debunked. See, you're a loving dipshit because you think you can "debunk" people's actual complaints about the movie. The movie had some lazy writing. 1) I think it's bullshit to be like, "Well other movies have lazy writing, too, so that doesn't count! 2) this movie has AGGRESSIVELY lazy writing if it's just using stock lines, which makes it worse than just using tropes and well worn relationships (which, I know and am not against many movies doing. There's only so many relationships and stories to tell)
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May 19, 2017 21:48
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Yaws posted:From what I can tell, you're only complaint about this movies is that is leaned heavily on well worn tropes. A complaint that has been thoroughly debunked. they literally just posted their thoughts on how the CGI environments weren't used as effectively in this film as the first one above the post you quoted, a criticism that i hadn't seen in this thread yet stop being such a confrontational weirdo
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May 19, 2017 21:49
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GoldfishStew posted:See, you're a loving dipshit because you think you can "debunk" people's actual complaints about the movie. The movie had some lazy writing. Maybe you didn't open yourself enough emotionally to the movie?
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May 19, 2017 21:49
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GoldfishStew posted:Disagreeing is fine and welcome. Trying to say that using stock lines is the same as putting your own spin on a trope and so it should be hand waved away is disingenuous to me. Again these are common tropes found in many well regarded films. You are not offering any unique insight by pointing them out.
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May 19, 2017 21:50
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lol "your opinion on the movie has been thoroughly debunked, you are now obsolete"
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May 19, 2017 21:50
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Yaws, how can you be so insightful in the SW thread but such a total gently caress in this one. It's mind boggling.
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May 19, 2017 21:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Maybe you didn't open yourself enough emotionally to the movie? I cried so it's good. the only time I cried was when it was over because I was happy.
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May 19, 2017 21:52
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I discussed this with a friend. We both agreed that we liked the film overall but it's a significantly flawed work. Be warned, I'm spoiling this poo poo: Yondu and Rocket on the ship just slaughtering the Ravagers as they shave or sleep or run is honestly psychopathic and off-putting. It's fine that Yondu and Rocket are complete maniacs and it can be argued those Ravagers are mutineers who spaced helpless people collectively but they are absolutely butchered and it undercuts the "we're sensitive lost souls" speech later. They didn't even attempt to let them surrender. Even Terminator 2 let the Terminator shoot to wound sometimes. The Ego heel turn moment is ridiculous. It's a stunning admission (and yeah, my theater gasped too) but it's stunning precisely because it's so out of character for him to just genteelly admit "I did this horrific thing that nobody would forgive". Ego clearly understands human emotions, what the gently caress did he think would happen when he revealed that he slowly and painfully killed StarLord's loved one? BTW it did lead to StarLord immediately shooting the poo poo out of him, which I appreciated. Yondu's death and funeral is badly done. The overly-triumphant music blasting out while Yondu froze solid in hard vacuum was inappropriate. I got more out of the funeral than Sir Kodiak (I felt it wasn't so much the Ravagers themselves that mattered, as that Yondu had conquered his demons and redeemed himself by his own internal cultural code) but him literally turning into a rainbow while fireworks go off undercuts his sacrifice. And that was the problem. I've never felt that Gunn's propensity for cartoonish buffoonery undercut the serious aspects of his movies before. I did here. This movie felt a lot like Iron Man 2: they recognized what worked in the first one and tripled down on it to the film's detriment. This is not a bad movie (and I liked the visual design, btw) but it's definitely the lesser of the two Guardians movies.
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May 19, 2017 21:56
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Yondu and Rocket on the ship just slaughtering the Ravagers as they shave or sleep or run is honestly psychopathic and off-putting. They made kid groot cry and kicked him, that's gotta be a death sentence on 12 systems.
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May 19, 2017 22:00
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GoldfishStew posted:Yaws, how can you be so insightful in the SW thread but such a total gently caress in this one. It's mind boggling. Ah man. What rereg are you? Be honest!
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May 19, 2017 22:00
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There is absolutely no justification or spin you can apply for the tumor, by the way. It was all in service of the reveal and then the shooting. The shooting is cool, but for it to exist Gunn shoe horned in a crazy heel turn that made no sense. It had to be a tumor (which is not justifiable) so that we could get the cool reaction from starlord. It doesn't make sense because it only exists to get the cool reaction.
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May 19, 2017 22:04
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it reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgxyL5zEAk
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May 19, 2017 22:05
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Electromax posted:They made kid groot cry and kicked him, that's gotta be a death sentence on 12 systems. Yes, that covers about 20 of them. What about the other 180+?
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May 19, 2017 22:06
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I discussed this with a friend. We both agreed that we liked the film overall but it's a significantly flawed work. Be warned, I'm spoiling this poo poo: Yes on the triple down. As someone much earlier said, this was immediately apparent in the dancing Groot opening. Went on way too long and way too on the nose and then they punch you in the nose with the drax part of it, which felt less like a callback and more just what we had already seen. This applies to every will they wont they start lord gamora scene as well. BUT ALL THIS DOESNT MATTER IS WRONG AND IT'S ACTUALLY A FLAWLESS MOVIE YOU oval office gently caress YOU I LAUGHED I CRIED I CAME
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May 19, 2017 22:07
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GodlfishStew, I say this as somebody with no dog in the fight: please stop. A handful of really invested defenders should not provoke you to angrypost for days on end. Take the weekend off, you'll feel better.
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May 19, 2017 22:10
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if i had a major criticism of gotg2 (which i enjoyed more than the first overall) it's that it really tries to push the yondo as peter's dad thing hard in a movie where they only really meet up at the end(and the previous film didn't really give off that vibe between those two at all, so all you've got is what happens in this one) and the way the plot is written with yondu knowing about ego it has to have them separate until peter knows ego's whole deal i don't really know what aspect of that i would want changed but with how the plot actually happens it kind of ends up sabotaging itself
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May 19, 2017 22:10
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Brother Entropy posted:if i had a major criticism of gotg2 (which i enjoyed more than the first overall) it's that it really tries to push the yondo as peter's dad thing hard in a movie where they only really meet up at the end(and the previous film didn't really give off that vibe between those two at all, so all you've got is what happens in this one) It was probably an allusion to Man of Steel: the misfit hero has both an absent bearded exposition dad and a self-sacrificial redneck dad.
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May 19, 2017 22:15
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GoldfishStew posted:Yes on the triple down. As someone much earlier said, this was immediately apparent in the dancing Groot opening. Went on way too long and way too on the nose and then they punch you in the nose with the drax part of it, which felt less like a callback and more just what we had already seen. This applies to every will they wont they start lord gamora scene as well. My god your persecution complex.. You're main complaint about this film seems to rest on it's reliance on standard cinematic tropes. Who would you have direct it? Or write the screenplay?
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May 19, 2017 22:17
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You know, you would think "I'm not taking you to your father - he's a homicidal demigod who killed his other children" might have come up in conversation over the 2+ decades that Yondu and Peter hung out. Oh well.
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May 19, 2017 22:19
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Yaws posted:Who would you have direct it? Or write the screenplay? Luc Besson, Luc Besson.
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May 19, 2017 22:19
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