UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Apparently you're all a bunch of minor aristos

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/19/pay-social-care-britain-land-of-minor-aristocrats-tory-manifesto-plan

# ? May 20, 2017 10:59

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:49

Biggus Dickus: May 18, 2005; Roadies know where to focus the spotlight.

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/865855578454806529

I'm pretty sure she's trying to throw this election.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:00

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Cerv posted:

Apparently you're all a bunch of minor aristos

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/19/pay-social-care-britain-land-of-minor-aristocrats-tory-manifesto-plan

I love a false dichotomy in the morning

# ? May 20, 2017 11:01

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Biggus Dickus posted:

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/865855578454806529

I'm pretty sure she's trying to throw this election.

What about that tweet makes you think this?

# ? May 20, 2017 11:03

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Biggus Dickus posted:

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/865855578454806529

I'm pretty sure she's trying to throw this election.

A bit weird that she holds more than one seat, isn't it?

# ? May 20, 2017 11:04

TomViolence: Feb 19, 2013; PLEASE ASK ABOUT MY 80,000 WORD WALLACE AND GROMIT SLASH FICTION. PLEASE.

awesome-express posted:

Here's a hot take on Trident: as long as there are malicious actors who possess nukes then there needs to be a deterrent to prevent said actors from acting on their malicious goals.

Ideally we wouldn't need nukes but we live in world where people would unironically vote for Tory Jesus.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen

This is very true. How can China, Russia and North Korea expect to protect themselves against NATO without a nuclear deterrant? The world may never be safe from dangerous rogue states like the US, UK and France.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:05

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Lifelong Labour Voters Back Means-Testing For Free School Meals

quote:

Both women and men in the key marginal of Bury South in Lancashire said that they supported an extension of means-testing � where income is linked to state aid - and opposed Jeremy Corbyn�s plans to abolish student tuition fees.

The focus group participants, all from working class backgrounds, said that it was unfair that the better off in society were given the winter fuel allowance, which is worth up to �300 a year.

Jo, who works with troubled children, said: �You get some elderly people who are on pensions, plus say another �30,000. They don�t need the �100.�

Louise, a council social services worker, said: �I�d rather it goes somewhere else in the country.�

The focus groups felt just as strongly that the Prime Minister was right to end universal free school meals for under-8s in primary schools, a policy introduced by David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

Michelle, a teacher and a single mum, said she struggled to make ends meet. �I know people who earn over �100,000 and their children get free school meals. [You think] �What?�

�When my child was at primary school, I had to struggle to pay for the dinner money. It doesn�t make sense. It should be means tested.�

Louise added: �They could save the money, it should go to the NHS or other areas in the school, to pay for an extra teaching assistant I think it�s crazy money�.

Phil, a NHS psychiatric nurse in a secure unit, said: �Call me old fashioned, call me a dinosaur but I don�t think there�s a lot wrong with the means test. If you can afford it, you can afford it.�

John, an HGV mechanic, added: �My little boy starts school in September and I�ve got no problem paying a tenner a week.�

The focus groups were surprised when they discovered that Labour was planning to extend free school meals to primary school pupils of all ages, rather than just the current system for infants.

Dawn, a recruitment consultant and mother of two, said: �It�s a waste of money�. Louise dismissed the Jeremy Corbyn plan as �a ridiculous idea�.

The voters in Bury South - a bellwether constituency where Labour�s Ivan Lewis is facing a strong challenge from the Tories - repeatedly said that liked some of the party�s policies but worried that it would spend too much when the deficit was still high.

Teacher Jack said: �I genuinely like the new Labour manifesto, it�s just the implications we are going to have in one, two, five years� time.�

Nurse Phil added: �The consequences [of] the manifesto. I�m struggling me, I like looking at the figures. The ins, the outs, the expenditure, I just wonder if it�s a catastrophe waiting to happen.�

As with last week�s focus group in London among students, Labour�s plan to spend �11.2bn on abolishing university tuition fees was also unpopular.

Dawn was blunt. �In my eyes that would mean people are going to go to university just to doss for three years,� she said. �People who genuinely want to go to university won�t have the places.�

Louise said: �Again, make it means tested�

Phil, whose state-school educated teenage son has been offered place at Oxford, said he would �worry� about Labour�s plan.

�My concern is if they bring those fees down to zero�My lad is saying �hopefully I�ve got a job good enough to pay these fees back�.

�If it�s zero, I hate to say it I think there�s a lot out there who will see it as another easy meal ticket for three years of doing nothing. It�s a massive strain on the budget�.

Phil said the Tory plan seemed like �a fairer method�. He explained how his father had become a paraplegic late in life but was asked to contribute �9,000 to a special wheelchair simply because he had saved all his life and accumulated assets. �It leaves a sour taste in the mouth,� he said.

Note: Participants were habitual Labour voters who are considering voting Conservative at this election. The vast majority were from Bury South and all were from Labour held constituencies. They were in social grades c1c2d, in work and 30-59 years old. One group was with men, one was with women.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:07

Biggus Dickus: May 18, 2005; Roadies know where to focus the spotlight.

Pissflaps posted:

What about that tweet makes you think this?

Amazing, I actually considered considered clarifying that this was mild humour on my part because some loving pedant would miss it. LO AND BEHOLD.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:08

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Biggus Dickus posted:

Amazing, I actually considered considered clarifying that this was mild humour on my part because some loving pedant would miss it. LO AND BEHOLD.

I think your attempts at 'mild humour' will have been lost on most people. Try making it funny next time.

The Tories are going to keep playing up the labour 'threat' in order to bolster their turnout and prevent their voters from becoming complacent. Expect to see more of this over the next three weeks.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:10

Oh dear me: Aug 14, 2012; I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

Huffpo focus group posted:

Phil said the Tory plan seemed like �a fairer method�. He explained how his father had become a paraplegic late in life but was asked to contribute �9,000 to a special wheelchair simply because he had saved all his life and accumulated assets. �It leaves a sour taste in the mouth,� he said.

Means testing seems fairer because means testing leaves sour taste in mouth. Labour really need to do some educational campaigns tackling basic concepts like means testing, tax thresholds and so on.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:14

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps posted:

Lifelong Labour Voters Back Means-Testing For Free School Meals

All of these people are going to flip out when suddenly they are counted as having too many assets to qualify for something. ^^^^Yeah christ.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:17

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Means testing works as a Keynesian job creation scheme where everyone gets employed as inspectors inspecting inspectors, probably through some private contractor.

As actual policy though it's garbage, just recover it through taxation, that way on aggregate people aren't 'better off' past a threshold.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:33

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Oh dear me posted:

Means testing seems fairer because means testing leaves sour taste in mouth. Labour really need to do some educational campaigns tackling basic concepts like means testing, tax thresholds and so on.

Darth Walrus posted:

It's signalling that the Conservatives will be willing to make the tough decisions necessary for the economy.

The Tories are actively engaged in persuading the British citizentry that cruelty against the undeserving is necessary to make the country run, and encouraging them to view manifestos containing insufficient amounts of cruelty with suspicion.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:33

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Prince John posted:

My gut feeling is that there is still genuine disagreement on Trident and they're both speaking truthfully. All sides have agreed that it's necessary to keep Trident renewal as Labour policy at the moment, and to keep it in the manifesto, for the sake of a united front. All the CND lot genuinely see the defence review as a chance to change that stance in the future (which is probably why they agreed to temporarily support it now).

Is this the same Trident review that's been rolling since 2015 under various guises? Because this 'Labour policy is under review' line has been rolled out multiple times in the past and stacked with people like Ken Livingstone (crisis in itself) so there's a reasonable suspicion the outcome is a foregone conclusion and it's just being delayed for an opportune moment.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:35

winegums: Dec 21, 2012

I wish they'd give over on the whole scrapping trident thing. It's not a vote winner in the slightest. Get people happy, well paid, economically safe and generally content and they won't care if you scrap the floating nukes.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:37

jabby: Oct 27, 2010

Pissflaps posted:

Lifelong Labour Voters Back Means-Testing For Free School Meals

This would be the group whose focus group of students contained only one Labour voter out of eight (despite more than half of students planning to vote Labour) and found that scrapping tuition fees was unpopular among students (despite being supported by 46% of the general population).

I'm not sure I trust their conclusions to be representative of anything.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:40

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Pissflaps posted:

Lifelong Labour Voters Back Means-Testing For Free School Meals

Countdown until one of them is on QT acting all surprised that the Tories have cut their subsidy in 3... 2.. 1...

# ? May 20, 2017 11:43

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

winegums posted:

I wish they'd give over on the whole scrapping trident thing. It's not a vote winner in the slightest. Get people happy, well paid, economically safe and generally content and they won't care if you scrap the floating nukes.

I think they have given over on it, the trouble is that interviewers continually bring it up because "Labour rift over Trident" is considered a newsworthy story.

# ? May 20, 2017 11:52

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/865818765191196672

# ? May 20, 2017 11:53

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

weird, i didn't think i'd ever see jim davidson near a disabled spot

# ? May 20, 2017 11:56

awesome-express: Dec 30, 2008

TomViolence posted:

This is very true. How can China, Russia and North Korea expect to protect themselves against NATO without a nuclear deterrant? The world may never be safe from dangerous rogue states like the US, UK and France.

Ah yes the beacon of liberty and freedom of expression that is North Korea.

Those dastardly and dictatorial Frenchmen sure are the blocker to a fairer and less oppressive planet.

# ? May 20, 2017 12:00

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

crispix posted:

Goons, I will be in the Question Time audience this coming Thursday.

Can you please be the angry person who complains about party bickering and suggest that politicians just sit down and work together to do what's best?

# ? May 20, 2017 12:03

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

Alchenar posted:

Is this the same Trident review that's been rolling since 2015 under various guises? Because this 'Labour policy is under review' line has been rolled out multiple times in the past and stacked with people like Ken Livingstone (crisis in itself) so there's a reasonable suspicion the outcome is a foregone conclusion and it's just being delayed for an opportune moment.

I imagine it'd be part of the Strategic Defence & Security Review that they've said they'll do

# ? May 20, 2017 12:03

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

awesome-express posted:

Those dastardly and dictatorial Frenchmen sure are the blocker to a fairer and less oppressive planet.

I cannot begin to comprehend why you think this is a gotcha, because it's clearly the case if you consider either general neoliberal policy or French (post-|)colonialism.

# ? May 20, 2017 12:03

jabby: Oct 27, 2010

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Can you please be the angry person who complains about party bickering and suggest that politicians just sit down and work together to do what's best?

Nah, he should be like the young woman on last week who gifted a panel of rival political parties with the chance to bash Corbyn for ten minutes, and then bizarrely turned out to be a Corbyn supporter.

# ? May 20, 2017 12:08

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

awesome-express posted:

Those dastardly and dictatorial Frenchmen sure are the blocker to a fairer and less oppressive planet.

Yup, agreed.

# ? May 20, 2017 12:08

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Biggus Dickus posted:

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/865855578454806529

I'm pretty sure she's trying to throw this election.

It seems unlikely to me that the Conservatives would fail to form a government on 324 seats.

# ? May 20, 2017 12:15

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

jabby posted:

This would be the group whose focus group of students contained only one Labour voter out of eight (despite more than half of students planning to vote Labour) and found that scrapping tuition fees was unpopular among students (despite being supported by 46% of the general population).

I'm not sure I trust their conclusions to be representative of anything.

Would it?

Note: Participants were habitual Labour voters who are considering voting Conservative at this election. The vast majority were from Bury South and all were from Labour held constituencies. They were in social grades c1c2d, in work and 30-59 years old. One group was with men, one was with women..

Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 12:40 on May 20, 2017

# ? May 20, 2017 12:18

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

I think that article is framed in a misleading way. It should make it clear from the outset that they specifically sought out Labour voters who are considering switching. The first few paragraphs makes it sound like they just got a general sample of Labour voters.

# ? May 20, 2017 12:21

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

They are a sample of labour voters. It's not misleading at all. What's the point of doing a focus group of people who have already made up their mind?

# ? May 20, 2017 12:25

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

Pissflaps posted:

Would it?

Note: Participants were habitual Labour voters who are considering voting Conservative at this election.

A panel of pissflaps

# ? May 20, 2017 12:26

Intrinsic Field Marshal: Sep 6, 2014; by SA Support Robot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEhLPef6K18

Its Over

Our Lad Alexander Jahans has given up on this elections

I hope mummy may takes away his bennies so he has to get a job

# ? May 20, 2017 12:30

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEhLPef6K18

Its Over

Our Lad Alexander Jahans has given up on this elections

I hope mummy may takes away his bennies so he has to get a job

Two questions.

Why do you do this to yourself? And why are you doing this to the rest of us?

# ? May 20, 2017 12:40

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Pissflaps posted:

They are a sample of labour voters. It's not misleading at all. What's the point of doing a focus group of people who have already made up their mind?

It's a sample of a specific subset of Labour voters. Like if I deliberately selected a bunch of pro-fox hunting people and ran a panel on fox hunting I wouldn't call it a sample of English voters even if that is technically accurate. Nor would I frame it in a way that suggested I found that 100% of people support fox hunting.

I don't have a problem with running a panel like that, it's interesting to see why those people want to switch their votes and whether manifesto pledges could bring them back. But the headline and first few paragraphs of the article suggests that they selected a bunch of loyal Labour voters at random and found that every single one of them hated free school meals and was going to vote Conservative. Which is misleading.

Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 12:43 on May 20, 2017

# ? May 20, 2017 12:40

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Irony Be My Shield posted:

It's a sample of a specific subset of Labour voters. Like if I deliberately selected a bunch of pro-fox hunting people and ran a panel on fox hunting I wouldn't call it a sample of English voters even if that is technically accurate. Nor would I frame it in a way that suggested I found that 100% of people support fox hunting.

Yes it's specifically a sample of wavering labour voters - the opinion of which will be crucial on June 8th.

How could the headline be written to not be 'misleading', in your eyes?

# ? May 20, 2017 12:52

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuMTghmG2Pw&t=436s

# ? May 20, 2017 13:10

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Pissflaps posted:

Yes it's specifically a sample of wavering labour voters - the opinion of which will be crucial on June 8th.

How could the headline be written to not be 'misleading', in your eyes?

"Labour Voters who are Considering Voting Conservative Back Means-Testing For Free School Meals".

# ? May 20, 2017 13:14

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Irony Be My Shield posted:

"Labour Voters who are Considering Voting Conservative Back Means-Testing For Free School Meals".

I think theirs is better.

# ? May 20, 2017 13:16

Intrinsic Field Marshal: Sep 6, 2014; by SA Support Robot

forkboy84 posted:

Two questions.

Why do you do this to yourself? And why are you doing this to the rest of us?

Do you understand Pain a little now?If you don�t share someone�s pain you can never understand them.

# ? May 20, 2017 13:24

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:49

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Pissflaps posted:

I think theirs is better.

It's more eyecatching due to being inaccurate.

# ? May 20, 2017 13:40

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