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Gibson's stuff is all pretty damned anti-right. And Brin's Uplift series is very pro-socialist, when it boils down to it.
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May 20, 2017 01:45
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There's a lot of up-and-coming coming SF/F authors that lean left, or at least don't outright embrace fascism - that's what the whole Sad/Rabid Puppies bullshit the past few years has been a reaction to. Even older stuff - Kim Stanley Robinson is basically a Marxist.
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May 20, 2017 01:54
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Le Guin is, if not specifically leftist, at the least opposed to the idea of American/white/male exceptionalism and centrality, and actively works to promote alternative perspectives in her writing. Those who walk away from Omelas is considered a touchstone of dystopian fiction for simply asking what a perfect society should cost. Joanna Russ reads a bit datedly now but The Female Man is a condemnation of a lot of mid-century American assumptions about gender, war, and hierarchy. There's a whole big movement/history of feminist SF which can fall into the trap of being America-centric or overly white or many other such failings, but tends to be pretty anti-rightwing broadly.
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May 20, 2017 03:20
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Picked up Torchbearer with the intent of running it for my group but I'm only familiar with d20 systems like 3E/4E/13A and this book is sort of difficult to read. Where should I be starting?
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May 20, 2017 04:49
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Covok posted:What we need is gritty military sci-fi that is all about the failures of facism and the necessity of socialist, liberal democracy you should probably read Forever War Jackard posted:Picked up Torchbearer with the intent of running it for my group but I'm only familiar with d20 systems like 3E/4E/13A and this book is sort of difficult to read. Torchbearer is horribly laid out and written in Luke Crane-ese, which is AFAICT intentionally hostile to being understood by anyone who has arranged their brain so as to make D&D make sense. It's probably not the best place to start with a Burning Wheel variant; I'd say the most gamer-friendly BW/Crane game is Mouse Guard. Kestral's F&F writeup of Mouse Guard should help you get a handle on how it's supposed to work. It's not exactly the same, but it should give you an idea of how things work well enough that Torchbearer is a bit more comprehensible. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 09:32 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 07:52
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Cease to Hope posted:Torchbearer is horribly laid out and written in Luke Crane-ese, which is AFAICT intentionally hostile to being understood by anyone who has arranged their brain so as to make D&D make sense.  Especially the part where it encourages players to use character traits against themselves for points - that kind of poo poo pops up in some of my groups anyhow, but there's no purpose to handicaps in those systems. The link is broken, but thanks for the heads up - I googled his article Jackard fucked around with this message at 08:13 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 08:07
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Apparently that F&F link to my Mouse Guard writeup breaks if you remove the '/' at the end of it Torchbearer's difficulty is being a liiiiittle oversold here, IMO, but I'm not the best one to judge that given my history with BWHQ games. The key to understanding any of those games (Burning Wheel, Burning Empires, Mouse Guard, Torchbearer) is to read them straight through. This is not how we're used to absorbing RPG books, which are often written with the assumption that we'll jump around in the text a lot rather than actually read them like an instruction manual. Start at the beginning, read to the end, and you should build up familiarity with the terminology as you go. If that isn't fitting your style of learning - and everyone's different, so it might not! - and you have a tolerance for watching / listening to Actual Play, check out either Roll20 Presents Torchbearer or Eric Vulgaris' Torchbearer game, whichever one whose cast clicks better with you. Adam Koebel from Roll20 Presents is better at explaining the game, but Eric has a better cast of players and their game is dramatic as hell by the end. That said, Cease to Hope is right in that Mouse Guard is far and away the easiest BWHQ game to learn, because the book was written for people who are brand-new to the hobby, including precocious kids. Do you have any specific questions at the moment, or it more of a generalized "oh god what is this game" situation?
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May 20, 2017 09:04
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Kestral posted:Do you have any specific questions at the moment, or it more of a generalized "oh god what is this game" situation?
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May 20, 2017 09:36
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Jackard posted:Picked up Torchbearer with the intent of running it for my group but I'm only familiar with d20 systems like 3E/4E/13A and this book is sort of difficult to read. I had a much easier time understanding Torchbearer after I had read Mouse Guard. Which is not the most useful advice unfortunately. Watching some of the linked actual play stuff should help. The thing I found is that system has a bunch of interlocking systems and procedures which won't apply to every test you make when playing but that you need to grasp when reading the rules. This makes is super dense on first read through.
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May 20, 2017 13:59
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The Deleter posted:Is there ANY fantasy/scifi that isn't creepy or rightwing bollocks though? Like, even Terry Pratchett's Discworld features a benevolent dictator who rules by dint of everyone being too scared for their own hides, okay with the status quo, or too stupid to take him out, and that's not even the most egregious example. Vetinari was also tolerated because instead of doing mass killings, secret police, and arbitrarily imprisoning the populace like past patricians, he was slowly transforming it into a modern society. If Pratchett hadn't died, it was pretty clear that Ankh-Morpork was on the trajectory to transition away from the need for a patrician or an absolute monarchy because of him.
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May 20, 2017 14:20
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Vetinari is supposed to pretty much literally be Machieavelli's the Prince right? A strong political ruler who manipulates and uses fear instead of violence and strengthens institutions to allow the way for a Republic in the end. It's similar to what a lot of real world polities went through during history so I don't really agree with labeling the work as right-wing because of it.
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May 20, 2017 14:37
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Nuns with Guns posted:Vetinari was also tolerated because instead of doing mass killings, secret police, and arbitrarily imprisoning the populace like past patricians, Well, assuming you aren't a mime. (I don't think Vetinari really works through fear that much—his number one weapon is explicitly "make it more convenient for everybody to work with me than to face the alternative.")
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May 20, 2017 14:38
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Yeah. Who wants to risk losing the fight for succession? Besides, compared to his horrible predecessors, a sane one is a bit of a relief.
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May 20, 2017 16:51
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Jackard posted:A lot of "oh god what is this" so far. Like just now i skipped some chapters and found an example of play, which normally goes in the front of these books Yeah, as mentioned, it's laid out in an unusual way for pedagogical purposes, making certain assumptions about the reader which aren't necessarily accurate. If you have any further questions, feel free to hit me up in PMs or in this thread. There's also the BWHQ forums, which are an absolutely incredible resource for all their games - unfortunately those forums won't be around much longer, as the site has been under attack by bots and hackers for the better part of a decade now, and the decision to sunset them was made after a recent major breach.
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May 20, 2017 18:03
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Rand Brittain posted:Well, assuming you aren't a mime. He works through "fear of a city without him", I guess. Anyway, calling any subtext in a Discworld "right-wing" is pretty silly when the Watch books show over and over gain that a system of absolute power goes to hell in a handbasket and is usually run by maniacs and sociopaths.
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May 20, 2017 19:59
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Well-known right-wing author Terry Pratchett
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May 20, 2017 20:49
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The disc is a world where mythical things exist. Magic, trolls, giant space turtles. And among these, is that greatest myth of all - a politician who doesn't care for personal gain and makes decisions for the greater good of the city, rather than individual businesses. Plus Ankh-Morpork is super liberal in certain aspects. Like it's attitudes to mixed-race mixed-gender marriages, or drug use. "A person should be able to put whatever they like in their bodies, so long as they aren't operating heavy machinery at the time." Fake edit: I can never remember all the IRC and Discord channels TG generates... is there any reason they're not just in a stickied post?
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May 20, 2017 21:11
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My read on the Disc is that the closest-to-ideal society presented (at least from the narrative's point of view) is the kingdom of Lancre (namely the version scene in later witch books like Lords and Ladies and Carpe Jugulum). A small population that lives largely independently and feels it's very important to have a leader to serve as a (figure)head of state, but also feels it's essential that the king not really get involved in their day-to-day life in any meaningful way. He just needs to be there for "royal stuff" (state dinners, throwing parties, waving, etc). In other words a lot like Britian's current relationship with the royal family minus any other form of government (prime minister, parliament, etc) being a part of the picture. So purely aesthetic monarchy draped over...I guess a kind of loose, chill, traditionalist anarchy? Not sure what the proper governmental term would be. Of course, you could do a deep reading to show that this is bad-wrong in many different ways. But it's also (like everything else in discworld) not meant to be a literal endorsement of a particular government or lifestyle so much as it is a parody of some slice of reality wrapped in Pratchett's humor. Just because a thing happens in a book does not mean that the book is demanding it happen in reality.
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May 20, 2017 22:33
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I don't really recall anything in Pratchett that suggests that people in Lancre are any happier than people in Ankh-Morpork.
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May 20, 2017 22:36
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't really recall anything in Pratchett that suggests that people in Lancre are any happier than people in Ankh-Morpork. The lack of casual murder and/or organized crime is a pretty big selling point. But I'm not saying that Ankh-Morpork is represented as awful (other than the murder, the protection rackets, the river of barely-moving poo poo, the tendency to burn down, the racial tensions that are only just starting to ease, etc) but that life in Lancre generally just more idyllic and their threats tend to be external, where as most of Ankh-Morpork's problems are internal.
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May 20, 2017 22:48
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oriongates posted:The lack of casual murder and/or organized crime is a pretty big selling point. That doesn't mean the people are necessarily happier - more bored maybe, but whether living in a city or an idyllic countryside people tend to just be people. Take Northern Ireland for example, soft green grass, rolling hills, free range horses and livestock, rainbows and leprechauns daily, real high rates of depression and anxiety.
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May 20, 2017 23:35
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Yeah, but we aren't really talking "government" at that point. Lancre does, generally speaking, a better job of making sure that its citizens don't get murdered, have to pay a monthly fee to not be robbed, get abused by those in power, have the right to self-determination, not get caught up in pointless wars, not get set on fire, etc. In general Ankh stories are about dealing with a problem with the city (racial tensions, suppression of competition or free speech, mad gunman, jingoism, civil rights) and how the characters are working to make things better. Where as Lancre stories are about something coming in to ruin their otherwise pretty fine lives and at the end things return largely to the status quo (with Wyrd Sisters being the significant exception, but most early disc books where fairly different...early Ankh was the same). Of course, we can't speculate heavily on rates of depression and suicide among fictional citizens...but it's clear that Lancre has less social/political problems than AM. But, as I pointed out originally, we're talking about parodies and caricatures. These are not real people. Or real countries. they're the creations of a humorous jokester to poke fun at various parts of the world (Ankh-Morepork being London/America; Lancre being rural UK, etc). My intent was to point out the futility of trying to map them as a guideline to modern society as something to critique or inspire. Sir. Pratchett certainly had political opinions and that certainly can come through in his writing...but that doesn't mean every character is an expression of that. You can have characters like the Patrician without assuming that he supports tyranny, or characters like Carrot or Verence without assuming he supports monarchy.
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May 21, 2017 00:00
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People in Lancre are also dirt-poor and lead a generally filthy lifestyle while being one witch away from horrible death due to a lack of doctors who don't wear pointy hats. I mean, they seem reasonably happy but they're exactly the kind of place young people go to the big city to get away from.
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May 21, 2017 00:34
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Rand Brittain posted:People in Lancre are also dirt-poor and lead a generally filthy lifestyle while being one witch away from horrible death due to a lack of doctors who don't wear pointy hats. There's no actual signs of poverty in Lancre, they don't have money but they don't really use it either. They largely exist on a barter economy and are doing perfectly fine. They also seem to have some fairly desirable exports (lancre foods or goods are mentioned in other places), but are largely self-sufficient only importing luxury goods like the stuff at the castle. They are rural, but not poor. AM on the other hand has actual poverty, like people going hungry or stealing to survive poverty. It's got wealth too, but not for the average citizen. As far as filthy...Ankh-Morepork has a literal river of poo poo running through it. Lancre living is far, far more hygenic than anything in AM and the Witches are presented as far better at medicine than anyone available in AM (wizards are worthless at it and doctors in general are presented as usually worse than no assistance at all). It is certainly not exciting (except when a novel is currently happening) and you can't get rich there...but you're also less likely to be stabbed. So you know...good with the bad. Lancre is also free from Dibblers. oriongates fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 00:46
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Ambi posted:Take Northern Ireland for example, soft green grass, rolling hills, free range horses and livestock, rainbows and leprechauns daily, real high rates of depression and anxiety. leprechauns aren't real, OP
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May 21, 2017 00:49
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Cease to Hope posted:leprechauns aren't real, OP Banality Intensifies
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May 21, 2017 00:59
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neaden posted:Banality Intensifies there's something deeply ironic about a reddit meme adapted to call out supposed banality.
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May 21, 2017 01:17
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Elfface posted:Fake edit: I can never remember all the IRC and Discord channels TG generates... is there any reason they're not just in a stickied post? Beef
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May 21, 2017 02:45
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I wouldn't necessarily call it beef. It's more a collection of one sided animosity.
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May 21, 2017 02:59
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Cease to Hope posted:leprechauns aren't real, OP so that WAS just an irish little person stealing my gold...
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May 21, 2017 03:08
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oriongates posted:Witches are presented as far better at medicine than anyone available in AM (wizards are worthless at it and doctors in general are presented as usually worse than no assistance at all). To be fair, Dr Lawn is pretty good. By the later books other doctors are starting to learn from him, so medicine is probably modernising like everything else was at the end. 
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May 21, 2017 03:16
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Kwyndig posted:I wouldn't necessarily call it beef. It's more a collection of one sided animosity. No no, it was definitely beef. Loose beef.
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May 21, 2017 03:39
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Elfface posted:Fake edit: I can never remember all the IRC and Discord channels TG generates... is there any reason they're not just in a stickied post? I'd make a post but listing two Discords is weird. IRC is a little more complicated because there are a ton of different rooms for different games and purposes, but most of them are on SynIRC I think.
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May 21, 2017 03:54
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you all had a chance to join my perfect beef free discord 
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May 21, 2017 03:59
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no, the beef must collect and compound on itself, creating a solid and impassable blockage. what I'm saying is model social cliques on my colon.
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May 21, 2017 04:01
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did someone say free beef
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May 21, 2017 04:25
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I love that even in this tiny, incestuous hobby we can't help but factionalize further.
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May 21, 2017 04:45
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Zurui posted:I love that even in this tiny, incestuous hobby we can't help but factionalize further.
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May 21, 2017 06:36
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Gobbeldygook posted:Leftist splits! SA has two movie forums possibly solely because of one CineD poster. SMG is a really, really bad poster though
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May 21, 2017 06:37
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:25 |
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If you lock a nerd in a locker long enough, you'll end up with two competing fandoms inside.
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May 21, 2017 06:37
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