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GoldfishStew posted:What you are failing to realize is that there is a difference between killing someone to get them out of the way and giving someone you love a long, drawn out, incredibly painful death. He didn't just kill her. He tortured her. Speaking as someone whose own mother died of a brain tumor, if given the choice, I'd take the tumor over an instant death. It's bad, and it's very bad near the end, but it's better than instant oblivion. You get time with the people you love and you get time to say goodbye. Of course it would be an awful thing to inflict on someone, but you're way off-base on this idea that it was a worse thing to do to her than just killing her outright. What Ego did was indefensible, but you're attempting to frame it as being qualitatively distinct from all the indefensible things that people who actually do love each other do to each other, and it doesn't hold up. She got some time to see her son grow up. Peter built his life around the music she shared with him, which she never would have gotten to do if Ego had just killed her instantly. What Ego did to her was grotesque, but it was, in fact, better than nothing.
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May 21, 2017 19:23
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I have a really easy time excepting that Ego was conflicted, and wanted a slow burn kill so Peter would be born and raised some. I have a harder time understanding how Ego decided to come up with a human form all on his own. Did I understand that scene correctly? He made it sound like he just happened to design himself as a human and then discovered Earth.
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May 21, 2017 20:55
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The Dave posted:I have a harder time understanding how Ego decided to come up with a human form all on his own. Did I understand that scene correctly? He made it sound like he just happened to design himself as a human and then discovered Earth. Considering the presentation implies he not only independently developed the human form, but 70s fashion, I think we can assume he was simplifying things for Peter's benefit. And as, you know, a joke.
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May 21, 2017 21:07
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Sir Kodiak posted:Considering the presentation implies he not only independently developed the human form, but 70s fashion, I think we can assume he was simplifying things for Peter's benefit. And as, you know, a joke. I actually do prefer to think that he really did just independently come up with "1970's Kurt Russell" as the ideal corporeal form despite having no prior contact with or knowledge of Earth.
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May 21, 2017 21:18
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Well as, a joke, it wasn't funny.
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May 21, 2017 21:18
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The Dave posted:Well as, a joke, it wasn't funny. I found 1970s Kurt Russell meeting a little alien girl amusing.
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May 21, 2017 21:21
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GoldfishStew posted:You fools. There is a difference between killing someone and torturing them. Yeah, emotional and physical abuse are way more common than homicide.
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May 21, 2017 22:16
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To preface: I didn't like this movie all that much aside from the occasional bits of great humor. I thought a lot of the biggest beats of the film felt very forced, chief among them the idea that we're supposed to now think of the guy who kidnapped and subsequently threatened to murder Peter for years as a child, to whom Peter showed nothing but contempt and frustration in the first film...is supposed to be some sort of great father figure, much less some great guy that everyone actually loved. That being said: GoldfishStew posted:You fools. There is a difference between killing someone and torturing them. But he wasn't that person yet. He tortured and killed her specifically to prevent himself from becoming someone who wouldn't. Do you see? He was falling in love with her, and thereby had to do the one thing that would destroy that love. Also, don't think of Ego as capital-G God so much as think of him as Zeus. Zeus loved fooling around with mortals, he had a thousand mortal lovers and children. He did go out of his way to help and protect those lovers and children to a degree. But if they died? Even suffered? That was on them and not him, because mortals are the ones responsible for every terrible thing that happens to them while gods are never responsible for any of it (even if they are literally, directly responsible for it). If a god hurts mortals, the god is right to do so and the mortal probably did something to deserve it. The end. Also, what everyone else said vis a vis love not preventing you from hurting your loved ones.
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May 22, 2017 00:35
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BrianWilly I like your explanation. That's fine with me. I don't think it is as good as a much earlier poster who said Ego could have got everything he wanted by, you know, just staying there and being a dad to Peter, but I guess he was off space loving and upping his probability of god babies.
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May 22, 2017 01:07
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If he didn't go back to his planet, the light would've burnt out and he would've been mortal. He does say this really quick in the film.
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May 22, 2017 01:09
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Zeus named his most famous bastard after his wife so she'd try really hard to kill him, because he needed a weapon. Heracles means "gift of Hera."
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May 22, 2017 01:09
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I heard him, Celtic. Maybe he could have made trips and been like a dad who makes business trips.
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May 22, 2017 01:12
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Ego's too busy fuckin for that. Fuckin across the universe.
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May 22, 2017 01:13
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BrianWilly posted:To preface: I didn't like this movie all that much aside from the occasional bits of great humor. I thought a lot of the biggest beats of the film felt very forced, chief among them the idea that we're supposed to now think of the guy who kidnapped and subsequently threatened to murder Peter for years as a child, to whom Peter showed nothing but contempt and frustration in the first film...is supposed to be some sort of great father figure, much less some great guy that everyone actually loved. Yondu was a lovely person, but he made sacrifices for Peter that Ego never would. I'm pretty sure he says something to the effect of "I've done too much bad poo poo to get an easy out".
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May 22, 2017 02:49
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Copypasting myself from elsewhere: I don't mind that the film shows that Yondu does care for Peter in his way, and vice versa, and having it all end on a desperately tragic note. It works! It's fine! But then they blow it up to, like, not just Peter's crew but also a bunch of ex-Ravagers who we've never seen and all Yondu's faceless friends and practically the entire bloody galaxy having some sort of technicolor viking funeral for the guy and it's like...look. Yondu was cool. But he's not that loving cool. And actually one of the reasons he was cool was because he was a bit of a rat bastard who know one liked that much...now they're trying to convince me that he's some kind of interstellar treasure who everyone's gonna miss? It would've worked so much better if they had just kept this grief more personal and microcosmic, like Peter's the only one who truly mourns him, and even then if it's kind of an unwanted, "I wish I didn't actually care about you but I do" grief.
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May 22, 2017 03:53
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Small, subtle emotional moments work really well in big budget sci-fi action comedies. \/\/\/ OK, fair point. poisonpill fucked around with this message at 05:10 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 04:15
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They definitely did in the first one. "You are the light of my life. My precious son. My little Star-Lord."
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May 22, 2017 04:55
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Yondu and the Ravagers embodied the ethos of the scum of galaxy saving the day better than the Guardians, so obviously they needed to die. Yondu gets the dignity of becoming more marketable before he has to go.BrianWilly posted:They definitely did in the first one. That ended up pretty comedic though. Turns out that Star-Lord's even a bigger manchild than he seemed.
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May 22, 2017 06:02
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BrianWilly posted:Copypasting myself from elsewhere: I don't mind that the film shows that Yondu does care for Peter in his way, and vice versa, and having it all end on a desperately tragic note. It works! It's fine! But then they blow it up to, like, not just Peter's crew but also a bunch of ex-Ravagers who we've never seen and all Yondu's faceless friends and practically the entire bloody galaxy having some sort of technicolor viking funeral for the guy and it's like...look. Yondu was cool. But he's not that loving cool. And actually one of the reasons he was cool was because he was a bit of a rat bastard who know one liked that much...now they're trying to convince me that he's some kind of interstellar treasure who everyone's gonna miss? It would've worked so much better if they had just kept this grief more personal and microcosmic, like Peter's the only one who truly mourns him, and even then if it's kind of an unwanted, "I wish I didn't actually care about you but I do" grief. They set up the funeral pretty early in the movie. Stallone outright states the technicolor viking funeral is part of their Ravager tradition. All the ships that show up are the hundred or so other Ravager clans coming to pay their respects now that Yondu earned his way back into their good graces.
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May 22, 2017 06:36
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They also set up that by dealing in child trafficking and getting excommunicated, Yondu created a stain on the Ravagers' code of honor that made them mistrust each other and not hang out anymore, leading to their past 'glory' fading. So when they all get together after Yondu redeems himself, it's also a healing of the rift in their organization. The entire subplot isn't really necessary for the film as a whole but it adds some depth to Yondu's character arc and continues to paint the Guardians universe as a rich place full of weird groups and fun poo poo, instead of keeping it small and recycling the same stuff over and over like a Star Trek. The Ravagers are in the film for the same reason the Novas aren't. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 06:49 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 06:47
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So, uh, why couldn't Ego have moved Peter and his mom to live with him on Ego Planet? To be clear, I don't think this is a flaw with the film; any kind of reasoning Ego lays out for his actions is just an excuse for being an awful person who doesn't care about anything other than himself.
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May 22, 2017 14:49
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21 Muns posted:So, uh, why couldn't Ego have moved Peter and his mom to live with him on Ego Planet? To be clear, I don't think this is a flaw with the film; any kind of reasoning Ego lays out for his actions is just an excuse for being an awful person who doesn't care about anything other than himself. Her existence demotivated his plan because she was interesting enough he didnt want to make the entire universe himself, it didnt strictly matter where she was. Rather than ponder that idea, he killed her.
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May 22, 2017 15:31
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He also claimed that he didn't go back to Earth to pick up Peter himself because it was the planet where Peter's mom died, but he used Yondu for a lot of the kids. I kinda like the idea that he was lying about only falling in love with Peter's mom.
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May 22, 2017 15:42
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I believe that was what you were supposed to take away from that, yeah. The only thing different about Peter's situatio was he had the stuff and Yondu quit working for Ego at that point.
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May 22, 2017 15:47
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Barudak posted:I believe that was what you were supposed to take away from that, yeah. The only thing different about Peter's situatio was he had the stuff and Yondu quit working for Ego at that point. I think many people, myself included, believe that his love for Peter's mom was real, which is why Peter had 'the stuff'.
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May 22, 2017 15:49
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Theres nothing to support the idea that Ego loved Peters mom any differently than the other parents, except Ego who is established as lying and contorting truth to motivate his children. In fact, Id argue that Mantis acting as though everything was happening as it always did is extremely strong evidence that Egos spiel doesnt change from child to child.
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May 22, 2017 17:47
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Baronash posted:They set up the funeral pretty early in the movie. Stallone outright states the technicolor viking funeral is part of their Ravager tradition. All the ships that show up are the hundred or so other Ravager clans coming to pay their respects now that Yondu earned his way back into their good graces. Also he died in helping to save the universe, which is worth a big send-off regardless of how much he was personally liked or disliked. The Ravagers came to give him a Ravager funeral because Rocket got a hold of them and told them what Yondu did. It wasn't just because Yondu died, but what he did right before he died.
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May 22, 2017 17:51
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Barudak posted:Theres nothing to support the idea that Ego loved Peters mom any differently than the other parents, except Ego who is established as lying and contorting truth to motivate his children. Someone earlier asked for an example of where Ego actually lies. Does he?
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May 22, 2017 19:04
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Phylodox posted:Someone earlier asked for an example of where Ego actually lies. Does he? He certainly lied to Yondu about what happened to those kids.
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May 22, 2017 19:06
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I'd have to go back and watch it, but I know stretched the truth a bit (They never felt a thing), and he did tell some lies of omission, but I don't think he ever stated something false.
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May 22, 2017 19:08
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Lurdiak posted:He certainly lied to Yondu about what happened to those kids. Did he lie or just not tell him?
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May 22, 2017 20:31
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He said he never hurt them, which he stated was technically true cause their deaths were painless.
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May 22, 2017 20:34
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Sorry if this was covered and I missed it, but what made Peter special? All of Ego's kids couldn't hack it and died, but Peter was the exception. Something special about Earth?
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May 22, 2017 20:37
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Hobo Clown posted:Sorry if this was covered and I missed it, but what made Peter special? All of Ego's kids couldn't hack it and died, but Peter was the exception. Something special about Earth? Either that Ego really loved Meredith, or just chance. Or the possibility that celestials have visited Earth before and so humans were more compatible with Ego.
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May 22, 2017 20:40
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I... enjoyed... this movie 
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May 22, 2017 21:18
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Dr. Tim Whatley posted:I... enjoyed... this movie Nothing wrong with some light fluff entertainment if you actually find it entertaining. I like the GOTG movies too and think they're the best MCU movies. Hot take, I know. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 21:38
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Phylodox posted:Someone earlier asked for an example of where Ego actually lies. Does he? Ego is a liar in the same sense that Obi-wan is a liar, he carefully chooses words and witholds information to be factually true from a certain point of view. He "never hurts the children" because he kills them instantly which Yondu rightfully thinks is horseshit. He "truly loved peters mom" but he kills her. He claims to care for peter, but again thats the power Peter has not who he is. He is, at minimum, extremely manipulative and as such theres no real reason to take anything he says at face value.
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May 22, 2017 21:48
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Hobo Clown posted:Sorry if this was covered and I missed it, but what made Peter special? Maybe he isn't and he just tested the others too soon.
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May 23, 2017 06:49
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Avalerion posted:Maybe he isn't and he just tested the others too soon. A ton of those looked like they couldn't play ball like Peter. Ego was massively disappointed!
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May 23, 2017 09:02
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Dr. Tim Whatley posted:I... enjoyed... this movie Movie was good. Not all the jokes landed but most did and the visual design was superb. Just as entertaining as the first one IMO.
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May 23, 2017 11:55
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