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Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Verranicus posted:

Lol, gently caress you if you think you should be able to use boost potions but still do the quests or whatever. You made your choice.

Meh, their loss if they don't want me to buy a bunch of job potions. I can just keep playing one or two jobs instead.

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Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Truga posted:

I just sprinted pulled poo poo as soon as I was in range to keep enochian up at times, it was silly and this is better :v:

They might as well just make Enochian not fall off or even not exist (F4/B4 still require, and fail to refresh, their respective astral/umbral state) and just have Polyglot automatically begin to stockpile the moment you land a Blizzard or Fire spell.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

I just want people to stop calling them potions, because they're obviously books.

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.

Ferrinus posted:

I actually don't like the thing where you can and therefore have to keep up astral/umbral forever by using Tranpose on cooldown, I'm used to being able to chill between pulls/boss phases.

Enochian has a 30 second cooldown and from the footage shown today, you keep your Foul charge ready if it drops. You probably won't have to transpose spam if you don't want to.

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Fister Roboto posted:

I just want people to stop calling them potions, because they're obviously books.
Drink your loving books

vOv
Feb 8, 2014

Thumbtacks posted:

hey i was right

:prepop:

Truga posted:

Flare is 260 potency aoe....


I'm really glad they made it so spamming transpose keeps a single stack up forever, so I can open dungeon aoe with fire 3, foul, flare, all swiftcasted.

Flare is effectively 468 because of AF3.

Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

I missed the letter, what's new with the best tank, paladin?

Note Block
May 14, 2007

nothing could fit so perfectly inside




Fun Shoe

Control Volume posted:

I missed the letter, what's new with the best tank, paladin?

You can RP even more now with huge flashy wings.

sword_man.gif
Apr 12, 2007

Fun Shoe

Control Volume posted:

I missed the letter, what's new with the best tank, paladin?

spammable aoe damage and a situational and probably not very useful ability to reduce party damage taken (that requires you to stand nearly right behind the paladin)

oh wait an actual very good thing is that magic damage is now blockable so presumably shelltron will work on all tankbusters

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!
Fun Shoe

Augus posted:

Someone give me a summary of the live letter, all I saw was a video showing off the new class UI and skills.

heres the notes i took, some of which may be wrong but :shrug:

code:
-getting rid of secondary lv15 class reqs for jobs (ie for pld you no longer need to get conj to 15 after glad to 30)
-lots of abilities switched to role actions (ie provoke is now a tank role action, protect a healer role, internal release a dps role, etc)
-some new role actions include giving 20% mp to another party member, pulling a party member to your position, ignoreing positional requirements for 15sec
-cleric stance is now a dps buff, not a stance toggle
-healer damage based on mnd now
-all jobs get a new hud gauge that shows job specific stuff (monks shows GL/stance/chakra, blm shows astral/umbral stacks, etc)
-job guages evolve as you level the job (it gets more parts as you get more skills)
-removal of unused/underused actions 
-automatic replacement of upgraded spells (stone1 -> stone2 -> stone3 -> stone4). one action bar slot to cast them all. will change appropratly when levelsynced
-parry stat is gone. replaced with tenacity stat. raises damage delt, reduces damage recieved. no longer have to take attack from front
-accuracy stat is gone. chance to hit is based on your level vs enemy. if player and enemy are at the same level and you hit head on, 100% hit rate. side back attacks might have higher hit rate. raid monsters levels arent much higher
-accuracy replaced with "direct hit" attribute, only on dps job equipement. they govern direct hits, which happen more often then crits but do less bonus damage. an attack may do both at once
-pieity is no longer a main attribute, now a sub attribute. only effects healers equipement. does same thing as before (raises max mp)
-tanks gain dps from the strength stat again
-accessories are now role locked
-pvp now accessable to anyone over lv 30. seperate hotbars for pvp. combos are now consoidated into single button
-story jumps are available. completes all MSQ quests. one for AAR (up to 2.55, $18) and one for HW (up to 3.56, $25). no job level restrictions
-job jumps are available. raises the level of a job to 60. available june 16. $25 per job. only one boost per account until 4.1. RDM and SAM are excluded



-BLM
--need to be under astral/umbral to activate enochian. it stays running as long as AF/UI is up
--if enochian is up for 30 sec, you get to cast foul (some big spell)
--skill rotation mostly the same
--looks like the cd on transpose is shorter than AF/UI
--can warp back to leylines quickly
--thunder and t3 are single target, t2 and t4 is aoe. 3 and 4 are upgrades 
-WAR
--no more wrath stacks, now gain inner beast (think WoW war rage)
--basic actions build inner beast bar, advanced actions (fell cleave) spend it
--general rotation the same
--showed 5 fell cleves in a row
--dash attack (like monks shoulder tackle)
--(the move formaly known as) inner beast and steel cyclone are merged into fell cleave and decimate 
-MNK
--basic rotation the same
--has move to extend GL time
--can syphon chakra from allies
-RDM
--chainspell allows you to cast 2 spells in a row, the second of which will cast instantly
--getting a crit with the second spell shortens cast times
--the job gauge shows black and white mana. different RDM spells fall under one of the two. casting a spell raise one or the other
--white/black ballance is important
--you want to raise both to activate "spellblade", a damaging move which reduces the guages
-SAM
--job guages are kenki guage (energy bulid up like war) and 3 sen guages
--action unlock different sen guages
--depending on which sen guage is unlocked, you can used different iaijutsu
--different iaijutsu may relock sen when used
--if all 3 sen are unlocked you get more powerful iaijutsu
-DRG
--rotations stays mostly the same
--botd is a trait now
--"gaze of the brood" allows additional actions
-DRK
--"black blood" action fills job "blood" guage. using skills depletes blood guage
-BRD
--no more cast times
--switching between songs now a part of rotation?
-SCH
--not many changes
--farrie can teather to a player to channel spells now
-NIN
--not many changes
--job guages shows huton timer and senki guage
--senki guage (scroll) increases with autoattack
--use specific actions to deplete guage, branching skills from there (looks like a quick cast circle?)
-MCH
--no more cast times
--job gauge shows "heat", actions have different effects depending on heat
--have a flamethrower move
-SMN
--accumlate "trance" state after every deadwyrm trance ending
--after 2 trance stacks can turn egi pet into bahumat for large damage
-WHM
--not many changes
--job guage shows "lillys". use them to shorten recast time or make other actions available
-AST
--not many changes
--job gauge shows drawn/held cards and their potency clearly
--has a new ability that places an effect on the field? changes with cards used?
-PLD
--shield blocks magical, as well as physical, damage now
--job gauge shows oath bar and which stance your in (shield/sword)
--aoe sword attack ability
--single target holy
--channeled aoe cover, allies in cone behind pld take less damage

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Paladins are stealing astrologian's idiot bubble.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
WAR: FELL CLEAVE FELL CLEAVE FELL CLEAVE FELL CLEAVE FELL CLEAVE FELL CLEAVE .... yeah, I'm not mothballing that anytime ever.
AST: Surprinsingly, the most uninteresting of the bunch? There was a thing that drew three cards? And a thing that put down a circle? But mostly it was just pretty.
BRD/MCH: Forgive me father, for I am plagued by temptation. MCH is what I played, but BRD is where I started. Do I put down the gun and pick up the bow once again?

Biggest takeaway: I appreciate the quality of life improvement that being able to keep building resource beyond the activation point offers.

Kuvo posted:

heres the notes i took, some of which may be wrong but :shrug:

-snip-

Oh cool, thanks for doing this. There are some things in here that I missed due to half-listening while working.

(Thank god FC/Dev are now the same button as IB/SC.)

Hm. With Parry now gone as a stat, does that mean it's strictly a mechanic? What happened to Raw Intuition, then, I wonder?

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 22, 2017

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Did they show the new primal mounts, or just talk about them?

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I hope it's possible to do a berserk sequence where every single move is fell cleave

i poop fire
Feb 21, 2011
Oh no which tank do I level first :ohdear:

Xenoveritas
May 9, 2010
Dinosaur Gum

Sinteres posted:

Did they show the new primal mounts, or just talk about them?

They showed a single dog mount with flames surrounding it at the start of the Live Letter.

Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

Office Surprise Store posted:

spammable aoe damage and blah blah blah blah magic damage is now blockable

Hella

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

Sinteres posted:

Did they show the new primal mounts, or just talk about them?

They showed them, but they had already showed them in the Benchmark.

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.

Office Surprise Store posted:

oh wait an actual very good thing is that magic damage is now blockable so presumably shelltron will work on all tankbusters

Don't forget that the wings thing gives them 100% block as long as they hold it. Any rapid-hit attack like Akh Morn can get bent.

Vitamean
May 31, 2012

Depending on how the PLD defense buff works, couldn't they just turn around and "cover" everyone who's behind the boss?

I doubt it'd work that way, but it would be wicked funny if it did.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:

Also, now that it's over, I'm pretty loving excited about basically every single thing they announced today; I was sorta on the fence about SB but now this next month is going to be utter torture

I've got to go to E3 that week and come back the day early access starts. Imagine waiting that whole week while forced to walk by Stormblood poo poo every day. :smith:

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.
Hot takes on the jobs I care about:

Ninja - My main since they launched, what they get seems pretty lame though! First off, a gauge that increases with auto attacks is just kinda boring and passive (although I noticed it jumped significantly with the use of mug so maybe not too bad). Foxclon showed off some single target attack while they were mucking about but the view on it was bad. The frog is neat I guess but sans actual ability text it really just seems like another katon. The nin in the video shukuchi'd twice in semi-rapid succession, wondering if that's actually a thing or if it was just done for effect in the video. The ability that let you cast a bunch of ninjutsus seems... hard to quantify currently. It could definitely be fun though.

Red Mage - Going to be a god drat hotbar nightmare. They showed off like 8 different spells and then another 4 melee abilities. Filling up a gauge with black and white mana and then burning it to do melee attacks seems like relatively neat gimmick, as does the whole cast a fast spell to instant cast a longer cast spell. Unfortunately for rdm their numbers looked like they end up spending drastically more time at ranged than in melee which makes sense since they are a ranged dps role, but that drags them out of my wheelhouse and into, "I will level it eventually." Was hoping for a more even split. Definitely the new title holder of coolest spell effects though.

Sam - gently caress this live letter because now I want to main swap to Sam and the last god drat thing I wanted to spend early access doing was potd grinding. They get their own run animation like nins do and the animations on the abilities they showed off today look real good. I will need to actually play them first for a bit though before really cementing onto a main swap because the stuff they showed today gives me essentially zero indication of what their rotation is actually like. They get some moves that fills up their katana bar, others that remove from it. Some moves fill up your little flower / moon / snow token slots and then other expel those for melee castbar stuff but I really need to see their poo poo to put together how it plays for real because as it currently stands it looks like you could just fill the 3 tokens and then iai strike, repeat ad nauseam and I really want to know why you wouldn't or what would compel you to do a weaker iai.

Other - The stat changes are great, and the pvp changes are incredibly interesting and real bold shift. I personally have no interest in moving the combo actions over into PvE as well but I wouldn't mind if they gave people the option to do that if they so desired. I've always found those systems boring but I am all about letting people play how they want, especially if it makes them less lousy.

Role Revamp system - Really on the fence about this. It's cool that it removes the need to level other jobs up because I know a couple people who quit over that and I might be able to get them back into the game. On the other hand, I am a no lifer and already had everything at 60 and so it isn't really particularly beneficial to me. What is especially not beneficial to me is going to have to blow skill slots on stuff I already had by default. Like going to need to spend a slot as a tank or melee dps on getting a god drat stun back is going to be pretty weak. While I certainly expected some of nin's utility to get spread around, I certainly didn't expect to not only have it spread but for it to also cost me a slot to get it back. Might not end up mattering in the long run since it will depend on what the other skills do and what jobs actually retain and lose but currently I am pretty neutral on it.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


accuracy getting trashed is extremely good

LITERALLY MY FETISH
Nov 11, 2010


Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

The gauges make me wonder if openers will change so that you have to give everyone a period to JO and get going before things like trick attack come out.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Failboattootoot posted:

Role Revamp system - Really on the fence about this. It's cool that it removes the need to level other jobs up because I know a couple people who quit over that and I might be able to get them back into the game. On the other hand, I am a no lifer and already had everything at 60 and so it isn't really particularly beneficial to me. What is especially not beneficial to me is going to have to blow skill slots on stuff I already had by default. Like going to need to spend a slot as a tank or melee dps on getting a god drat stun back is going to be pretty weak. While I certainly expected some of nin's utility to get spread around, I certainly didn't expect to not only have it spread but for it to also cost me a slot to get it back. Might not end up mattering in the long run since it will depend on what the other skills do and what jobs actually retain and lose but currently I am pretty neutral on it.

On the other hand, being able to replace the stun with something else on fights where there's nothing to stun is really cool. Also I'm going to bet that the new stun ability won't have a damage component.

Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012

Grimey Drawer

Xenoveritas posted:

They showed a single dog mount with flames surrounding it at the start of the Live Letter.

Please look forward to pupper parties.

A Great Big Bee!
Mar 8, 2007

Grimey Drawer
here is a summary of the changes to monk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpPW_Js00U

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

Fister Roboto posted:

On the other hand, being able to replace the stun with something else on fights where there's nothing to stun is really cool. Also I'm going to bet that the new stun ability won't have a damage component.

But I am so lazy and don't want to have to be constantly bar fiddling to tailor my ability load out to current situations! :cry:

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Failboattootoot posted:

Hot takes on the jobs I care about :

Red Mage - Going to be a god drat hotbar nightmare. They showed off like 8 different spells and then another 4 melee abilities. Filling up a gauge with black and white mana and then burning it to do melee attacks seems like relatively neat gimmick, as does the whole cast a fast spell to instant cast a longer cast spell. Unfortunately for rdm their numbers looked like they end up spending drastically more time at ranged than in melee which makes sense since they are a ranged dps role, but that drags them out of my wheelhouse and into, "I will level it eventually." Was hoping for a more even split. Definitely the new title holder of coolest spell effects though.


I didn't get a chance to see any of the LL but I'll be watching RDM closely; it seems odd that you'd have to stay in melee range to use an attack that's only a fraction of your rotation. It'd be cool if that attack was a rush attack or something so that it would instantly close you into melee when you used it. Then you could cast spells like a normal mage and not have to worry too hard about staying in melee range.

That's just me wishing though I don't know what I'm talking about re: how the class is actually going to work. I hope I don't hate it, because RDM looks flashy af and I live for that nonsense

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
Hypothetical for BRD UI: Could it be that if you fulfill certain criteria, you get a pip, and if you get full pips, your song auto-refreshes? Only half-listening because work.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Failboattootoot posted:

But I am so lazy and don't want to have to be constantly bar fiddling to tailor my ability load out to current situations! :cry:

Yeah that'll be pretty annoying. Maybe they'll let you save presets, which is something I've already wanted for crafting for a long time.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


So here's my lame attempt to figure out what the Role Actions are

The Cast Role Action shown in the video are
Addle
Break
Drain
Division
Lucid Dream
Swiftcast
Mana Shift
Apocastasis
Surecast
Arise


Melee DPS are
Second Wind
Arm Graze
Leg Sweep
Division
Invigorate
Bloodbas
(?)
Goad
???
Clutch
Tulunorse
(?)

Healers are
Cleric Stance
Break
Protect
Esuna
Lucid Dream
Swiftcast
Eye For An Eye
Divine Seal
Surecast
???


Ranged DPS are
Second Wind
Foot Graze
Leg Graze
Swiftsong
(?)
Invigorate
Tactician
Refresh
Head Graze
Arm Graze
Barricade


And Tank gets
Rampart
Low Blow
Provoke
Convalescence
Predict
(?)
Reprisal
Awareness
Interject
Ultimatum
Shock


Additionally Role Action slots unlock at levels 12, 20, 32, 40, and 48.

So if I'm not totally wrong some quick takeaways.

It's interesting that the first Role Action unlocks at level 8, but you don't get proper slots for them until level 12. Maybe you'll automatically get your first role action equipped and then at level 12 be able to choose between your first and second?

A chunk of these seem to be a mix of "these are things you bring into specific fights" and "things everyone needs to have". Invigorate, Protect, Swiftcast, and Provoke are known quantities, and I suspect Lucid Dream is the MP version of Invigorate since its on both roles that use MP.

The level 48 Caster role action, Arise, is the FF spell that revives with Full HP in the rest of the series, so probably all Casters will now be getting a Summoner Style Resurrection as an option. Similarly everyone gets Apocastasis, which ups the chance somebody might slap it on.

I'm curious how some of the abilities that got shifted from Class/Job into role will end up looking like, especially ones that got significant boosts from class traits. Leg Sweep's cooldown was cut in half with one of the Lancer traits, and Rampart's effectiveness was doubled on Paladins, so I wonder what they'll look like when everyone in a role has them. I also wonder what will happen to moves like Steel Peak when Leg Sweep is baseline, or Shield Bash when all tanks have Low Blow.

Break is the spell that petrified enemies in other games. Maybe it'll be the non-role specific version of Sleep?

Was Cleric Stance's Japanese name always "Cursed Stance"?

I'm rather interested to see the level up chronology for some Jobs, especially Machinist considering the entire Graze line got yanked out of them. Still, I suspect they have to shove FLAMETHROWER in there somewhere.

Things I want to know what they do: Drain (self-explanatory, but for how much and how often? Is this the caster version of Second Wind?), Division (It's on both Caster and melee DPS, is this the new Quelling Strikes? Didn't they say they were changing it?), Predict (My experience from Super Robot Wars says that this can also be translated as "foresight", but this has a different icon from it), Interject (I'm guessing WoW's intercept Warrior move), Shock (This did super high damage in FF6 and 9), and obviously the stuff I can't read.

Did they say if the White Mage "Yank a dude to you" spell was a Role action or not? Because if it is it's probably the final one on the list I couldn't read.

Notably absent from this list: Virus. Doubly so because that's on the short list of CC actions that was actually mildly important beyond ones essential for class functioning. "Addle" has a very similar icon to it, maybe it's the new version of Virus?

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Failboattootoot posted:

Role Revamp system - Really on the fence about this. It's cool that it removes the need to level other jobs up because I know a couple people who quit over that and I might be able to get them back into the game. On the other hand, I am a no lifer and already had everything at 60 and so it isn't really particularly beneficial to me. What is especially not beneficial to me is going to have to blow skill slots on stuff I already had by default. Like going to need to spend a slot as a tank or melee dps on getting a god drat stun back is going to be pretty weak. While I certainly expected some of nin's utility to get spread around, I certainly didn't expect to not only have it spread but for it to also cost me a slot to get it back. Might not end up mattering in the long run since it will depend on what the other skills do and what jobs actually retain and lose but currently I am pretty neutral on it.

It's likely this is the source of their 'adjustments' (or nerfs) that they're doing. I've been getting a lot of mileage out of some cross class abilities and if I'm no longer able to take them it'd be sad (but understandable.)

Daeren
Aug 18, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED

Long, overly elaborate animations that ultimately don't actually do the job? :v:

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

Ainsley McTree posted:

I didn't get a chance to see any of the LL but I'll be watching RDM closely; it seems odd that you'd have to stay in melee range to use an attack that's only a fraction of your rotation. It'd be cool if that attack was a rush attack or something so that it would instantly close you into melee when you used it. Then you could cast spells like a normal mage and not have to worry too hard about staying in melee range.

That's just me wishing though I don't know what I'm talking about re: how the class is actually going to work. I hope I don't hate it, because RDM looks flashy af and I live for that nonsense

They have that. The 4ish melee abilities they had was a rush-in stab, a couple other flurry hits and then a repelling shot equivalent. I was hoping what they showed way back at the fanfest reveal would be a closer approximation to actual play which was casting 6-8 spells and then going into the fray. But in this live letter it looks like it'll actually be 12-16 spells before your gauge fills up and years of tabletop gaming have made me incredibly racist towards spellcasters so I lost all interest.

Fister Roboto posted:

Yeah that'll be pretty annoying. Maybe they'll let you save presets, which is something I've already wanted for crafting for a long time.

That would be a sweet QoL change.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

Ainsley McTree posted:

I didn't get a chance to see any of the LL but I'll be watching RDM closely; it seems odd that you'd have to stay in melee range to use an attack that's only a fraction of your rotation. It'd be cool if that attack was a rush attack or something so that it would instantly close you into melee when you used it. Then you could cast spells like a normal mage and not have to worry too hard about staying in melee range.

That's just me wishing though I don't know what I'm talking about re: how the class is actually going to work. I hope I don't hate it, because RDM looks flashy af and I live for that nonsense

Based on the job actions trailer, the first melee attack is a charge in, the last is a jump back.

Also one of their melee attacks is basically carving a giant letter Z into the dummy, so now I hope we get some options for broad-brimmed hats with domino masks built in.

HackensackBackpack
Aug 20, 2007

Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

Omnicrom posted:

Did they say if the White Mage "Yank a dude to you" spell was a Role action or not? Because if it is it's probably the final one on the list I couldn't read.

Notably absent from this list: Virus. Doubly so because that's on the short list of CC actions that was actually mildly important beyond ones essential for class functioning. "Addle" has a very similar icon to it, maybe it's the new version of Virus?

I'm pretty sure they did say Virus was becoming Addle. And yeah, the yanking ability is called Rescue and it's a healer role ability.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
The official job actions video, it is up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSdfPXFGuw0

1080p60, too, for all those frame-by-frame analyzing things.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Leofish posted:

I'm pretty sure they did say Virus was becoming Addle. And yeah, the yanking ability is called Rescue and it's a healer role ability.

Well that's good to hear. Addle generally lowered Magic, so I guess all casters get their own personal Supervirus.

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staplegun
Sep 21, 2003

They made white mage... even easier? Cleric stance was literally the only thing that put any challenge in the class. I don't know how someone could play it for even a short amount of time and feel overwhelmed when all of the buttons might as well be labeled "heal hps". There's now zero risk when playing the class and it's going to be boring as hell.

Well, guess this is as good incentive as any to switch over to SCH/AST. At least they get to push somewhat interesting buttons sometimes?

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