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Accretionist posted:Don't joke. The Paris Agreement could push Rime's suicide back by weeks Rime is one of the worst posters in this thread. All he does is post about how hopeless everything is but if someone else does the same and dares to mention a non-Western country, he instantly arrives to accuse them off jerking off to brown people dying. It's impossible for him to understand that there are non-rich, non-white people posting in this thread. Indeed, some of us are painfully aware the West isn't going to get off scot-free. In his mind we are all part of the 1% cackling over NYT articles about thousands of South Asians dying in heat waves or some poo poo and he's the hero asserting his moral superiority because he doesn't care anymore.
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May 25, 2017 01:42
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Me, I live in a third world country that's gonna get hosed in the rear end. 2m sea level rise is enough to make 70% of the province my family has lived in for generations uninhabitable.
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May 25, 2017 01:56
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Yeah man, I'm just a rich as poo poo white retard who's sitting here  it over all you fools and your climate optimism while I play russian roulette on the regular. Fo' Sho'.
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May 25, 2017 02:24
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Conspiratiorist posted:Me, I live in a third world country that's gonna get hosed in the rear end. You should move to America. Or maybe Canada.
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May 25, 2017 02:29
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Potato Salad posted:by not just letting the status quo continue with gradual energy/GDP decoupling this is not a thing, economic activity is energy expenditure
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May 25, 2017 03:33
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StabbinHobo posted:this is not a thing, economic activity is energy expenditure It is a thing in; in so far as different countries have a different rate of CO2e per GDP. More energy efficient countries need less CO2e per GDP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ratio_of_GDP_to_carbon_dioxide_emissions As an example, Switzerland gets 4 times the economic value per unit of CO2 than does the USA.
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May 25, 2017 04:06
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StabbinHobo posted:this is not a thing, economic activity is energy expenditure https://thinkprogress.org/u-s-economic-growth-decouples-from-both-energy-and-electricity-use-16ae78732e59 It's ThinkProgress, so take it with a grain of salt. However, in the two minutes I'm spending phone posting this, its enough to point to a trend. There is EPA / DoE literature on CO2 emissions, energy consumption, and GDP I can find tomorrow. Economic activity will always consume energy, but we (caveats: industrialized, developed nation) haven't appreciably increased energy consumption to grow our GDP in this decade. That GDP growth requires energy growth is something of an assumption. On the flip side, those nations that best adhere to the Paris Accord are dead Warsaw states whose compliance stems from post-Soviet collapse and literally closing their factories. Additionally, developing nations don't have the benefit of existing infrastructure, market velocity, and capital that is the gateway to powering a growing slice of industry and homes with with renewables.
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May 25, 2017 04:08
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Switching to a service economy that doesn't consume as much energy per GDP is fine and dandy when you've got a country elsewhere in the world taking care of the energy intensive resource extraction and manufacturing to meet your consumption demands.
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May 25, 2017 04:45
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Yeah, I'd actually be very interested in seeing evidence that we aren't simply exporting our energy demand and emissions elsewhere.
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May 25, 2017 04:56
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Potato Salad posted:I think I'm just going to straight-up read and participate in this thread as though it was only about climate science docs, questions, and answers. You loving political dropouts deserve this poo poo, and when you and I are facing severe consequences in the coming decades, I'm fine holding my head a little loving higher for having tried in vain, helpless political activism. For those who want political solutions this thread is really lovely. Here are some non-lovely threads: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800657 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3808020 Get out there, take some action, it may even have a net better effect on the environment than committing suicide.
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May 25, 2017 12:07
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Burt Buckle posted:You should move to America. Or maybe Canada. I am amazed by the levels of white Western privilege that made you think this was an acceptable suggestion, even ironically 'So your homeland's in danger of being wiped out by climate change? Abandon your roots and come to either of these capitalist shitholes where you'll be marginalised and discriminated against, especially after the poo poo hits the fan!' loving hell this thread
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May 25, 2017 12:50
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Also trump would kick you out anyway, even if you'd been here 40 years
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May 25, 2017 12:54
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, I'd actually be very interested in seeing evidence that we aren't simply exporting our energy demand and emissions elsewhere. This was a decent account of how such a decoupling might be measured.
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May 25, 2017 13:45
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Venomous posted:I am amazed by the levels of white Western privilege that made you think this was an acceptable suggestion, even ironically Its pragmatic advice for effectively everyone in the third world. Take it or leave it. Also, I recommend new Zealand.
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May 25, 2017 14:41
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BattleMoose posted:It is a thing in; in so far as different countries have a different rate of CO2e per GDP. More energy efficient countries need less CO2e per GDP. this whole worldview of nation states competing for gdp statistics is the root of the problem. its one planet. all of these numbers are just shuffling around the hot potato. Potato Salad posted:There is EPA / DoE literature on CO2 emissions, energy consumption, and GDP I can find tomorrow. Economic activity will always consume energy, but we (caveats: industrialized, developed nation) haven't appreciably increased energy consumption to grow our GDP in this decade. That GDP growth requires energy growth is something of an assumption. Paradoxish posted:Yeah, I'd actually be very interested in seeing evidence that we aren't simply exporting our energy demand and emissions elsewhere. Conspiratiorist posted:Switching to a service economy that doesn't consume as much energy per GDP is fine and dandy when you've got a country elsewhere in the world taking care of the energy intensive resource extraction and manufacturing to meet your consumption demands.
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May 25, 2017 17:45
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If an economy reduced the carbon intensity of electricity generation or transportation, that is carbon/growth decoupling. Likewise, energy efficiency is another example of real-world energy use/growth decoupling that we have empirical evidence exists.
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May 25, 2017 19:53
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True, but there is only one carbon budget and it doesn't care about how efficient your emissions are.
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May 25, 2017 20:15
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BattleMoose posted:Its pragmatic advice for effectively everyone in the third world. Take it or leave it. Also, I recommend new Zealand. It's quite possible that Sri Lankan agricultural GDP will rise significantly in a warmer world.  It'll be because cash crops are easier to grow and staple crops are harder. Also, Jaffna will vanish beneath the waves rather promptly, because northern Tamils haven't had enough trouble in their lives recently.
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May 25, 2017 20:19
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Mozi posted:True, but there is only one carbon budget and it doesn't care about how efficient your emissions are. But efficiency determines how much economic activity you can have within that budget. A ton of co2 equivalents goes a lot farther with efficiency than with waste. Switching economic activity from emissions from capital development and emissions from fuel to just emissions from capital development is the exact kind of decoupling we need to accelerate.
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May 25, 2017 22:14
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
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May 25, 2017 23:54
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The existence of a much disputed theory about feedback mechanisms in resource use efficiency doesn't actually respond to all the mechanisms of carbon decoupling. Even if Jevons is correct, that doesn't preclude decoupling through switching to non-carbon fuels for example. And it completely ignores the potential for regulatory restraints on resource consumption. If we set a carbon budget, effiency can help us have more economic activity under that budget, even if Jevons is correct.
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May 26, 2017 00:13
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It's quite possible that Sri Lankan agricultural GDP will rise significantly in a warmer world. Its up to everyone to make the best decisions they can for themselves.
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May 26, 2017 03:22
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BattleMoose posted:Its up to everyone to make the best decisions they can for themselves. So you're saying it's hopeless?
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May 26, 2017 03:31
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Coal India wins tax-cut boostquote:State-run Coal India Ltd, saddled with millions of tonnes of unsold coal, is expected to be the biggest beneficiary of a controversial government decision to more than halve the local sales tax on the fuel after a jump in local supplies. quote:"The government is mining so much coal, they would like that be used," Jindal Steel Chief Executive Ravi Uppal told Reuters, adding that it was only fair that thermal power companies were being given some relief when renewable companies were enjoying numerous government incentives. 
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May 26, 2017 03:55
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BattleMoose posted:Its pragmatic advice for effectively everyone in the third world. Take it or leave it. Also, I recommend new Zealand. Lol, guess how fast America & Canada would become 3rd world countries (well, the USA already kind of is) if everyone from those countries affected by climate change would just pack their bags and move there? It's not sustainable, you know. The countries would fall apart faster than you can say "carbon emission".
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May 26, 2017 06:02
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Lol, guess how fast America & Canada would become 3rd world countries (well, the USA already kind of is) if everyone from those countries affected by climate change would just pack their bags and move there? It's not sustainable, you know. The countries would fall apart faster than you can say "carbon emission". You clearly have no idea of how insanely difficult it is to emigrate to these countries. And it is getting continuously more difficult.
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May 26, 2017 06:05
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Venomous posted:I am amazed by the levels of white Western privilege that made you think this was an acceptable suggestion, even ironically I was just joking man.
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May 26, 2017 06:05
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Goon autism in this thread. Sarcasm is hard on the internet, but come on.
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May 26, 2017 06:38
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Conspiratiorist posted:Goon autism in this thread. Sarcasm is hard on the internet, but come on. Someone patented a thing called the sarcmarc and expected to be paid good money for it. And that man's name was Louis Kyanka. At family reunions lowtax takes to drinking pretty hard when they start saying, "why can't you be like cousin Louis?"
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May 26, 2017 08:03
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Burt Buckle posted:I was just joking man. nice joke anyway, throwing my hat in with the doomsayers because there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism and there never will be
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May 26, 2017 12:44
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The best part about everyone saying "GEEZ, take your MEDS brokebrained LOSER" is the incredibly obvious projection that accompanies itRime posted:TBH, the denialism on here regarding how bad things may or may not go for the West in the face of climate change probably offends me more than straight up climate denialism. I'd rather read Arkane, at least he didn't rely solely on magical thinking for his arguments against reality. These are the kinds of folks that think we can bomb the Middle East into dust and never suffer any blowback. They're not deep thinkers. Those climate refugees will just sorta disappear as the dirty American ~*labor aristocracy*~ continues to live a prosperous, amazing life! Potato Salad posted:in before "nice meltdown" and you continue to be a functionality apathetic sack of meat on this problem Stop pretending like you will ever do or have ever done anything that matters to the climate. The only thing you contribute to this thread is the result of your unbelievably strong cognitive dissonance. Please take your own advice and only post about climate data or whatever, your constant browbeating about how joining the US Socialist Party (hahah, sorry, I had to laugh even as I type this) is going to solve climate change is tiresome as gently caress. call to action fucked around with this message at 14:28 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 14:21
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"NO! My life is important. I will be remembered. My kids will have a good life. I believe in my country. Every problem is fixable, no matter how bad it is or how long we let it fester. We are good people, and our God (technology) wouldn't let us die!" - the denialists in this thread, screaming into the void
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May 26, 2017 14:36
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call to action posted:"NO! My life is important. I will be remembered. My kids will have a good life. I believe in my country. Every problem is fixable, no matter how bad it is or how long we let it fester. We are good people, and our God (technology) wouldn't let us die!" - the denialists in this thread, screaming into the void Yeah? But I mean these are the essential myths that americans are taught from birth so good luck arguing with most of the thread's entire upbringing my dude.
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May 26, 2017 17:09
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Venomous posted:Anyway, throwing my hat in with the doomsayers because there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism and there never will be Then start a revolution to overthrow the system. drat, this isn't that hard people.
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May 26, 2017 17:22
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So if we do nothing, then we're just a bunch of inept whiners that will never amount to anything. If we try to do something, it won't matter anyway because it's too late and the system has made it impossible to do anything and it all needed to be done whatever long time ago. This is some fuckin Arjuna and Krishna poo poo.
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May 26, 2017 23:03
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Star Man posted:So if we do nothing, then we're just a bunch of inept whiners that will never amount to anything. If we try to do something, it won't matter anyway because it's too late and the system has made it impossible to do anything and it all needed to be done whatever long time ago. I mean, that's kinda the dilemma of a man stranded in the Atlantic after his boat sank: "If I stop treading water, that's no better than suicide, but I'm gonna loving die regardless." The metaphor kinda falls apart at the end. Death is binary; however, there may end up being a world of difference between +5C and +10C. AR6 cannot come soon enough. More paleo models are adjusting for the inclusion of Greenland ice pack melt, and it'll be interesting to see if the 3.1mm/year figure someone brought up earlier holds muster. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 23:16 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 23:12
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The meaning of life is to procreate and do things that feel good but none of it really matters. Who would have guessed?
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May 26, 2017 23:15
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Shifty Nipples posted:The meaning of life is to procreate and do things that feel good but none of it really matters. Why thank you, Camut.
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May 26, 2017 23:31
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Star Man posted:So if we do nothing, then we're just a bunch of inept whiners that will never amount to anything. If we try to do something, it won't matter anyway because it's too late and the system has made it impossible to do anything and it all needed to be done whatever long time ago. There's some ethical value in, you know, being correct and not delusional. In the long run, the cynical, hard-edged response will serve our descendants more than pussyfooting magical thinking.
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May 26, 2017 23:34
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TildeATH posted:There's some ethical value in, you know, being correct and not delusional. In the long run, the cynical, hard-edged response will serve our descendants more than pussyfooting magical thinking. Then what's an example of a useful cynical, hard-edged response? Is it armed revolution? Is it population control through violence so that whatever the maximum threshold of a sustainable population is can be met? Is it radical change of how we live so that humanity and any other life can get through the impending environmental crisis?
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May 26, 2017 23:40
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