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Potato Salad posted:Is anything the GOP is pushing for going to eliminate food stamp programs though? Well there's the massive, direct, and specific cuts to food stamps present in every budget they've put forward and in any one they will actually sign
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May 25, 2017 05:10
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Killing everyone who votes for you is a bold strategy. Let's see how it pans out
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May 25, 2017 05:26
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uber_stoat posted:they can't even admit that they hosed up. loyal as dogs. gonna be grim as hell when the checks stop coming and these rural whitey towns all simultaneously drop dead. they'll just pile all the dead Trumpies into a ditch and set them on fire. too many to bury. First they will get very angry. That's the place accelerationism was accelerating to. Pity the Democrats will gently caress it up.
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May 25, 2017 08:04
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Hodgepodge posted:First they will get very angry. i, sadly, have 0 fucks to give...
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May 25, 2017 08:38
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Lindsey O. Graham posted:i, sadly, have 0 fucks to give... Literally, Lindsay Graham's official position https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/867492894948696064 "Whatever healthcare is hard, just kill em all I guess"
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May 25, 2017 09:03
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VitalSigns posted:Literally, Lindsay Graham's official position you are not wrong, for i have no fucks to give, and when given the opportunity, i will do what is necessary, what is vile
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May 25, 2017 10:04
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quote:Pastor Owens has made it his life's mission to lift people out of poverty. He runs the Kentucky Mountain Mission, which has a bowling alley and gym where a lot of teens hang out after school. He can see both sides of the debate on government aid. Pastor is his first name and not his title, right? Because I'm pretty sure "gently caress the poor" wasn't one of Jesus' lessons. How dare poor people get dependent on being able to live.
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May 25, 2017 12:26
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Randalor posted:Pastor is his first name and not his title, right? Because I'm pretty sure "gently caress the poor" wasn't one of Jesus' lessons. How dare poor people get dependent on being able to live. Jesus created means tested welfare
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May 25, 2017 15:27
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pastor owens is a bad christian
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May 25, 2017 23:24
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as funny as dead rural GOP voters sounds we all know in our hearts what will really happen. the dedicated alt-right fascists will run for office on welfare for white ppl only. and they'll win bigly.
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May 26, 2017 05:32
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:as funny as dead rural GOP voters sounds we all know in our hearts what will really happen. the dedicated alt-right fascists will run for office on welfare for white ppl only. and they'll win bigly. 
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May 26, 2017 06:19
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They'll never say it's for white people only. They'll just run on welfare and minority death.
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May 26, 2017 07:30
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Hodgepodge posted:They'll never say it's for white people only. They'll just run on welfare and minority death. well, that's a given
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May 26, 2017 08:16
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Hodgepodge posted:They'll never say it's for white people only. They'll just run on welfare and minority death. It's going to be really strange over the next couple of years to see the cycle repeat: the racism of cutting welfare, the realization of their own welfare being included, the rage at their ideas of white supremacy being neutered because skin color is just a way of Republicans having the poor eliminate themselves, and then a bunch of people going into white supremacy because their parents died poor and destitute while 'all of those <insert slur here> are riding around in their Caddies while my good, honest, hardworking parents died!' While ignoring that their parents were on government programs their politics eliminated out of racism, but never mind that. In a way, it is a beautiful scam: you take people who treasure ignorance and you trap them in a cycle where they have no way out of it because they would have to go against that same everpresent ignorance. I mean eventually it will burn itself out but not before we get a lot of tearful speeches that are basically idiots cutting off their own nose to spite their face but can't see it because their entire worldview, from religion to politics, is basically so racist that they would end themselves instead of question it. I must hand it to Republicans: their hatred is something to behold. They're ugly human beings who don't deserve human rights, but holy poo poo do they plan well.
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May 26, 2017 15:08
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:as funny as dead rural GOP voters sounds we all know in our hearts what will really happen. the dedicated alt-right fascists will run for office on welfare for white ppl only. and they'll win bigly. you're describing the 2016 election which already happened
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May 26, 2017 15:13
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:as funny as dead rural GOP voters sounds we all know in our hearts what will really happen. the dedicated alt-right fascists will run for office on welfare for white ppl only. and they'll win bigly. This is what the right chose to hear in 2016
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May 26, 2017 15:46
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:as funny as dead rural GOP voters sounds we all know in our hearts what will really happen. the dedicated alt-right fascists will run for office on welfare for white ppl only. and they'll win bigly. No one in the alt right has anything even approaching charisma. But my god, if they ever develop their own alt right Obama, we're doomed
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May 26, 2017 15:51
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A lot of people only voted for the New Deal when they had been convinced it would largely exclude minorities through a variety of means
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May 26, 2017 16:11
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:It's going to be really strange over the next couple of years to see the cycle repeat: the racism of cutting welfare, the realization of their own welfare being included, the rage at their ideas of white supremacy being neutered because skin color is just a way of Republicans having the poor eliminate themselves, and then a bunch of people going into white supremacy because their parents died poor and destitute while 'all of those <insert slur here> are riding around in their Caddies while my good, honest, hardworking parents died!' While ignoring that their parents were on government programs their politics eliminated out of racism, but never mind that. Republicans who make more than $50,000/year don't care about social welfare programs, and they tend to vote more often than poor people of any ideology. I think the left hasn't figured out that there are simply many more middle-class conservatives who just don't wanna pay taxes for a more robust social welfare system than they think there are. Why should they? They have insurance with their job already.
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May 26, 2017 16:43
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Republicans who make more than $50,000/year don't care about social welfare programs, and they tend to vote more often than poor people of any ideology. I think the left hasn't figured out that there are simply many more middle-class conservatives who just don't wanna pay taxes for a more robust social welfare system than they think there are. Why should they? They have insurance with their job already. The Left has, libs haven't. It's infuriating that every piece of data showing that Trump's real support base was in the middle classes still hasn't sunk in to the Democratic mindset. They'd still rather chase suburban Republican moms than court the poor.
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May 26, 2017 18:21
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uber_stoat posted:they can't even admit that they hosed up. loyal as dogs. gonna be grim as hell when the checks stop coming and these rural whitey towns all simultaneously drop dead. they'll just pile all the dead Trumpies into a ditch and set them on fire. too many to bury. I can't wait for the return of Lovecraft-style isolated rural towns that turn into slaughter traps for anybody with the bad luck to try and travel through them, because murdering travelers is the only way anyone in town can find income or eat
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May 26, 2017 19:00
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Liberals taste the best. Grass-fed meat.
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May 26, 2017 19:09
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Badger of Basra posted:you're describing the 2016 election which already happened nope, it's what they thought they were getting but it's not what they got. when trump finally burns out even with his base, the pepes will point out that he is a wealthy new york elite with a jewish branch of his family tree. the richard spencers of the heartland will get a major credibility bump Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Left has, libs haven't. off topic, but it's fascinating to me that (in US politics) "liberal" has gone from mostly used by conservatives to mean too far left, to a perjorative used on the left to mean (near as I can tell) what used to be called neoliberal or limousine liberal? what's the current political hierarchy for these terms: leftist, liberal, neoliberal, centrist, third way, progressive, blue dog, marxist, socialist, communist
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May 26, 2017 21:20
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:off topic, but it's fascinating to me that (in US politics) "liberal" has gone from mostly used by conservatives to mean too far left, to a perjorative used on the left to mean (near as I can tell) what used to be called neoliberal or limousine liberal? what's the current political hierarchy for these terms: American political discourse is so jumbled and toxic, you pretty much just have to hope that people know what you mean in context.
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May 26, 2017 21:41
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yeah gotta mostly look at it in context, but I tend to take it to mean the specific flavor of neoliberalism that is currently popular with the Democratic Party elite and that seems to be how most people I run into use it nowadays.
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May 26, 2017 21:58
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Here's how I'd place them:quote:marxist / communist
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May 26, 2017 22:02
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I'd have flipped the last two, but pretty much spot on.
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May 26, 2017 22:09
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Freaking Crumbum posted:I can't wait for the return of Lovecraft-style isolated rural towns that turn into slaughter traps for anybody with the bad luck to try and travel through them, because murdering travelers is the only way anyone in town can find income or eat
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May 26, 2017 22:27
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pushpins posted:If anyone catches the /pol/ livestream of a MAGA hat wearing local eviscerating me in his basement, please post "Bernie would have won" in the comments tia Alternately, buy a gun.
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May 26, 2017 22:37
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:off topic, but it's fascinating to me that (in US politics) "liberal" has gone from mostly used by conservatives to mean too far left, to a perjorative used on the left to mean (near as I can tell) what used to be called neoliberal or limousine liberal? what's the current political hierarchy for these terms: It's partly a product of criticism of the classical liberal position, as opposed to communism/socialism on the left or protectionist conservatism on the right. Economically, there was a time when conservatism was associated with a position to the left of liberals, whose ideology was pro-capital and free trade and against economic nationalism. Classical liberalism hasn't really changed much, it was just conflated with socialism by both sides.
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May 26, 2017 22:52
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Azathoth posted:Here's how I'd place them: interesting, bc 10-15 years ago, my understanding was that "progressive" was a rebrand of "liberal" which was preferred bc that term had become too loaded from decades of conservative attack (akin to "feminist" and probably "social justice" is heading that way now) i also remember warning a conservative in 2008 that if they kept derisively calling obama a socialist, then soon enough ppl would start to be ok with socialism  Hodgepodge posted:It's partly a product of criticism of the classical liberal position, as opposed to communism/socialism on the left or protectionist conservatism on the right. Economically, there was a time when conservatism was associated with a position to the left of liberals, whose ideology was pro-capital and free trade and against economic nationalism. Classical liberalism hasn't really changed much, it was just conflated with socialism by both sides. gotcha, you're talking about conservative isolationism pre-ww2, etc.. maybe good term for academic talk but not great for communicating to a mass audience today imo. tho maybe in another 10 years it will circle around given current trends
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May 26, 2017 23:16
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Left has, libs haven't. It's infuriating that every piece of data showing that Trump's real support base was in the middle classes still hasn't sunk in to the Democratic mindset. They'd still rather chase suburban Republican moms than court the poor. Let's talk about the title of this thread then. Is it even relevant? I feel like the news likes to tout these one-off stories centered on poor Trump voters, but there are millions of conservatives out there who are far and away not in the same economic state of existence. And they seem almost divinely immune to Overton windows and "pendulums". Even pro-life Democrats like Heath Mello can't martial their votes.
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May 26, 2017 23:37
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I remember when progressive was the scary left slur before socialist caught on
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May 26, 2017 23:39
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Hodgepodge posted:Classical liberalism hasn't really changed much, it was just conflated with socialism by both sides. I'd argue that classical liberalism is under attack from those further left as being neoliberal in the sense that Bush and Regan were neoliberal/neocon. Take the following with a grain of salt, but at least for a rough estimation, the following image from the Vote 1 app that was marginally popular last Fall is okay.  Attacks on US classical liberals and their platform coming from the left have two characteristics that I can identify. The first is "Dems are corporate shills," and the second is "There are no reasons to vote for Democrats." The latter seems to imply a viewpoint that there's functionally no difference between a Dem and a Rep in federal office, as though they were just Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. That rhetorically tethers their perception of the US Democrats around the region of Conservatism/Neo-Liberalism/Neo-Conservatism. The former, "Dems are corporate shills," probably narrows that region down to the right, framing the Dem party as neoliberal in action-- a party that only pays lip service to the social democracy / social liberalism in the text of the official 2016 DNC platform. Potato Salad has issued a correction as of 23:53 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 23:51
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Let's talk about the title of this thread then. Is it even relevant? I feel like the news likes to tout these one-off stories centered on poor Trump voters, but there are millions of conservatives out there who are far and away not in the same economic state of existence. And they seem almost divinely immune to Overton windows and "pendulums". Even pro-life Democrats like Heath Mello can't martial their votes. Well why would they? Republicans always offer them a better deal in terms of their race and class interests. One of the consequences of having a liberal constitution like the United States does, is that it creates rigid barriers between personal, political, and business lives. It wouldn't matter how reactionary the Republican party becomes if you're rich enough, because all that money will insulate you from right wing dictates in your personal life. What does it matter if abortion access is heavily restricted in your state? You could buy your daughter, wife, or mistress a plane ticket to Canada or Europe and have it done there.
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May 27, 2017 00:11
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:interesting, bc 10-15 years ago, my understanding was that "progressive" was a rebrand of "liberal" which was preferred bc that term had become too loaded from decades of conservative attack (akin to "feminist" and probably "social justice" is heading that way now) historically, the term progressive has been all over the place, but when I think of it, i tend to associate it with a kind of populist left-of-center ethos. now granted i'm from minnesota, and our local democratic party is officially the "democrat farmer laborer party" (because the democrat party and the farmer-laborer party merged way back when) and a lot of that goes back to robert la follette and his movement, so my perspective is very much informed by that particular working class version of progressivism. a lot of people would associate it with teddy roosevelt or, to a lesser extent, fdr's new deal politics as well, and i think there's common threads in all of those to draw from in calling something or someone "progressive". i personally like the progressive label because the original progressive movement from the late 19th and early 20th century was driven by the problems that gilded age capitalism brought to the average person, and we're now experiencing something similar with the excesses of wall st. and multinational corporations run amok, and so i identify with it because it provides me with a way to be to the left of bullshit neoliberal (read: republican) economic bullshit without going full socialist (which, frankly, i'm not and i wouldn't insult true socialists by co-opting their label)
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May 27, 2017 00:56
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/868261082653229056
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May 27, 2017 01:28
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Azathoth posted:i personally like the progressive label because the original progressive movement from the late 19th and early 20th century was driven by the problems that gilded age capitalism brought to the average person, and we're now experiencing something similar with the excesses of wall st. and multinational corporations run amok, and so i identify with it because it provides me with a way to be to the left of bullshit neoliberal (read: republican) economic bullshit without going full socialist (which, frankly, i'm not and i wouldn't insult true socialists by co-opting their label) this describes my politics too, but it's hard to be bullish on 'progress' these days :/
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May 27, 2017 02:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:if you're rich enough, because all that money will insulate you from right wing dictates in your personal life I think this is a pretty good description of what the current national dialogue means when using the term "liberal". people that might really mean well and want to help out their fellows, but at the end of the day they have next-to-no skin in the game, beyond whatever anecdotal, personal experiences they've accumulated (i.e. i have a gay brother so i'm slightly more involved in LBGT stuff, or my wife and i had an abortion when we were young so i'm slightly more passionate about PP, etc.). it's easy for people from these economic circumstances to espouse whatever social views they care to entertain, because at the end of the day, they are extremely unlikely to have to deal with the current reality of the social conditions in their city/county/state.
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May 27, 2017 02:45
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I really dislike talk on the left about how people who vote R are voting against their best interests partly because it's patronizing and partly because people who vote R are voting in their best interest, even the poor ones There are a lot of people who don't value the same things that the left values even if those things are objectively more important to them. A lot of R voters prioritize things like evangelical culture wars and denying government services to the "wrong" people over personal betterment and that poo poo is rooted deep into their entire worldview. Leftists like the "Rs are just potential socialists who haven't been messaged to properly" idea because it's an easier pill to swallow than the idea that America is full of sociopaths that you need to overwhelm and marginalize if you ever want to have nice things
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May 27, 2017 02:49
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