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Fil5000 posted:Echoplex, did you say you'd left the show at this point? I only ask because that door lock looked like something out of Chocabloc. Gotta say that the lab UI was a bit on the wonky side too. It looked more Wargames than Windows.
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May 27, 2017 20:48
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I try not to judge two parters until they are finished, but... That was not good. I thought last weeks was okay, but this weeks was verging on hungry earth bad. Maybe the next episode will make this one retroactively better, but I reckon at best it'll be "power through the first episode, the second is good".
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May 27, 2017 20:50
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I think it was an interesting take on "alien invasion", it is something you could only do with a simulation of the whole Earth. I wouldn't be itching to go and offer my consent after I'd just seen 4 people die for doing so, though.
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May 27, 2017 20:50
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It would have been hilarious if their plan had simply failed. 4 People would have given their consent. Certainly they had authority, which counts as a type of power. But there are 8 Billion other people who didn't give their consent. Collectively they have no authority - but a mob/army certainly has power. The 4 people who showed true love just feebly saying "We told them not to... they didn't listen."
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May 27, 2017 20:55
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So the moral of this episode is that GM research is Bad and Evil?
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May 27, 2017 20:59
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Carbon dioxide posted:So the moral of this episode is that GM research is Bad and Evil? "Don't go into work hungover when your job is to mix deadly chemicals"
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May 27, 2017 21:02
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"only people under 5 foot tall should be scientists"
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May 27, 2017 21:12
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Thankfully for my wallet, Big Finish's special this week is a Bernie Summerfield release.Carbon dioxide posted:So the moral of this episode is that GM research is Bad and Evil? I prefer,"Hungover dudes shouldn't be responsible for complex tasks"  Plavski posted:"Don't go into work hungover when your job is to mix deadly chemicals" Exactly BioEnchanted posted:It would have been hilarious if their plan had simply failed. 4 People would have given their consent. Certainly they had authority, which counts as a type of power. But there are 8 Billion other people who didn't give their consent. Collectively they have no authority - but a mob/army certainly has power. The 4 people who showed true love just feebly saying "We told them not to... they didn't listen." We've yet to see how it all plays out, but I do wonder if they're just paying lipservice to the idea, or if there is some actual kind of limitation (self-imposed or placed there by some other force) to when they can act. They seem to be sticklers for rules but go out of their way to set up systems that will allow them to circumnavigate them. They certainly have real, actual power (they healed the Doctor's eyes for example) but this idea of "consent" (of a very specific sort) feels more like an artificial restriction than something they naturally have. Somebody referred to them as gamers earlier and I do like the idea that they've simulated history so much that they've come to think of world conquest as a game and the people NPCs that need to trigger specific actions/dialogue for events to happen. The "consent" just feels like an excuse, justifying their actions to themselves, certainly they could have conquered the planet at any point. What they say about fear being inefficient is true, but that's surely going to be the status quo for the other 7 billion people who did NOT consent and they must know that.
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May 27, 2017 21:13
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SiKboy posted:I try not to judge two parters until they are finished, but... That was not good. I thought last weeks was okay, but this weeks was verging on hungry earth bad. Maybe the next episode will make this one retroactively better, but I reckon at best it'll be "power through the first episode, the second is good". We are into a 3 parter now. I also didn't like it, nothing made sense. Why did the UN need to get Bill? How did they pick the TARDIS up and put it on a plane without the doctor noticing? Doctor just magically latching onto bacteria as the cause of the impending doom for no reason and basing all of his efforts in that direction with no evidence. There could be dozens of other things that could cause a catastrophe. So the monks can just magically cure the doctor? How is the doctor and the scientist lady not effected by the super bacteria? Shonky as gently caress "lab" - an airlock thing that has no safety measures to prevent both doors being open, but can be shut when the lab is in lockdown mode, but can be opened with a dumb rear end combo lock that you get on luggage. Standard office ceiling tiles and vents. An enviroment where the scientists have to wear full body protection, but just choose to take the protection off (also the suits were not even sealed) and can also just bring coffee in. Scientist just sees plants dissolve into goo in front of him, reaches in a scoops it up in a jar and runs out into the non sealed part of the lab.
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May 27, 2017 21:33
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Mr Beens posted:We are into a 3 parter now. The Doctor is not from Earth - somehow the bacteria can kill everything earth based but not the Doctor, maybe some dumb biology handwave involving incompatible proteins or something... As for the scientist, she was wearing a Hazmat the whole time - she was hermetically protected from anything external. Remember her idiot partner took his helmet off exposing himself.
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May 27, 2017 21:44
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Mr Beens posted:Shonky as gently caress "lab" - an airlock thing that has no safety measures to prevent both doors being open, but can be shut when the lab is in lockdown mode, but can be opened with a dumb rear end combo lock that you get on luggage. Standard office ceiling tiles and vents. An enviroment where the scientists have to wear full body protection, but just choose to take the protection off (also the suits were not even sealed) and can also just bring coffee in. Scientist just sees plants dissolve into goo in front of him, reaches in a scoops it up in a jar and runs out into the non sealed part of the lab. Yeah, I agree that was really stupid. The doctor also made an explicit point about GM - even though most GM research is perfectly harmless, and the type that isn't causes financial troubles instead of biological ones. IF, and that's a big IF, some kind of lab germ ever escaped, it would be from a lab where they do research on bacteria/viruses in order to learn how to beat them with medicine. In almost all of these labs, they use strains of bacteria/viruses that have been made utterly and completely harmless. In the ones where they work with 'live' infectious bacteria, safety protocols are so incredibly strict that even with a mistake similar to what was shown in the episode, everything would easily be contained. In my opinion, this episode gives the message that biochem research is bad, and in that way suffers from the same problem as that other episode a season or so ago that gave off a terribly wrong message to all viewers.
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May 27, 2017 21:53
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I spent my evening in Manchester airport waiting to go home (do not recommend) so I'm only getting started on the iPlayer now. I must confess, the "in case of emergency, the Doctor is president of the world" thing hasn't really worked for me since it was introduced.
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May 27, 2017 22:28
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Carbon dioxide posted:Yeah, I agree that was really stupid. "We work with really nasty stuff here, so in an emergency we vent everything into the atmosphere" Also the scientists first response to a lock down is to leave the building. What? How?
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May 27, 2017 23:06
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"Carbon dioxide" posted:
It's on a nebulous intelligence watchlist, so it's possible the lab is doing shady/not up to code stuff. I'll admit the shoddy lab safety is a pretty huge plothole, but it's nowhere near as inherently wrong as "immigrants will murder you because of institutional injustice you have no control over".
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May 27, 2017 23:10
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Overall, that episode didn't really feel like much of anything.
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May 27, 2017 23:37
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Yeah, I'll be honest, why the Doctor didn't, you know, tell Bill he can regenerate. OK, maybe he's not 100% certain it'll go according to plan, but if it stops Bill from making a deal with the Meddling Monks, seems like an obvious solution. I'll be honest, not really all that impressed with the contrivance they had to get this ending. I mean, world's worst lab security protocols ever aside, I don't care hoe many specific simulations you run, how the gently caress do they somehow mange to predict the exact set of circumstances with one scientist getting her glasses broken, the other being hungover on the same day, and then as a result that specific compound being tested on that day?
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May 28, 2017 00:05
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Please don't let this guy write any more doctor who stories, this whole thing felt contrived as hell with so many people acting stupidly because the plot demanded it. World leaders just accepting what the aliens tell them is def going to happen with no reservations about how they might be lying, having authority to just hand over the world with no discussion with their own governments, not reacting at all to the UN guy getting dusted, the whole thing with lab protocols that the doctor is powerless to circumvent and needing to explode the place that totally wouldn't just send poo poo flying into the atmosphere anyway, the weird GMO message. The one part i really did like was the turning off every camera to see which they turned back on bit. That was clever.
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May 28, 2017 00:24
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"We need an exterior location shot to represent the outside of the chemical lab. It has to look kind of sciencey but nothing too recognisable."  "I know the perfect place!" AGROFUEL RESEARCH OPERATIONS: YORKSHIRE BRANCH. Really though, could they have not chosen a building that wasnt quite so easily identifiable as London city hall? FiftySeven fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 00:48
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Wheat Loaf posted:I must confess, the "in case of emergency, the Doctor is president of the world" thing hasn't really worked for me since it was introduced. I didn't like it when they introduced it and it irritates me whenever they go back to it. I'm hoping it disappears when Moffat's run is over.
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May 28, 2017 01:24
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Cleretic posted:Speaking of this season being so good it's almost annoying, how about we start a betting pool: what major issue will Peter Harness' story ham-fistedly reference and mishandle THIS time!? Okay, who had "GM research" ? Come collect your prize. Anyway, echoing what people have said here about that being not great and making little sense. I liked some parts of the setup, but everything with the lab was extremely dumb to the extent that it sort of meant the monks had a point. Except it's a point that has no bearing on the real world because the disaster was too dumb and contrived to be believable.
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May 28, 2017 02:27
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Just think of all the bad science as a throwback to the third doctor era. Ah, for the days when the earth was a giant lava bubble and eight computers were capable of mind control. Simpler times 
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May 28, 2017 02:49
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Can we all just appreciate for a moment that Doctor Who just took a shot at Donald J. Trump?
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May 28, 2017 02:50
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Yes, lets. This episode had some cool moments in it, like that Trump joke. The Previously and Now opening. I got to see 12 jam on his guitar some more. People melting looked real good. Another little person actor!
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May 28, 2017 03:08
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jivjov posted:Can we all just appreciate for a moment that Doctor Who just took a shot at Donald J. Trump?
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May 28, 2017 04:13
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Ofaloaf posted:I'm never quite sure if Who is supposed to take place in the present or in some near-future that's just far enough removed that we can pretend world leaders are people we haven't heard of yet. It's best not to think about it.
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May 28, 2017 04:24
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Ofaloaf posted:I'm never quite sure if Who is supposed to take place in the present or in some near-future that's just far enough removed that we can pretend world leaders are people we haven't heard of yet. First one, then the other
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May 28, 2017 04:25
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I had to go back and double check to see if I was misremembering, but they cheated a bit on the "love" thing. When the aliens checked the first guy for consent, afterwards they said "We must be loved." Then with the three people it was "there must be love."
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May 28, 2017 04:31
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Elite posted:Okay, who had "GM research" ? Come collect your prize. I probably would've picked GM research in isolation, because that's absolutely in the wheelhouse of Peter Harness' episode focuses (that being 'conservative old British man scared of progress') while the initial guess of nuclear armaments kinda wasn't. I just happened to fall victim to the intentional misdirection. That episode was otherwise... alright, I guess. Not great, in large part because of those lab scenes being bad and spread out through the story; someone pointed out recently that Forest of the Night's anti-meds message was very specifically bad but mostly confined to a single scene that doesn't impact the rest of the episode, which debatably puts it above Kill the Moon because while that one is more nebulously bad, it's spread out so far across the second half of the story that you can't ignore it. The lab scenes in this one are constantly stepping in the way of an otherwise-fine episode, so it drags the whole thing down. Unfortunately, the stuff with the Monks can't really stand on its own. There's a bunch of good ideas in isolation, but they don't quite meet up and mesh together, which is really disappointing. Still, if that's the worst we get this season, I'm happy. At least there's stuff to like about it.
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May 28, 2017 05:16
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BioEnchanted posted:The Doctor is not from Earth - somehow the bacteria can kill everything earth based but not the Doctor, maybe some dumb biology handwave involving incompatible proteins or something... Here's something to remember in case this situation ever arises in your own life: a Hazmat suit may protect the wearer from whatever environmental nasties are outside of it. That does not mean the suit itself is somehow incapable of, say, getting some of the nasty on itself. Similarly, while the bacteria may not attack the Doctor, he's still potentially contaminated. If they were in his lungs, for example, all he has to do is sigh or cough and Earth is doomed. Wibbly wobbly timey immune-systemy, I guess? You'd assume the TARDIS provides some disease resistance or it's a fantastic disease carrier.
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May 28, 2017 05:43
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Ofaloaf posted:I'm never quite sure if Who is supposed to take place in the present or in some near-future that's just far enough removed that we can pretend world leaders are people we haven't heard of yet. Amy and Rory's last five episodes were all like a year apart from each other, and then in the last one they said it was 2012 even though the previous series was explicitly set in 2011 and Angels Take Manhattan had to be 2016 at the earliest.
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May 28, 2017 05:51
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This whole thing felt like it was ghost written by RTD.
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May 28, 2017 05:57
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That one didn't really engage me at any point. The isolation control at that lab was so bad that I kept thinking they were intentionally telegraphing that the doctor was the one responsible for infecting the world. I honestly thought the twist was that they had simulated everything, including the doctor's reaction, and that going to the lab was what released it. He was running around without a suit, letting air in and out of the TARDIS, the lady scientist ran through the airlocks without there being time for air changes and without cleaning herself. Oh, and I really doubt a small firebomb is going to steralize that place. One set of airlocks doesn't have an interlcck that stops you from opening both doors, but the other one has a ridiculous lock on it? Also, what the hell is the point of a lockdown that vents dangrous stuff outside every twenty minutes? There wasn't any tension to any of the lab set up scenes. I'm guessing it was trying to build sympathy for the characters, but it was a bunch of time spent on stuff that didn't feel like it paid off, to me. I feel like the writer was trying to show that catastrophes come from unfortunate small mistakes, which is fair... but even though we knew the stakes were big, I didn't feel any tension or suspense out of the scenes with the two scientists. I knew what was coming and it felt like they were just going through the motions. The doctor used the fact that they were watching on cameras to beat them. Why could he assume they were watchng cameras? We just spent an entire episode looking at their magical simulation. You'd think the assumption would be that they're using the simulation to set the countdown... You've built this story on the back of an episode about the simulation. Use the thing as a key part of the plot. The Doctor didn't beat the simulation, or really address the thing at all. The simulation just wasn't good enough to account for the Doctor's actions. And yeah, the whole 'look at all the important people' thing is getting old. President Doctor just feels awkward and unbelievable (yeah, yeah, magic box... but unbelievable in the confines of the show). This all could have been done with UNIT and felt less ridiculous. I also wish they'd stop doing the thing where they kill several minutes showing UNIT/the government/the UN/whatever collecting the doctor and the companion. It's just filler. I feel like this would have been a much better story if it turned out that the aliens were the good guys just there to help and the doctor was being overly cocky. Really, my issue is more that this episode felt like twenty minutes of plot stretched out over an episode.
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May 28, 2017 06:15
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that was a very eh episode with a very good ending. I like how the Doctor had basically won, but then his arrogance hosed him over, because he didn't tell Bill or Erika about his blindness. Really looking forward to the next episode, though. it looks awesome, and it's a good call to have an episode where Bill has to play hero.
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May 28, 2017 06:21
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Everything with the World's Worst Biolab and the " THIS IS THE RUSSIAN OUTPOST " establishing shot was laughably bad.
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May 28, 2017 06:34
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jivjov posted:Can we all just appreciate for a moment that Doctor Who just took a shot at Donald J. Trump? I was laughing when the leaders were turned into dust - they deserved it Typical Harness episode, and even Moffat's writing doesn't hide the stupidity
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May 28, 2017 07:49
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You weren't the only one assuming that the reveal was going to be that the monks had planned for the doctor to thwart their plan but actually that was what they were counting on to spread the disease around. I was also annoyed at how contrived taking the obvious tardis escape route away was. Nardole gets the deadly plant disease even though presumably the tardis would have some sort of screen as part of its air shell for that or it would be tracking exotic diseases all over the place constantly, and the Evil GM bacteria doesn't melt him or anything just magically renders him unconscious. And didn't we just see a present day not-trump (dead) president in the last episode? Throwing in a trump joke after that seems a bit odd Blasmeister fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 07:53
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Carbon dioxide posted:Yeah, I agree that was really stupid. Nah. No known disease could kill every living thing on earth. Releasing the airborne combination of anthrax, smallpox, and tuberculosis wouldn't kill everything. Hardly anything directly kills both complex animals and plants. Kill all the plants and the animals would die eventually too, but not that quickly. There wasn't even mold left. It wasn't just dead, it was sterile. And there was no sign left of what had done it. Nothing can do that. No disease. No weapon. Maybe something like extreme solar activity, but this was supposed to be something we did to ourselves. Shooting off all the nukes wouldn't do it: nuclear winter might kill almost everything but it wouldn't be gone without a trace within a year and not even mold taking over. Maybe some chemicals. Chlorine gas or converting every drop of water to hydrogen peroxide might do it -- but that wouldn't be instant, to kill every living thing on the planet whatever was generating the toxic chemical would have to keep chugging along for months while humans did nothing to stop it. It has to be something completely new, and something that can keep on trucking without our help once it gets going. Even in science fiction that leaves either self-replicating machines turning everything to grey goo, or micro-organisms: nature's self-replicating machines. Given what he knows of our current technology, the Doctor decided accidental unstoppable bacteria was more likely than accidental unstoppable self-replicating machines. It's still pretty unlikely though. The bacteria composts everything it comes in contact with nearly instantly. How does the bacteria get across the open ocean to Australia and the Americas though? Anyone infected is dead in minutes, so we're not carrying it on transoceanic flights. America will drat well shoot down any plane or ship in the ocean to protect itself. Ocean currents would require the bacteria be able to survive in salt water, and there's no reason it would have that ability. Maybe the bacteria composting Europe, Asia, and Africa generates enough methane to choke the planet? The world ends smelling of farts.
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May 28, 2017 07:54
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Blasmeister posted:And didn't we just see a present day not-trump (dead) president in the last episode? Throwing in a trump joke after that seems a bit odd The monks probably rejected that aspect of their simulation because it was so clearly something that would never happen in real life, and this oversight has cascaded into a series of errors that lead to them not seeing the Doctor's solution. There was probably another fork where their simulation said the UK would vote for Brexit and they just shook their heads and fired their programmer.
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May 28, 2017 08:43
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Jerusalem posted:The monks probably rejected that aspect of their simulation because it was so clearly something that would never happen in real life, and this oversight has cascaded into a series of errors that lead to them not seeing the Doctor's solution. So you're saying the monks work for Nate Silver?
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May 28, 2017 08:47
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The one issue I have with the blindness thing is- surely disability law would require that a lab not have a combination lock that ONLY works visually. ATMs all have to have Braille, after all. Of course you could still have the Doctor not having bothered with Braille because of his specs seeing for him, but the point is, that's a lawsuit from a blind biologist waiting to happen. Not like a major flaw but whatever. Anyway, I'm getting kinda pissed at how BBC America is handling this show. The last few episodes have had sort of cliffhangery endings, and each time it hasn't really registered for me right away that the episode is over because of that loving "And now with no fanfare, Class" transition. There needs to be SOME kind of vaguely outro-ish thing. Honestly it's made me more resolved than ever to ignore Class completely.
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