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Pissflaps posted:What is the difference between a state and a nation? A nation is a group of people inhabiting a territory united by a common culture, history and/or language. A state is a political unit.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:22 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 12:08 |
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learnincurve posted:You are utterly and completely missing the point. It's the initial cost of buying those bulbs that's the issue here, that's not anactotal evidence that's the cost of bulbs vs how much people receive in benefits. Yes energy saving bulbs do blow in houses with dodgy electrics. My old house had what can only be discribed as a catastrophic electrics failure and it went from bulbs blowing once a year to bulbs blowing once a month or when certain electrical sockets were used. The only difference with led vs normal bulbs was that a normal bulb went plink and a led bulb often exploded. It's why I sold the house. A dodgy landlord wouldn't have given a flying fig. Hi, I realise this is anecdote, but my family was poor as gently caress in the third world and there were a drat lot of "choose between food and x" decisions made daily and my parents still bought low-consumption bulbs (the gas-filled ones) when they came out, replacing the old incandescent ones over a period of time (not all at once - starting with the bulb that was used the most), because they had a brain and thought "hmmm if we reduce the power bill then we'll be a tiny bit less tight in the future". They did this kind of thing (fixing broken stuff also) when money came in from some gig my father could do. There were no benefits for the unemployed, of any sort, in that time, in that country. My father was too old for the job market. We had to beg from small neighbourhood grocers, and walk miles to get the best prices from different supermarkets in different goods, hunting offers. My diet was mostly potato/pasta/rice based for long stretches of time. Yes, I have a very good idea of what "grinding inescapable poverty" feels like, thanks. Please don't underestimate the poor, many of them have brains and are capable of doing compromises, and can get creatively thrifty as gently caress
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:22 |
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Sometimes you just got to kill a nonce, in the street, with your dad's machete (why do you have a machete dad?). It's common sense.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:23 |
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I'm not sure we should be deciding lightbulb policy based on homeowners whose electrics are clearly in a dangerous state.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:25 |
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Pissflaps posted:What is the difference between a state and a nation? To quote the The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics: quote:nation‐state
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:26 |
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Baron Corbyn posted:A nation is a group of people inhabiting a territory united by a common culture, history and/or language. I'm interested in how he defines the difference while still insisting the California example is not applicable.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:27 |
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vodkat posted:To quote the The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics: You've provided the definite of 'nation state'. Neither California nor Scotland are a nation state.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:28 |
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Pochoclo posted:Hi, I realise this is anecdote, but my family was poor as gently caress in the third world and there were a drat lot of "choose between food and x" decisions made daily and my parents still bought low-consumption bulbs (the gas-filled ones) when they came out, replacing the old incandescent ones over a period of time (not all at once - starting with the bulb that was used the most), because they had a brain and thought "hmmm if we reduce the power bill then we'll be a tiny bit less tight in the future". They did this kind of thing (fixing broken stuff also) when money came in from some gig my father could do. There were no benefits for the unemployed, of any sort, in that time, in that country. My father was too old for the job market. We had to beg from small neighbourhood grocers, and walk miles to get the best prices from different supermarkets in different goods, hunting offers. My diet was mostly potato/pasta/rice based for long stretches of time. Yes, I have a very good idea of what "grinding inescapable poverty" feels like, thanks. This explains your pizza opinions.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:30 |
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Does this increase blood flow? Shes always drinking no sugar lemonade due to her diabetes I'm going to make the broad point that maybe some water or squash may be good for her
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:30 |
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Never liked democracy anyway
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:30 |
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Pissflaps posted:You've provided the definite of 'nation state'. jesus loving christ pissflaps! I tried to find a, simple, concise entry, from a source you couldn't possibly find issue with, and I even highlighted the important sentences for you! At this point you are either being willfully obtuse or lack basic reading comprehension.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:31 |
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vodkat posted:jesus loving christ pissflaps! I tried to find a, simple, concise entry, from a source you couldn't possibly find issue with, and I even highlighted the important sentences for you! but remember he "argues in good faith"
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:32 |
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vodkat posted:you are either being willfully obtuse This one. It's this one. It's always loving this one.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:32 |
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vodkat posted:jesus loving christ pissflaps! I tried to find a, simple, concise entry, from a source you couldn't possibly find issue with, and I even highlighted the important sentences for you! I think you're way past the point of being able to make a successful argument that Scotland could declare UDI and have it taken seriously by the international community.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:33 |
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My money's on Pissflaps actually being illiterate. It would provide a most elegant solution, which I'm fond of as a mathematician.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:34 |
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Namtab posted:I'm going to make the broad point that maybe some water or squash may be good for her I'll tell her to drink more water then
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:37 |
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Scotland could do UDI, but I suspect it would not end well for scotland
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:37 |
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Dabir posted:This explains your pizza opinions. While it's true that pizza has been a luxury food to me for much of my life, my opinions on pizza are average for my homeland. Our pizza is more southern-italian in origin, while northern-italian pizza is the rule here in the UK.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:38 |
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Scotland should do a DUI.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:39 |
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Cerebral Bore posted:My money's on Pissflaps actually being illiterate. It would provide a most elegant solution, which I'm fond of as a mathematician. Pissflaps is literally Charlie from It's Always Sunny, he's been complaining about Corbyn when this whole time he just works in Corby post office and is really confused why people are always talking about it on TV
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:41 |
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Pissflaps posted:I think you're way past the point of being able to make a successful argument that Scotland could declare UDI and have it taken seriously by the international community. We are arguing about if you understand the difference between a state and a nation now. It is a very basic political concept, which you appear not to get.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:42 |
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Namtab posted:Scotland could do UDI, but I suspect it would not end well for scotland Nothing will end well for Scotland. Such is our history.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:42 |
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Kegluneq posted:This is great, if only for the 'bosses'.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:47 |
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That's the stuff. How about BoJo throwing flags?
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:50 |
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forkboy84 posted:Nothing will end well for Scotland. Such is our history. Please no Scottish cringe Forkboy. We need to stop telling ourselves this. It's not only bullshit but self fulfilling bullshit.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:51 |
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Or Richard Branson throwing bedpans.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:52 |
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learnincurve posted:You are utterly and completely missing the point. It's the initial cost of buying those bulbs that's the issue here, that's not anactotal evidence that's the cost of bulbs vs how much people receive in benefits. Yes energy saving bulbs do blow in houses with dodgy electrics. My old house had what can only be discribed as a catastrophic electrics failure and it went from bulbs blowing once a year to bulbs blowing once a month or when certain electrical sockets were used. The only difference with led vs normal bulbs was that a normal bulb went plink and a led bulb often exploded. It's why I sold the house. A dodgy landlord wouldn't have given a flying fig. And you're so far past the point that you don't realise you turned off of it 16 miles back. You don't have to go out and replace all your bulbs straight away, you replace them as they go. You're also once again going for the blind deaf wheelchair bound grandma of examples to fail once again at proving your point. Your example of having to root around for coppers to buy economy bread would mean you wouldn't have been able to afford a normal old bulb either. Jfc read back what you're posting. You're alluding to the fact that all 'poor people' wallow in their own filth and darkness because of led lightbulbs and biweekly bin collections. And you're even daring to pull a no true scotsman on it too. I'm sure the multitude of posters in here who've lived through poverty love what you're saying right now. And i'm going to pull you on the landlords thing here. My experience of renting, and i've rented some lovely places in my time, is that electrics are the ONE thing landlords will sort out (eventually) since it can be immediately life threatening and will get them properly in the poo poo. Mold? Damp? They don't care, but broken sockets and exploding lights? Yeah they'll sort that. Just because you couldn't be bothered to sort out the electrics of a house you owned does not mean landlords wouldn't.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:57 |
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dispatch_async posted:Theresa May accused of being 'Donald Trump's mole' in Europe after UK tries to water down EU climate change policy And who said brexit was all bad, at least we won't be able to poison this well any more
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:58 |
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I really think we should put a moratorium on all the oy vey hope is a lie bollocks until after the election is lost, it's a real buzzkill when things are actually looking up for once.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:58 |
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PIGS BREXIT posted:And who said brexit was all bad, at least we won't be able to poison this well any more But I don't live in that well. I live in this one.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:00 |
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vodkat posted:We are arguing about if you understand the difference between a state and a nation now. It is a very basic political concept, which you appear not to get. No we are arguing about whether Scottish UDI is remotely possible or not. I asked how you define the difference between nation and state because you seem to think it's the trump card in declaring California to be different to Scotland - but considering they both, by your own definitions, have attributes of both nations (shared culture) and states (are political units) all you've managed to do is argue against yourself.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:04 |
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Gort posted:Or Richard Branson throwing bedpans. That was Hunt, on a Virgin airlines plane. It's a great game.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:07 |
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learnincurve posted:There are plenty of people who go two weeks between bin collections quite happily, those people are not poor people. gently caress off. I have been on benefits a long time, and I can easily go a month between bin collections, because - being both poor and single - I don't have much stuff to throw out. (No doubt my habit of saving up for long-lasting lightbulbs has helped a little in this.) I know it would be different if I had children. Your experience of poverty is not universalizable either.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:32 |
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Pissflaps posted:No we are arguing about whether Scottish UDI is remotely possible or not. You are woefully misrepresenting my argument here. Lets go back and look at the thinks I said: 1. The constitutional case for or against a second indy ref without westminster approval is an open constitutional question until (if ever) it happens 2. Comparisons to Catalonia do not provide any answers here for a great variety of reasons, which I did not elaborate on, but alluded to the most obvious difference, which is the that Scotland has and continues to exist in a very different national and state context to Catalonia. This includes a strong separate national identity (hint, that's what the S and N in SNP stand for) and a differentiated state apparatus from England, often in a complex legal tangle. The difference between a nation and a state is not a sliver bullet in any argument, but the complexities of the way in which the state and nation interact, and have interacted, in Scotland set it apart from many other independence campaigns. Defining a nation and a state is a very complex business, that academics have spent their lives agonizing over the details of, but recognizing that these are two distinct, and important concepts, is something that is a basic requirement for understanding anything about modern politics. The fact that the two often overlap, does nothing to invalidate anything I have said, in if you actually read the definition I quoted you would have seen that this issue is briefly addressed there. I'm not going to continue arguing this with you on this, because you clearly just want to be right, and an adversarial style of argument isn't going to teach you anything new, but if you really aren't seeing the difference between a nation and a state, or why it matters, please do go and read up on it because as someone that spends all their time on the internet posting about politics you really owe it to yourself to get the same theoretical level as a first year undergraduate.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:33 |
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serious gaylord posted:And you're so far past the point that you don't realise you turned off of it 16 miles back. Also the sheer deafening stupidity of the LED bulbs point drowned out the fact that two-weekly bin collections - like incandescent bulbs - are almost entirely a middle-class obsession. Let's face it his, putative family so poor they literally have to starve to buy a £3 light bulb are unlikely to be producing a huge amount of food waste. It's certainly a brave move to try and dress up the most Daily Mail of causes as aggressive class war - I'm eagerly waiting to see if he can come up with an angle on how banning quack diets and long-lens shots of the children of celebrities is actually an attempt to force the poor into slavery.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:35 |
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serious gaylord posted:
HOW??? You don't even seem to understand that a pensioner in disability benefits can easily afford stuff. Let's play the living on benefits game. Young man 22, university degree, no dependants, one bed flat in a northern town with rent of £80 a week in council tax band c. £57.90 a week jobseekers. -£1.78 in council tax -£1 water rates. Leaves £55.12 per week to live on. Token meters which people on the dole can only get have a .25p a day standing charge on them so take away £3.50. That's £51.62 left before you even turn on a hot water tap. Going to the job centre is £3, gas and electric £10. Now we are down to £38.62. Want to attend a job interview and keep a phone on so the employer can contact you? That's another £3 bus trip and a Giff gaff contract is £2.50 a week. Now we are at £33.12. £4.73 a day. To buy food, clothing, furniture, white goods, bus fares and so on. I also didn't give this hypothetical young man a maxed out credit card or overdraft fees. That's another £5 a week, and drops the poor lad to £4 a day to live on. Now how insignificant does that £3.75 lightbulb feel?
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:40 |
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Zalakwe posted:Please no Scottish cringe Forkboy. We need to stop telling ourselves this. It's not only bullshit but self fulfilling bullshit. Well, that & whenever I watch the national football team.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:41 |
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learnincurve posted:Now how insignificant does that £3.75 lightbulb feel? Jesus christ give it a rest
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:42 |
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Perhaps the problem here is not LED bulbs (which, after all, save money in even the short to medium term) the problem here is an unliveably low level of income
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:45 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 12:08 |
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You want a reason not to vote Tory, look at what they will make you live on if you lose your job.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:46 |