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SKULL.GIF posted:I'm not sure you read my post. There's a difference between "That's it, but we can wonder about more" and "That's it, and there's no point wondering about more because that's literally all of everything that's presented to us with no hooks into anything else at all." I read your post and one of your examples for tantalizing extrapolation is Sombra/Zarya which as far as I know is based on a 3 second cameo in an animated short where the two characters in question never even meet face to face. I'm not convinced Winston is uniquely bereft of anything to extrapolate off of any more than I'm convinced Blizzard put him into the game specifically to be "lol le meme gorilla XD"
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Jun 1, 2017 05:59
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We Know Catheters posted:Who writes that many words about a non-existent gorilla? Smh if you can't produce words on demand.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:59
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Kai Tave posted:I read your post and one of your examples for tantalizing extrapolation is Sombra/Zarya which as far as I know is based on a 3 second cameo in an animated short where the two characters in question never even meet face to face. I'm not convinced Winston is uniquely bereft of anything to extrapolate off of any more than I'm convinced Blizzard put him into the game specifically to be "lol le meme gorilla XD" Powerful nitpick. Focus on the overall point.
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Jun 1, 2017 06:04
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SKULL.GIF posted:Eh, I'd probably like him more if Blizzard would make it clear what exactly his deal with Overwatch is. I get he's a member, and that he's responsible for bringing the squad back together, and he and Tracer have a close friendship... but then that's it, and there's not even anything there to infer further details from. I'm fairly sure Winston straight up invented the thing Tracer wears to keep her from getting stuck in time.
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Jun 1, 2017 07:40
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Kai Tave posted:Jeff Kaplan and the Overwatch team are proud to announce the release of the new hero Barria, who is literally a flying 10,000 hitpoint barrier. Their ultimate ability creates three additional barriers allowing you to form a box around your team. These barriers last indefinitely until destroyed, but Barria's passive causes them to gain ult charge whenever any barrier in the game takes damage. It could also be Sombras ex-husband Barista, who places barriers and brews coffee. It would also kind of explain Sombra's espresso spray from last event. I'm using it as her default spray but I'm not really sure why.
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Jun 1, 2017 07:47
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winston is a nice boy, please don't be so hard on him
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Jun 1, 2017 07:54
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Bolivar posted:It could also be Sombras ex-husband Barista, who places barriers and brews coffee. It would also kind of explain Sombra's espresso spray from last event. I'm using it as her default spray but I'm not really sure why. Sombra has an espresso machine spray because part of her ~rich lore~ is she used a company's espresso machine to hack into their servers to steal sensitive information. No, seriously.
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Jun 1, 2017 07:58
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Kai Tave posted:Sombra has an espresso machine spray because part of her ~rich lore~ is she used a company's espresso machine to hack into their servers to steal sensitive information. No, seriously. That seems plausible actually. Employees buy coffee using quick pay via swiping their badge and entering in a pin. Espresso machine charges their credit card. We use a similar method at work for the vending machines.
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Jun 1, 2017 08:31
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Mustached Demon posted:That seems plausible actually. Employees buy coffee using quick pay via swiping their badge and entering in a pin. Espresso machine charges their credit card. Oh yeah no, it's perfectly plausible even these days to exploit wi-fi enabled devices to hack stuff, it's a legit security concern with the whole "everything has to be wi-fi/bluetooth enabled" tech push these days, but it's admittedly a little funny that the sinister master hacker's plan in the ARG that drove people insane for months was to send some office workers a coffee machine so she could hack their servers, and they decided to immortalize that moment with a spray.
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Jun 1, 2017 08:34
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Winston doesn't feel shallow because of the game's writing, he feels shallow because the fanbase haven't done anything with him. Because artists haven't spent their lives praticing drawing gorillas and no one wants to be saying "okay now Mercy should gently caress the gorilla".
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Jun 1, 2017 08:40
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Seems chill to me.
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Jun 1, 2017 08:41
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Tenebrais posted:Winston doesn't feel shallow because of the game's writing, he feels shallow because the fanbase haven't done anything with him. Because artists haven't spent their lives praticing drawing gorillas and no one wants to be saying "okay now Mercy should gently caress the gorilla". Fantheory: Blizzard has secretly absorbed Capcom into their biomass. Winston is the gorilla from God Hand and after getting his PhD and is now a scientist in a gorilla scientist costume instead of a pro wrestler in a gorilla pro wrestler costume.
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Jun 1, 2017 08:47
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Zinkraptor posted:The hook combo is what Roadhog is right now. Without it, he doesn't really have a place or identity in the game. My thoughts exactly. And it's not like "Press shift, instakill" - most squishy targets have small hitboxes, high mobility AND means to escape/avoid damage. Some have weird momentum which makes the follow up shot also unreliable. I have been playing Roadhog quite a lot and lately I noticed that a lot more players manage to escape the instakill, some by just spamming crouch. Why is Roadhogs hook combo - which is harder to pull off - nerfed, while McCrees Stun + FtH - which also pretty much reliably kills every unaware non tank - is fine in Blizzards book? Seriously miffed about this. Maybe the increase in firing speed will somewhat alleviate the problem, but on paper, this sounds horrible. Roadhog is the big meanie who will gently caress you up if you don't pay attention. With this change, he's becoming cannon fodder. Shooting slightly faster and one more shot in the mag will not save you against highly mobile, small targets. In short, I want my 3000 competitive points for Roadhog's golden gun back. 
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Jun 1, 2017 08:51
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Because if you're playing Roadhog right, enemy momentum doesn't factor in, compared to McCrees stun which does not cancel momentum - meaning Tracer, Genji, Wintson, etc can continue moving afterward. Also, lmao that the qualifier for McCrees stun+FTH being good is that the target be unaware, whereas Roadhog doesn't need an unaware target to gently caress them, just good predictive sense. The Hook combo was never hard to pull off, holy poo poo, it's one of the easiest most straight forward combos in the game, same as Flash+FtH. The difference is Roadhog can reliably yank and delete someone every few seconds safely behind a barrier, McCree literally has to get in their face and he does not have the durability to do so.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:05
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I noticed a change to Orisa with this patch: pre-patch, Orisa's reticle would bloom after the first shot, and then never decrease again for the rest of the match. It was kind of a silly bug that didn't really amount to anything other than making her very first bullet more accurate than the rest. Post-patch, her reticle properly decreases back to normal after ceasing fire, and only blooms after the first four shots or so. So that's neat, she got a really minor and borderline inconsequential accuracy buff.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:08
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FaustianQ posted:The Hook combo was never hard to pull off, holy poo poo, it's one of the easiest most straight forward combos in the game, same as Flash+FtH. The sheer amount of missed hooks and badly aimed followup shots you can see in any given average ranked game suggests that no, it's actually not as simple as it's made out to be. Something that's interesting is that throughout season 4 across all ladder ranks Roadhog's pickrate actually goes down the lower you go, presumably because people at lower and lower levels of skill aren't actually able to just effortlessly delete people the way it gets talked about.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:10
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I don't give a poo poo how much they nerf roadhog bring on the reaper buffs babyyyyyyyyy
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Jun 1, 2017 09:12
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Kai Tave posted:The sheer amount of missed hooks and badly aimed followup shots you can see in any given average ranked game suggests that no, it's actually not as simple as it's made out to be. Something that's interesting is that throughout season 4 across all ladder ranks Roadhog's pickrate actually goes down the lower you go, presumably because people at lower and lower levels of skill aren't actually able to just effortlessly delete people the way it gets talked about. Kai are you suggesting we balance according to Bronze and Silver, or? Because a lot of poo poo gets flubbed the further down you go, that does not change the mechanics of the whole combo and it's straight forward simplicity. Hook+LMB+Melee, done in a few seconds, and a follow up shot if it's a tank.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:18
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FaustianQ posted:Kai are you suggesting we balance according to Bronze and Silver, or? Because a lot of poo poo gets flubbed the further down you go, that does not change the mechanics of the whole combo and it's straight forward simplicity. Hook+LMB+Melee, done in a few seconds, and a follow up shot if it's a tank. I'm suggesting that Roadhog's combo isn't nearly the effortless free ride to GM everybody makes it out to be when bitching that it's such bullshit (that they were hanging their rear end out of position away from their team so they could get picked). If the combo was so stupidly powerful and stupidly easy to do then you'd expect to see him tearing up low level play but he doesn't actually start taking off until diamond or thereabout, suggesting that there's a higher skill component to using Hog well then people like to give him credit for because it undermines their argument that Roadhog is OP training wheels cheeze omg plz nerf I'm absolutely an advocate for balancing based around higher level play, which is why it's interesting that if you look at the very top end of the skill curve that that Roadhog is only sitting about about a 25% pickrate. which isn't to my mind evidence of some degenerate dominance that's warping the game and consequently in need of heavy-handed nerfs. People complain about Roadhog's hook combo even though there's tons of counterplay to it that you can do both on your own and coordinating with your team because it gives them a serious case of the feelbads, that's it, no more no less.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:24
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I'm just as irate about the changes to Hog as anyone, but this started when someone suggested that McCrees Flash+Fan is somehow more degenerate, and it's not. I'm also not saying Roadhog is some ticket to GM, so don't confuse that with the argument I am presenting, don't put words in my mouth. Also, Kai doesn't it counter your argument somewhat to say that Roadhog is only good at getting picks on out of position players? Because as skill level rises so does error in judgment so being out of position is increasingly unlikely the higher your rank. He takes off at Diamond because that's when mechanical skill for the combo comes into play consistently, and so what we should balance around. There is very little interaction from the victim in regards to it's success rate, it's the failure of the Hog to execute. I don't see a problem with higher skill characters, and I don't see that as making the combo hard or complex just because lower skill players become frustrated or fail to play it properly; otherwise we might start suggesting buffs for Widowmaker, McCree, Sombra, Winston, etc just because of the skill ceiling for them.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:45
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IronicDongz posted:I don't give a poo poo how much they nerf roadhog bring on the reaper buffs babyyyyyyyyy Reaper is nearly exactly the same post-buff from my experience. The health leech bonus doesn't really help that much, since instead of having a bunch of invisible, personal 50HP health packs floating around when any enemy anywhere dies from whatever, you personally need to do 250 points of damage to get the same effect. I guess it's okay if you want to hard counter tanks save for Zarya who can still give you a bit of trouble and D.Va which has all the means in the world to negate you and your ultimate for good measure. He still doesn't have great mobility which means he lacks a method to engage effectively, translating to him mostly stuck on cleanup detail half of the time (which doesn't help when you need high-HP targets to heal more effectively), waiting for the enemies to come to him (which works okay, I guess), or going for a flank (while he stomps his boots as loud as possible or teleports over the course of an hour while announcing himself via bullhorn). Hopefully it's sign of things to come because otherwise I'd say it's a sketchy rework at best and a borderline nerf at worst. I personally don't think letting him health leech and get heal orbs would've been that terribly unbalanced. You can make Reaper play out like a domino effect for the enemy team where once he gets his first kill he has a better opportunity to get the next. Thinking about it, even then I'd say Reaper might still be underwhelming. Theta Zero fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 09:58
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FaustianQ posted:Also, Kai doesn't it counter your argument somewhat to say that Roadhog is only good at getting picks on out of position players? Roadhog has some more going for him than that...he is, or will have been once the nerfs go through, one of the better shield busters in the game and his presence in a teamfight means that fast flankers like Tracer and Genji have to be more wary with their approaches lest they get hooked and deleted, but it's a two way street. Tracer and Genji can both farm a ton of ult off of Roadhog which means it's not an unequivocal hard counter situation either way, which is actually the sort of dynamic that the game should be striving for, where it's not a matter of "oh this guy has Rock and I have Scissors" but of characters having strong, impactful abilities that rely on skill and gamesense to leverage effectively. All of these are probably factors that play into Hog's pickrates at diamond on up. quote:Because as skill level rises so does error in judgment so being out of position is increasingly unlikely the higher your rank. He takes off at Diamond because that's when mechanical skill for the combo comes into play consistently, and so what we should balance around. Blinky, who's regularly in and out of the top 500 all the time, will happily tell you that even players that 99% of the playerbase would call really good still make dumb mistakes all the time. Maybe they don't make them as often, maybe they don't make them as bad, but they make them which means that to capitalize on them requires the Hog player to be that much more on point because people might do dumb poo poo but they won't serve him up picks on a silver platter. Also no, diamond isn't what they should be balancing around because diamond still isn't near the top end of actual skill, and at points far higher than diamond Hog's use drops off again as better players start making comparatively fewer mistakes and also getting really good with characters that can ruin Hog's day. He's certainly used but not to an overwhelming extent, not even if you cheat and look at him as a fat DPS instead of a Tank...Soldier, Tracer, and Genji all see more use than him. Winston, D.Va, and Reinhardt see more use as tanks, and he's only like a percentage point or three off from Zarya. quote:There is very little interaction from the victim in regards to it's success rate, it's the failure of the Hog to execute. This is 100% not true, especially since the last round of Roadhog tweaks which made the hook easier to break and upped its cooldown. It wasn't even always true back in Roadhog 1.0 days where Hog could hook someone and the stun would wear off before it finished dragging them in close which meant that the Genji you hooked would pop deflect, or Lucio would boop you, or Zarya would bubble, etc. Plenty of characters have defensive abilities they can use in response to an incoming hook which has a windup animation and a brief cast window, and even characters that don't have a blink or deflect can juke hooks, bait them out, position near corners or on high ground, etc. So the argument that "McCree's FtH combo requires the target to be unaware, Roadhog's combo doesn't" isn't born out by actual gameplay experience where trying to hook aware targets is just as likely to result in you missing, getting it blocked, or simply having it break. This is what I mean by the hook giving people the feelbads because there's a lot you could have done to avoid getting one-shot but when it happens it almost certainly means that there was a mistake you made somewhere along the line that let it happen, and it has a lot more counterplay to it than "there's Hanzo, oh hey scatter arrow, welp I'm dead." The reason McCree's combo doesn't get nerfed is that it's not actually that good. McCree's true power lies in his M1, the flash+fan combo is mainly a crutch for people not good enough to reliably get headshots. Random bullet spread plus falloff plus the fact that the flashbang doesn't cancel a moving character's momentum makes it a generally inferior option to simply left-clicking and this is why when you watch actual good McCrees play they rarely if ever use FtH and only then to do stuff like dump damage into shields. People don't regularly start threads on bnet and reddit bitching about FtH because it's a lot easier for them to accidentally survive it without any effort on their part.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:10
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And when flash+fan was good it got dumpstered, because one-shotting tanks was admittedly a bit egregious.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:16
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as a sombra main, this roadbog nerf is going 2 b fun
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Jun 1, 2017 10:30
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Fan was just too powerful in general at that point, it wasn't just the flashbang combo.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:35
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I think a problem a lot of people have is that they don't understand how "on" you have to be to not be feeding as Hog when going up against good people. In GM if i'm not "on" i'm feeding ult to the enemy and it will cost us teamfights. In one match I was being farmed and a tracer said to me "dude I just got 2.5 ults off of you from that one fight". If he didn't get his sticky's bubble'd by zarya, or if we got combo'd that's a free team fight win for him.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:39
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dogstile posted:I think a problem a lot of people have is that they don't understand how "on" you have to be to not be feeding as Hog when going up against good people. In GM if i'm not "on" i'm feeding ult to the enemy and it will cost us teamfights. In one match I was being farmed and a tracer said to me "dude I just got 2.5 ults off of you from that one fight". If he didn't get his sticky's bubble'd by zarya, or if we got combo'd that's a free team fight win for him. The other side of that coin is how a lot of people apparently don't understand that there are plenty of things they could have done to prevent themselves from getting hook-gibbed in the first place but it's way easier to decry something as OP cheese than admit that maybe part of the fault lies with you. This is just a dumb and bad change no matter how you slice it unless you're simply in it for vicarious spite against that one time you got hooked and it was bullshit, man. They've fiddled with the numbers in an attempt to make it look like a sidegrade but running the numbers it's just a straight-up nerf, so now Hog is worse at busting shields, he doesn't threaten or punish like he used to, he still doesn't actually tank in the slightest, and they didn't add anything to make up for it. Deciding to overhaul Roadhog so he moved away from the hook as his signature ability but they gave him something else to make up for it would be weird to do a year after the game's launch but okay, whatever, but this is just Blizzard arbitrarily deciding after a half dozen minor tweaks and adjustments and fine tuning of numbers and distance and cooldowns to just break out the sledgehammer because Geoff Goodman was getting bored that day. e; also I'm just gonna say from a purely aesthetic standpoint I dislike the way they're upping the fire rate of his gun because I prefer it to be a big, ugly, slow-firing monster instead of this thing that fires as fast as Torbjorn's gun. There are plenty of ways they could have tuned Roadhog if they were absolutely desperate to but these sorts of balance changes always feel both clumsy and lazy. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 10:50
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How many people have actually played new hog?
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Jun 1, 2017 10:57
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https://clips.twitch.tv/AgitatedSmoothTortoiseRitzMitz low gravity is... good
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Jun 1, 2017 10:59
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Kai Tave posted:Blinky, who's regularly in and out of the top 500 all the time, will happily tell you that even players that 99% of the playerbase would call really good still make dumb mistakes all the time. Maybe they don't make them as often, maybe they don't make them as bad, but they make them which means that to capitalize on them requires the Hog player to be that much more on point because people might do dumb poo poo but they won't serve him up picks on a silver platter. Also no, diamond isn't what they should be balancing around because diamond still isn't near the top end of actual skill, and at points far higher than diamond Hog's use drops off again as better players start making comparatively fewer mistakes and also getting really good with characters that can ruin Hog's day. He's certainly used but not to an overwhelming extent, not even if you cheat and look at him as a fat DPS instead of a Tank...Soldier, Tracer, and Genji all see more use than him. Winston, D.Va, and Reinhardt see more use as tanks, and he's only like a percentage point or three off from Zarya. I wasn't stating we should balance around Diamond, rather Diamond up because to me it's clearly where mechanical skill mastery truly starts (based on increased success rate of Roadhog Hooks) even if there is a ways to go, and why I don't think balancing around success or failure due to a lack of mechanical skill is a good idea ever (ergo, Platinum and lower). The usage drop off even points this out, Diamond is mechanical mastery where you can consistently do the combo, but as you progress upwards you get fewer and fewer victims who make less mistakes. Fair enough that I am wrong that the trend would stay solid after Diamond, that just indicates Hogs hook peaks in mastery sooner. Kai Tave posted:This is 100% not true, especially since the last round of Roadhog tweaks which made the hook easier to break and upped its cooldown. It wasn't even always true back in Roadhog 1.0 days where Hog could hook someone and the stun would wear off before it finished dragging them in close which meant that the Genji you hooked would pop deflect, or Lucio would boop you, or Zarya would bubble, etc. Plenty of characters have defensive abilities they can use in response to an incoming hook which has a windup animation and a brief cast window, and even characters that don't have a blink or deflect can juke hooks, bait them out, position near corners or on high ground, etc. So the argument that "McCree's FtH combo requires the target to be unaware, Roadhog's combo doesn't" isn't born out by actual gameplay experience where trying to hook aware targets is just as likely to result in you missing, getting it blocked, or simply having it break. This is what I mean by the hook giving people the feelbads because there's a lot you could have done to avoid getting one-shot but when it happens it almost certainly means that there was a mistake you made somewhere along the line that let it happen, and it has a lot more counterplay to it than "there's Hanzo, oh hey scatter arrow, welp I'm dead." I wasn't talking about prior to being hooked, rather after one is hooked. My point is that once the hook is landed, the entire combo is piss easy, there is little recourse for the victim besides desperate hope his team can actually help him. Further mindgames assumes the Hog won't do the same back, and with poo poo like that I assume it's a wash because the guy who fucks up is the lower skill player and then were back to talking about a skill difference, not about the game mechanic. Also "McCree's FtH combo requires the target to be unaware, Roadhog's combo doesn't" isn't an argument I am making, rather I was laughing at the weird juxtaposition mcbexx was making that Hogs hook was harder to pull off than finding unaware targets to stun+fan, the implication that Hog needs someone even more dead to the world to successfully hit the combo. I'm also not saying there isn't counterplay, players don't line up like bots to get hooked and sent to spawn for Roadie, I am only taking issue with the idea that the combo is hard to pull off, it's not. Maybe I'm being too anal about the difference between "landing a hook" and "execution of combo", but people always take it in context of his damage, like right now, so saying that it's difficult reeling in a stunned target to smack them at close range with 225+ damage is bizarre. So here is my further point, stun+fan is just as easy to execute as hook+shot but it's also much weaker, and what I took issue with originally. I'm also loling a bit at the idea that it's acceptable on one hand to bitch about Roadhogs combo potentially resulting in a similar situation as McCree's stun+fan, but then assume it's perfectly fine that McCree remain that way (or even nerf it), but it's bad for hog. Stun+fan has even more counterplay and lower success rate even if you execute properly. They're not on the same level, at least not until now, and suddenly it's the end of the world for some people.
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Jun 1, 2017 11:03
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FaustianQ posted:I wasn't talking about prior to being hooked, rather after one is hooked. My point is that once the hook is landed, the entire combo is piss easy, there is little recourse for the victim besides desperate hope his team can actually help him. And once again this still isn't true. I even explained why it's not true. There's gap time from when the stun wears off which allows you to survive even being hooked. I've watched Harbleu, a guy whose day job is basically ruining peoples' poo poo with Roadhog for the internet to enjoy, land perfectly solid hooks that a Genji deflects out of or a Zarya bubbles. Even then, even if we run with the idea that none of the stuff you can do to juke, bait, or block the hook counts, the fact remains that "well once you get hit with the thing THEN you're hosed" isn't real different from any other situation where you get punished for a moment's indiscretion like Soldier burst-firing your head a split second before a rocket hits you. (Also the combo isn't "piss easy" once the hook has landed either considering how many Lucios, Anas, Widowmakers, etc. get hooked, shot, and don't die because surprise, aim is still required.) quote:I am only taking issue with the idea that the combo is hard to pull off, it's not. If it's so easy to pull off the top 500 would be full of salty Roadhog mains who cruised there to prove a point. It's harder to land than people think, it's harder to execute than people think if it wasn't then Roadhog would have a much greater presence at all levels of play because when something is easy to pull off everyone does it. "This ability is too easy (if you're above a certain skill threshold and below another)" is a real weird way to assign something as a priority balance change.
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Jun 1, 2017 11:24
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Redundant posted:How many people have actually played new hog? I have! I test every change to Roadhog because he's kinda my thing. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ynd7nFIQqwLOBOrvV_4FIkwQWrUCoeKmTf5YgpqD5Z0/edit?usp=sharing heres a guide i wrote that's going to be entirely out of date (thanks blizz) Below is a video of me playing him at a highish level! I care! Way to much! I have crippling depression! Memes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiGfRbEsx10&t=3s
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Jun 1, 2017 11:39
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Kai Tave posted:And once again this still isn't true. I even explained why it's not true. There's gap time from when the stun wears off which allows you to survive even being hooked. I've watched Harbleu, a guy whose day job is basically ruining peoples' poo poo with Roadhog for the internet to enjoy, land perfectly solid hooks that a Genji deflects out of or a Zarya bubbles. Even then, even if we run with the idea that none of the stuff you can do to juke, bait, or block the hook counts, the fact remains that "well once you get hit with the thing THEN you're hosed" isn't real different from any other situation where you get punished for a moment's indiscretion like Soldier burst-firing your head a split second before a rocket hits you. I've never actually had that happen for me TBH, once I've landed the hook it's always required outside intervention for my victim to be saved, I've been saved similarly and have never lived without outside assistance. I don't watch streamers at all really, so I can then only reduce my experience to something anecdotal because physical evidence exists otherwise. I'm also not getting how "and aim" makes sense to bring up as a point because were back to talking about what feels like basic competency. If we're seconding guessing what is essentially a perfect shot served on a platter then I don't even loving know anymore. I guess I am judging skill in a different way that assumes the Hog is looking out for counterplay, shields, etc and that failures to do so are on the player, not the nature of the characters mechanics, in which case Widow OP because 300 damage. It's why I don't see eye to eye with your argument on why Roadhog's hook is difficult. I didn't see why it needed changed anyway though, I'm just as stunned Blizzard decided to take the hammer to the Hog, because while I don't see execution as hard, getting to that point can be fairly difficult with all the barriers, dive comps and CC.
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Jun 1, 2017 11:49
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dogstile posted:I have! How bad is the nerf in action? People love to claim that a nerf has crippled a character and they're normally wrong (D.Va still sitting pretty at >50% btw guys, remember when she was "dumpstered"?) so I tend to take it with a grain of salt. If you could give me a little break down on how hook feels now and how much work hog can get done with just the scrap gun I would appreciate it. The PTR is being really funky with me and my ping is astronomical so can't really test myself to satisfy my curiosity. In total I probably have more hog hours than anybody else despite not really using him for a few seasons, I will be sad to see the big oaf go so here's hoping the RoF buff is enough!
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Jun 1, 2017 11:57
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Redundant posted:A high level hog main tester who literally wrote the book on him? How lucky! Now I get to badger you with questions! Honestly? He feels awful. He'll still be dominant on maps like ilios and lijang because he can drop people, but for actual damage, everything feels worse. Hooking some of the cast is a death sentence for me (hooking ana or reaper for example will probably just get me killed, mei can immediately ice wall behind me, ice block in front of me and i'm hosed). The hook "feels" the same in terms of grabbing people, but you absolutely have to either hook damaged targets or you won't get the kill a lot of the time. It was already a bit janky hooking people on stairs, now you can say goodbye to every stair kill. You also won't be killing pharah anymore if you're hooking her from below. Shield wise, every single shield in the game is annoying to shoot anyway, now its worse. For example, roadhog used to break orisa's shield in 4 perfect hits. Now he can't do that, even spamming all five shots into it. This means his usefulness and a shield breaker goes down significantly. His head hitbox is a nice change (and brings it in line with everyone else) but to be honest, if you were getting domed in the head for any significant level of time, you were either out of position or taking a breather in the open without turning your back to the enemy. In short, I absolutely hate the changes and unlike the hook break change (which i'm begrudgingly working with, I admit its kinda fair) this feels like it'll kick Roadhog off the competitive ladder completely.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:10
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dogstile posted:Honestly? He feels awful. He'll still be dominant on maps like ilios and lijang because he can drop people, but for actual damage, everything feels worse. Hooking some of the cast is a death sentence for me (hooking ana or reaper for example will probably just get me killed, mei can immediately ice wall behind me, ice block in front of me and i'm hosed). This is pretty much what I've felt at plat level as a roadhog main on the PTR. The inability to delete flankers aside from Tracer reliably plus him being unable to help as much breaking shield spam basically removes his reason for existing. There's really no situation where you'd not be better off with a different tank; remember that it's not really a question of "Can he still, in some situations, get picks? Then he's STILL USEFUL" it's a question of "When would you prefer to bring Roadhog to one of your six slots rather than literally any other tank", and I am struggling to come up with a coherent answer to the second question.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:28
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Mukaikubo posted:This is pretty much what I've felt at plat level as a roadhog main on the PTR. The inability to delete flankers aside from Tracer reliably plus him being unable to help as much breaking shield spam basically removes his reason for existing. There's really no situation where you'd not be better off with a different tank; remember that it's not really a question of "Can he still, in some situations, get picks? Then he's STILL USEFUL" it's a question of "When would you prefer to bring Roadhog to one of your six slots rather than literally any other tank", and I am struggling to come up with a coherent answer to the second question. Even then, when you get higher Tracer is a hero you're going to lose the matchup to, because tracer will never be in your "kill zones" and you'll never land a hook on her. So you won't be deleting her (ever) and every other hero you grab, you'll have to hope your team follows up on it. Even then, say if they get zarya bubbled? Great, now even if your team follows up, that genji has a chance to pop deflect, get healed in front of you and then he just dashes away. Mei can now just ice block. Ana grenades and sleeps you Lucio boops you away (he should still die though) Most "thin model" characters seem to survive the new combo, which I really don't like. Why is my reward for catching a goddamn widowmaker a "lol, cya nerd" as she grapples off into the sun?
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Jun 1, 2017 12:49
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I never understood why people felt hog was so oppressive. Many times it's really obvious when he's going for the hook so you just have to either dodge or move beyond hook range. The times he actually hooks me I've hosed up and should be the one blamed.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:59
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Star posted:I never understood why people felt hog was so oppressive. Many times it's really obvious when he's going for the hook so you just have to either dodge or move beyond hook range. The times he actually hooks me I've hosed up and should be the one blamed.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:02
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Ersatz posted:Human psychology 101: it's always someone else's fault. And it's never the guy who beat you fair and square, they just crudely took advantage of game design flaws/your teammate's incompetence/pacts with Satan.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:07
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