Doctor Who Series 10 (Season 36): "It speaks emoji!"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who Series 10 (Season 36): "It speaks emoji!"

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

I don't really see the similarities between the Monks and the Silence. The Silence have been shaping our society in secret for millennia without being seen, whereas the Monks literally landed on the planet and said "Take us to your leader".

Bicyclops posted:

This sums up a lot of what the problem with that scene I was talking about with that Nardole scene I mentioned, and really any scene where the Doctor was giving exposition to the room full of military people. It feels like they're going for that scene where Nine keeps saying "Narrows it down!" except people are just yelling random guesses and the Doctor is saying "Good, yes! It's exactly that!"

Yeah, it would have worked much better if the Doctor was asking them to remember things they saw in the visions of the future.

As it was it felt so arbitrary. Why bacteria and not grey goo? Or some project to drill into the mantle, or to open a black hole at a particle accelerator, or anything else.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 02:25

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# ? May 9, 2024 21:03

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

The Silence can't go near present-day Earth. Anyone who has ever seen the Moon Landing carries a subconcious kill order to murder them on-sight.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 02:30

Gordon Shumway: Jan 21, 2008

I'm annoyed that Moffat had Bill essentially sacrifice Earth in order to give the Doctor his sight back. I'm hoping they stick the landing on this (presumably) three-parter.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 02:50

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Gordon Shumway posted:

I'm annoyed that Moffat had Bill essentially sacrifice Earth in order to give the Doctor his sight back. I'm hoping they stick the landing on this (presumably) three-parter.

That would be a no regardless. Any good story needs a beginning, middle, and end, and so far we've had two unnecessary prologues. The finale could be good, but it still doesnt excuse wasting two episode slots in a twelve-episode season just to start the actual story.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 03:02

Matinee: Sep 15, 2007

Burkion posted:

Well, Moffat kind of suicided the Silence into being unusable unless you just want to forget that they're actually confessional priests from the future who specifically only hate the Doctor unless they're some of the good ones who aren't from the forsaken sect.

I've been a Doctor Who fan since I was five, ever since I saw Spearhead From Space on a BBC2 rerun just before the 1996 TV Movie, and then asking my parents for a bunch of classic VHS/DVDs for Christmases and birthdays until the 2005 series, but it took until reading this sequence of words for me to realise that Doctor Who is kinda bollocks.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 03:16

Eiba: Jul 26, 2007

Honestly, it's not really a three parter. Just three stories with the same villains. The first one was quite good I think. Very interesting ideas, passable execution. The second one also had neat ideas, but the story didn't quite come together, but honestly those vaguely neat ideas are all that matter going into the third one. Specifically how the invaders must be loved and invited to rule the Earth.

It's quite possible, even likely given the track record of the other two parts, that there will again be some neat concepts in an awkward story, but nothing about the awkwardness of these stories means they can't pull of a nice rebels and totalitarians story with, presumably, some nifty twists.

But the point is, they're isolated enough from each other that it's not like part three needs to wrap up an arc started in part one. It's more like there's a recurring villain that happened to show up in three consecutive episodes. Like three different Silence stories, or three Angel stories.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 03:18

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Extremis was cool enough in its own right that I wouldn't call it a waste tbh. It's got some laughs, some scares, and an existentially mind_obliterated Doctor. Not bad for a Saturday night.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 03:21

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Neddy Seagoon posted:

The Silence can't go near present-day Earth. Anyone who has ever seen the Moon Landing carries a subconcious kill order to murder them on-sight.

I know it's an audio title, and not even a main range Doctor one at that, but I really dug how they handled them in the UNIT: Silenced boxset. The Silence have been hunted for decades since the moon landing, they despise and fear humans and want nothing more than to get the gently caress off the planet, with a little final "gently caress you" on their way out as revenge. But they can only affect change on a small, individual level because EVERYBODY has seen the moon landing, and they've desperately being trying to find or manufacture a similar global event to get everybody watching so they countermand the "Kill us all on sight" order, arrange the tech to get off-planet and catch the nearest passing space-ship the gently caress out of this lovely backwater planet.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 03:50

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

That should have ended with present-day earth somehow contacting the Papal Mainframe in the distant future so the Silence can ask them for help, and the Mainframe agreeing to get rid of the kill order in exchange for the Silence coming to work for them as confessional priests.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 03:55

Facebook Aunt: Oct 4, 2008; wiggle wiggle

Eiba posted:

Honestly, it's not really a three parter. Just three stories with the same villains. The first one was quite good I think. Very interesting ideas, passable execution. The second one also had neat ideas, but the story didn't quite come together, but honestly those vaguely neat ideas are all that matter going into the third one. Specifically how the invaders must be loved and invited to rule the Earth.

It's quite possible, even likely given the track record of the other two parts, that there will again be some neat concepts in an awkward story, but nothing about the awkwardness of these stories means they can't pull of a nice rebels and totalitarians story with, presumably, some nifty twists.

But the point is, they're isolated enough from each other that it's not like part three needs to wrap up an arc started in part one. It's more like there's a recurring villain that happened to show up in three consecutive episodes. Like three different Silence stories, or three Angel stories.

Yeah, there is no reason why there couldn't have been other episodes between the first and second parts. The intervening weeks could have had moments where the doctor considers the message and tries to figure out what it means.

After part one I assumed the reason why they would choose to attack NOW rather than any other moment was because sim-Doctor had gotten a message out to real Doctor -- in effect making it the Doctor's fault they attack this week rather than 50 years from now. The Doctor's attempt to save the world becomes thing thing that endangers it. Nope. Apparently it was pure coincidence that humans almost destroy ourselves within days of Sim-Doctor sending the message.

So what did Sim-Doctor accomplish? Did anything at all about their plan change because he sent that message? Did anything the Doctor did change? As soon as they enter the pyramid the aliens immediately tell them about the simulation, so no advantage there. I guess if he hadn't known about their plan the Doctor might have been more curious than suspicious, and encouraged the humans to talk instead of attack the pyramid. But since the attempts to attack the pyramid didn't work, that seems moot.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 04:18

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Facebook Aunt posted:

Yeah, there is no reason why there couldn't have been other episodes between the first and second parts. The intervening weeks could have had moments where the doctor considers the message and tries to figure out what it means.

After part one I assumed the reason why they would choose to attack NOW rather than any other moment was because sim-Doctor had gotten a message out to real Doctor -- in effect making it the Doctor's fault they attack this week rather than 50 years from now. The Doctor's attempt to save the world becomes thing thing that endangers it. Nope. Apparently it was pure coincidence that humans almost destroy ourselves within days of Sim-Doctor sending the message.

So what did Sim-Doctor accomplish? Did anything at all about their plan change because he sent that message? Did anything the Doctor did change? As soon as they enter the pyramid the aliens immediately tell them about the simulation, so no advantage there. I guess if he hadn't known about their plan the Doctor might have been more curious than suspicious, and encouraged the humans to talk instead of attack the pyramid. But since the attempts to attack the pyramid didn't work, that seems moot.

I'm moderately certain in a real GMO lab there'd be none of that "cycle the air with outside air every thirty minutes" crap, because that seems like a big breach in containment.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 04:24

sunnyboy: May 10, 2011; Hawkmen Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!

I hope I'm wrong, but I *think* I'm coming to the unfortunate realization that Moffat is acting suspiciously like he's channeling RTD for his big finale.

I mean, during the RTD final years, we could count on Moffat for the quiet, really cool episodes to offset Rusty's manic "throw the kitchen sink at it" over-the-top episodes. I should note that for the most part I also really did enjoy those pot-boilers from RTD, but it was nice when he moved on and Moffat gave us more of his cool "really thought-out stuff".

Except this season. It suddenly feels like deja-vu all over again. The ghost of RTD's past have returned to haunt Who and it's scripts.

But I did love the four basic food groups. Beer, indeed! I fear I may require vast quantities to make it through the rest of the season if things don't take a turn for the better.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 04:27

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

HBomberguy has a long video on his problems with Moffat, focusing on Sherlock but with lengthy digressions on Doctor Who and other things.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 05:25

Hemingway To Go!: Nov 10, 2008; im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway

Doctor Spaceman posted:

HBomberguy has a long video on his problems with Moffat, focusing on Sherlock but with lengthy digressions on Doctor Who and other things.

I'm listening while typing code just because IT'S BEEN TAKEN DOWN THREE TIMES TODAY
Only the first like half hour, less maybe, is mentioning Who

I think he gets some things wrong about the show. I think he skipped over a lot of Watson's story that I don't remember. And the boomerang thing isn't as dumb as he thinks it is.

And just because the original stories were not a continuous narrative does not mean that doing Sherlock as a serialized storyline is a bad idea.

He does bring up some good points, though. Especially about over-serialized storylines. And Irene's rewritten story being terrible. And Moffat being kind of up his own rear end at times.

man, season 4 sounds bad though.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 05:50

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Yeah, I disagree with bits of it. The original Sherlock Holmes stories generally aren't fair-play mysteries and it seems strange to mark the show down for it given that.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 06:03

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Short Synopsis: Charley isn't feeling herself, but somebody else is.

Long Synopsis: Charley does the impossible and gets sick on the TARDIS. In his attempts to cure her, the Doctor tracks the origin of her disease to a facility under siege by Daleks. Meanwhile, Charley discovers somebody has been watching her (and especially the Doctor) for a looooong time.

What I Liked/Disliked:

The loss of self. There's a lot going on in this story, which has elements of a Base Under Siege story (i.e, the BEST kind of story) but at its heart what is really important are the interactions/relationship between Charley and Mila, the titular Patient Zero. Mila is the subject of a Dalek experiment gone horribly wrong (what other type is there?), and while her origin story smacks a little bit of trying too hard to raise the importance of an author's new character, it does go a long way towards explaining who she is, how she is able to pull off her con, and why she is so stuck on the Doctor. After months if not years of horrific abuse/experimentation at the suckers of the Daleks, she took great comfort in the legend of the only being she ever heard of that her tormenters were afraid of - the Doctor. Due to her unique condition she was able to stowaway on the TARDIS, but it wasn't until a similarly displaced character - Charley - showed up that she was able to affect the change she wanted. Mila is insane, if understandably so, and there is something wonderfully horrifying about the reveal that Charley only fell victim because the TARDIS views her as an intruder (she's there two regenerations before she should be) and wasn't actively protecting her like it did everybody else. The gradual realization of Mila's plan is well handled, as Charley slowly figures out that she's fading out of reality while Mila fades back in, leaving Charley an invisible and helpless spectator who ends up taken prisoner by the Viryans whose black and white view allow her no recourse. Charley seeing herself fade out is bad enough, but seeing her fade out only to be replaced by a doppelganger who easily slots into her place pretending to be her is a real kick in the teeth. And best of all is that she only has herself to blame, because she's been so careful to keep her secret from the Doctor that any aberration in her personality doesn't stand out to him, she's always been odd and reluctant to talk about her past. She is a victim of her circumstances, the perfect target for Mila.
Fratalin. Fratalin is a fun concept, a gestalt being who splits off into individual parts that can work autonomously but retain that connection to their original self. The story has a good time playing around with the idea, showcasing the alien nature of this being but giving it a very "human" personality - hopes, fears, duty vs self-preservation etc. Watching the central Fratalin slowly fall apart as the Daleks exterminate his other parts is pretty chilling, especially since he has the power to stop it but knows it would be a dereliction of his duty - this isn't an officer sacrificing his own men for some greater cause, he feels and experiences every death himself because every death is HIS death.
The Doctor's solution. As the Daleks kill Fratalin(s), the viruses stand in danger of exposure, Charley (kinda) is at risk and the Dalek Time Controller goads him with the knowledge that everything is happening as time dictates it must.... he comes up with an incredibly fun and elegant solution. The Daleks have tracked the viruses back to this point in time/space and are convinced the Doctor is an integral part of the timeline that will see them gain access to these viruses.... so the Doctor blows everything and everybody (including himself) up! Why? Because if he dies, then he can't help the Daleks get the viruses, and if the viruses never existed then the Daleks would never have been able to track them down to this point. So he blows everything up with the full knowledge that the Daleks would immediately throw their temporal shields up and contain the explosion as long as possible to maintain what the Time Controller is convinced is the established timeline. This allows the Doctor to rather casually and jollily stroll out of the station with Fratalin and Charley at his side, mocking the Daleks as they go, knowing that the Daleks are completely powerless to stop them because they're so busy keeping everybody alive. Unfortunately....
The Dalek Time Controller is real dumb. Having defeated the Daleks, the Doctor makes a point of returning and I assumed it was to do something clever - I figured he actually wanted to ask about Charley (or at least Patient Zero) because he knew something wasn't quite right with her. Instead he jawjacks with the Dalek Time Controller for a bit and inadvertently reveals that blowing up the space station will actually spread the viruses through Time and Space creating the very conditions that drew the Daleks there in the first place. In other words, it is in the best interests of the Dalek Time Controller to LET the explosion happen. The Doctor is incredibly thick to let this out, but the Time Controller is far stupider because it takes FOREVER for it to figure this out, including a lengthy section where the Doctor basically tells it the same thing over and over again because even he figures the Time Controller must have figured it out by now. This leads to another section where "Charley" KOs the Doctor and gets him back into the TARDIS and leaves Fratalin to the explosion, and her explanation is so poorly handled that I was waiting for the Doctor to give a knowing,"Hmmmm?" or even outright call her out on it... but he just takes her flimsy story at face value. Basically, everybody is written as stupid while we're told they're smart.
The Viyrans.... ehhh. First seen in a one-off short story attached to The Mind's Eye, the Viyrans were interesting in that story because it captured how alien and weird they were as seen from Peri's perspective. Here most of the story has characters referring to how weird and alien and terrifying they are and when they finally show up they're utterly underwhelming. It's supposed to be shocking when the Daleks attack them and can't kill them, but all the Viyrans do is disintegrate and then reintegrate moments later. It's a stalemate but the Daleks still seem to be getting the better of it, making the Viyrans kinda feel like chumps. About the only interesting thing they do is that they're able to see Charley at a point when she shouldn't be able to be seen. Unfortunately the way the story wraps up makes it seem like these guys are going to be back again at some point soon.

Final Thoughts:

Patient Zero is an interesting concept that ends up feeling mostly phoned in. Briggs is hit and miss as a writer and this one feels like more of a miss, though there is nothing particularly galling or offensive about it, it's just mostly a missed opportunity to do something REALLY weird. The Viyrans could have been really unsettling, and they should have explored more of Charley/Mila's situation and Mila's past, which is probably the most interesting part of the plot. The Dalek Time Controller feels like a bit of a moron which probably wasn't what they were going for, if they had they could have played up more those scenes where the other Daleks are getting increasingly frustrated about not being allowed to just exterminate people and blow stuff up to get what they want. Colin Baker as always gives an excellent performance, though his Doctor makes some boneheaded mistakes. India Fisher is great too but it is a shame that her playing of Charley in the latter part of the story doesn't really feel differentiated from the first half - that's kind of the point since Mila has been watching her carefully and is trying her best to emulate her but it does make it easy to forget that there is supposed to be something off going on here. On the plus side, after initially planning to have ended the 6th Doctor/Charley adventures roughly at this point, they proved popular enough to keep India around a little bit longer so I have high hopes that this is all going somewhere. As always, I'm more than happy to be able to hear her voice on these audios and hopefully more to come.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 06:04

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Hemingway To Go! posted:

man, season 4 sounds bad though.

The first two episodes were really good, episode 2 was actually excellent.

Episode three though.... :negative:

# ? Jun 1, 2017 06:05

Hemingway To Go!: Nov 10, 2008; im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Yeah, I disagree with bits of it. The original Sherlock Holmes stories generally aren't fair-play mysteries and it seems strange to mark the show down for it given that.

It's one of the biggest criticisms constantly leveled at the short stories, really.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 06:08

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

I love the Sherlock Holmes stories but a lot of them aren't exactly "follow the clues to find out whodunnit" mysteries, like you'd have in an Agatha Christie novel.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 09:01

BioEnchanted: Aug 9, 2011; He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I liked the Sherlock game "Secret of the Silver Earring" because it ended each chapter with a pop-quiz that asked you to figure out what was important in the evidence and testimony gathered, and what conclusions you could reach from it. Unlike more recent games it didn't let you fail and the quizzes were quite hard but it was an interesting way of getting the player to solve the mystery.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 09:15

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

Doctor Spaceman posted:

HBomberguy has a long video on his problems with Moffat, focusing on Sherlock but with lengthy digressions on Doctor Who and other things.

Never thought I'd be so happy to see a grown man screeching about Jekyll. I have never seen anything go off the rails so spectacularly.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 09:44

BioEnchanted: Aug 9, 2011; He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

It was a shame Jekyll ended so poorly, I enjoyed most of it. Hyde had some fun lines, like "Have you ever killed anyone? It's great it's like sex but there's a winner!"

I also liked "I don't know why, but I woke up really wanting to hurt you!"

# ? Jun 1, 2017 10:01

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

BioEnchanted posted:

It was a shame Jekyll ended so poorly, I enjoyed most of it. Hyde had some fun lines, like "Have you ever killed anyone? It's great it's like sex but there's a winner!"

I also liked "I don't know why, but I woke up really wanting to hurt you!"

"No...I have people for that"

So many great lines:
"If it's any consolation I was spying on you from the beginning. There was never any point where I betrayed you".

Then it tried to be all profound with its "love is a psychopath" wankery and I wanted to hit someone.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 10:08

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

BioEnchanted posted:

It was a shame Jekyll ended so poorly, I enjoyed most of it. Hyde had some fun lines, like "Have you ever killed anyone? It's great it's like sex but there's a winner!"

I also liked "I don't know why, but I woke up really wanting to hurt you!"

For whatever reason, James Nesbitt (and later his kids) being shut in the coffin thing is stuck in my head. Gave me the jibblies.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 10:11

BSam: Nov 24, 2012

glowing-fish posted:

Like a lot that Moffat does, the Doctor being bragadocious is one of those things that is frosting. Its fun, its a nice treat, its special the first time you have it...and then it becomes really old as a primary diet.

The Doctor's "largest library in the universe, look me up" line? "Even monsters have nightmares"? Those were kind of zingy lines. The speech at Stonehenge was also pretty good. But that was...five years ago? The entire reason it was appealing is that the Doctor usually acts so quiet. If his normal character is "Mr. Tough Stuff", it defeats the purpose.

i agree, the one used a week or so back was good, because they actually did look him up. but other than that, yeah gently caress it.

people have been giving dr who monologues to other dr who actors to read out and they've been great. i want the most 'i'm the loving doctor, ain't you ever heard of me? run you fucks!' that someone can find, and for them to give it to Five to read out. someone please make this happen

# ? Jun 1, 2017 10:29

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

BSam posted:

people have been giving dr who monologues to other dr who actors to read out and they've been great. i want the most 'i'm the loving doctor, ain't you ever heard of me? run you fucks!' that someone can find, and for them to give it to Five to read out. someone please make this happen

Here's one version. Audio quality is bad though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezwG-h5l-48

# ? Jun 1, 2017 10:32

BSam: Nov 24, 2012

i'm sure i've seen that, thanks for linking it again

# ? Jun 1, 2017 10:34

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

BioEnchanted posted:

It was a shame Jekyll ended so poorly, I enjoyed most of it. Hyde had some fun lines, like "Have you ever killed anyone? It's great it's like sex but there's a winner!"

I also liked "I don't know why, but I woke up really wanting to hurt you!"

Would've been funny if they had cast Paterson Joseph as the Doctor and James Nesbitt as the Master, done a bit of a Jekyll reunion.

Of course, would've been funnier if they had cast Helen Baxendale as the Doctor and James Nesbitt as the Master, done a bit of Cold Feet reunion.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 11:36

BioEnchanted: Aug 9, 2011; He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I saw the actor in Jekyll who played the best friend who betrays him in a production of La Cage Aux Folle in London shortly after watching Jekyll. That was certainly something as I'd never seen him in any other things. He plays the main character, the Husband of the lead gay couple.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Jun 1, 2017

# ? Jun 1, 2017 11:44

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

BioEnchanted posted:

"Have you ever killed anyone? It's great it's like sex but there's a winner!"

Haven't we had a couple of variations on that in Who? I remember Idris' "Biting is like kissing but there's a winner." in The Doctor's Wife.

BioEnchanted posted:

He plays the main character, the "Husband" of the lead gay couple.

You can just say husband without the quotation marks. Thanks.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 12:03

BioEnchanted: Aug 9, 2011; He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

The_Doctor posted:

Haven't we had a couple of variations on that in Who? I remember Idris' "Biting is like kissing but there's a winner." in The Doctor's Wife.

You can just say husband without the quotation marks. Thanks.

Edited sorry.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 12:14

Yvonmukluk: Oct 10, 2012; Everything is Sinister

Bicyclops posted:

Yeah, I want to see what they use for the rule of threes that's so absurd, the Pope and the head of the U.N. seem tame by comparison.

It's a decent joke and spacing it out between episodes makes it even better.

Well the Doctor is President of Earth...

Burkion posted:

Well, Moffat kind of suicided the Silence into being unusable unless you just want to forget that they're actually confessional priests from the future who specifically only hate the Doctor unless they're some of the good ones who aren't from the forsaken sect.

God, that was a sloppy retcon.

I mean let's be honest, there was no way that was the original plan, right? Right?

# ? Jun 1, 2017 13:29

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Yvonmukluk posted:

Well the Doctor is President of Earth...

God, that was a sloppy retcon.

I mean let's be honest, there was no way that was the original plan, right? Right?

I don't know that you can extract any sort of "original plan" from series 6 and 7. The overall arc really is a mess.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 13:38

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I wonder if Moffat even had an original plan for all the "Silence will fall" stuff, or just figured it would come to him as he went. I assumed when it first became clear it would be a multi-season plot that he'd had some big Ultimate Doctor Adventure in his head for a long time that he was building up to but in retrospect it looks a lot more like he was writing by the seat of his pants.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 13:41

Open Source Idiom: Jan 4, 2013

Yvonmukluk posted:

Well the Doctor is President of Earth...

God, that was a sloppy retcon.

I mean let's be honest, there was no way that was the original plan, right? Right?

I honestly doubt he had much of a plan, but whatever. He's always just sort of flitted around and grabbed on to whatever felt right, and dropped them pretty solidly when he was done. Kind of impulsively, honestly. e.g. the Silence's TARDIS, whatever was going on with Clara's grandmother, Kovarian (who is still alive!?), Ohlia, whatever his plan was with Tasha Lem.

I think it's most obvious with the way each of his sets of supporting cast briefly overlap before being dropped for the next lot. River --> Paternoster --> UNIT --> Missy --> Nardole. Missy's had a bit more staying power, but that's sort of generally the way he works.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 13:47

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Clara's grandmother was just a horny old lady

# ? Jun 1, 2017 13:56

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

If you have an episodic tv series, it is usually better for your storylines not to go past one season. Obviously you want to set up the next season, leave a question or two unanswered to go back to later, but you have to be prepared to commit to it. The big question at the end of season five was "Who blew up the TARDIS?" then season six goes somewhere completely different and the answer is given as a kind of aside in a Christmas special.

Clearly it's different for Doctor Who but when it comes to plotting tv shows, I feel like starting with, "Oh, I'll bring this in now and resolve this in three seasons' time," is a bit like the Hollywood "We don't care if it's a good movie - we just want the launchpad for a new franchise" sensibility you get a lot nowadays (e.g. Dracula Untold, seemingly endless YA adaptations etc.).

But, regardless, all Moffat has to do is make stories that seem clever and he'll get away with it provided there's enough "epic" moments people can turn into gifs and stick on Tumblr and one-liners that can turn into annoying memes.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 14:01

Bicyclops: Aug 27, 2004

Wheat Loaf posted:

I love the Sherlock Holmes stories but a lot of them aren't exactly "follow the clues to find out whodunnit" mysteries, like you'd have in an Agatha Christie novel.

You don't really do that with Christie novels, either. You can typically tell who did it almost right away from characterization and her writing style, but the clues rarely lead you to the actual murderer.

In fact, in one of her most famous stories, because the narrator did it, he has left out crucial parts of the story, intentionally obscuring them.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 14:17

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Wheat Loaf posted:

If you have an episodic tv series, it is usually better for your storylines not to go past one season. Obviously you want to set up the next season, leave a question or two unanswered to go back to later, but you have to be prepared to commit to it. The big question at the end of season five was "Who blew up the TARDIS?" then season six goes somewhere completely different and the answer is given as a kind of aside in a Christmas special.

Clearly it's different for Doctor Who but when it comes to plotting tv shows, I feel like starting with, "Oh, I'll bring this in now and resolve this in three seasons' time," is a bit like the Hollywood "We don't care if it's a good movie - we just want the launchpad for a new franchise" sensibility you get a lot nowadays (e.g. Dracula Untold, seemingly endless YA adaptations etc.).

But, regardless, all Moffat has to do is make stories that seem clever and he'll get away with it provided there's enough "epic" moments people can turn into gifs and stick on Tumblr and one-liners that can turn into annoying memes.

Wait, they explained who blew up the TARDIS?

# ? Jun 1, 2017 14:32

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# ? May 9, 2024 21:03

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Bicyclops posted:

You don't really do that with Christie novels, either. You can typically tell who did it almost right away from characterization and her writing style, but the clues rarely lead you to the actual murderer.

In fact, in one of her most famous stories, because the narrator did it, he has left out crucial parts of the story, intentionally obscuring them.

Fair enough - I've read fewer Christie novels than Holmes stories and confess I'm more familiar with them via adaptations.

Dabir posted:

Wait, they explained who blew up the TARDIS?

Well, "explained" is perhaps putting it a bit generously. In "The Time of the Doctor", there's a bit where he meets Orla Brady on her spaceship and she says (paraphrased), "Oh, by the way, Madame Kovarian blew up your TARDIS."

# ? Jun 1, 2017 14:43

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who Series 10 (Season 36): "It speaks emoji!"

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