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Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009

Andrew Scheer says he won't impose his religious beliefs on Canadians. We'll see: Neil Macdonald




quote:

Social conservatives in the United States have used all sorts of creative schemes to impose their views


Social and religious conservatives helped make Andrew Scheer the leader of the Conservative Party this past weekend. It remains to be seen how much of a say they will have in policy. (David Donnelly/CBC)

Academics who study such things tell us that we naturally tend to seek shelter in our own intellectual cohort, and that this insularity is a bad thing, because absorbing only the viewpoints of those with whom you agree makes you less smart.

That makes sense. To ignore political views that clash with your own eventually leads to irrational obduracy.

There is research indicating that misinformed people rarely change their minds, even when presented with facts. They merely pursue alternative facts. Which creates a stupidity feedback loop.

So by all means, cast your attention net wide. Consume information and analysis across the political spectrum. I read the Weekly Standard and the National Review regularly. Having your mind changed by fact is a sublime experience.

Religion, though, is something else. It is by definition not fact-based. It is a pure belief system.

Religion in politics

To be clear here, I am all for a person's right to believe in whatever he or she desires, to embrace foundational myths of aliens, or miracles, or extreme positions of love or hatred, as long as it remains in a place of worship, with the door closed.

But it usually doesn't.

Religion most often involves a deep commitment to telling other people how to live their lives. In the U.S. — and to a lesser extent Canada — evangelical conservatives, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, are often a relentless and formidable political force.

Many expect and obtain supplication from candidates for public office. They push for laws that amount to moral dictation, often using their tax-free status to amass funding for their activism.

Religious lobbies in the U.S. have waged an all-out assault on Planned Parenthood. (Eric Gay/Associated Press)

As a result, abortion, which the U.S. Supreme Court legalized decades ago, remains effectively inaccessible in several states. If Christian conservatives had their way, there'd be precious little access to contraception, either. Just look at the current assault on Planned Parenthood.

They fought bitterly against same-sex marriage, speciously and viciously arguing that it would somehow contaminate heterosexual marriage, or lead to pedophilia and bestiality.

They oppose transgender rights (transgender people are apparently freaks of nature or charlatans who must at all costs be restricted to a bathroom of society's choosing).

Their political lobbies want to force prayer back into school, and replace — or at least match — the teaching of science with superstition. (Yes, superstition. The word is defined as a persistent belief in something despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and there is overwhelming evidence of evolution. Humans and dinosaurs did not co-exist, as creationists would have us believe, and the Earth is a lot more than 10,000 years old despite what the so-called young earthers say).

A matter of faith

Faced with legal barriers to some of these efforts, they decry judges as "activist" and seek to install more religious judges.

And whenever someone calls them on what is often plain old hatred-laced bigotry, they smile and say, "No, no, you don't understand. It's a matter of 'faith.'"

"Faith," apparently, confers licence to discriminate, bully, marginalize and deprive someone of liberty (such as the liberty to end an unwanted pregnancy).

Which brings us to the new leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Andrew Scheer, who, if the preponderance of political analysis is correct, was pushed over the top by social and religious conservatives.

Scheer opposes the very notion of a woman deciding to end her own pregnancy. (Fred Chartrand/Canadian Press)

He seems a nice fellow — a bit like the current prime minister. Both men wander around with what seem like permanent smiles plastered on their faces.​

But Scheer opposes the very notion of a woman deciding to end her own pregnancy. He voted against a law normalizing same-sex marriage, arguing in the Commons that "homosexual unions" are antithetical to raising families.

He also defended Alberta Bishop Fred Henry, who told parishioners in a 2005 letter that gay sex is "an evil act, whether it is performed in public or private" adding that:

"Since homosexuality, adultery, prostitution and pornography undermine the foundations of the family, the basis of society, then the state must use its coercive power to proscribe or curtail them in the interests of the common good."

Henry faced complaints to the province's human rights commission. That angered Scheer, who maintained Henry was merely instructing the faithful. 

"To think that a Catholic bishop must answer to a civil authority over matters of faith is abominable. It is abhorrent to me, to other Catholics and to every member of every faith community," he said.

But notice the "faith community" reference. The good old catch-all.

Otherwise put, it amounts to this: "I and a bunch of other people like me think homosexuality is an abomination, but because we meet in church, you have to respect that view."

No, we don't.

Religious conservatives make the same basic argument when they argue that people suffering horrible, terminal pain shouldn't be enabled or even allowed to end their own lives

Or when, inexplicably, they publicly oppose, as Scheer has, strengthening protection for transgender people, who have to be among the most vulnerable in society.

Canadians do have Scheer's word that despite his strongly stated positions, he would not as prime minister introduce legislation re-opening the abortion question or same-sex marriage.

But social conservatives in the United States have used all sorts of creative schemes to impose their views on populations in states where they hold sway. You often don't need legislation to get your way.

Canada's a different place, but a prime minister enjoys much broader power than a president.

A little de-funding here, a little creative regulatory tweaking there, and you can accomplish what you want without big, loud, bothersome House of Commons debates.  

We shall see. Scheer has already wiped his policy platform off his leadership website.

Other than all that, by the way, congratulations. May the road rise up to meet you, the wind be at your back and the sun shine warm on your face. 


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Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord
The Andrew scheer article comments is a goldmine

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009

Risky Bisquick posted:

The Andrew scheer article comments is a goldmine

:yeah:

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
It seems to be a faceoff between smug atheist "religion is a mental illness" types and "criticizing Islam is now a capital offence" types.

MoaM
Dec 1, 2009

Joyous.
Is there really data from the CPC leadership race describing/proving how "fiscal conservatives" flew to Scheer after the first vote?...

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009

vyelkin posted:

It seems to be a faceoff between smug atheist "religion is a mental illness" types and "criticizing Islam is now a capital offence" types.

[Wanatabe] Let them fight. [/Wanatabe]

Shame they can't actually obliterate each other and make us all better off...

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
Scheer is going to race to the center along with Trudeau once the campaign kicks off in 2019. Bank on it, I can't say for sure that they won't pass some Social Conservative bullshit if they win, but they will probably push the same messaging as the Liberals except instead of spending it will be targeted tax breaks and deficit reduction.

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?

vyelkin posted:

My favourite part is "Our economy was never structured for everyone to be able to live freely and debt free" as if that's just The Way Things Are instead of a reason for us to change the way our economy is structured.

Some people just have to be poor, that's just the way this glorious system works, don't question it and never change. Now excuse me while I head to my job as Assistant Manager at Tim Horton's with my 60k a year degree.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

DariusLikewise posted:

Some people just have to be poor, that's just the way this glorious system works, don't question it and never change. Now excuse me while I head to my job as Assistant Manager at Tim Horton's with my 60k a year degree.

Like hell they make 60k at a tim hortons managing, you're talking like 40k tops

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
Meant to be that the degree cost 60k!

What happens if they pay the front-line workers as much as the assistant manager :ohdear:

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos
Tim Hortons is one pf the most abusive companies in terms of labor exploitation. Most workers are TFWs being forced to rent a room from a store's owner and everyone else is given only enough hours to remain part time and avoid all benefits.

Reince Penis
Nov 15, 2007

by R. Guyovich
I'm still waiting for the editorial that explains how raising the minimum wage increases consumer demand by putting more money in workers pockets.

I'm sure it's coming right?

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

DariusLikewise posted:

Meant to be that the degree cost 60k!

What happens if they pay the front-line workers as much as the assistant manager :ohdear:

AM's at fastfood/retail were always like DOLLARS above minimum wage. Trickle down economics from a franchise owner? laugh

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
I remember when McDonalds was stating that they paid people above minimum wage after finishing training and they would literally just give one cent more an hour above whatever minimum wage was in that province lol

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

DariusLikewise posted:

I remember when McDonalds was stating that they paid people above minimum wage after finishing training and they would literally just give one cent more an hour above whatever minimum wage was in that province lol

"More than 50% of our employees make above minimum wage!"

*49% make $7.50/hr
*50% make $7.51/hr
*1% make $9,000/hr

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

I'm still waiting for the editorial that explains how raising the minimum wage increases consumer demand by putting more money in workers pockets.

I'm sure it's coming right?

The country's most read newspaper had one

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/toronto-star/20170516/281771334119163

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord
McDonalds USA has advocated to employees that face economic hardship to apply for food stamps rather than increase their wage or shifts. Stop caring about business owners.

Rust Martialis
May 8, 2007

At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

DariusLikewise posted:

Scheer is going to race to the center along with Trudeau once the campaign kicks off in 2019. Bank on it, I can't say for sure that they won't pass some Social Conservative bullshit if they win, but they will probably push the same messaging as the Liberals except instead of spending it will be targeted tax breaks and deficit reduction.

It's going to be hilarious when the NDP run to the center as well, and the Liberals outflank them on the left because the careerists who run the NDP are terrified of looking 'room' leftist'

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord
Grenier with Excel Macro analysis

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-bernier-conservative-points-1.4139716

ARACHTION
Mar 10, 2012

Baronjutter posted:

I've never heard of a pharmacy tech making minimum wage what the gently caress.

That's what London Drugs pays and they often demand that you have taken the one year course prior to working there.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
I know the old fish and chip shop in Mission, whose demographic was primarily old people going in to get the lunch special, had to sell after the HST was introduced because their sales dropped pretty much overnight by 35%.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

vyelkin posted:

The economy in Ontario will begin to collapse January 1 2018. We will now have two classes. Lower class and upper class. The middle class with be gone. I feel sorry for the people working our current minimum wage jobs that simply do not understand economics. You will not have more money after the wage increase, you will not have 'breathing room', you will also not be further ahead than you are now.... It's a little thing called inflation. ( which will be hyperinflation in this case), which actually further weakens the dollar and costs us even more money.

For many people making 16-20 an hour, most will not see a wage increase. They will just become closer to lower class. Your $1.90 large double double will now cost $2.75-$3.00. Your big Mac combo that costs you $ 10 bucks now will be closer to $15. Your weekly groceries that cost you $150 will cost you $225.

Anything that is less costly right now, will cost the most after January 1st. The government likes to claim they are bringing everyone up to middle class but that's not true.... Actually it's simply impossible. Our economy was never structured for everyone to be able to live freely and debt free..

For people like myself whom have busted their asses to do well and earn more in life this is nothing more than a kick in the face. For those who spent 60k+ and dedicated years of thier life sitting in a classroom, all will the hopes of doing better in this life this is even a bigger kick in the face.

Here we have the liberal government hard at work. Rewarding people for nothing, removing the middle class, increasing the debt load and again.... Crashing the economy. Moving to the US has never looked this

Ayup, that's the one my Facebook feed has been flooded with.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

HookShot posted:

I know the old fish and chip shop in Mission, whose demographic was primarily old people going in to get the lunch special, had to sell after the HST was introduced because their sales dropped pretty much overnight by 35%.

So gently caress old people then. Anyone focusing on them as a target demographic are playing with fire.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




HookShot posted:

I know the old fish and chip shop in Mission, whose demographic was primarily old people going in to get the lunch special, had to sell after the HST was introduced because their sales dropped pretty much overnight by 35%.

Old people are dumb and terrible, more at 11. Their sales didn't drop because of the tax, they dropped because of that.

cougar cub
Jun 28, 2004

Thread sure does spout a lot of hate these days. Y'all need to grab a beer, sit on a patio / front steps / backyard / balcony and chill.

I'd recommend the Rickard's radler for this time of year.

Lightning Lord
Feb 21, 2013

$200 a day, plus expenses

I like fish and chips, how do we get more young people to agree?

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




cougar cub posted:

Thread sure does spout a lot of hate these days. Y'all need to grab a beer, sit on a patio / front steps / backyard / balcony and chill.

I'd recommend the Rickard's radler for this time of year.

Rickards is terrible, I hope you get destroyed by a thousand angry beavers

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe

HookShot posted:

I know the old fish and chip shop in Mission, whose demographic was primarily old people going in to get the lunch special, had to sell after the HST was introduced because their sales dropped pretty much overnight by 35%.

I remember when the indoor smoking ban hit Ontario and a coffee shop in downtown Sudbury closed down because it subsided on giving angsty teen nerds a place to hang out drink 80c coffee and smoke until their lungs were the consistency of an old scrap heap tire. Rip Darkroom.

That doesn't mean that in the end the smoking ban wasn't necessary and a good thing. So is what's happening now. Most businesses will adapt and society will be better for it.

Sorry about your fish and chip stand.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

cougar cub posted:

Thread sure does spout a lot of hate these days. Y'all need to grab a beer, sit on a patio / front steps / backyard / balcony and chill.

I'd recommend the Rickard's radler for this time of year.

Radler is an admirable bit of marketing, they got people to pay beer prices for juice. Drives me nuts when my wife buys it. Enjoy your overpriced Molson shandy.

e: Whitewaters Farmer's Daughter is the correct enjoyable beer for this time of year :colbert:

James Baud
May 24, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
.

James Baud fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Aug 26, 2018

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
If you run a fish and chips shop, and your primary market isn't drunk people, you deserve to go out of business.

Also applies to donair/shawarma shops.

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

EvilJoven posted:

I remember when the indoor smoking ban hit Ontario and a coffee shop in downtown Sudbury closed down because it subsided on giving angsty teen nerds a place to hang out drink 80c coffee and smoke until their lungs were the consistency of an old scrap heap tire. Rip Darkroom.

We saw a redux of this here on Ottawa with a hookah ban, wah wah our culture is shisha and if people want to work in a cancer factory they should be allowed to.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

cougar cub posted:

Thread sure does spout a lot of hate these days. Y'all need to grab a beer, sit on a patio / front steps / backyard / balcony and chill.

I'd recommend the Rickard's radler for this time of year.

Stiegl's is superior

RealityWarCriminal
Aug 10, 2016

:o:
Zombeavers was a good movie

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

flakeloaf posted:

We saw a redux of this here on Ottawa with a hookah ban, wah wah our culture is shisha and if people want to work in a cancer factory they should be allowed to.

Oh c'mon, Muslims can't drink, and they have to put up with 20 hour Ramadan fasts living here, let them have a single vice...

cougar cub
Jun 28, 2004

JawKnee posted:

Stiegl's is superior

I agree!

Postess with the Mostest posted:

Radler is an admirable bit of marketing, they got people to pay beer prices for juice. Drives me nuts when my wife buys it. Enjoy your overpriced Molson shandy.

e: Whitewaters Farmer's Daughter is the correct enjoyable beer for this time of year :colbert:

:cheers:

Not listed on liquor connect... Looks like whitewater is not a available in Alberta!

cougar cub fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 1, 2017

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Postess with the Mostest posted:

Radler is an admirable bit of marketing, they got people to pay beer prices for juice. Drives me nuts when my wife buys it. Enjoy your overpriced Molson shandy.

my dude have you heard of Stiegl

e: jfc did it take me *that* long to read this page

Evis
Feb 28, 2007
Flying Spaghetti Monster

Development lots in False Creek Flats offered in untendered deal that needs provincial approval

quote:

The last two open lots on a prime False Creek Flats development site owned by four B.C. universities have been offered in a confidential untendered sale to several Vancouver developers, in a deal that must be approved by the B.C. government.

According to information reviewed by Postmedia News, the confidential sale proposal by the Great Northern Way Trust — a land-development group involving BCIT, SFU, UBC and Emily Carr University — came together in May. Circumstances of the deal, which must be approved by the Ministry of Finance and Ministry of Advanced Education, seem to underline the high stakes at play in B.C.’s new uncertain political terrain.

Emily Kaplun, project manager for Great Northern Way Trust, confirmed the trust’s board has recommended the untendered sale of two lots adjacent to the new Emily Carr University building to PCI Developments Corp. and to Low Tide Properties, the development company of Vancouver yoga clothing entrepreneur Chip Wilson. However, Kaplun said she could not confirm certain details.

“I have to recognize the confidential nature of the purchase contract and that we’re still in the midst of negotiations on this transaction,” Kaplun said. “Other than the sale of Lots 6 and 7, GNW Trust has used a competitive process where lots have been sold to the private sector.”

The two lots are offered on an 18.6-acre former industrial site that was given to the four B.C. universities in 2001. GNW Trust is seeking to develop a mixed-use, live, work and retail village centred on Emily Carr University, and a proposed new SkyTrain station to be built as part of the proposed Broadway extension. The area is considered by industry experts as the final frontier of high-density real estate development in Vancouver, and primed to boom.




Of the two lots offered, the largest, Lot 7, would have the new SkyTrain line running right through it. Lot 7 was offered for $1 in the deal — apparently because of restrictions due to the expected SkyTrain — according to information reviewed by Postmedia. As of a year ago, May 2016, the appraised value of Lot 6 was $12.3 million. PCI and Low Tide offered $24 million for Lots 6 and 7, and would spend up to $5 million to build a daycare centre on the site. This would fulfil a City of Vancouver development obligation for GNW, giving GNW final proceeds of about $19 million from the proposed sale.

In an interview on Tuesday, Kaplun said that GNW judged that an untendered sale process was warranted for Lots 6 and 7, because of the complexity of developing the site. PCI had already bought adjacent Lots 9 and 8 in an open bid process, Kaplun said. PCI’s plans on Lot 8 are expected to seek additional density that will warrant the building of the daycare, according to deal information. As PCI’s plans on Lot 8 became clear, Kaplan said, and PCI came forward with an unsolicited offer for Lots 6 and 7, GNW judged that having PCI and Low Tide develop all of these lots in an integrated way, made most sense.

GNW’s board conducted due diligence and “are now satisfied that the value realized is the best that could be achieved in the market,” for Lots 6 and 7, Kaplun said.

According to proposed terms, GNW Trust could be paid future proceeds for the sale of Lots 6 and 7 if PCI gets a rezoning for high residential density, Postmedia has confirmed. But Kaplun said she could not disclose how this process would work, for confidentiality reasons.


Lots 6 and 7, currently used by construction equipment and trailers for work on the Emily Carr building, are subject to an untendered sale agreement. NICK PROCAYLO / PNG

A person with knowledge of the deal said the four universities that are shareholders of GNW must approve the deal before June 15 so that it can be put forward for government approval. The person said they wonder about the deal’s value, as some comparably sized Vancouver development lots, although with different zoning scenarios, have reportedly sold for between $70 million and $90 million. Another question is whether the proposed SkyTrain extension will become a reality, the person said. Another source with knowledge of the deal questioned why a May 2016 appraised value of $12.3 million was used to value Lot 6 in the deal. All the universities involved were contacted by Postmedia and those that responded declined to comment on the deal.

On Tuesday, Premier Christy Clark said she expects her government to fail in a confidence vote some time in June, and for the NDP and Greens to seek to form a new government.

Before Clark outlined her plan, Kaplun was asked if the uncertain condition of B.C.’s government would affect GNW’s timeline and plans for submitting a request for approval.

“That is a good question,” Kaplun said. “We have a close working relationship with staff workers at both ministries, so I don’t see this as an issue.”

Postmedia News informed NDP MLA David Eby of the proposed deal and he said he would be concerned if the deal was rushed through for approval. He said an NDP-Green government might want to see Lots 6 and 7 used for ideas from their election platforms, such as promotion of affordable housing or technology development.

“I’m really unhappy that a major land deal might go forward untendered, when the province has a gap between two governments,” Eby said. “And if this deal allegedly involves big B.C. Liberal donors, I don’t think it is appropriate.”

Rodney Porter, a Ministry of Advanced Education spokesman, said the ministry has not yet received the trust’s request for approval on the proposed sale. Porter was asked if the government has rules outlining whether land sales of a certain value must be put on the open market. But he did not answer the question directly.

“The Great Northern Way Trust is answerable to its shareholders — BCIT, SFU, UBC and ECUAD,” Porter said in an emailed response. “The ministry expects that the sale of any property by a post-secondary institution would be at fair market value. However, it is common that conditions are attached to a sale that could impact a decision.”

Deal information reviewed by Postmedia suggests that over 150,000 square feet of build density is available on Lots 6 and 7 under current zoning.

Jake Luft, a senior associate with Avison Young in Vancouver, said that since the City of Vancouver approved a new False Creek Flats development plan in mid-May, “the area is no doubt in high demand. Developers are looking to unlock development potential.”

Luft said, though, that it is difficult to judge the value of the lots surrounding the Emily Carr University site.

“We’re unable to comment on the value of this land as there are too many unknown variables,” Luft said.

A search of provincial donation records shows that PCI companies have donated approximately $265,000 to B.C. political parties since 2005. Of that total, $2000 was donated to the NDP and the rest went to the Liberals. Chip Wilson has donated $150,000 to the B.C. Liberals personally, and he has donated $57,500 to the party through his Low Tide Properties company, records show. Jo Delesalle, the chief financial officer of developer Dayhu, sits on the GNW Trust Board that has recommended the deal. Delesalle is also a member of the Emily Carr University board, appointed in July 2015, according to the university’s website. Dayhu has donated approximately $340,000 to the B.C. Liberals, records show.

Postmedia contacted Delesalle, PCI management, and Low Tide management for comment on this story Tuesday, but did not immediately receive responses from any of these parties.

If this goes ahead that's a pretty incredible return on a small investment in the liberal party.

upgunned shitpost
Jan 21, 2015

James Baud posted:

The biggest issue with minimum wage hikes is that we're taking an urban poverty / cost of living issue and applying a fix that also impacts rural areas with far lower costs.

Rural living: great public transit, lower food costs and rock bottom prices on electricity!

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Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

ChickenWing posted:

my dude have you heard of Stiegl

e: jfc did it take me *that* long to read this page

Yes, here I just pulled a 2.5% pamplemousse flavoured extra light beer out of the fridge.



50% juice 50% beer. Just buy beer and juice and mix them together. It's the beer equivalent of people who buy premixed canned rye and coke.

cougar cub posted:

Not listed on liquor connect... Looks like whitewater is not a available in Alberta!

I was being a touch snooty. Ottawa area microbrew but I hear they're in a lot of lcbos now, I'm close enough that they deliver for free

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