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Bubbacub posted:If you tried this against a human player, what's the counter? Stay in cover and flank the LRM boats? Try to work a light or a fast medium inside their minimum range. Evade helps a lot with that. I suppose you could also bum rush them with a heavy or an assault and use your other mechs to keep any defenders off your rear end. The thing that makes LRMs so deadly isn't their damage, range, or even the fact that they spread damage out enough to get a bunch of head shots, it's the knockdown that they do.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:16
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Cyrano4747 posted:Try to work a light or a fast medium inside their minimum range. Evade helps a lot with that. I suppose you could also bum rush them with a heavy or an assault and use your other mechs to keep any defenders off your rear end. I could see where multiplayer becomes an un-fun game of range skirting indirect fire against long ranged sensor locked targets.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:23
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:I could see where multiplayer becomes an un-fun game of range skirting indirect fire against long ranged sensor locked targets. In its current state? Yeah, if we had MP right now it would be LRM hell. I've said it a dozen times so far, and I make it the comment in every survey I submit, but the easy fix is to dial back the stability damage that LRMs do. They're in a good place as far as actually hurting poo poo from range goes, but getting a free pilot hit from falling once a round if you focus with 4 LRM 15s (plus whatever head hits you get from sprinkling 60 LRMs over it - usually 1 or 2) means you can kill the pilot pretty quick. edit: once you got a couple LRM boats it would also trivialize salvaging good mechs in campaign mode. Ammo would be a concern, but they can't make every mission so long that every ammo carrying mech runs out or energy weapons will reign supreme. That's a pretty obvious balance issue, so I assume they're on that, but in the absence of seriously un-fun ammo scarcity the first heavy you see is going to become yours via LRM pilot murder. edit x2: that said I'm guessing they're on this. We've heard right here how apparently flamers were the god kings of poo poo mountain at one point in the alpha, so it's not like they're not used to tweaking OP poo poo. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 22:26
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I think they need to make knockdowns more rare in general but also need to make it so that it takes an action to stand back up. Also they need to make it so that if you use your "move" action, you can still decide to use a "sprint" action instead of firing, like XCOM. Also also when you are doing melee, even if it's not entirely accurate of the math going on in the background, your mech should really shoot then punch. Especially if you're closing the distance. It just looks so awkward right now.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:29
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Internet Explorer posted:I think they need to make knockdowns more rare in general but also need to make it so that it takes an action to stand back up. It's super awkward looking when you punch, then shoot a small laser, and then they fall over after the small laser hit
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Jun 2, 2017 22:30
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Better PPCs would discourage LRM kiting as well.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:36
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Internet Explorer posted:I think they need to make knockdowns more rare in general but also need to make it so that it takes an action to stand back up. Definitely agree on the second two points here. Knockdowns do take an action to stand back up though, it's just effectively half your movement allotment.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:38
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A.o.D. posted:Better PPCs would discourage LRM kiting as well. PPC Damage from 50 to 75 and LRM stability damage down maybe 10-15% would be a great first pass
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Jun 2, 2017 22:38
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Gwaihir posted:Definitely agree on the second two points here. Ah, okay. Sorry for the misinformation. I guess it's just such a small amount it's not noticeable. It should take up a full action. So basically you could stand a move but not sprint. Or stand and shoot but not move. [Edit: If I am going to melee someone and have to move to get in close enough, I want my mech to shoot small lasers and machine guns while running and then punch or shoulder-check. It would look roughly a billion times cooler than it looks now.]
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Jun 2, 2017 22:43
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They need better melee animations I feel My victor was missing its right arm earlier, and every time I meleed it would just make a punching motion and hit with the shoulder stump instead of using the other arm
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Jun 2, 2017 22:49
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Regarding knockdown (again, this is from someone who hasn't downloaded the Beta yet), how do people feel about the stability system vs. piloting roll every 20 DMG? What is the knockdown mechanic? Is it triggered by damage taken, or some kind of stability percentage abstraction? (i.e., LRMs do a certain % per hit?)
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Jun 2, 2017 22:51
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Light mech durability feels about right to me. Unless you get unlucky with where the damage lands, I feel like they can take 2 or 3 good hits before you have to pull back with them and use them cautiously.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:52
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CourValant posted:Regarding knockdown (again, this is from someone who hasn't downloaded the Beta yet), how do people feel about the stability system vs. piloting roll every 20 DMG? I don't know if it's percentage based or what, but basically you just fill up a stability bar. When it gets to 50% you can't sprint and at 100% you fall over. Certain weapons (missiles) cause a lot.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:52
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CourValant posted:Regarding knockdown (again, this is from someone who hasn't downloaded the Beta yet), how do people feel about the stability system vs. piloting roll every 20 DMG? Each weapon and melee strike deals stability damage. When you reach 100% you just fall over. It bleeds off down to 50% naturally if you don't take more, or you can use an action (Brace) to completely clear it all. A Mech typically has 100 stability (Not sure if some have more or less, I'm looking at a Battlemaster atm). Lasers do no stability damage. An AC2 does 5. An AC20 does 15 LRMs do 4 *per missile* SRMs do 8 per.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:55
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Gwaihir posted:
JFC that explains a lot. So each hit with an LRM 15 is like getting hit by 4 AC20s as far as stability goes.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:57
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I agree that knockdowns should be less frequent but more impactful. They don't even do damage to the mech other than a pilot hit.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:00
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It's time for fun with PUNCHBOT 5000
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Jun 2, 2017 23:02
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I do like that we seem to be mostly discussing balance rather than "the game doesn't work"
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Jun 2, 2017 23:03
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Bubbacub posted:If you tried this against a human player, what's the counter? Stay in cover and flank the LRM boats? Probably go with a lance of something fast that can brawl, ideally with jumpjets. Maybe one with Flamers to help reduce the effectiveness of any assault mechs that might be babysitting the lrm boats
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Jun 2, 2017 23:08
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Punchbot 5000 is amazing but I do see a lot of mechs punching with limbs that have been blown off.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:16
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I agree that, as things are right now, LRMs are pretty much the go-to weapon. I managed to use an Urbanmech, two Trebuchets, and a Catapult and actually get a pilot kill on a Centurion. In the aftermath it looks like I would have been able to salvage the whole thing. I don't think that indirect shots should allow the player to target a location, and agree that the stability damage of the LRM is way too high. I think stability damage should be a function of actual damage, with a modifier for the weapon type. Bullets doing the most, lasers none, and missiles and PPCs somewhere in the middle.chutche2 posted:I do like that we seem to be mostly discussing balance rather than "the game doesn't work" I agree. It shows that they did the right thing in waiting to get the beta out. A playable game where players can comment on mechanics is far more useful and rewarding.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:25
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I really like that they're basically making GBS threads surveys at us. I'm sure tied to some sort of analytics of the match we just played. Should hopefully help them get a bunch of good feedback.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:35
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Internet Explorer posted:I really like that they're basically making GBS threads surveys at us. I'm sure tied to some sort of analytics of the match we just played. Should hopefully help them get a bunch of good feedback. Yeah, this is the first dev in a long time to actually use a beta as a beta; I've been filling surveys out after each battle.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:42
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Bubbacub posted:If you tried this against a human player, what's the counter? Stay in cover and flank the LRM boats? With the cost limits currently in the game it wouldn't be too hard, the enemy will have to back up to keep firing on you while you just charge in. Like others have said, the real danger from LRMs isn't the damage, it's the knockdown. Now that I'm sober I ran another match, 1x Atlas, 2x Trebuchets, 1x Commando on loch vs the default Assault load. . I ran the commando up, the enemy did the same so I had LOS. Took out the comps Commando with the trebs and the atlas, my commando ate a bit of damage so I had to back off. From that point on my commando just sat on the backside of a hill and was a sensor lock spammer until there was one enemy left and I decided to run him up to toss in some more damage... got cored the next round lol. Overall it was effectively what I wanted, a light mech just spotting and target locking enemies for me to focus down, I'm just bummed that I had to hide my light in the very back. I'd prefer some way of putting my lights up front in cover/stealth like actual scouts would be instead of running them in the back and just sensor locking stuff. What I'd like to try out is having sensor lock being a built in/mountable hardware on light mechs. Being able to run sensor lock AND evasion would go a long way to making lights more survivable up front and useful for spotting. As is I think you might be just as good running sensor lock on the Atlas in this case as you are with it on the commando. There's potential for harassment play with lots of kiting, but the mobility of the mechs and their lack of range makes me think that kite play might be pretty drat hard to pull off. Colonial Air Force posted:It's a beta, not an early access, and it states right up front that there's no tutorial or any ramp-up help. Then they give you a link to the manual. Yeah and? That's the point of a Beta, to ID issues and QOL improvements. JacksLibido fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 23:44
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I demand more GIFs  The camera worked right for this killcam: https://gfycat.com/RevolvingPlayfulArmedcrab And this is just rude. Crunch goes the Commando head: https://gfycat.com/FlippantNewAmericancicada
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Jun 2, 2017 23:44
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quote isn't edit 
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Jun 2, 2017 23:45
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The LRM animations are a bit wonky at times but I'm loving the game. The Heavy Cavalry preset is loving nasty. It wrecked by victor, two catapults and a commando setup. I then tried the evasive atlas and two trebuchets and did ok, but the altas had seen much better days after. As for the sensor locking+lrm spam issue, why not decrease the range per turn by a certain amount, at least in MP?
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Jun 2, 2017 23:48
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JacksLibido posted:. As is I think you might be just as good running sensor lock on the Atlas in this case as you are with it on the commando. With the caveat that I'm only "pretty sure" how this works ... no. If I'm right, sensor lock is best on lights because of the initiative system. Sensor lock lasts for the entire round and if you put it on your Atlas, which goes last, you get no benefit from the sensor lock because it expires immediately. And double no, because then the Atlas can't shoot that turn, which is a huge loss compared to a Commando or Locust or similar holding fire. Meanwhile, if you put it on a light, which goes first, they can designate a target and all your mediums, heavies, and assaults can take advantage. e: also I think you're hung up on this forward scouting thing a little too much. What do "real" scouts do when the main forces engage? get the gently caress out of the way, lest they get ground up in the middle. So with BT lights. Make contact, go wide. It's totally reasonable for both space 80s robots (what matters) and 'real' tactics with a wholly fictional robot, however you want to slice it. Psion fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 23:49
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Psion posted:I demand more GIFs That's what he gets for piloting a Commando. And yeah, the beta is at proper beta levels of polish. I'd up a bit of feedback here and there and tweak the statistics of some weapons but other than that it is pretty darn solid.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:51
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Psion posted:The camera worked right for this killcam: https://gfycat.com/RevolvingPlayfulArmedcrab Man, that is an infinitely better camera setup than I have seen so far. Hope they can improve upon this a bit. I think it is a large part of why the game feels a little disconnect for me.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:52
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Psion posted:With the caveat that I'm only "pretty sure" how this works ... no. If I'm right, sensor lock is best on lights because of the initiative system. Sensor lock lasts for the entire round and if you put it on your Atlas, which goes last, you get no benefit from the sensor lock because it expires immediately. And double no, because then the Atlas can't shoot that turn, which is a huge loss compared to a Commando or Locust or similar holding fire. Basically all of this. JacksLibido, you seem dead set that you should be able to bull-rush lights in and have them not give a gently caress. For all the buffs lights have gotten, they should not be able to run into a lance of heavier mechs and laugh in their face. Scouting with lights works fine, but they need to stick out on the edges of the fight, where they still provide plenty of info, get their move mods and cover, and can use sensor lock normally to help the rest of the team. Yes, if you want to run your mechs directly into brawling range and fight man mode, you don't want to bring lights. Because they are not and never have been built for that.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:55
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Zaodai posted:Basically all of this. Nooo, don't ruin light tacklemasters, I miss them so from Mechwarrior Online
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Jun 2, 2017 23:56
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evilmiera posted:Nooo, don't ruin light tacklemasters, I miss them so from Mechwarrior Online That should be a pilot ability, where if you move X amount of hexes you can tackle. I'd be fine with that. The light is probably going to still get shot to hell, but hey, TACKLE!
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Jun 2, 2017 23:57
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In 3025 lights are fantastic backstabbers. I love using locusts to do slicing attacks on the tabletop, diving into the fight to get behind something and blowing past everyone next turn. Try that here and you'll probably get someone coring you before you get a chance if you reserve your action unless you're out of LOS. I feel like stuff is a little too accurate against lights, move mods aren't doing enough unless they also have evasive.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:00
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Zaodai posted:Basically all of this. Mechs with a lot of SRMs are pretty good at dealing stability damage, like the standard Commando and Kintaro. Had a nice fight with Com-2D, JR7, SHD-2H and a Lolcust-SRM against 2x Panther, Quickdraw and Lolcust-SRM.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:01
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Is the order of play of enemy mechs in the same phase fixed or randomised? Also AC10s to the back goddamn. loving ended a Victor too eager to wreck my suicide hunchbacks. e; I was always a laser whore starting from playing MW2 at seven years old. AC10 is just too good. My poor poo poo PPC. 
School Nickname fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 00:21
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It feels like mixed messages when you see people posting “Lights are great! They totally own assaults if you get behind them no problem if you use them ‘right’” and then “So I noticed I don’t have to worry about someone shooting up the rear of my Atlas. Please nerf Assaults not dying to flanks”. Pilot death still can’t feel meaningful to me when it’s one caused by the coinflip landing on headshot. loving up and getting mauled because you sent your hunchback out of position, yeah. Rolling your eyes as an AI urbanmech nails your big guy in the face with a headshot from across the map yet again, not so much. No matter how many times people scream how hardcore they are for eating up frequent headcaps and asking for seconds. Most everything else feels pretty drat cool though, even with my fumbling around like an idiot. So that's a nice sign overall for what the end result will look like. PoptartsNinja posted:If they had an open torso section with ammo in it they might have been bracing to prevent an ammo explosion. Skirmish `Mechs might need an "Am I the sole survivor? YOLO!" flag for their AI behavior. But Skirmish mode, neither of you have anything to lose because it’s video games mode. Section Z fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 00:40
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School Nickname posted:My poor poo poo PPC. Yeah, I just took 3 Awesomes into an alpine river match and it took them 4 turns of continuous focused fire to kill a Trebuchet, and that's only because I knocked him down and targeted his center torso. He probably could have lasted two or more rounds past that point if not for the called shot mechanic. PPC's are not in a great place. I'll tell you what is in a great place though: The Orion and the Centurions. Centurions are the nice middle of the road okay at everything mechs they're supposed to be, and the Orion is Most of an Atlas, but you can bring two and a pair of Hunchbacks instead of just the one big skull man. Or a metal babby and an LRM-Jaegermech. There are options, is what I'm saying. Good ones. The Orion DOES run kinda hot though.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:45
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Section Z posted:It feels like mixed messages when you see people posting “Lights are great! They totally own assaults if you get behind them no problem if you use them ‘right’” and then “So I noticed I don’t have to worry about someone shooting up the rear of my Atlas. Please nerf Assaults not dying to flanks”. These things aren't mutually exclusive. The atlas is just an insane armored brick, more so than the other assaults.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:52
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The atlas has more tons of armor than some light mechs have tons of mech.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:56
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