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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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Cerebral Bore posted:lol, loving focus groups. You really are bad at this, aren't you? Focus groups really helped Ed Miliband and Hillary Clinton so I can see his point.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:02
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ronya posted:focus groups mainly ridicule the man. People really don't get focus groups. Probably because focus group results are often used in the media to misrepresent stuff. Polls find out what people think. Focus groups help tell you why people think that way. Currently the polls have Corbyn's popularity within spitting distance of May. He's not wildly unpopular any more.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:06
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I'm not the one carefreely asserting a teflon reputation and/or a reputation for integrity I feel like claims like that require some motivation
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Jun 3, 2017 14:06
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if corbyn had said yes i would retaliate he would have been slaughtered for telling a lie that everyone knows is a lie
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Jun 3, 2017 14:07
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jabby posted:People really don't get focus groups. Probably because focus group results are often used in the media to misrepresent stuff. Focus groups tell you why, sure, they also in the vast majority of political cases end up in overcorrection to try and fix the perception given to them.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:08
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jabby posted:People really don't get focus groups. Probably because focus group results are often used in the media to misrepresent stuff. yes, it's the "why" for the dismal Corbyn polling relative to the Labour brand at large I mean, this element at least is not disputed, surely. even with the Corbyn Bounce the party still polls better than the leader - the main good surprise is that the reverse has happened for May, much to the detriment of clearly quite a lot of campaign planning on the Tory part
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Jun 3, 2017 14:09
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Baron Corbyn posted:Not quite...
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Jun 3, 2017 14:09
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if we're being realistic then yeah the IRA claims will have hit home for a fair few voters, especially since it's the door to door goto. Whether that effect will actually transfer votes to the tories isn't yet known. But it's kinda hard to argue that his reputation is incredibly solid given that the best Crosby can throw at him includes giving media coverage to dating site registration
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Jun 3, 2017 14:09
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ronya posted:yes, it's the "why" for the dismal Corbyn polling relative to the Labour brand at large Have you actually seen the recent polls? Being four points behind May in popularity is not 'dismal'. If I remember correctly he's doing better than Miliband or Brown did at this point. Also the focus group positives that come up for Corbyn are usually his honesty and the fact that he sticks to his principles.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:10
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jabby posted:Have you actually seen the recent polls? Being four points behind May in popularity is not 'dismal'. If I remember correctly he's doing better than Miliband or Brown did at this point. Maybe I'm still in shock from Trump but at this point, I don't even know if favourability as thing matters that much any more.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:11
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The issue again is why do the british public dislike corbyn, and whether these descrepancies are something the Labour party need to fix. There is no need for the entire party to lurch rightward, or far left, to justify the day to day reactions to a guy they don't want to keep around e; to say the Labour party has absolutely no reason to stick its own political dick into any debate about the IRA when Corbyn is actually capable of taking flak endlessly without turning into a gurning android like May
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Jun 3, 2017 14:11
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hell if jeremy corbyn binded Labour into an eternal agreement to pursue full anime communism I'm entirely willing to bet they could play a leftist as a centrist reform candidate afterwards. The public is getting burnt on the old communism man thing.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:14
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It's not that the IRA and nuke stuff didn't damage Corbyn, it's just that it's already factored into public opinion. The IRA stuff was pushed constantly over the last few weeks and the nuke stuff actually came up in last week's interview in almost exactly the same form. I don't see why the same thing happening again would sway those who weren't already swayed last time.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 14:14
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https://twitter.com/parliawint/status/870992355624726529
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Jun 3, 2017 14:20
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knox_harrington posted:This isn't correct. What about the nuclear weapons sharing agreements with Germany, Italy etc? That was an independent strategic decision made by the US, the UK has never agreed to loan nuclear weapons to any third party. We did have a small amount of warheads under dual control with the West Germans (mostly landmines along the IGB) which would have required agreement from both SACEUR and the FDR to detonate, but that's a very different beast from the US lending out a bunch of glide bombs so Belgium can pretend to be relevant on the world stage.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:22
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I think the IRA and Nuke stuff isn't a big deal because nobody thinks we're ever going to actually use a Nuke or be invaded and the IRA has been defunct so long there's people voting this time who don't even know who they are. Immigration, Wages and Healthcare is something people give a poo poo about in an election and matters. If we go into the final stretch hammering them on the Income Tax rise, while they're talking about Trident and the IRA that's fine by me. People give a poo poo about only one of those things. Fans fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 14:25
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Sounds like the British just get mad when you tell them in the scheme of MAD they are quite irrelevant This is true. If nukes are flying at a rate higher than "North Korea gets pissy" what the UK does is absolutely meaningless. POTUS or Putin (maybe the Chinese Premier) saying they wouldn't retaliate is a Big Deal. The UK PM or President of France saying it is not. goddamnedtwisto posted:That was an independent strategic decision made by the US, the UK has never agreed to loan nuclear weapons to any third party. Yeah ultimately the US controlled whether the weapons deployed in Italy, West Germany, Turkey, etc. would be used. The UK and France are the only non-US NATO members that had control of any nuclear weapons as they built theirs independently. They're the only two states that could decided to use nuclear weapons in the event the US said "nah" axeil fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 14:26
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Raeg posted:Maybe I'm still in shock from Trump but at this point, I don't even know if favourability as thing matters that much any more. Trump was viewed more unfavourably yes, but Clinton also had negative favourability ratings too and while Trump divided opinion between adulation and hatred, Clinton mainly ranged for burning hatred to apathetic but a better choice than the alternative in the opinions of most Americans. I guess that can kinda apply to this election too. I honestly am starting to believe that Corbyn might actually end up Prime Minister.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:28
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clinton campaigned on the basis that you shouldn't vote for trump and never gave the electorate a reason to vote for her and the tories are doing the same lol
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Jun 3, 2017 14:29
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peanut- posted:https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/870972949674774529 one point....
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Jun 3, 2017 14:30
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Another reason I'm not worried about Trident and the IRA is because the Conservatives if they're smart are going to be talking nothing but Brexit in the run up to the end because it's the only thing they got going for them. Considering their campaign so far though, I wouldn't be surprised if they could gently caress something that easy up.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:34
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Jose posted:clinton campaigned on the basis that you shouldn't vote for trump and never gave the electorate a reason to vote for her and the tories are doing the same lol people gave her poo poo for not campaigning in the mid west but Big Tess went one step further and didn't campaign anywhere lmao
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Jun 3, 2017 14:34
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Jose posted:clinton campaigned on the basis that you shouldn't vote for trump and never gave the electorate a reason to vote for her and the tories are doing the same lol See also: Literally every Scottish party except the SNP.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:34
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If we're talking about what would happen in a nuclear war I think we should also discuss equally plausible situations such as an alien invasion or if penguins learned how to talk. Why isn't more being said about this? May got torn to pieces over the last U-turn, having two U-turns before the election has even happened is historic levels of failure.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:35
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Fans posted:I think the IRA and Nuke stuff isn't a big deal because nobody thinks we're ever going to actually use a Nuke or be invaded and the IRA has been defunct so long there's people voting this time who don't even know who they are. Well they totally are things give a poo poo about but it's the 65+ range which are already locked in Tory voters. People that are angry that the troubles didn't end with us conquering Ireland. So you're essentially right.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:35
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Spangly A posted:The issue again is why do the british public dislike corbyn, and whether these descrepancies are something the Labour party need to fix. There is no need for the entire party to lurch rightward, or far left, to justify the day to day reactions to a guy they don't want to keep around he would benefit from a lot of public speaking and hostile interview coaching, both in terms of technique, and in terms of practicing off-the-cuff reiteration of what Labour as a party is offering as a platform, and emphasizing which of those points are active campaign messages du jour he could also do with better leader's office staff management but that's not novel. by and large this seems like a crapshoot of appointing different people until some magic combination doesn't persistently screw up. all this would be more fixable if he were younger and had more time. this is quite aside from other party problems - Scotland, Brexit, etc.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:35
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:See also: Literally every Scottish party except the SNP. Literally all the literature I get from Labour and Tories here is "ONLY WE ARE IN POSITION TO KILL THE SNP FOREVER".
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Jun 3, 2017 14:36
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:See also: Literally every Scottish party except the SNP. [the Scottish Green Party opens its mouth to say something, but is interrupted by Nicola and Ruth having a swordfight with flagpoles so nobody even notices]
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Jun 3, 2017 14:37
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That's kinda Scotlands own fault for gleefully embracing one party politics.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:38
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TACD posted:If we're talking about what would happen in a nuclear war I think we should also discuss equally plausible situations such as an alien invasion or if penguins learned how to talk. Failure to take the possibility of nuclear war seriously is also bad.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:39
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Also I'll have you know the political hard-hitters that are the Scottish Christian Party has the very positive message of Proclaiming Christ's Lordship who is going to Proclaim Christ's Lordship without them? Nobody, that's who. And then there will be no record in Holyrood debates of Christ being Proclaimed to be Lord.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:40
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If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2?
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Jun 3, 2017 14:41
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Mr. Flunchy posted:If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2? I don't know, polls have yes losing badly even with the prospect of a Tory Brexit dystopia looming. Surely they'd realise Corbyn's ideals align with a lot of independence leaning courts and could switch them over to no and thrice in a generation vote is an even harder sell to a British government than twice in a generation.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:45
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Mr. Flunchy posted:If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2? The problem for Big Nicky Fish is a Labour government, particularly one under Corbyn, makes Independence a lot less likely and I think she's tactical enough to know that.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:46
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Mr. Flunchy posted:If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2? No.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:46
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Mr. Flunchy posted:If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2? Don't they already have this from the tories? Pre-election the debate was about whether May would try to stall until after Brexit, which would make Scotland being in the wilderness wrt EU much more likely Raeg posted:The problem for Big Nicky Fish is a Labour government, particularly one under Corbyn, makes Independence a lot less likely and I think she's tactical enough to know that. They've already said they would support Corbyn's labour, presumably to bash anyone thinking of a corbyn-motivated Scotlab vote (lol) in the head. I think she's tactical enough to know that jeremy corbyn's going to raise the poo poo out of taxes so she'll have money to spend without needing to be the person raising taxes. That's free political capital, too.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:48
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Mr. Flunchy posted:If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2? Sturgeon says she's ruling out a coalition and would prefer to work on an issue-by-issue basis. I imagine being able to look like they're opposing the Tories is going to be the main priority, unless they want to go the way of the Lib Dems. Honestly, if you want to be cynical about it (not that I don't), the polls don't look that great for the result of the next indyref so finding an excuse to put it off for a while (ho boy snp voters, look at these big ol' concessions we got on these minor issues go us please keep voting for us) might be in their interest. Raeg posted:The problem for Big Nicky Fish is a Labour government, particularly one under Corbyn, makes Independence a lot less likely and I think she's tactical enough to know that. Being seen as allowing a Tory government to happen would make anyone ever voting SNP again much, much less likely though, so that's also a consideration.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:50
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the lib dems have kind of poisoned the well on coalition government. it turns out that even engaged party supporters don't care enough about westminster dramas about who promised who what over lunch. 'tis the problem of a country of sixty-five million rather than five - political tactics that worked in New Zealand turn out not to work in a much bigger country. that still leaves a confidence-and-supply agreement, which was previously poisoned by a liberal minority partner (lol) but has since had its dignity restored by the passage of time (and also a retrospective acknowledgement that scottish turkeys were always going to vote for christmas and they cannot be stopped) ronya fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 15:00
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I'm just excited for the return of people analysing politics like it's football. "It's as if Spurs and Man City put their points together and declared themselves the Premier League champions".
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Jun 3, 2017 15:02
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Baron Corbyn posted:I'm just excited for the return of people analysing politics like it's football. "It's as if Spurs and Man City put their points together and declared themselves the Premier League champions". you see politics is not about who is best at representing the will of the people bit rather a contest for which party has the biggest electoral penis, and the loser can win and furthermore a football team of twenty-two players probably would do pretty well in the Premier League though
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Jun 3, 2017 15:04
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