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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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ronya posted:he would benefit from a lot of public speaking and hostile interview coaching, both in terms of technique, and in terms of practicing off-the-cuff reiteration of what Labour as a party is offering as a platform, and emphasizing which of those points are active campaign messages du jour It sounds like what he needs most is a singing coach  : Jeremy Corbyn Could See Late Surge In Support From Ex-UKIP Voters, HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Findsquote:In a surprising shift, half of one group said they would now consider voting Labour, describing Corbyn as ‘down to earth’, but many were still concerned by his failure to sing the national anthem at a Battle of Britain memorial service in 2015. I think the headline is overly optimistic. I'm not sure many of these people who are 'considering' Labour will actually turn out and vote Labour.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:04
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Raeg posted:Focus groups really helped Ed Miliband and Hillary Clinton so I can see his point. Ignoring most of middle America while pandering to special interest groups lost Hillary the election That and the whole Bernie Sanders Philadelphia Screwjob
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Jun 3, 2017 15:04
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Angepain posted:you see politics is not about who is best at representing the will of the people bit rather a contest for which party has the biggest electoral penis, and the loser can win and furthermore In an AV voting system. the loser can win - The Deceased Rik Mayall.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:06
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I think it was more complacency and trying to run up the score rather than secure the states she needed to win. She won the popular vote, and I think if she targeted campaign resources better she could have won the election.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:08
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it was more complacency and trying to run up the score rather than secure the states she needed to win. She won the popular vote, and I think if she targeted campaign resources better she could have won the election. Ignoring the Rust Belt was her achilles heel
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Jun 3, 2017 15:10
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Angepain posted:
I'm pretty sure that's getting less true in Scotland all the time. There are plenty of SNP supporters who are single issue independence who would absolutely riot at many of the things Labour are suggesting: "progressive alliance" issues are going to be easy on poo poo like tuition fees or prescriptions simply to avoid hypocrisy, but there are still tons of tartan tories in the SNP who would find tax increases totally against their interests and beliefs. If Scottish Labour continues to be a basketcase the SNP's main concern is going to be keeping their right wing from deflecting to the opposition because left leaning SNP supporters are going to have no viable choices, and often rank independence extremely highly. And as little as we like to admit it here (particularly because we have a lot of good will towards the SNP in it's current form and SNP supporters who post here) a Labour government is absolutely against the SNP's interest because the current government allows them the insanely big ideological tent they've enjoyed so far. They'll wind up walking a total tightrope under Corbyn for the reasons outlined above.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:10
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Yeah it's funny because a labour government would obviously be more amenable to the centre-left position the snp have set themselves up in, but it would also be a huge blow to their 'Tory rule!' rhetoric towards independence. So they're in a position where they have to carefully undermine Corbyn while appearing to support him (see the declaration that they would vote confidence - crafty politics because they drag labour voters their way in marginals while inflaming many in England and giving themselves a solid platform as progressives if the Tories win). A narrow labour win would be worst outcome for them because they've committed themselves practically and ideologically to support which would undermine the Indy vote. And even if labour refuse to offer another referendum they can't very well refuse support or they totally expose themselves as Tory enablers and alienate a massive amount of their support base.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:11
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Politics are the worst thing ever devised by man
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Jun 3, 2017 15:16
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Pochoclo posted:Politics are the worst thing ever devised by man Anime
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Jun 3, 2017 15:18
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The absolute dream scenario, of course, being a Lab/SNP coalition/working agreement with Labour doing to the SNP what the Tories did to the Lib Dems.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:19
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CoolCab posted:If Scottish Labour continues to be a basketcase the SNP's main concern is going to be keeping their right wing from deflecting to the opposition because left leaning SNP supporters are going to have no viable choices, and often rank independence extremely highly. I do agree in general that the SNP are going to have a hell of a tightrope to walk if they have to prop up Labour, but I'm not sure about this bit - the Scottish Greens are at least a viable pro-independence option to give seats to in Holyrood (and in the council elections), which is an important battleground for the SNP. Also the SNP membership has made a bit of noise recently on issues like land value taxes which may manage to slowly drag them away from the tartan tory gang, though I imagine that is going to take a while if it happens. But then again, hope is a mistake. Pochoclo posted:Politics are the worst thing ever devised by man 
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Jun 3, 2017 15:22
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Baron Corbyn posted:The absolute dream scenario, of course, being a Lab/SNP coalition/working agreement with Labour doing to the SNP what the Tories did to the Lib Dems. but what big, demographic-critical policy concession could Labour obtain in exchange for a referendum which the SNP then goes on to lose I mean the latter suggests itself but what's the former in this analogy
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Jun 3, 2017 15:23
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Baron Corbyn posted:The absolute dream scenario, of course, being a Lab/SNP coalition/working agreement with Labour doing to the SNP what the Tories did to the Lib Dems. I'm surprised you didn't tear something reaching that far, holy poo poo. What does that analogy even mean?!
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Jun 3, 2017 15:23
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:I'm surprised you didn't tear something reaching that far, holy poo poo. What does that analogy even mean?! I'm going to guess it means "utterly discredit them as a political party and take back all their seats"
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Jun 3, 2017 15:25
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Spangly A posted:I'm going to guess it means "utterly discredit them as a political party and take back all their seats" But there's a fairly big overlap between policies SNP voters and Labour (not SLab) voters would agree on. It's barely even comparable to the Lib Dem/Tory coalition, where they basically had no policies in common.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:27
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Doorstepping today. Most bizarre was a "National Front and BNP all my life but I like your lad Corbyn." Apart from that a lot of "I never vote" or "I don't like Corbyn but May is even shitter"
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Jun 3, 2017 15:27
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seems legit
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Jun 3, 2017 15:27
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:seems legit But remember, it's apparently Labour with the "magic money tree" ideas.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:28
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:seems legit love too self own in my none inflation adjusted memes by showing how we've cut education spending
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Jun 3, 2017 15:30
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:seems legit it's amazing that the deficit was higher, unemployment was higher, GDP was lower and less money was being spent on things two years into a recession, who would have possibly thunk it
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Jun 3, 2017 15:30
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:seems legit I really can't stand dirty poo poo like this. "here are some bigger numbers, please forget we've somehow broken each of these services while apparently spending more". It's meaningless.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:32
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Angepain posted:it's amazing that the deficit was higher, unemployment was higher, GDP was lower and less money was being spent on things two years into a recession, who would have possibly thunk it Also, inflation is a thing, they should look it up
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Jun 3, 2017 15:33
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Baron Corbyn posted:The absolute dream scenario, of course, being a Lab/SNP coalition/working agreement with Labour doing to the SNP what the Tories did to the Lib Dems. Unlikely scenario that, because it doesn't address the abysmal uselessness of Scottish Labour. Which is a disaster so big that even Jeremy Corbyn can't fix it. Hell, ronya's Lord & Saviour Tony Blair couldn't invigorate that complacent mess. Angepain posted:Also I'll have you know the political hard-hitters that are the Scottish Christian Party has the very positive message of Proclaiming Christ's Lordship Their candidate in Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey thinks that The Lord also wants us to proclaim "SNP BAD" along with Christ's Lordship, & think he's the man to do that. He's such a prick (& not for his anti-SNP stance, for his general fundie bigotry)
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Jun 3, 2017 15:33
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Angepain posted:I do agree in general that the SNP are going to have a hell of a tightrope to walk if they have to prop up Labour, but I'm not sure about this bit - the Scottish Greens are at least a viable pro-independence option to give seats to in Holyrood (and in the council elections), which is an important battleground for the SNP. If the left vote in Scotland winds up split between three parties then any motivation they have to try and keep their left dissolves completely, and I imagine many leftist SNP supporters are going to be very aware of this. The Greens and maybe even Labour will make gains in PR systems which will hurt any independence hopes even more and wind up utterly decimating any representation they have in Parliament. quote:Also the SNP membership has made a bit of noise recently on issues like land value taxes which may manage to slowly drag them away from the tartan tory gang, though I imagine that is going to take a while if it happens. But then again, hope is a mistake. Dragging themselves away from the tartans is absolutely their core issue. The SNP's main strength and their major weakness is the exact same thing: they have an unprecedentedly wide appeal in Scotland as they capture nearly everyone who wants Scottish independence, which is a broad loving spectrum. If they alienate their right wing they lose that absolute dominance, and risk allowing one of the unionist parties to try to grab the entire unionist vote, which is happening right now.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:35
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forkboy84 posted:Unlikely scenario that, because it doesn't address the abysmal uselessness of Scottish Labour. Which is a disaster so big that even Jeremy Corbyn can't fix it. Hell, ronya's Lord & Saviour Tony Blair couldn't invigorate that complacent mess. that's what makes it an "absolute dream" scenario. I guess it would rely on Corbyn being a good enough Prime Minister to encourage more intelligent and competent Scottish people involved in the party but I still have doubts about his ability as a leader even as my doubts about his capability of winning the election. Gyro Zeppeli posted:But there's a fairly big overlap between policies SNP voters and Labour (not SLab) voters would agree on. It's barely even comparable to the Lib Dem/Tory coalition, where they basically had no policies in common. this, on the other hand, makes it more or less likely. Yeah, a lot of the more left wing SNP voters would probably agree with most of Corbyn's supporters on policy decisions. Corbyn-led Labour is closer to both sets of supporters in actual ideology and not just in rhetoric.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:42
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Is there a good measure of how many SNP voters would be put off by a leftward shift? I know some of the actual MPs/MSPs are shits but someone is at least telling most of them to pretend not to be, and my general impression is the SNP messaging has been keeping up a broadly left-of-centre rhetoric for a while and it's not put too many people off.CoolCab posted:The Greens and maybe even Labour will make gains in PR systems which will hurt any independence hopes even more and wind up utterly decimating any representation they have in Parliament. And this may be a nitpick, but are you saying the Greens gaining would hurt independence hopes? If so, how?
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Jun 3, 2017 15:42
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forkboy84 posted:Unlikely scenario that, because it doesn't address the abysmal uselessness of Scottish Labour. Which is a disaster so big that even Jeremy Corbyn can't fix it. Hell, ronya's Lord & Saviour Tony Blair couldn't invigorate that complacent mess. be fair - he put them in that mess to begin with. Without New Labour there wouldn't even be a Scottish Parliament for the SNP to grab a foothold to begin with. Like many other planks of the Blairite project, not much thought was put into succession issues. The move toward English regional assemblies stalled after North East England rejected it.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:46
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Angepain posted:
Because while they're pro-independence, it's nowhere near as important an issue to them and they can't be relied upon like SNP MSPs are. Dominance of Holyrood is one of the SNP's strongest assets both towards pushing for another referendum and generally, and again, if they're ever forced to make concessions to the Greens to achieve their goals they start alienating their base.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:48
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https://twitter.com/FisherAndrew79/status/871015082712551424 enough for 10 ed stones
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Jun 3, 2017 15:50
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ronya posted:be fair - he put them in that mess to begin with. Without New Labour there wouldn't even be a Scottish Parliament for the SNP to grab a foothold to begin with. And I'd regard Holyrood as one of Tony's few positive lasting legacies!
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Jun 3, 2017 15:54
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:seems legit 
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Jun 3, 2017 16:03
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Doorstepping today. Most bizarre was a "National Front and BNP all my life but I like your lad Corbyn." Apart from that a lot of "I never vote" or "I don't like Corbyn but May is even shitter" Why would the guy admit that?
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Jun 3, 2017 16:04
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Doorstepping today. Most bizarre was a "National Front and BNP all my life but I like your lad Corbyn." Lets hope he doesn't see a copy of the Chakrabarti report before polling day.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:07
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Namtab posted:Why would the guy admit that? one of my parent's neighbours still had a BNP poster prominently displayed in his window last time I went back (2015).
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Jun 3, 2017 16:07
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poo poo the minimum wage one is maybe the most egregious bit of figure-fudging of the lot. Oh gee a 21p rise in seven years of conservative leadership! That's three whole pence a year!!!! 
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Jun 3, 2017 16:09
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thehappyprince posted:https://twitter.com/FisherAndrew79/status/871015082712551424 They should build an Ed Stonehenge.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:09
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So, I took the liberty of applying inflation to that garbage image, it looks a bit better now, for a post-crisis government, don't you think? Also, this doesn't apply 2017 inflation 
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Jun 3, 2017 16:10
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Hey if the racists want to vote for Corbyn over Theresa "check my tenure as home sec" May I'll take it.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:11
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Namtab posted:Why would the guy admit that? The main difference is a commitment to human rights and diversity and that all the dogs in the street don't start barking when I open it.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:11
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| # ? May 14, 2024 08:26 |
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Namtab posted:Why would the guy admit that? Pretty standard anti-establishment populist, really. If your primary motivations in the BNP or the National Front are "because the establishment clearly despise them and the establishment is screwing me" or "because they make concrete promises of more British investment, jobs, dealing with poverty, etc" (actually I'm more sure that's true of the BNP instead of the NF but it's pretty common fash tactics) then liking Corbyn is perfectly consistent. Like every political party, there are whole spectrums of reasons people like fash parties - maybe the 1950s they want to bring back includes the Attlee policies as well as throwing bricks at brown people.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:12
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