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Megasabin posted:Aren't you the the dude who just posted a page ago before you even saw the movie, whining about how there's no way the movie justified it's RT score, and suggesting it was a conspiracy? It's cute that you think this film is a masterpiece. And please, explain how the antagonists in here were anything but mustasche-twirling stock villains so we can all laugh at you.
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Jun 3, 2017 02:53
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LionArcher posted:That's not true. Sword fights are good. First act Great, third act good. A lot of not so thinly veiled sexism in a lot of the criticism What exactly is sexist about saying the third act is bad or that the sword fights sucked???
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Jun 3, 2017 03:43
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Chris Pine was so drat good in this movie, it's almost a shame that if he was gonna do a DCEU role, it was this one. I mean, it almost feels like a waste that you're not getting two or three movies with this guy. The movie is at its best from when Wondy steps into No Man's Land to when they leave the village. It never gets quite that good again, but man that stretch of time is really good. Well, it briefly gets good when Diana is about to say Tanks a Lot to Dr. Maru.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:13
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what sword does WW use in BvS? Was the one she took just some prop?
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Jun 3, 2017 04:13
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VJeff posted:Chris Pine was so drat good in this movie, it's almost a shame that if he was gonna do a DCEU role, it was this one. I mean, it almost feels like a waste that you're not getting two or three movies with this guy. I'm pretty sure it was reported that he signed up for a multi-picture deal with DCEU when it was announced. https://www.moviefone.com/2015/07/29/chris-pine-joins-wonder-woman-in-multi-picture-dc-universe-deal/ http://www.thewrap.com/chris-pine-closes-deal-to-star-opposite-gal-gadot-in-wonder-woman-exclusive/ So he is either coming back in flashbacks or maybe WW will use her god-magic to bring him back to life or something.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:29
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Yaws posted:Oh wow, I guess this means WW will be forgotten the second one leaves the theater. The alternative was for it to be remembered for the bad taste in left in people's mouths, ala BvS.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:32
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So about the ending. The read I got was that killing Ares didn't end the war, or at least not directly. The point of the story was that the war was almost over anyway but Luttendorf and Maru were trying to extend it with the tools Ares indirectly gave them. With Luttendorf dead and Ares no longer whispering the recipe for super weapons to anybody, Germany surrendered. It wasn't that killing Ares ended the war for the reasons Diana thought it would, but that he would've kept finding ways to indirectly extend it by finding people like Luttendorf and Maru and whispering spark notes on superweapons to them. Am I off base here?
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Jun 3, 2017 04:46
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VJeff posted:So about the ending. The read I got was that killing Ares didn't end the war, or at least not directly. The point of the story was that the war was almost over anyway but Luttendorf and Maru were trying to extend it with the tools Ares indirectly gave them. With Luttendorf dead and Ares no longer whispering the recipe for super weapons to anybody, Germany surrendered. It wasn't that killing Ares ended the war for the reasons Diana thought it would, but that he would've kept finding ways to indirectly extend it by finding people like Luttendorf and Maru and whispering spark notes on superweapons to them. Am I off base here? No you're absolutely correct. Ares was using Lutterndorf and Maru to both extend and enhance the violence of war. He also arguably enabled Steve to go out and get caught which would also ruin peace talks. Most of the confusion from the thread is how everything's presented immediately after Ares' death, with both sides suddenly turning all buddy-buddy.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:51
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Yeah I can see how you'd see the smiling German soldiers and be like "okay so are they good guys now?" but I thought about it for a sec and I realized -- they're not like, breaking out of Ares' influence, they're just relieved that the fire and lightning murder godfest didn't kill them all.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:54
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VJeff posted:Yeah I can see how you'd see the smiling German soldiers and be like "okay so are they good guys now?" but I thought about it for a sec and I realized -- they're not like, breaking out of Ares' influence, they're just relieved that the fire and lightning murder godfest didn't kill them all. Yeah that's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:15
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Spoiler free review: Wonder Woman kicks rear end. If that's what you want to see you won't be disappointed. I really loved watching her courageously do courageous things. Thoughts on the third act topic of debate, major spoilers ... If you want a feel good ending, the movie is fine as is. However, if you prefer a more philosophical and melancholy ending, just mentally erase every scene with Sir Patrick as Ares. This leaves Ludendorff as Ares. She kills him but the war doesn't stop and that's how she became so disillusioned that she could retreat from the world of man. I like that they included a moral lesson for the story: Super heroes can do a lot of things but they can't prevent humans from fighting each other. It's up to all of us regular people to create a peaceful world.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:36
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With the exception of how it basically contradicts what she says in BvS aside, and even then who cares except nerds writing about it on forums, I didn't think any part of this movie was bad. The aesop was hokey, but they handled Diana's character development surprisingly well, so it compensated for that a bit. Heck even the big dumb fight at the end fed into the overall message. That said, they did fumble the whole "walked away from a century of horrors" bit, but again, who cares. Hope Justice League doesn't suck, cause while I like BvS and MoS more than most, Snyder's movies are bad, I'm sorry. Opinions: too much slow motion flipping around a bunch does not improve your archery the lasso was somehow not lame Patty Jenkins likes closeups Glad that Gal Gadot being pretty was a minor plot point the fish out water humor worked well the cast of ethnic party members was handled well that boat must have beenLittlefinger's considering they sailed from Greece to London in the space of one transition
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Jun 3, 2017 06:44
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BrianWilly posted:I do agree that the themes get a wee bit muddled when we're forced to pair this up with BvS. I think what Jenkins is trying to go for here is a sense that, yes, Diana did say she walked away from mankind in that film...but that's only a fraction of the story. She can have walked away, but still be fighting. She can have given up on people, but still believe in them. This final act tries its utmost to make it so that it's not an either-or situation, that these aren't mutually-exclusive concepts. It almost gets there, with the whole "there is light and darkness and I accept both" compromise. But I think the themes just get that little bit too confused and unclear at the end so that it's not exactly a wholly satisfying conclusion either way. Yeah it's really starting to feel like WW's line in BvS is going to get the "Darth Vader killed your father" treatment where it was only really true in one very specific sense. Also she does say at the end of the film that she decided not to return to Themyscira. BrianWilly posted:Which reminds me that I don't understand people saying WW doesn't kill anyone, 'cuz yeah those two dudes are super dead. Also at the very end when she goes all Super Saiyan during the fight with Ares she absolutely destroys a platoon of German dudes.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:50
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Reactions all over the place... I would've minded the CGI-fest more had the Ares 'twist' been handled poorly. I am all about Ares as a would-be agent of peace who lets the humans around him stumble into war. Remember how he kept getting interrupted in an earlier meeting of generals? That was a great touch. Also, would have been annoyed at Steve's last words being spelled out like they were, except they give his death a different context to Diana as sacrifice made in the name of love. If he'd died as a matter of random chance/cruelty, that'd be a heartbreaker, but as an act of heroism? Okay, time to fight the good fight and break out of the metal box of BDSM. Did the sniper ever shoot anyone? Cool if he didn't, more parties could use a bard. I remember some wisecracks earlier in this thread about the movie treating World War I with too light a hand. Talk about selective viewing! This movie took on PTSD, wounded veterans (notice the outgoing soldiers are singing rally songs, but the returning are barely comprehensible), cruelties of war, bombing of civilian targets... It may not have shown literal mounds of bodies, but it didn't cover up what a massive tragedy the whole conflict was, either. Horses getting unnecessarily whipped and everything! Oh hey, a Native (Canadian) actor/character who doesn't die upon introduction. Take that, Suicide Squad! I would love if Wonder Woman 2 covers World War 2, with Diana fighting the rest of the Gods as they've all taken bets on the war and want it to play out. The kids at my local theater were impressed with the movie and would react out loud to action scenes and Dr. Poison's mask. That's an upcoming generation of moviegoers who will expect more inspirational leading super-ladies woop woop!
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Jun 3, 2017 06:58
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My review: movie is ok. Diana herself is very well done, so there's great potential for the next WW movie if they let some good writers do their thing. I agree with most that the highlights of the movie are in the first half towards the middle. If they gave the movie a better more memorable last ten or fifteen minutes even, it would've left a better impression for me. Random thought on how to end it (with lots of spoilers), Have her do something notable in modern day at the end, instead of just that pose shot. I know she's not Batman so just stopping some mugger may seem passe, but something like that would have been cool, or doing other heroic stuff. And her looking around the city and commenting on it a bit or something. Just seemed like boss got killed, movie ended within 10 minutes it felt. For a two and a half hour movie, you can play around with pacing and formula a bit, movie doesn't have to end just because they won the thingy. Plus that thingy wasn't that interesting anyway. Although David Thewlis is great, wild to think the villain from Dragonheart is still getting a part like this 20 years later. And he's the giggling guy from The Big Lebowski, points for that. Steve's sacrifice could have been done in a more satisfying and emotional way, just watch a great HK action movie from the 80s and 90s, they pull the heartstrings like crazy. Steve's here was just kind of odd and ineffective to me. In general, if they stuck the landing a bit more, did a couple things better, this would go from a decent movie to a good one, but that's just my take. And watch Crocodile Dundee by the way folks, it's a good movie. If the comedy and romance aspect of this movie appeals to you, why haven't you seen that. Hell, Mannequin too. For great peace loving heroes who are shocked and outraged at killing, getting that heroic blood pumping, I recommend some Rurouni Kenshin too. The anime is great, and the recent live-action trilogy was very good. This movie played it safe and was somewhat successful at it, pretty similar movie to Captain America 1, but they've gotta do something really cool with the next WW movie to make this a franchise. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 07:04
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Putting these Super Heroes in real life historical wars really underlines how hokey all this stuff is. This whole movie was cheesy as gently caress. Not an inherently bad thing if that's your thing.
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Jun 3, 2017 07:07
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nelson posted:I like that they included a moral lesson for the story: Super heroes can do a lot of things but they can't prevent humans from fighting each other. It's up to all of us regular people to create a peaceful world. I think that more than anything I appreciate that WW feels like a different type of hero than what we've had. We see that with The crossing of No Man's Land, Diana's not just saving the day but enabling mankind to accomplish greater things. I like that, it might be why I enjoyed that scene so much. Probably also ties in to her monologue at the end but I'm bad with words and don't want to try.
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Jun 3, 2017 07:08
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Also at the very end when she goes all Super Saiyan during the fight with Ares she absolutely destroys a platoon of German dudes. That part bothered me because she gets a literal aura of power that destroys everything around her and charges in a mad rage... at some mortals whose bullets she continues to carefully block one by one and then she kicks and punches them until they fall down one by one. I needed those dudes to, at minimum, have their weapons just liquefy in their hands while their bodies were scattered by raw qi pressure.
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Jun 3, 2017 07:52
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nelson posted:I like that they included a moral lesson for the story: Super heroes can do a lot of things but they can't prevent humans from fighting each other. It's up to all of us regular people to create a peaceful world. Someone hasn't watched Watchmen  Aurubin posted:that boat must have beenLittlefinger's considering they sailed from Greece to London in the space of one transition They try to explain it by Steve saying that they came across that motor boat that is towing them while Diana was sleeping. Heavy Metal posted:And watch Crocodile Dundee by the way folks, it's a good movie. If the comedy and romance aspect of this movie appeals to you, why haven't you seen that. Hell, Mannequin too. Mannequin Two is a classic, a fairy tale done in cheesy 80's romance/comedy glory.
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Jun 3, 2017 08:59
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Meshach Taylor is/was a goddamn national treasure.
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Jun 3, 2017 09:04
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To everyone wondering what the generals magic strength gas was, if I had to make a educated comic book nerd guess I would say that it was some sort of proto venom. I can just imagine there was some idiot WB exec saying "You need to spell this out and tie to to batman!"
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Jun 3, 2017 10:56
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Ape Agitator posted:They could use a sequel, but several possible avenues are closed off. she's not allowed back to Amazonia because laws, the movie had some sadness but otherwise suggests mankind is very much worth fighting for and can be saved, and that she has the ability and duty to do something when others won't. It's a serious writing challenge to square everything. The best, maybe only, option is to ignore that line and have adventures and help in WW2 but somehow be unnoticed (maybe fight in Hiroshima in bomb-eve) and then hide because someone she loves or trusts betrays her or the Amazons. I think you could see her skipping Nam for something like that, just anything other than the drat holocaust. She ascended into full godhood at the end there, so I'm pretty sure she can go back to the island whenever she wants. I garuntee you that Wonder Woman 2 will have her fighting Nazi occultists who are summonging demons Hellboy style. After all, in BVS she says she's killed things from other worlds before and I don't think Ares counts. So it's either demons or aliens. By the way, I loved the movie.
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Jun 3, 2017 12:49
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Rhygezenguro posted:I think that more than anything I appreciate that WW feels like a different type of hero than what we've had. We see that with The crossing of No Man's Land, Diana's not just saving the day but enabling mankind to accomplish greater things. I like that, it might be why I enjoyed that scene so much. That was my favorite scene in the whole movie. I couldn't find the words to express my emotion watching it.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:19
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nelson posted:That was my favorite scene in the whole movie. I couldn't find the words to express my emotion watching it. Yeah, it was really, really powerful. The cinematography there, the music, Gal... everything was just immensely fantastic, and it's easily up there with the Joker Tumbler chase and Spider-man 2 train as one of my favorite superhero scenes. I'll admit to tearing up a bit, and I'm just a nerdy dude that likes superheroes. I can only imagine how women who have waited 75 years for this will feel about it. It really, truly felt like there was so much more beyond the movie leading up to it, and Patty directed it perfectly.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:41
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Liked the movie a lot, it's not perfect but it's a solid hero movie. The desire for this movie, particularly among women, was really apparent in my screening; lots of "woo!"s and cheering during No Man's Land and (my favorite) an applause break when she scolded the generals for being cowards hiding in their offices while soldiers died. Gal Gadot was incredibly charming, so much so that some of the closeups seemed excessive and bordered on hammy mugging, but that might just be my taste.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:55
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Terrible Horse posted:Gal Gadot was incredibly charming, so much so that some of the closeups seemed excessive and bordered on hammy mugging, but that might just be my taste. I've seen a few other goons mention the closeups, too. Gal talks about them a bit in recent interviews. Apparently she was very heavily pregnant by the time they needed to do reshoots, so they were forced to do a lot of tight, waist-up shots or otherwise use a green-screen over her stomach.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:59
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/06/02/i_wish_wonder_woman_were_as_feminist_as_it_thinks_it_is.html Wonder Woman was raped.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:28
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I really enjoyed this, but, man, Zack Snyder really set the bar for massive CGI demigod rumbles. Like the last two Captain America movies, the hero taking apart faceless fascists is a blast, but the action goes to hell when it gets too big.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:41
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Sir Kodiak posted:I really enjoyed this, but, man, Zack Snyder really set the bar for massive CGI demigod rumbles. Like the last two Captain America movies, the hero taking apart faceless fascists is a blast, but the action goes to hell when it gets too big. Winter Soldier was fun, but hoooly poo poo it crapped out every time a big CGI set piece happened. Big gray objects rendered with second rate effects. Maybe the worst use of CG in any Marvel movie come to think of it.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:07
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I didn't like the movie. The third act feels like two different versions of the story thrown together haphazardly with the main villains motives and methods especially confused. The geography of the action is likewise hilariously condensed with everything a minor horse ride away from each other and the war disappearing entirely after one admittedly strong action set piece in the trenches. Too much of it feat like it was written for an earlier script about WW2 and then pushed backwards onto WW1 when someone said it made it too much like Captain America. I watched it with mys sister, she felt the blatant change of Greek mythology to be more judeo-christian was especially egregious, neither of us were a fan of the pointlessness of the framing device.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:11
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farraday posted:I watched it with mys sister, she felt the blatant change of Greek mythology to be more judeo-christian was especially egregious, neither of us were a fan of the pointlessness of the framing device. I was happy to forgive Zeus and Ares being given a god-and-the-devil bent to make it more approachable, given that they had the guts to make them actual gods, be responsible for the creation of mankind, etc., as compared to Thor's cop out with the Norse gods just being super-science aliens. I wonder if confirmed-Christian Superman is going to have any questions about that when he inevitably returns from the dead.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:23
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farraday posted:Too much of it feat like it was written for an earlier script about WW2 and then pushed backwards onto WW1 when someone said it made it too much like Captain America. Well it's a good thing that a handsome army captain didn't make a poorly heard farewell to the love of his life and then sacrifice himself ensuring that a huge metal airplane filled with a dangerous new superweapon was destroyed, thus stopping the evil Germans from wiping a major city off the map and altering the course of the war because that would certainly draw comparisons to Captain America!! PS: we didn't see Cpt. Steve Trevor die so he'll no doubt return at some point, probably after being put through stasis for a while
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Jun 3, 2017 17:23
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Saw it tonight. What a mixed bag. I'd put it maybe on the level of Man of Steel. PROS: Pine and Gadot have decent chemistry, and their adventures in London are pretty fun. Middle film action scenes are fun. I especially like that this film dodges the "born sexy yesterday" trap where the fish-out-of-water woman is naive and needs the worldly man to show her the ropes. Sure, Steve guides her through the modern western world, but Diana questions this world and calls its bullshit out, bullshit Steve doesn't have good explanations for. Also, the the Ares reveal was pretty well done. His monologue did a pretty good job of creating a sense of hopelessness. CONS: - This gas is so deadly, it cracks glass and disintegrates leather! But you can inhale it partially while wandering close to a clearly visible cloud of this gas without getting much more than a cough. - Music was on the nose every time it wanted an emotion - Hey, we slow danced, I guess that means we fall in love and sleep together - CGI laser light show final fight - often not enough time spent letting information sink in, characters reacting, or properly introducing new ideas - Ares saying that he's not responsible for the war, humans are is undercut by him dying and the war suddenly being over Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 17:25
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Sir Kodiak posted:as compared to Thor's cop out with the Norse gods just being super-science aliens. This is what they are in the comics.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:31
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Neo Rasa posted:This is what they are in the comics. I'm talking about movies.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:33
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Seems refreshing that Greek Satan isn't Hades. They'll probably save him for the sequel
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Jun 3, 2017 17:40
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Is the DC vanity plate new? I dig it.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:54
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Everyone knows Kratos is the god of war.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:58
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The more I think about it, the more this movie's ending doesn't really contradict what we hear in BvS at all. It just plays a trick where it has the emboldened, present-day Diana narrate to you while you're still watching the WW1-era Diana look around at the movie's aftermath, such that you think you've just seen a happy ending when in point of fact our character is probably still frustrated and ready to withdraw.
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Jun 3, 2017 19:38
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Tenzarin posted:Everyone knows Kratos is the god of war. You have to admit, that would have been a pretty phenomenal tie-in/reveal. DIANA! *circle button prompt magically appears over Wonder Woman's head*
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