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ANYWAY. This movie was good. I do think the third act has a couple of problems, mostly structural, and it's kind of a shame that Etta Candy doesn't do anything in the story. But it's pretty drat good. (I suspect this also had a few cuts for time since it's drat long as is, and some of the characters may have been fleshed out more, but that's for the Blu Ray I suppose.) Gal Gadot gives a fine performance, I think they managed to handle the "fish out of water" stuff in a way that doesn't make her look stupid.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:12
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The Donner Superman sucks Lois Lane's memories out through a kiss and beats up mortal bullies in a petty act of vengeance. That's Lester's Superman.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:17
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Maxwell Lord posted:But that's the thing- if that's the conflict, then it's completely unresolved. Superman does not defeat capitalism in BvS, and he likely never will as long as WB wants to make superhero movies- but then, neither does the film say he CAN'T destroy the corrupt world order, he just gets sidetracked saving everyone from a giant alien monster. True, it's unresolved. But it's a franchise, and to me it's the more interesting ongoing problem, that's worth some difficulty in resolving, than the buildup to some big bad (though ideally they'll both be interrelated with Superman's inevitable resurrection). If we get through his resurrection in Justice League and, more importantly, Man of Steel 2 without it going somewhere I'll be disappointed then. DC Murderverse posted:Interestingly, the MCU has stayed away from that particular trope, probably for the benefit of everyone who was sick of it. It's kinda the plot of Thor 2, and you see some of it in Iron Man 3 with Tony's suits taking over his life. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 05:18
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Maxwell Lord posted:Has he really changed the world, though? Like in the context of the DC movies, for the "present day" to be recognizable, it's still going to be a capitalist-dominated world with corrupt billionaires and dysfunctional governments and international terrorism and all that. Throughout BvS he's still mostly doing "rescue" operations, saving people from bad things that have happened, which is good, but he's not shaking the fundamental pillars of power. Even Luthor is just one guy, when he's put in jail at the end that's not the end of Silicon Valley douchebags. Hes changed the world by making himself known as a dude who is an alien god, who cares about humanity. He changed the world by saving all of humanity from being murdered, probably twice. Like, he's not going to put the world into a bottle or anything or become a dictator, what are you thinking he should do to change the world, carve out his own country, Supermanistan, and lead by example?
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Jun 5, 2017 05:20
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Sir Kodiak posted:True, it's unresolved. But it's a franchise, and to me it's the more interesting ongoing problem, that's worth some difficulty in resolving, than the buildup to some big bad (though ideally they'll be interrelated with Superman's inevitable resurrection). If we get through his resurrection in Justice League and, more importantly, Man of Steel 2 without it going somewhere I'll be disappointed then. Well, I mean, if we take the end point of what we all want is the destruction of the capitalist order and the abolition of want and poverty worldwide... I mean it's POSSIBLE they could get away with that but I'm not convinced that's the direction the DCCU is going.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:21
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RBA Starblade posted:“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" That was written in 1954. Expectations change. Also, yeah, Tolkien was kind of a lovely writer.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:23
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well, I mean, if we take the end point of what we all want is the destruction of the capitalist order and the abolition of want and poverty worldwide... I mean it's POSSIBLE they could get away with that but I'm not convinced that's the direction the DCCU is going. What if Man of Steel... was a benevolent dictator?
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Jun 5, 2017 05:24
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Tell thee, Macduff was from his mother's womb untimely ripp'd.Maxwell Lord posted:Well, I mean, if we take the end point of what we all want is the destruction of the capitalist order and the abolition of want and poverty worldwide... I mean it's POSSIBLE they could get away with that but I'm not convinced that's the direction the DCCU is going. I don't disagree, I'm just not willing to condemn it until it happens. Well, what I would say is that I do think that's the direction the DCCU is going if we just look at the movies, but I'd agree I don't necessarily expect WB to actually have it happen. Particularly if Snyder completely leaves the franchise, though I could see George Miller successfully picking up the ball as far as that goes.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:29
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Ape Agitator posted:All that works fine in the context of the finale but it's a dark film for plenty of reason before the ending conflict. And you can have a sincere film that is dark just like you can make one realistic and grounded that is also dark. I'm just saying that given any opportunity to present a scenario common to the Superman or superhero film genre, they chose a dark one. Every interaction is one of violence, from where ship computers try and kill people and require destruction before having a conversation, where the joy of flight is about destroying mountain tops. If you have to remove the fathers from Superman, it can't be in the death of their planet but from being stabbed or forcing a wife and child to witness it while being fully able to stop it. The idea that he can hide his secret is demonstrated by cowering before bullies he could easily defeat. But then you have to drive the notion to it's absolute absurd extreme by killing his dad who makes him watch his dad demonstrate heroism in a version of "do as I say, not as I do". And you get the threaten Martha thing in both movies. I think I'd draw the line at the "destroying mountain tops" part somehow indicating the film's propensity for darkness and cynicism, though. In complete seriousness: no one cares about some rando mountain in Antarctica. Clark loving up some arbitrary landscapes as he tests his flight for the first time doesn't really come across as "violence" to me as it does "inexperience," especially when it's sandwiched between the rest of that uplifting scene. Also, it was kinda funny. Now, if he were testing his powers in a rural area, that'd be a different story.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:33
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well, I mean, if we take the end point of what we all want is the destruction of the capitalist order and the abolition of want and poverty worldwide... I mean it's POSSIBLE they could get away with that but I'm not convinced that's the direction the DCCU is going. ironically, looking at the opening Krypton scene today, it very much looks like Jor-El was a leftist Kryptonian scientist who was right about everything (re: climate change and alternative energy), and Zod was basically Krypton Richard Spencer, and both of them hated the government for being useless but Jor-El wouldn't work with Zod because of his weird fascination with bloodlines and purity. Unfortunately, the Syfy series Krypton will probably not explore that very fertile story base for their show because it is written by David Goyer, who one can definitely surmise is probably not the biggest fan of leftist politics.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:38
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Steve Yun posted:That's Lester's Superman. Oh, sorry, you're right! I should have collectively referred to them by Reeve instead, I guess. 
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Jun 5, 2017 05:41
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BrianWilly posted:I think I'd draw the line at the "destroying mountain tops" part somehow indicating the film's propensity for darkness and cynicism, though. In complete seriousness: no one cares about some rando mountain in Antarctica. Clark loving up some arbitrary landscapes as he tests his flight for the first time doesn't really come across as "violence" to me as it does "inexperience," especially when it's sandwiched between the rest of that uplifting scene. Also, it was kinda funny. It's a symptom of this whole sickness though. We've seen what we think is decay beneath the surface so now we have to dig to find every possible trace of it. But no it's the movie's fault that we're all of a sudden worried about mountains being damage or gazelles being startled 
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Jun 5, 2017 05:43
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Snowman_McK posted:That was written in 1954. Expectations change. Whoa whoa whoa. Part of what made that line great in 1954 was that there was a twist after that twist. You thought that the prophecy twist was that Eowyn wasn't a man, she was a woman, but then Merry jumps into the battle and stabs the Witch King's knee, which lets Eowyn kill him. Merry was also not a man according to the prophecy, Merry was a hobbit. This is something that appeared to fly over the film screenwriters' heads as well.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:48
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Steve Yun posted:Whoa whoa whoa. Part of what made that line great in 1954 was that there was a twist after that twist. Uh, the sequence of events in the movie is: Eowyn stands between Witch-King and Theoden. Eowyn chops off the dwimmerlaik's head. Eowyn duels the Witch-King. The Witch-King smashes her shield and knocks her to the ground. The Witch-King does the "no man" speech while holding her up by the throat. Merry STABS THE WITCH-KING. Witch-King drops Eowyn. Eowyn does her "I am no man" bit. Eowyn kills the Witch-King. I don't think it flew over the screenwriters' heads. Well, other than that they didn't make a big deal out of there being a prophecy at all.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:01
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Have you ever met someone who is sheltered and homeschooled? How weird and patchy their knowledge seems? She read the 12 books about loving but if the book about watches got dropped in the ocean accidently she just wouldn't know what a watch is. Corrosion posted:But I wasn't referencing a watch, I was referencing the fact that she asked about the concept of "time" in relation to "the watch." I actually think that in the third act of the film and parts of the first act, Diana's ignorance to the world is as you describe and even sort of endearing given the opening scene and Diana's admission about her past self. Yeah I agree on the swiss cheese thing. Using a device to keep track of time throughout the day and being told where to go and what to do by superiors/employees have been part of most civilizations for tens of thousands of years, it's genuinely odd that these concepts were somehow foreign to Diana. Especially since she lives in a martial society which is also a dynastic monarchy where pretty much everyone she'd ever known would have been giving orders or taking orders. The ancient Greeks were also pretty good at keeping time and had several different types of timepieces including water clocks and even alarm clocks, it isn't a modern concept by any stretch. Owlofcreamcheese posted:I absolutely don't think you were meant to take her not knowing about "time" to mean some beep boop literal thing where she literally didn't know what time is. Go read about like when railroads came with railway clocks in like 1850. It's an unthinkable thing today but people had protests at the idea. People got religious about it, claiming it was against god. That there was a century you just set your clock as solar noon and everywhere had slightly different times and it was a helpful guide, not some standard everyone lived by. People got initially really freaked out at the idea of time keeping being a real thing people kept to instead of just a loose helpful estimate. Like it was a huge change to society when work started at 7:15 instead of "A bit past dawn". For a long time time was just "there is around 5 hours till sundown" not "it is 2:15 and 42 seconds". What are you even talking about, that's not what the railway time protests were about. People were very familiar with the concept of keeping accurate time at that point, the people in the other cities were just pissed off about being made to change their local clocks to match the time as it was in London. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 06:23
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Isn't there both a comic book movie thread and a Batman v Superman thread for dudes to have pedantic arguments about Snyder and those movies in
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Jun 5, 2017 06:23
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Mandrel posted:Isn't there both a comic book movie thread and a Batman v Superman thread for dudes to have pedantic arguments about Snyder and those movies in it's not our fault that MoS is more interesting than any major blockbuster that's come out in the last 4 years and also I think the BvS thread is gone
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Jun 5, 2017 06:24
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DC Murderverse posted:ironically, looking at the opening Krypton scene today, it very much looks like Jor-El was a leftist Kryptonian scientist who was right about everything (re: climate change and alternative energy), and Zod was basically Krypton Richard Spencer, and both of them hated the government for being useless but Jor-El wouldn't work with Zod because of his weird fascination with bloodlines and purity. I just saw Wonder Woman but will not have a lot to say about it until I read through the thread.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:27
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Uh, the sequence of events in the movie is: Yes I'm aware that Merry stabs the witch king in the movie, but they don't underline it the way they do with Eowyn.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:30
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Halloween Jack posted:Well Zod is actually sympathetic, because he's no more obsessed with bloodlines and purity than the rest of Krypton. He was created to preserve a status quo that was destroying itself, and the fundamental absurdity of that drove him insane. By comparison, radicals like Spencer are just cheap charlatans. I don't think he's sympathetic because of the former, but being created to be a military general specifically does probably gently caress with your head. Richard Spencer doesn't have a genetic excuse for being an rear end in a top hat. Again, I'm sure we get very little of this in the Krypton series, which will probably be really lame between being on Syfy and being written by David Goyer. Though, weirdly enough, Goyer wrote a Superman story about him renouncing his American citizenship that made conservatives super loving mad, so his politics are probably slightly more interesting than I give him credit for. On the other hand, he did still cowrite Dark Knight Rises, which is a muddled-rear end movie no matter how you look at it.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:39
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Steve Yun posted:Whoa whoa whoa. Part of what made that line great in 1954 was that there was a twist after that twist. Well, Merry stabbed the thing with one of the magic Nazgul-killing blades they'd gotten out of the barrow two books previously. That scene didn't make it into the first movie, so it's understandable that they'd modify the followup in the third.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:42
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Guy A. Person posted:Lol you are a lunatic Simply because something is "so mundane" that you ignore it, does not mean careful observers should ignore it.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:26
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah I agree on the swiss cheese thing. Using a device to keep track of time throughout the day and being told where to go and what to do by superiors/employees have been part of most civilizations for tens of thousands of years, it's genuinely odd that these concepts were somehow foreign to Diana. Especially since she lives in a martial society which is also a dynastic monarchy where pretty much everyone she'd ever known would have been giving orders or taking orders. The ancient Greeks were also pretty good at keeping time and had several different types of timepieces including water clocks and even alarm clocks, it isn't a modern concept by any stretch. I've only seen the film once during a particularly poor theater experience, so I can't yet discuss the film as clearly as I'd like to, but I remember her being amazed not at the concept of timekeeping but at the notion of Steve carrying around a little device to tell him when to do things.
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Jun 5, 2017 08:47
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Toady posted:I've only seen the film once during a particularly poor theater experience, so I can't yet discuss the film as clearly as I'd like to, but I remember her being amazed not at the concept of timekeeping but at the notion of Steve carrying around a little device to tell him when to do things. She thought he was a sucker for letting a little device tell him when he should be doing something
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Jun 5, 2017 08:57
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it was a set up for another penis joke
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Jun 5, 2017 10:41
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Judakel posted:Simply because something is "so mundane" that you ignore it, does not mean careful observers should ignore it. You're absolutely right, the movie actually is darker because superman breaks a chunk off a mountain  Maybe Tony Stark had his robot butler buy the mountain off screen just before Supes wrecked it. That would make things better
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Jun 5, 2017 13:43
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Was Chris Pine speaking in a goofy German accent supposed to represent him speaking German, or have we established that only Nazis actually speak German in movies?
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Jun 5, 2017 17:00
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I loving cried when Wonder Woman leapt from her trench and charged the land of no man. Nothing from superhero movies I've seen have captured the sense of heroism so acutely yet. Invulnerability is a big part of the recipe, you idiots.
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Jun 5, 2017 17:09
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Vegetable posted:I loving cried when Wonder Woman leapt from her trench and charged the land of no man. Nothing from superhero movies I've seen have captured the sense of heroism so acutely yet. Invulnerability is a big part of the recipe, you idiots. *in an extremely Darmok voice* Superman, Under the Gravity Beam
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Jun 5, 2017 17:15
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The thing I'm really going to miss in the debate over this film is people saying it was good or bad depending on how much merchandise is in their local department store. That was definitely one of the absolute weirdest features of arguing about movies online over the past couple years, but I don't think it will be part of this particular slapfight.DC Murderverse posted:Like it's going to take all of my willpower not to respond to everyone on the internet saying "finally, a good DCEU movie" with "i'm sorry you have bad taste". teagone posted:I'm trying so hard not to respond to Alisha Grauso on twitter (editor-at-large for Moviepilot, a site I sometimes write clickbait articles on for kicks) because she claims the worst parts of Wonder Woman had Zack Snyder's fingerprints all over them. I suppose she had her Snyder detector on at maximum to know exactly when and at which point in the movie that was influenced by Zack Snyder himself. I'm guessing it was all the slow motion bits.  where the bad guy is like "I'm literally the death drive of fascism , isn't that great?"Bacon Terrorist posted:As far as I'm aware the only tanks in WW1 were tractors with ad hoc armour plating. Bar Crow posted:Did they change World War 2 to 1 to appease the nazi demographic? BrianWilly posted:Not really. In the Thor comics the gods have actual magic and divinity in ways that are not comparable to "super-advanced alien science," and any notions of them being just another powerful alien race in the universe are very downplayed. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 17:33
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Vegetable posted:I loving cried when Wonder Woman leapt from her trench and charged the land of no man. Nothing from superhero movies I've seen have captured the sense of heroism so acutely yet. Invulnerability is a big part of the recipe, you idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-waJsBs0eBQ
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Jun 5, 2017 17:33
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Vegetable posted:I loving cried when Wonder Woman leapt from her trench and charged the land of no man. Nothing from superhero movies I've seen have captured the sense of heroism so acutely yet. Invulnerability is a big part of the recipe, you idiots. No Superman taking a Gatling gun to the face and eye in Superman Returns?
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Jun 5, 2017 17:50
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Did the movie give a reason for why Steve had to suicide out? Why not just land the plane after getting control of it?
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Jun 5, 2017 18:00
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Chris Pine signed a multi picture deal so presumably he'll get better. Or something something wizard with a time machine I dunno.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:10
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Deadulus posted:Did the movie give a reason for why Steve had to suicide out? I'd assume because he wanted to destroy all the traces of the gas without torching a huge chunk of land in the process. Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Chris Pine signed a multi picture deal so presumably he'll get better. Being comic books, I wouldn't be surprised if Steve slips within a time portal second before the plane bursting in flames. Or they could come with an identical grandson I guess.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:24
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Guy A. Person posted:Lol you are a lunatic We don't disagree. You're 100% correct that they're absolutely ubiquitous elements from every Superman movie. I was talking about how they these obligatory scenes are delivered. Krypton has to be destroyed, the innocent have to be threatened, and Lois is going to kiss Clark. Superman can jump through a cornfield or fly high in the sky. Or he could be the hulk or a safari drone controlled by a jerk. Edit: And to say it's not a negative trait. We've seen the other decisions. It's not a bad idea to show a dark version of the Superman story.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:24
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Deadulus posted:Did the movie give a reason for why Steve had to suicide out? Land it where? One of the characters says (I think) that the gas is on a timer to be released no matter what/where, and he doesn't have a lot of tech options available to him (and no especially tech-y members of his squad) in the early 1900s to stop that short of taking it somewhere it won't harm anyone but himself and detonating it. And Diana was too busy dealing with Ares at the moment to consider whether or not she might be able to also handle the plane/gas herself (and too shaken/temporarily deaf to stop Steve in the first place).
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Jun 5, 2017 18:26
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I'd assume because he wanted to destroy all the traces of the gas without torching a huge chunk of land in the process. Obviously the Flash time-travels back to the exact moment to pluck him to safety so that he can reunite him with Diana to give her an incentive to join the Superfriends in the next film.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:27
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Steve will probably end up a GL
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Jun 5, 2017 18:31
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DC Murderverse posted:it's not our fault that MoS is more interesting than any major blockbuster that's come out in the last 4 years Putting aside whether it is or not (it's not), suffering through goons rehashing the same arguments about it and gushing over it in every thread is well past its use by date. I liked WW quite a bit. It has a weak third act but the first two acts are phenomenal. WW going over the top on No Man's Land and storming that occupied village are the best things the DCEU has offered, easily supplanting the first part of BvS.
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