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Can I play Mace Griffin: Bounty Hunter on the PS4 Ryan?!? HUH? CAN I?Mak0rz posted:A better way to phrase that would be "is there any reason to revisit SMB 1 or 2 now that we have All Stars," in which case the answer is yes because All Stars broke some poo poo and lost some of its original charm in the upgrades so I rescind my original statement. I haven't played the NES SMB 1, 2, or 3 in so long that I'd probably be terrible at them. I'm so used to All-Stars since I've just been playing that version since 1993.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:35
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2 or 3 will play pretty much identically. It's SMB1/Lost Levels that you might have issues with, what with its brick-breaking bug and all, where breaking bricks sucks you into 'em instead of bouncing off of 'em.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:56
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Is it weird that I prefer speed runs and TAS videos that don't use glitches and bugs?
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Jun 5, 2017 19:13
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Depends on if the glitch/bug in question is hilarious like the Gran Turismo one, or just kinda boring like skipping literally all of a stage in Sonic 3 & Knuckles by clipping into the floor and having the shift-player-out-of-wall code shunt you way off to the right.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:45
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Star Man posted:Is it weird that I prefer speed runs and TAS videos that don't use glitches and bugs? Not really since demonstrating extreme skill is pretty cool, too. And some bugs that trivialize a game make them really boring to watch.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:54
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Random Stranger posted:Not really since demonstrating extreme skill is pretty cool, too. And some bugs that trivialize a game make them really boring to watch. I think it's just a projection of how I prefer to play most games. I don't start playing Super Mario Bros. 2 just to warp my way to the end and beat it in under ten minutes. I want to take it all in. Likewise, I'm just not crazy about sequence breaking games and roll my eyes when the speedrun people piss and moan about a remake of a game not having their speedrunning bugs and exploits anymore. Like, I"ll play Ocarina of Time and do things out of order as adult Link like get Biggoron's Sword as soon as I am in the future because it's possible to do so or get the Lens of Truth right after the Forest Temple because all you need is the Song of Storms and be able to time travel to get it. I like how sequence breaking was implemented in the design of Metroid Zero because they knew people were going to try to play the game in whatever busted rear end order they could come up with, so they made it an optional way to play rather than it being a complete accident.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:05
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Star Man posted:Is it weird that I prefer speed runs and TAS videos that don't use glitches and bugs? Is it weird that I prefer speed runs that aren't tool assisted?
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Jun 5, 2017 20:20
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On the GT front, there is a reason to go back to the old games, and that's that GT1/2 included something insane like 600 cars, and 3 trimmed it down to 100-something. I don't claim to play a bunch of Gran Turismo, but I also don't think the comparison to Madden 06 is fair. They are distinct games.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:24
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Star Man posted:I think it's just a projection of how I prefer to play most games. I don't start playing Super Mario Bros. 2 just to warp my way to the end and beat it in under ten minutes. I want to take it all in. Likewise, I'm just not crazy about sequence breaking games and roll my eyes when the speedrun people piss and moan about a remake of a game not having their speedrunning bugs and exploits anymore. I'm not sure if anyone ever played the NES Mario 2 from start to finish without warping. That game is insanely loving long. The original FDS Doki Doki Panic was able to save progress and actually required you to play it four times to compete it.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:36
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I have a question about DOA2 on the Dreamcast. I was using it to test out my new S-Video cable. I hopped into sparring mode but I can't move my character back using the d-pad. I can move forward just fine, duck, and jump, but moving back is this really tiny sidestep. Analog works fine, forward and backward, and free move. Tried another controller, same thing. I don't recall having an issue (left d-pad) in any other game. Is this a weird quirk specific to this game?
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Jun 5, 2017 20:37
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:On the GT front, there is a reason to go back to the old games, and that's that GT1/2 included something insane like 600 cars, and 3 trimmed it down to 100-something. 600 unique or just 600 skins of 200-odd cars?
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Jun 5, 2017 20:48
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Mak0rz posted:I'm not sure if anyone ever played the NES Mario 2 from start to finish without warping. That game is insanely loving long. The original FDS Doki Doki Panic was able to save progress and actually required you to play it four times to compete it. I did just that plenty of times. It isn't that long.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:01
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Zaphod42 posted:Is it weird that I prefer speed runs that aren't tool assisted? Totally agree. I never understood the reason why tool assisted runs exist in the first place.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:12
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TheMadMilkman posted:I did just that plenty of times. It isn't that long. Really? I'm definitely remembering wrong then because I remember the game taking forever. Or maybe it's because I died all the time in one of the later worlds.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:15
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The current all-levels speedrun record of Super Mario Bros. 2 is 21 minutes 37 seconds, but that's with someone who's really good obviously. The run with skipping as many levels as possible is 8 minutes 26 seconds. A normal kid would probably need to spend well over an hour playing through all the levels if they were pretty good. Wizgot posted:Totally agree. I never understood the reason why tool assisted runs exist in the first place. That seems like a weird thing to not understand, if you do understand why playing games fast exists at all. fishmech fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 21:26
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Wizgot posted:Totally agree. I never understood the reason why tool assisted runs exist in the first place.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:30
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Mak0rz posted:Really? I'm definitely remembering wrong then because I remember the game taking forever. I can do it in about 45 minutes with no warps and I'm obviously not speedrunning. I think a complete Mario 3 no warps playthrough takes closer to two hours for me. That is a long game.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:34
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Wizgot posted:Totally agree. I never understood the reason why tool assisted runs exist in the first place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5tyMXXDPX4 Random Stranger posted:I can do it in about 45 minutes with no warps and I'm obviously not speedrunning. Yeah Mario 3 is long too. I guess I'm just bad at Mario 2 
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Jun 5, 2017 21:34
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I saw Citizen Kane last week because every video game publication says the latest hotness is "the Citizen Kane of video games" but ugh! It looked ancient. Black and white? C'mon, I live in a colored world. This is not a movie we should be judging games on. Now Batman v. Superman, that's the poo poo. Doomsday was ripped straight out of a Final Fantasy boss fight.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:51
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That's always a fun analogy. As I recall, that comparison was supposed to be about how Citizen Kane pioneered several new technologies or cinematic techniques, stuff that became industry standards going forward from there, and not just that it was a great film (especially since it kind of flopped at the time of its release, despite critical success; it didn't properly get its due until sometime in the mid-50s, over a decade later). So, y'know, it's an analogy that game journalists completely mangle day-in-day-out, big surprise there. I'm not sure when it was first used, but some people have posited it was some ABC affiliate's news show proclaiming Metroid Prime to be it, and, well, I dunno how much the industry at large has really modeled itself after Metroid Prime to be perfectly honest...
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Jun 5, 2017 22:08
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Shadow Hog posted:That's always a fun analogy. As I recall, that comparison was supposed to be about how Citizen Kane pioneered several new technologies or cinematic techniques, stuff that became industry standards going forward from there, and not just that it was a great film (especially since it kind of flopped at the time of its release, despite critical success; it didn't properly get its due until sometime in the mid-50s, over a decade later). In other words: video games (and the Internet) make you stupid and gamers are loving idiots. including yours truly
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Jun 5, 2017 22:20
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Wizgot posted:Totally agree. I never understood the reason why tool assisted runs exist in the first place. Stuff like this is awesome https://youtu.be/OPcV9uIY5i4
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Jun 5, 2017 22:49
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Shadow Hog posted:That's always a fun analogy. As I recall, that comparison was supposed to be about how Citizen Kane pioneered several new technologies or cinematic techniques, stuff that became industry standards going forward from there, and not just that it was a great film (especially since it kind of flopped at the time of its release, despite critical success; it didn't properly get its due until sometime in the mid-50s, over a decade later). How much of a critical success was Kane when half the papers in the country refused to review it?  "_________ is the Citizen Kane of ____________ ," is a phrase that's been around decades longer than that and been applied to a lot more than video games. Though linking it just to video games and 2002 does remind me how annoyed I get that nerds tend to attribute something to the first place they saw it rather than getting the entire context. I suspect it actually started around the time that "Citizen Kane is the greatest film ever made" pushed into the public consciousness, so sometime in the 1970's. It always bothered me that nobody ever picks other movies. Where is the Rashomon of video games? The Casablanca? The Birth of a Nation? Okay, that last one is obviously the romhack of SMB1 with the KKK. (Panzer Dragoon Saga is the Passion of Joan of Arc of video games.) Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 22:57
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So in the last couple weeks I've gotten something of an actual retro gaming setup going as I picked a CRT off someone's hands for free near the end of last month, so I've been trying to find ways to justify my decision to have a big rear end TV taking up extra space in my spacious but still somewhat small room. I figured on top of moving my non HD systems next to it, I'd get a GunCon 2 so I can add light gun games to my PS2 collection since I never got in on those back in the day. Getting the controller and the proper cables was a hell of a journey though. For start, I wanted to get the Japanese GunCon 2 since I'd rather have a not hideously orange colored peripheral (even knowing full well why the thing's colored that way in America), and try to find one locally rather than ordering straight from Japan. So I decided to first check some local game stores in the area that have imports. Found a Japanese bundle with Gun Survivor 3, a game that made me realize Capcom actually made more than one game called Gun Survivor and is probably just as bad, at the second location I visited for 40 bucks. Got home that same day, opened to find it was missing the AV cable that is necessary to make it function with the TV. I figured over the weekend I could hunt down some RCA splitters or multi out extenders to get around this problem, but the gun and/or TV did not agree with any of them. I really did not want to have to resort to eBay and pay for the same controller but with 50% extra just for the shipping cost. So I went back to that store today, and asked to trade it in for another GunCon 2 bundle that they had, which was the US version of Time Crisis 3. They checked after I told them about the missing cable, and sure enough that bundle had it. It was ten bucks cheaper than the Japanese one so to make the most out of the exchange, I threw in an N64/Gamecube S-Video cable since I never had anything better than Composite when I used to play on a CRT and figured I'd use that to give my two Nintendo systems a bit of a boost. I'm not at the point financially where I can just start getting Scart cables and switchers and mod my systems to display RGB and all that poo poo. Maybe in a few years. But all's well that end's well, I brought the new GunCon 2 home, hooked it up, popped in Time Crisis 3 and played Area 1 of the first stage. Worked excellently as you would want. Though it did remind me that I'm garbage at Time Crisis as I kept instinctively trying to reload by shooting outside the screen. Guess I need to import Virtua Cop ReBirth ASAP in order to get my Sega light gun game fix. Endymion FRS MK1 posted:I have a question about DOA2 on the Dreamcast. I was using it to test out my new S-Video cable. I hopped into sparring mode but I can't move my character back using the d-pad. I can move forward just fine, duck, and jump, but moving back is this really tiny sidestep. Analog works fine, forward and backward, and free move. Tried another controller, same thing. I don't recall having an issue (left d-pad) in any other game. Is this a weird quirk specific to this game?
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Jun 5, 2017 23:01
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Shadow Hog posted:To explore the possibility of hypothetical perfect play, or otherwise show off amusing glitches that would require frame-perfect input to execute, something no human being should ever be expected to do in reality. Yeah but you should just show the glitches as demonstrations. There's no point keeping tack of a time for a TAS run really. falz posted:Stuff like this is awesome This is great; as a hack. As a speedrun its just silly. Hey I skipped to the credits so that counts as beating the game right? Uhhhh Who cares if you can beat the game in 3 minutes using cheats? The cool thing here is being able to execute arbitrary code, and the kinds of mods you can build with that without modifying the ROM.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:21
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Random Stranger posted:(Panzer Dragoon Saga is the Passion of Joan of Arc of video games.) So we're going to find the source code with translated comments in an abandoned Dutch mental asylum?
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Jun 5, 2017 23:25
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah but you should just show the glitches as demonstrations. There's no point keeping tack of a time for a TAS run really. What? That's an insane belief to have. Zaphod42 posted:
I wouldn't call something that real humans can do with just the official controller and console and not using cheats explicitly included by the programmers as "cheats".
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Jun 5, 2017 23:33
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To me, TAS are more interesting than regular speedruns. What I'm interested in is answering the question "how quickly can you get to the end of the game by using nothing but what the game provides (except intentionally programmed codes)", and the more broken the game is in achieving that, the better. Arbitrary code execution, ludicrous luck and AI manipulation, frame perfect inputs at will, glitches that just straight up force the ending to appear, everything it takes to go faster. It's all about achieving the absolute limits of what is possible within the confines of the game as it is programmed. So I can definitely get enjoyment from something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFNctqf6DmI It's really just abusing luck manipulation in order to bankrupt the maximum amount of computer opponents in the shortest time in a game of Monopoly. But it's that perfect luck manipulation that makes it so interesting to me.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:52
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Or something like the Mortal Kombat 2 "playaround" TAS, where the appeal isn't just showing off as many glitches as possible, but keeping you guessing as to how much more bizarre it's gonna get as it goes.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:08
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Is this the thread for hardware DOS talk or is there a more relevant thread in SHSC?
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Jun 6, 2017 00:10
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This thread may be exactly what you're looking for.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:11
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TAS to me is like the difference between the circus and a magic show. The circus is a performance of human strength and agility while magic is about illusion and showmanship. Both are entertaining for different reasons and knowing magic is fake doesn't make it any less fun.Random Stranger posted:It always bothered me that nobody ever picks other movies. Where is the Rashomon of video games? The Casablanca? The Birth of a Nation? Call of Juarez Gunslinger is the Rashomon of games. The Last Express is Casablanca. And Inindo is Birth of a Nation where Nobunaga is depicted as a demon who wants to crush the freedom of the disparate warring clans.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:23
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al-azad posted:I'm going to say Ocean is a worse publisher. I own several Acclaim published games I like, can't think of a single Ocean game. NES/GB Jurassic Park wasn't that bad
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Jun 6, 2017 01:08
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Instant Sunrise posted:Also there's cases like Crazy Taxi where the original was a licensing clusterfuck so that any re-release would end up neutered and missing half of the music. Sega just shelled out to add the Offspring songs to their new Crazy Taxi-themed clicker game because they know 80% of the appeal is YA YA YA YA YAA
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Jun 6, 2017 01:21
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Sega just shelled out to add the Offspring songs to their new Crazy Taxi-themed clicker game because they know 80% of the appeal is YA YA YA YA YAA
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Jun 6, 2017 02:49
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TheMcD posted:To me, TAS are more interesting than regular speedruns. What I'm interested in is answering the question "how quickly can you get to the end of the game by using nothing but what the game provides (except intentionally programmed codes)", and the more broken the game is in achieving that, the better. Arbitrary code execution, ludicrous luck and AI manipulation, frame perfect inputs at will, glitches that just straight up force the ending to appear, everything it takes to go faster. It's all about achieving the absolute limits of what is possible within the confines of the game as it is programmed. I'm all about sequence breaking, but I like it when you can actually pull it off during a run yourself, and its not something that requires either a complete emulator hack or some kind of stitching together of a few seconds of perfect play from one savepoint to another or stuff like using a computer to input things into the controller port. Jumping across platforms in Dark Souls to skip levels and shave time off your run is super cool. Figuring out how to path the game to cut down on time is even cooler. Using an emulator with save states to link a super-perfect run together is boring. Shadow Hog posted:Or something like the Mortal Kombat 2 "playaround" TAS, where the appeal isn't just showing off as many glitches as possible, but keeping you guessing as to how much more bizarre it's gonna get as it goes. See I enjoy these as like a scene demo, but not as a "speedrun". Like is said, they're cool hacks, but the "time" of the run is irrelevant, making it not really a speedrun at all. These are just console hack demos.
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Jun 6, 2017 02:55
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xamphear posted:I'm not sure an old Offspring song requires a whole lot of shelling out for these days, especially with the state of music licensing overall. Plus it's F2P as gently caress, so they can probably pay for the songs with just the payments from a single whale. Yeah, probably. I guess the point I was making is that Sega seems pretty willing to do the work nowadays, as opposed to even five years ago. Like, the Jet Set Radio re-release has pretty much all the old music - it's missing a track or two because they couldn't figure out who owned them or something but beyond that it's all there.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:02
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm all about sequence breaking, but I like it when you can actually pull it off during a run yourself, and its not something that requires either a complete emulator hack or some kind of stitching together of a few seconds of perfect play from one savepoint to another or stuff like using a computer to input things into the controller port. What's really stupid about your complaint here is that a lot of stuff that people used to think could only be done in a TAS has later turned out to be repeatable with a real human player on a real console and normal controller. You're basically just mad that people are too good at video games compared to other people playing in a different way at arbitrary points in time. And that's to say nothing of how the TASers and normal speedrunners are exchanging info on what the games can do all the time, TAS is generally pretty necessary to getting serious improvements to real-time play.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:25
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 I found these while on vacation in Santa Fe, and they're pretty rare, I think?
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Jun 6, 2017 06:39
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DOOP A DOOP DOOP DOOP A DOOP HAUNTED CART WATCH
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