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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, how are you getting people to join together in solidarity when one group generally views the other as inferior? How are you convincing white people generally to engage in solidarity instead of demanding subordination and unquestioning support from racial minorities? It seems to me like you're just begging the question, assuming that racism has been eliminated as a factor to start with. By showing how racism is being used to manipulate them. By showing them who their common enemy is and how their interests align.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:07
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stone cold posted:which is why the front national was founded last year and definitely jean-marie never made it to the second round What are you on about. Is this supposed to make my point worse somehow?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:07
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White Rock posted:Brainac, do you think Hillary Clinton is a good politician? Does she represent your values? She hasn't strangled any DSA members to death, so no, she does NOT represent my values.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:07
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NewForumSoftware posted:Why? Who cares? Bernie was a better choice for anti-racist policy than Hillary was. Probably because he wasn't actually a racist. yeop, glad maple grandpa marched with mlk jr remember when he actually started a policymaking career and did all those landmark things for civil rights like
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Jun 6, 2017 01:08
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The basis of racism is not self-interest, in the sense of accumulating wealth. It is fear. The majority of the 'privileges' of being white are not material rewards, but exclusions from violence and terrorism, often state sponsored. None of the actions by reactionaries make sense if you look at it through the lens of race as essentializing. Far from it, race is constructed specifically to divide class.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:08
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White Rock posted:What are you on about. Is this supposed to make my point worse somehow? hand waving away white american racism as a huge factor into why trump won makes you a moron hth
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Jun 6, 2017 01:08
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Jizz Festival posted:By showing how racism is being used to manipulate them. By showing them who their common enemy is and how their interests align. But their interests don't all align, because white supremacy does benefit all white people and so it's also in white people's interest to maintain racism.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:09
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stone cold posted:remember when he actually started a policymaking career and did all those landmark things for civil rights like I mean, couldn't you say the same thing about Clinton? What landmark civil rights legislation was she a part of?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:09
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Brainiac Five posted:I'm curious why y'all can't stop bringing her up. Do you wanna gently caress her instead, like the weirdo in the last incarnation of this thread who confessed to fantasizing about her sexually assaulting them? You really can't understand why we keep bringing up Hillary in a thread entitled "The democrats are a waste?"
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Jun 6, 2017 01:09
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Brainiac Five posted:She hasn't strangled any DSA members to death, so no, she does NOT represent my values. I'm just curios what you actually support. You seem to revel in marking everything as flawed and therefore irredeemable.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:09
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Remember when Bernies called John Lewis a shill? Guess he should have marched with Dr. King.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:10
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Brainiac Five posted:Remember when Bernies called John Lewis a shill? No because it never happened?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:11
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WampaLord posted:You really can't understand why we keep bringing up Hillary in a thread entitled "The democrats are a waste?" I understand it all right, but I don't think you do.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:11
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Politics is praxis, action. Class consciousness is formed through unification, it does not precede it. Reread that RL Stephens article I posted, he made a point of how showing class action can be used for anti racist ends, in fact, how class action creates the conditions for anti-racism.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:12
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NewForumSoftware posted:No because it never happened? Ah, the Big Lie strategy. Glad to see we've worn away the veneer of reasonability.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:12
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Brainiac Five posted:Ah, the Big Lie strategy. Glad to see we've worn away the veneer of reasonability. Feel free to post a link. The ? was real
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Jun 6, 2017 01:13
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rudatron posted:Politics is praxis, action. Class consciousness is formed through unification, it does not precede it. Reread that RL Stephens article I posted, he made a point of how showing class action can be used for anti racist ends, in fact, how class action creates the conditions for anti-racism. See, your lips keep flapping, rudatron, but all you're saying is "racism isn't real".
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Jun 6, 2017 01:13
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White Rock posted:I'm just curios what you actually support. You seem to revel in marking everything as flawed and therefore irredeemable. The power to kill anyone he/she deems as "subhuman" and the almighty dollar.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:14
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NewForumSoftware posted:Feel free to post a link. The ? was real No, I'm not going to go through and post receipts because every time someone has done so in this thread they have been rejected as irrelevant.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:14
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Brainiac Five posted:But their interests don't all align, because white supremacy does benefit all white people and so it's also in white people's interest to maintain racism. You could use this same outlook to say that all Americans have an interest in keeping down the third world. These are narrow self interests. I'm talking about an interest in liberation, an interest in living in a better world.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:14
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Brainiac Five posted:No, I'm not going to go through and post receipts because every time someone has done so in this thread they have been rejected as irrelevant. I don't know I figure it'd be pretty easy to link to somewhere quoting Bernie Sanders calling John Lewis a shill. Hell, I thought it would be easy to google for but I found nothing (except for John Lewis attacking Bernie Sanders civil rights credentials lol)
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Jun 6, 2017 01:15
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Jizz Festival posted:You could use this same outlook to say that all Americans have an interest in keeping down the third world. These are narrow self interests. I'm talking about an interest in liberation, an interest in living in a better world. Okay, so you're talking about inculcating an ideological reason to be anti-racist. I'm glad we're finally on the same page, though I don't think that attempting to do this to build majority support for antiracism is practical compared to imposing antiracism on people and letting them adjust to the new status quo.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:17
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NewForumSoftware posted:I don't know I figure it'd be pretty easy to link to somewhere quoting Bernie Sanders calling John Lewis a shill. Hell, I thought it would be easy to google for but I found nothing (except for John Lewis attacking Bernie Sanders civil rights credentials lol) I said Bernie Sanders supporters did that, but I'm glad Bernie's status as one of the greatest heroes of the Movement is received wisdom that cannot be questioned. How very intellectual.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:18
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Brainiac Five posted:Okay, so you're talking about inculcating an ideological reason to be anti-racist. I'm glad we're finally on the same page, though I don't think that attempting to do this to build majority support for antiracism is practical compared to imposing antiracism on people and letting them adjust to the new status quo. How exactly do we impose antiracism on people given that we live in a Democracy and there's a good part of the country (thank god I don't live there) that would gladly revert to a much more racially segregated time? Brainiac Five posted:I said Bernie Sanders supporters did that, but I'm glad Bernie's status as one of the greatest heroes of the Movement is received wisdom that cannot be questioned. How very intellectual. Oh I didn't realize Bernie Sanders was also being held responsible for the statements made by anyone who supports him. I'm assuming when you say "supporters" you just mean random internet posters and not anyone actually involved with his campaign in any way. NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 01:18
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Brainiac Five posted:Okay, so you're talking about inculcating an ideological reason to be anti-racist. I'm glad we're finally on the same page, though I don't think that attempting to do this to build majority support for antiracism is practical compared to imposing antiracism on people and letting them adjust to the new status quo. If I felt it was possible to impose antiracism on people I would be all for it, honestly. How would you propose going about that?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:18
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Brainiac Five posted:Okay, so you're talking about inculcating an ideological reason to be anti-racist. I'm glad we're finally on the same page, though I don't think that attempting to do this to build majority support for antiracism is practical compared to imposing antiracism on people and letting them adjust to the new status quo. How would one impose antiracism?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:19
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NewForumSoftware posted:I mean, couldn't you say the same thing about Clinton? What landmark civil rights legislation was she a part of? for starters, allowing trans people federal identification documents with their preferred gender not technically legislation so much as policy, but it fuckin matters
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Jun 6, 2017 01:20
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NewForumSoftware posted:How exactly do we impose antiracism on people given that we live in a Democracy and there's a good part of the country (thank god I don't live there) that would gladly revert to a much more racially segregated time? There's this little-known law called the Emancipation Proclamation, another one called the Civil Rights Act of 1964, another one called the Voting Rights Act of 1965... Hell, the 13th through 15th Amendments arguably count too.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:20
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NewForumSoftware posted:How exactly do we impose antiracism on people given that we live in a Democracy and there's a good part of the country (thank god I don't live there) that would gladly revert to a much more racially segregated time? how exactly do we impose socialism on people given that we live in a Democracy etc etc this is not a difficult question to answer my man.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:22
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stone cold posted:for starters, allowing trans people federal identification documents with their preferred gender Do you think Bernie wouldn't have done the same given the chance? Given his record? Brainiac Five posted:There's this little-known law called the Emancipation Proclamation, another one called the Civil Rights Act of 1964, another one called the Voting Rights Act of 1965... Yes, the Democrats used to be better. We agree. Ze Pollack posted:how exactly do we impose socialism on people given that we live in a Democracy etc etc this is not a difficult question to answer my man. We don't, I don't see socialism coming home to America any time soon. That's why I thought Bernie was a decent compromise. Granted, I voted De La Riva in the general.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:22
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Brainiac Five posted:But their interests don't all align, because white supremacy does benefit all white people and so it's also in white people's interest to maintain racism. If that's true then all hope is lost, because the central point in marxist thought is that 1. The proletariat have the same material interests and 2. They outnumber the bourgeoisie 3: Thus they should make with the revolutions already So if, as you claim, all whites are in a political elite, a sort of racial bourgeoisie,, what power do you have too stop it?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:23
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Ze Pollack posted:how exactly do we impose socialism on people given that we live in a Democracy etc etc this is not a difficult question to answer my man. Those actually both seem like difficult questions to answer.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:23
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NewForumSoftware posted:Do you think Bernie wouldn't have done the same given the chance? Given his record? Okay, so you have no idea what you're talking about and your mind is completely closed. Lmao.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:23
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Brainiac Five posted:Okay, so you have no idea what you're talking about and your mind is completely closed. Lmao. My mind is closed because I don't think we're going to see Congress passing a civil rights act any time soon? How exactly does the Civil rights act of 2022 get passed in the current political climate?
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Jun 6, 2017 01:24
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White Rock posted:If that's true then all hope is lost, because the central point in marxist thought is that Did you know that people can have multiple material interests? Anyways, the argument I am making is that antiracism and feminism and gay liberation and trans liberation lay the groundwork for proletarian consciousness, and must necessarily accompany efforts towards socialism.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:25
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NewForumSoftware posted:Do you think Bernie wouldn't have done the same given the chance? Given his record? i dunno part of his record was dumping toxic waste on a hispanic community in texas who can say NewForumSoftware posted:Yes, the Democrats used to be better. We agree. when? when they supported slavery? interning japanese americans? vietnam? or are you a centrist masquerading as a leftist? given your defense of calling black people "blacks" im guessing you're a breckinridge democrat, but feel free to correct me
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Jun 6, 2017 01:25
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NewForumSoftware posted:My mind is closed because I don't think we're going to see Congress passing a civil rights act any time soon? How exactly does the Civil rights act of 2022 get passed in the current political climate? You asked how antiracism could be imposed on people and now you're shifting the terms, dishonestly.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:26
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NewForumSoftware posted:My mind is closed because I don't think we're going to see Congress passing a civil rights act any time soon? How exactly does the Civil rights act of 2022 get passed in the current political climate? guess we better not make any policy aims while fascists are in power, we should just lay down and die instead thanks for your angle, alt-centrist
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Jun 6, 2017 01:27
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stone cold posted:when? when they supported slavery? interning japanese americans? vietnam? or are you a centrist masquerading as a leftist? When they passed legislation like the Civil Rights Act? I mean when was the last real major anti-racist legislation even written? Brainiac Five posted:You asked how antiracism could be imposed on people and now you're shifting the terms, dishonestly. How is that shifting the terms? You're saying we should do something that is no longer possible in our current political climate. stone cold posted:guess we better not make any policy aims while fascists are in power, we should just lay down and die instead We can have all the policy aims we want, that's not going to pass a civil rights act. Especially when we have people like you getting fooled into thinking some old rich white lady who coined the term Superpredators is the less racist choice. NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 01:29
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The CRA of 1964 also didn't have majority public support until it was passed, and a year later a majority of Americans either believed the USSR controlled the Civil Rights Movement or were unsure. The Emancipation Proclamation is generally believed to have cost the Republican Party control of the House in 1862. These laws were imposed on indifferent or hostile publics.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:30
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