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CommonShore posted:Right now I feel as if I could watch Nardole wander around the TARDIS and do his thing on the fringes of stories for years, even if he just replaces the Sonic Screwdriver and Sentient TARDIS plot-solving maguffins. Yeah. It's really nice to have two companions again. docbeard posted:
I like those once in awhile in my Doctor Who, and I think it sort of worked here. Getting past history-erasing propaganda by thinking of the people who are no longer with us and are therefore a part of that history, instead of the more abstract flashbulb history moments. My guess is that the Whitehouse script got some editing to cobble things together into the three-parter. The more that I think about it, the more it would have been a decent episode without the 15 minute fakeout at the beginning we all knew was going to go the way that it did in the end, and the tacked-on RTD-like "People will manage to forget anything alien!" (this time with more intentional mind-erasure) ending.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:40
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Bicyclops posted:I like those once in awhile in my Doctor Who, and I think it sort of worked here. Getting past history-erasing propaganda by thinking of the people who are no longer with us and are therefore a part of that history, instead of the more abstract flashbulb history moments. My guess is that the Whitehouse script got some editing to cobble things together into the three-parter. The more that I think about it, the more it would have been a decent episode without the 15 minute fakeout at the beginning we all knew was going to go the way that it did in the end, and the tacked-on RTD-like "People will manage to forget anything alien!" (this time with more intentional mind-erasure) ending. Yeah, I think you're right. Cutting (or at least shortening) the fakeout also would give the episode a bit more room to breathe and would make it feel less like we were rushing through the whole rest of the thing checking boxes as we went.
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Jun 6, 2017 17:09
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Someone mentioned it earlier but it seems a decent amount of people died during the occupation, and a good deal of them definitely woke from the dream in dissidents prison. Lot to just forget, even putting aside the ruined statues everywhere. But again, the bigger the consequences. the harder and dumber the reset.
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Jun 6, 2017 17:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X19LnmVoWyE In which the Doctor confronts an Ice Warrior and Bill meets a mysterious figure in a suit
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Jun 6, 2017 17:49
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The regeneration energy thing; Was the room Bill shot The Doctor in the same room he was broadcasting propaganda from? Because if so then all they needed for it to make sense was for one of the soldiers to say "And the feed is cut" immediately after he starts to "regenerate" before he reveals it was a fakeout for it to make some kind of sense. The room is wired for picture and sound, the doctor spewing regeneration energy would sell "the doctor was killed" to the monks if they were monitoring the room. Of course, if they know about regeneration then they'd also know that the doctor wasnt actually dead (even if Bill had actually shot him), but it makes a little more sense to me that way. Of course, he didnt then use the fact that the monks might think he was dead (or at least had a different face) in his plan at all, but I wonder if in an earlier draft it was a plot point that got cut or something.
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Jun 6, 2017 17:54
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Vinylshadow posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X19LnmVoWyE Gotta love that Ice Warrior helmet jiggling up and down inside its suit neck.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:06
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Hopefully the next few times we see London the area flattened to rubble by the pyramid is still there and we get to see people walking past it and just shrugging.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:20
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There's so much construction work going on in that bit of London, they really didn't think anyone would notice.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:23
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SiKboy posted:The regeneration energy thing; Was the room Bill shot The Doctor in the same room he was broadcasting propaganda from? Because if so then all they needed for it to make sense was for one of the soldiers to say "And the feed is cut" immediately after he starts to "regenerate" before he reveals it was a fakeout for it to make some kind of sense. The room is wired for picture and sound, the doctor spewing regeneration energy would sell "the doctor was killed" to the monks if they were monitoring the room. Of course, if they know about regeneration then they'd also know that the doctor wasnt actually dead (even if Bill had actually shot him), but it makes a little more sense to me that way. Of course, he didnt then use the fact that the monks might think he was dead (or at least had a different face) in his plan at all, but I wonder if in an earlier draft it was a plot point that got cut or something. At the end of the day, the regeneration fake out was entirely for the audience. Not much more to it than that.
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Jun 7, 2017 01:37
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Astroman posted:At the end of the day, the regeneration fake out was entirely for the audience. Not much more to it than that. The CGI guys probably needed to test if the regen button still works, for when Capaldi leaves.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:23
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Yknow up until the three parter, I felt the series had a strong leftist bent, and it wasn't just me, but the three parter doesn't fit that at all. They mention fake news and the Doctor makes fun of religion but still. And again, the Doctor himself was part of that fake news and spread propaganda, which I felt like the Doctor should not have done but apparently he can be responsible for death and misery if it results in a REALLY CLEVER TWIST SCENE. And it was his fault, remember: If you don't do what the doctor says, you're farm animal stupid! And he told you to turn your friends and family in!
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Jun 7, 2017 17:50
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I'll say my wife doesn't follow news about the show at all, and she thought he was going to regenerate, so it worked on someone at least.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:56
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Hemingway To Go! posted:If you don't do what the doctor says, you're farm animal stupid! And he told you to turn your friends and family in!  The whole thing was really just a gotcha that didn't make any sense and had no point. It almost would have been better if Bill had said "Why the hell did you do that?" and the Doctor answered "Well, let's just say that the monks needed to boost their ratings. Something for the previews.  "
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Jun 7, 2017 18:33
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I'm choosing to believe that the Doctor had already deprogrammed everyone working at those internment camps and that their real purpose was to keep everyone who knew the truth safe from the people who didn't. It's no more ludicrous than anything else in the episode.
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Jun 7, 2017 18:44
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I must have missed it but I assume there was some sort of technobabble as to why they couldn't just shoot the guy operating as a broadcaster like they did all the other monks they ran into?
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Jun 7, 2017 18:47
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Unless the labor camps were fake, I don't see how you could undo the monks and then leave them wondering why they were in a labor camp for no reason.
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Jun 7, 2017 18:52
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Cojawfee posted:Unless the labor camps were fake, I don't see how you could undo the monks and then leave them wondering why they were in a labor camp for no reason. Even if they were, people were literally murdered. Executions happened. Those people are dead and no one gives a poo poo. This is the worst reset button
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Jun 7, 2017 20:02
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this episode is cool because it isn't very good to begin with and thinking about it even for a second makes it seem much worse
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Jun 7, 2017 20:16
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It's one of many reasons the prison camps thing was too over the top. Just have everything be a more subtle form of control that doesn't involve jack-booted, uniformed soldiers. Then there aren't hordes of vans or uniforms or dead people, just a bunch of eerie statues and posters. It's still a stupid reset button, but it isn't quite as infuriating.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:23
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How many of those who withstood the monks reprogramming that survived are now traumatised for life? Since they didn't get their memories controlled the first time it's likely that they also didn't when the monks left so are now stuck babbling about the time aliens took over for six months while everyone thinks they are crazy.
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Jun 8, 2017 00:35
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Yes, but the important thing is that Bill didn't die. Happy ending!
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Jun 8, 2017 02:21
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Senor Tron posted:How many of those who withstood the monks reprogramming that survived are now traumatised for life? Since they didn't get their memories controlled the first time it's likely that they also didn't when the monks left so are now stuck babbling about the time aliens took over for six months while everyone thinks they are crazy. That's depressing. Welp, onto the next adventure in space and time!
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Jun 8, 2017 02:38
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Thousands of people world wide had good-paying positions with the Memory Police and thought they had job security for life. Then it was gone in an instant. MY COLUMN
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Jun 8, 2017 02:48
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It's funny, because Moffat spent an entire season, a really good season even, creating a big giant reset button that erased all the consequences faced by Earth during the RTD years, and now, when we get big dumb RTD style Earth stories, he just makes sure to reset the consequences right away. No fuss, no great explanation, just, eh, nobody remembers.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:33
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remusclaw posted:It's funny, because Moffat spent an entire season, a really good season even, creating a big giant reset button that erased all the consequences faced by Earth during the RTD years, and now, when we get big dumb RTD style Earth stories, he just makes sure to reset the consequences right away. No fuss, no great explanation, just, eh, nobody remembers. Yeah no one remembers why dad is dead or what happened to Jimmy down the street.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:39
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On the plus side, it did make me think about what would happen if the Monks pulled that consent from love stuff on the Daleks. Daleks send a squad of Daleks to the pyramid, the Monks destroy them. Monks: Consent Daleks send a larger squad of Daleks to the pyramid, the Monks destroy them. Monks: Consent Daleks send a battalion of Daleks to the pyramid, the Monks destroy them with some serious damage done. Monks: Consent Daleks send a fleet of Daleks to the pyramid, the Monks destroy them barely. Monks: Consent Daleks blow up the whole loving planet Sole Surviving Dalek: THE DALEKS ARE VICTORIOUS! THE DALEKS ARE THE TRUE SUPERIOR BEINGS!
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Jun 8, 2017 03:50
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Jerusalem posted:On the plus side, it did make me think about what would happen if the Monks pulled that consent from love stuff on the Daleks. This must be one of the challenges of writing major destructive/conquering villains for the series - how do they measure against Dalek perfection? If they're more dangerous than the Daleks, why haven't they been a major threat until now? If they're less dangerous, then how can they challenge The Doctor? And speaking of which, how can these time-manipulating monks measure against the Time Lords? Do they only exist now because the Time Lords have been mostly erased? Because if there had been Time Lords around, these guys would have been smashed so fast... And anther thing that this makes me wonder - are there any stories in which the Daleks start fighting the Sontarans?
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Jun 8, 2017 04:31
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The Monks aren't capable of time travel on any level. They're just good at making it look like they are. Remember: the Monks aren't good at anything but lying and predicting. They just happen to be VERY good at lying and predicting.
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Jun 8, 2017 05:49
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Cleretic posted:The Monks aren't capable of time travel on any level. They're just good at making it look like they are. Lying, predicting, and remote eye surgery.
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Jun 8, 2017 06:22
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CommonShore posted:And another thing that this makes me wonder - are there any stories in which the Daleks start fighting the Sontarans? Nothing televised I can recall, there was a recent War Doctor audio from Big Finish which covers the Sontarans trying to force their way into the Time War while the Time Lords and Daleks try to ignore them. On TV in the first revival appearance of the Sontarans they do complain about being left out of the Time War.
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Jun 8, 2017 07:11
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SiKboy posted:The regeneration energy thing; Was the room Bill shot The Doctor in the same room he was broadcasting propaganda from? Because if so then all they needed for it to make sense was for one of the soldiers to say "And the feed is cut" immediately after he starts to "regenerate" before he reveals it was a fakeout for it to make some kind of sense. The room is wired for picture and sound, the doctor spewing regeneration energy would sell "the doctor was killed" to the monks if they were monitoring the room. Of course, if they know about regeneration then they'd also know that the doctor wasnt actually dead (even if Bill had actually shot him), but it makes a little more sense to me that way. Of course, he didnt then use the fact that the monks might think he was dead (or at least had a different face) in his plan at all, but I wonder if in an earlier draft it was a plot point that got cut or something. I don't think we can be sure that episode even had more than one draft
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Jun 8, 2017 10:21
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Jerusalem posted:Nothing televised I can recall, there was a recent War Doctor audio from Big Finish which covers the Sontarans trying to force their way into the Time War while the Time Lords and Daleks try to ignore them. On TV in the first revival appearance of the Sontarans they do complain about being left out of the Time War. There's Daleks and Sontarans in Dark Eyes 4 as well.
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Jun 8, 2017 12:51
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Belated Lie of the Land gifs - click to view                 
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Jun 8, 2017 13:08
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I finally listened to Zagreus over the last couple of days and while it was kind of a bloated mess with some interesting underlying ideas my main take away has been my brain filling out quieter moments of the day making up dumb new verses to the rhyme like Zagreus at the restaurant Zagreus knows not what he'd want Zagreus hems and haws a lot And never ends up eating
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Jun 8, 2017 13:21
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Well that was a waste of an episode. And in no way needed two episodes of setup just to get to a starting point that would've been infinitely better if we had no foreknowledge as to what's going on. Instead we already know why history's suddenly altered and why The Doctor's in the Monk's care putting out propaganda. Anyone know what happened to the nice family down the street? Why do I have a rifle and a uniform that says "Memory Police" on the arm patch?  Seriously, how more unsubtle can you get about history potentially being altered than an entire organization specifically dedicated to "The True History"? 
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Jun 8, 2017 14:05
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I suddenly had the wish earlier that the War Doctor had been played by Don Warrington. Of course that would have been a bit problematic as 'the regeneration I'd rather forget'.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:11
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The_Doctor posted:I suddenly had the wish earlier that the War Doctor had been played by Don Warrington. "I have waded through the Rising Damp of the Time War..."
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Jun 8, 2017 14:25
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Happy birthday to Colin Baker!
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Jun 8, 2017 15:31
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CobiWann posted:Happy birthday to Colin Baker! And we all know what that means! Even more of him! Big Finish has a today-only sale on; focused pretty heavily on his non-6th Doctor roles.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:51
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Box of Bunnies posted:I finally listened to Zagreus over the last couple of days and while it was kind of a bloated mess with some interesting underlying ideas my main take away has been my brain filling out quieter moments of the day making up dumb new verses to the rhyme like Nice to hear someone's as lame as me Forktoss posted:Steven Moffat writes a script
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Jun 8, 2017 16:04
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