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Caufman posted:Replaying F:NV last, I was amazed again by how fiction could be used to tell (interactively, too) a fantastical story that is meaningful to people living at the time. What was lost along the road to Fallout 4? Different studio. New Vegas was Obsidian, staffed with great writers. 4 was Bethesda, staffed with Bethesda's writers
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Jun 8, 2017 03:24
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This I know, but surely the knowledge that your story should matter is something that can be transferred from developer to developer as it can from person to person, right? No? I see. Now I understand why some wonder why God damns us all.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:36
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Caufman posted:This I know, but surely the knowledge that your story should matter is something that can be transferred from developer to developer as it can from person to person, right? Holy poo poo dude really
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Jun 8, 2017 03:40
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The desire to tell a good story does not always correlate with the ability to tell a good story.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:43
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Hell yea finally found the "D&D" campaign with a pack of dice.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:46
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flatluigi posted:Holy poo poo dude really Tone seems appropriate to me.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:50
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Internet Wizard posted:The desire to tell a good story does not always correlate with the ability to tell a good story. I guess they did improve between 3 and 4. The Commonwealth was more relatable than the Capitol Wasteland. 3's setting tried silliness, and only sometimes landed. 4's setting had more heart.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:56
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Sorry, we all know the authority on Fallout is clearly MisterBibs,
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Jun 8, 2017 03:58
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It's just cos Bethesda are a bunch of charlatans
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Jun 8, 2017 04:06
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Recently picked up Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove on the Switch, and holy poo poo there's a lot of little stuff that I forgot I love in this game, plus a bunch of added stuff in the update.
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Jun 8, 2017 04:27
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Wait what time is the duck useful?
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Jun 8, 2017 07:35
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Olive Garden tonight! posted:Wait what time is the duck useful? I think one major boss fight has an attack that hits the top pixel of your helm, but you can duck it?
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Jun 8, 2017 08:37
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I'm just thinking of during King Knight's stage when you encounter the first spell-caster. He's standing just high enough to clip you if you're standing normally, but if you duck, you're just short enough to dodge the fireball.
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Jun 8, 2017 08:38
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Internet Wizard posted:The desire to tell a good story does not always correlate with the ability to tell a good story. Yeah, you can tell from Fallout 4 that if Bethesda took anything from New Vegas in their effort to improve their own product, it was that they should be telling a story people can get engaged with. Unfortunately they're even worse at that than they are at writing a plot that's an excuse to get you to fight dragons or robots or whatever, because while New Vegas' main plotline aided the general game around it Fallout 4's damaged it in more ways than you can easily count.
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Jun 8, 2017 09:33
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It's about posting the little things. I'm actually curious as to what brought 4's story/play up and down. I thought that by showing more attention to the towns and factions and encounters, 4 made me care about the main questline better than 3 did. I also did not see the twist about the PC's son before hand, and that was an interesting conflict to set up if Nick or Nora was not into the Institute's ways.
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Jun 8, 2017 09:44
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Little things about games: horizon zero dawn and breath of the wild have such similar structure But horizon loving NAILS the shrine equivalents, while I skipped through all the repeated dialogue in Zelda I think horizon may be the better Zelda equivalent despite my rabid love of BOTW
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Jun 8, 2017 09:57
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Caufman posted:It's about posting the little things. I'm actually curious as to what brought 4's story/play up and down. I thought that by showing more attention to the towns and factions and encounters, 4 made me care about the main questline better than 3 did. I won't post much on it because you're right, but in brief: You know how the big thing everyone likes about Bethesda's games is that they're so open that you can play any character you want, and it's never an incorrect interpretation or direction to take the character? Now, remember how your Fallout 4 protagonist is explicitly a straight married parent looking for your child, a fact that you get railroaded into expressing directly more times than I could count (and I actually was counting) in a dialog system that's even more restrictive than modern Bioware? In happier topics, I've been really happy that Persona 5 has nailed the balance between difficulty and usability that Megaten's struggled with for a while now, giving you enough control over your kit to build it to your liking without ruining the feeling of compromise that's so important to the difficulty (SMTIV, for example, made getting an optimal build way too easy and so made the game too easy). But the biggest thing is that they offer three choices on game over that cater to different levels of how badly you just lost: -Restart at the start of the battle you just lost (for 'okay I hosed that up, I'll try again') -Restart at the last safe room (for 'I wasn't prepared for that, let me plan this out') -Go back to the title screen (for 'I need to reload a whole other save' or 'my rear end just got kicked so hard I need to take a breather')
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Jun 8, 2017 10:11
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Cleretic posted:I won't post much on it because you're right, but in brief: You know how the big thing everyone likes about Bethesda's games is that they're so open that you can play any character you want, and it's never an incorrect interpretation or direction to take the character? Ah, I see more clearly what you mean. Like 4 had less freedom for the player to decide (in the game or in their interpretation) the defining characteristics of the PC. That's true. I did find that 4's parent in search of their biological son was more compellingly done than 3's child in search of their biological dad. But 4 made more explicit assumptions about your player character, tru
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Jun 8, 2017 10:18
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4 doesn't let you play as gay Doctor Who!!!
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Jun 8, 2017 10:33
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:4 doesn't let you play as gay Doctor Who!!! 
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Jun 8, 2017 10:36
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Surely that's just until the mod community steps in, right?
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Jun 8, 2017 10:45
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:4 doesn't let you play as gay Doctor Who!!! Very funny solid joke 10/10
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Jun 8, 2017 10:46
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To balance out the complaining: I love how towards the end of NieR:A there's a room in the tower that's 1 for 1 the library in the first Nier. Even has the little side office and trophy room, and you still can't climb those goddamn ladders. When Devola and Popola show up to fight you get a slightly altered Song of the Ancients, with a cool 8bit version for the hacking. The pod sass is always fantastic, as is boar drifting. There's a vendor in one of the DLC arenas that talks like a certain someone. She learned that that's how a merchant should talk from 'a relic of the ancient past'  Oh yeah and the soundtrack is all very very good.
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Jun 8, 2017 10:48
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Just beat Persona 5 last night, and I wasn't expecting to laugh my rear end off during the ending cutscene. You're rolling down the highway in a van Makoto's driving, having a good time before you're sent back to your hometown. Haru says something along the lines of "Hey, my friend's having a problem, let's help her." Yusuke wants absolutely none of this and says in the most deadpan tone "I'm getting out" as he opens the car door. Everyone freaks out as Haru screams "We're on the highway!" My sides went into orbit because I've done the exact same thing in the exact same tone of voice so many times riding in my friends' cars.
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Jun 8, 2017 10:51
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:4 doesn't let you play as gay Doctor Who!!! I think two posts between me making complaints about Fallout 4 (that are far from only held by me) until that one post I made two years ago comes back is a new record. At this rate I'm gonna have to start pre-empting it.
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Jun 8, 2017 11:01
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At least moan about it in the right loving thread.
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Jun 8, 2017 11:02
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Guy Mann posted:One of the really cool things about it is that it's a game that is relatively short to play through from beginning to end but is built to be played over and over... ...in a desperate attempt to survive.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:02
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'Hey we have uh this Dinosaur Jungle level, think you could whip us up a song for it?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_CJ2KKlEA[
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Jun 8, 2017 13:22
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I liked that Fallout 4 defined a bit about my character and their motivations before the start of the game, because it helped actually provide a reason for the character to go on that journey. Fallout 3 tried to leave a lot up to the player but then so much of your character's story was either really bland to let as much as possible fit in, or potentially flat out didn't make sense.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:33
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I wouldn't have minded if Fallout 4's defining of my character didn't make him incredibly and brutally boring. New Vegas had the perfect blend of "this guy shot me in the head, I'm going to beat his rear end" motivation to do the plot, but didn't feel urgent like finding a missing family member, so you had an excuse to blunder into any empty building you want without taking away from the main quest. I know "New Vegas is better than X" has been pretty beat to death already but man they really did do a bang up job for the most part.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:02
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Caufman posted:This I know, but surely the knowledge that your story should matter is something that can be transferred from developer to developer as it can from person to person, right? 4 outsold New Vegas so it obviously doesn't matter as much to most people. Also New Vegas had the benefit of getting the gameplay engine and assets of a complete game to work with from day one and build off of while Bethesda had to start from scratch making all of the gameplay systems each time.
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Jun 8, 2017 16:09
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Guy Mann posted:4 outsold New Vegas so it obviously doesn't matter as much to most people. Selling more doesn't necessarily mean it was a better game or better liked by those who bought it.
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Jun 8, 2017 17:05
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New Vegas also had the strength of being written by dudes that had written and understood Fallout. Even considering that it's weird that Bethesda would put such a familial tie into a game considering the origin story of the player character in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:03
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Schneider Inside Her posted:New Vegas also had the strength of being written by dudes that had written and understood Fallout. Even considering that it's weird that Bethesda would put such a familial tie into a game considering the origin story of the player character in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Maybe they just wanted to try something different for once?
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Jun 8, 2017 18:16
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It tried to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, and did so in the laziest story way possible. Also some lovely minecraft/tower defense parts.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:52
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Just Offscreen posted:It tried to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, and did so in the laziest story way possible. Also some lovely minecraft/tower defense parts. That poo poo made me stop playing and never have any desire to pick it back up. It was just some bolted on garbage to make gameplay longer. I like the concept of building settlements, but that is not the way to do it for a game like that.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:10
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If you want to make the settlement stuff more enjoyable then I very much recommend the Sim Settlements mod. It's an attempt to make the settlements more like Sim City where you just plop down RCI lots and the game automatically assigns settlers to lots. It's a bit more complex than I'm making it sound, but I'm finding it making the settlement stuff a lot more fun than it was before (in that I'm actually interacting with the settlements, I ignored them almost completely before this mod).
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Jun 8, 2017 19:21
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I was pretty hyped for Fallout 4 and I don't know if it lived up to that hype for me - but I did enjoy it and put like over 100+ hours into and I still really would like to finish it at least once. It also has the best dog.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:32
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Bethesda aren't really under a lot of pressure to change, is the thing. They've got this market. It's basically them, Bioware, and Obsidian sometimes doing big Western-style RPGs. People aren't rushing out with Fallout clones trying to steal their thunder. So even if they look at New Vegas and say, "Hey, these guys have some good ideas," they can also say, "Well, we do things our way, and they do things their way, and we're selling more copies so gently caress off."
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Jun 8, 2017 19:53
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The stupid crafting and building in F4 ruined it. I will never play it again.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:54
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